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#52
February 5th 04, 12:29 AM
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In article , Dave Heil
trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (N2EY) writes: To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still are a lot of "US" involved in that. For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days? In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago. Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it is written up in QST. The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or never considered it in the first place. I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago. At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve my country doing just that. None of that involved morse code. ...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since. A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in the decades after you had your "big-time". Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way. Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s (rather small efforts). I'm sure Department of State was able to put some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a life in active military duty. Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for over a half century. Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun. Tens of thousands still do so. Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you can prove. The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers. Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt... The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940. That's 64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago. Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point? EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism. Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP. The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed morsemanship skills. It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio. Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present. NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such skills went byebye some time ago. Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during their corporate existance to copy morse code. The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications without touching a PLMRS transceiver. Wow! Really?!? No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same? No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS comms? They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship? Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need. Your mileage on the newsgroup rageometer will, of course, vary. Foaming at the mouth is normal, sarly dave, but don't forget to brush after every meal. I see. "Broadband" means "broad bandwidth". You could have knocked me over with a feather when I read your words. So to your way of thinking on "broadness", a morse communication at 5 wpm on 10 KHz could be considered "broadband"? No. I'd say that 5 words per minute on 10 KHz could possibly be interfering with USN submarine alert frequencies. Those are on VLF. It's not nice to interfere with boomers or sharks, big daddy dave. Such wouldn't mean a "Riley" knocking on your door, but some very serious "attitude" folks carrying heavy artillery. Now show us some REAL innovations and inventions done by hams over the last 50 years or so concerning RADIO. Other than Dan Tayloe that I've already mentioned several times. Or just continue to make nasty in here on the UnBelievers who don't worship at the shrine of St. Hiram. LHA / WMD |
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#53
February 5th 04, 01:55 AM
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Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Dave Heil trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (N2EY) writes: To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still are a lot of "US" involved in that. For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days? In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago. There's plenty of BIG-TIME HF communications, Leonard. You simply aren't involved in it any more than you are amateur radio and it didn't happen fifty years ago. Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it is written up in QST. Sure, Leonard. Compared with what is available to you, it is plenty big-time, especially if done right--big towers, big antennas, all the power the law allows. I don't have to read about it, I'm able to participate. The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or never considered it in the first place. I really don't care. Morse is alive and well in amateur radio. I don't use it as my sole operating mode anyway. I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago. At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve my country doing just that. None of that involved morse code. ...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since. A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in the decades after you had your "big-time". Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way. I think you must have your facts in disarray. Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s (rather small efforts). The Air Force never used much two way CW. I'm sure Department of State was able to put some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a life in active military duty. I never used any surplus military gear at all, Lumpy. It was commercial gear all the way. Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for over a half century. Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun. Tens of thousands still do so. Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you can prove. That isn't correct at all, Leonard. My statement is pure fact and I have the log books to back it up. There are plenty of other sources including logs in existence. The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers. PROOF exists in my logs and the logs of countless others. Would you like some hundreds of thousands of QSOs to peruse? Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt... The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940. That's 64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago. Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point? EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism. Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP. Okay, the military continued to use morse long after the introduction of the equipement you mentioned. This demonstrates EVOLUTION in what way? The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed morsemanship skills. It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio. I'd love the opportunity to sit you down in front of my Orion for a few hours... Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present. NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such skills went byebye some time ago. Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during their corporate existance to copy morse code. Vibroplex didn't make all those paddles and bugs to copy Baudot. I frequently use Baudot though but I don't have equipment manufactured by Teletype or Kleinschmidt. Radio amateurs still use morse regularly. What the commercials do worries me not. I'm enjoying amateur radio as an avocation, not as a business. Dave K8MN Dave K8MN |
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#54
February 5th 04, 07:47 AM
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In article , Dave Heil
foams at the mouth and writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , Dave Heil trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (N2EY) writes: To US who were in the big-time radio communications on HF of a half century ago, that did not involve morse code. There were and still are a lot of "US" involved in that. For some of US who've had more recent experience than yours, morse was involved. For many of us who are actually radio amateurs and who are participants in big-time radio HF communications today, morse code is still involved. What are you doing in big-time HF these days? In big-time HF, not a heckuva lot. There's very little left of the BIG TIME HF communications efforts of a half century ago. There's plenty of BIG-TIME HF communications, Leonard. You simply aren't involved in it any more than you are amateur radio and it didn't happen fifty years ago. So, you are saying the Army Command and Administrative Network "didn't exist fifty years ago?" There was no such thing?!? Mais non. ACAN existed very much, very big, running more traffic every month through one station than the fabled NTS could ever "work" in a year. You weren't there. You couldn't know. But, you pretend you do. Pretense is what you are. Try a tranquilizer. You won't be as tense. Armature radio deeecksing is "big time?" Nope. Not a drop in a bit bucket compared to the communications carriers of not too long ago. You'd LOVE to think it was "big time" but that is only how it is written up in QST. Sure, Leonard. Compared with what is available to you, it is plenty big-time, especially if done right--big towers, big antennas, all the power the law allows. I don't have to read about it, I'm able to participate. My, my, back to the old puerile comparison of genitalia in radio? Snarly dave, you don't know squat what "I've got available to me." All you got left is HOBBY activities. Long past the "pioneering of HF" period in hamdom. The only radio service still requiring morse code for communications is amatoor radio. All the other radio services either gave up on it or never considered it in the first place. I really don't care. Morse is alive and well in amateur radio. I don't use it as my sole operating mode anyway. So, if you "really don't care," why are you foaming at the mouth so much, making nasty to all those that don't kiss your asterisk? Okay, you love and adore morse code. So, why must everyone ALSO love and adore morse code and keep the morse code test forever and ever in amateur regulations? Who really cares WHAT you use, snarly dave? I was IN worldwide communications on HF over a half century ago. At the time I liked it fine...even felt honored to be able to serve my country doing just that. None of that involved morse code. ...and because you didn't use morse, no one used it at the time or since. A number of us have used morse professionally and as radio amateurs in the decades after you had your "big-time". Nope, snarly dave, the Army gave up on morse code for fixed-point to fixed-point long-distance communications back in 1948, before my service time. The Navy's long-haul fixed comms were the same way. I think you must have your facts in disarray. Tsk, tsk, tsk. No. Try swinging YOUR disarray away from some imaginary time. Your front-to-back ratio is terrible. Sweetums, I WORKED IN that Big Leagues of military comms in the Pacific back then and know several who were there at the same time, including one civilian. It was REAL. All kinds of documentation on it. Why do you keep on DENYING it so much? Are you afraid your imaginary beliefs will be exposed? Same for the USAF although all the branches maintained some morse code proficiency requirements and circuits until the early 70s (rather small efforts). The Air Force never used much two way CW. What? You were some comms chief in the USAF "in charge" of Globecom or something? I'm sure Department of State was able to put some of that obsolete military equipment to good use after it had a life in active military duty. I never used any surplus military gear at all, Lumpy. It was commercial gear all the way. I said Department of State, wonder ham. I really don't care. State never had any network close to the military's and still doen't. Access to the DSN now may be argued as being "part of it" but only you and your kind of morsemen would try to stretch things that far. Tens of thousands of skilled radio operators worldwide have used worldwide communications effectively for decades without ever once having to use or know morse code. They have done so for over a half century. Tens of thousands of skilled radio ops worldwide *have* used morse effectively for worldwide communications after your day in the sun. Tens of thousands still do so. Sorry, snarly dave, that's just your Article of Faith. You WANT to think that is true but it's far in the past and never the numbers you can prove. That isn't correct at all, Leonard. My statement is pure fact and I have the log books to back it up. There are plenty of other sources including logs in existence. You've got "logs" all over, snarly dave. No one really cares what kind of "P-51 time" you noted in. :-) [ old aviation joke...snarly dave wouldn't understand ] The PROOF is seeing what radio circuits use what on HF...even when HF was a mainstay of communications carriers. PROOF exists in my logs and the logs of countless others. Would you like some hundreds of thousands of QSOs to peruse? Digitize them and send them out if that makes you happy. Now, how do you authenticate all of those? Do we take you as supremely "honest?" As much as anyone takes spammers "honesty." Don't let me stop your rationale invention. Improve the state of the rationale art, innovate, improvise, adapt... The U.S. military did not require any morsemanship to use the very first handheld transceivers (on HF) for communications in 1940. That's 64 years ago. Neither did they require any morsemanship to use the first backpack radio (on VHF) in 1943. That's 61 years ago. Yet the military continued to use morse. What's your point? EVOLUTION, you throwback to failed Darwinism. Do you need a DayGlo billboard to outline it? WAKE UP. Okay, the military continued to use morse long after the introduction of the equipement you mentioned. This demonstrates EVOLUTION in what way? "Equipement?" :-) The U.S. military does not use any morse code for communications now. It quit doing so several years ago. Many several years in fact. No communications carrier service in the USA uses any morse code. Railroads don't use it. Shipping on land doesn't use it. Businesses don't use it, even if they are making-selling morse code devices. Tens of thousands of olde-tyme hammes use morse code. Amateurs. Are they thinking they are "advancing the state of the radio art" by doing so? Are they "pioneering the airways" as was done in the 20s and 30s? Or don't they know any better way to communicate? The state of the art of radio communications long since bypassed morsemanship skills. It doesn't take rocket science intellect to use, operate ANY radio. I'd love the opportunity to sit you down in front of my Orion for a few hours... Oh wow! Snarly dave is going to overwhem me with complicated knobs and switches and instructions on a box of electronics! Snarly dave, you important, electronically impotent sot, ALL electronics and radio systems ARE complicated, complex, and must be some kind of arcane magic to you. I know because I've seen the same self-importancy demonstrated before, even once about a system I helped design and develop. :-) Yeah, snarly dave, I'll "sit down in front of your orion." If and only if you sit down in front of any radio system I've used in the last decade. Can you afford air fare and lodging to Pasadena? I can show you some of the JPL Deep Space Network...after the Rover missions, please, they are a bit busy right now. You can't sit down in the avionics compartments of an F-18 or F-16 but you can get an idea, maybe a glimmering of what those are about...except you'll quickly get snowed even with a Have Quick. I can get you into KNBC and the master control in Burbank; they have tours for that sort of thing, no problem. You've never "ridden" a modern TV control board, have you? I can get a Novice license holder to show you how it all works...Tom won two Emmys for TV direction, different years. All of that involves RADIO, snarly dave. None of it is amateur. It is all very professional/commercial. You will get snowed in mentally worse than the northeast has ever gotten. But...you ARE TESTED FOR MORSE CODE AND AN EXTRA! You can afford an expensive radio toy to pursue your "radiosport." And, of course, tell everyone about and go nyah, nyah, "you ain't as good as dave!" If YOU had to test for morse code then everyone else MUST. It's the law. That law can never be changed, right? Morsemanship needs only repetitive Pavlovian training to become a wetware modem...provided the basic aptitude is present. NO modern communications carrier uses any morse code. Such skills went byebye some time ago. Teletype Corporation didn't make a half million teleprinters during their corporate existance to copy morse code. Vibroplex didn't make all those paddles and bugs to copy Baudot. I frequently use Baudot though but I don't have equipment manufactured by Teletype or Kleinschmidt. Radio amateurs still use morse regularly. What the commercials do worries me not. I'm enjoying amateur radio as an avocation, not as a business. Most of Teletype Corporation's hundreds of thousands of Teletypes didn't use "Baudot" as in the old 5-level code. They used the 8-level ASCII. The half-millionth Teletype was on display in gold plating at many electronics industry trade shows in the 1980s. Too bad you couldn't have seen one. But, you are an amateur and not in the business. It would make your Vibroplex just vibrate all over! :-) You are "enjoying amateur radio" so that you can make like a big shot (with the O stretched vertically) and snarl at those who don't care to take any code test...or those who worked in BIG HF comms before your time...or those who won't kneel down and kiss your asterisk. Or all of the above. Nice not talking to you, snarly dave. Have fun "on the bands." All below 30 MHz, that is, in tiny little bands below 10 meters. LHA / WMD |
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#55
February 5th 04, 05:31 PM
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Len Over 21 wrote: In article , Dave Heil trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (N2EY) writes: The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications without touching a PLMRS transceiver. Wow! Really?!? No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same? No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS comms? Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham bands*! They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship? Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether? Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need. How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no operational skills needed by the nation? Your mileage on the newsgroup rageometer will, of course, vary. Foaming at the mouth is normal, sarly dave, but don't forget to brush after every meal. I see. "Broadband" means "broad bandwidth". You could have knocked me over with a feather when I read your words. So to your way of thinking on "broadness", a morse communication at 5 wpm on 10 KHz could be considered "broadband"? No. I'd say that 5 words per minute on 10 KHz could possibly be interfering with USN submarine alert frequencies. Those are on VLF. It's not nice to interfere with boomers or sharks, big daddy dave. Such wouldn't mean a "Riley" knocking on your door, but some very serious "attitude" folks carrying heavy artillery. I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located. That you didn't care to answer the question is noted. We'll just accept your definition of "broadband" as, well....broadband. Now show us some REAL innovations and inventions done by hams over the last 50 years or so concerning RADIO. Other than Dan Tayloe that I've already mentioned several times. No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about it. It can't have happened. Nothing you have no knowledge of can possibly have happened. You are the ONLY PROFESSIONAL in radio. *snicker* Or just continue to make nasty in here on the UnBelievers who don't worship at the shrine of St. Hiram. Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard. You have naught to do with amateur radio. You're among the unwashed. Several decades of declared interest in amateur radio + over seven years of windy, condescending posts here + four years of inaction on your "Extra right out of the box" = Leonard H. Anderson, potential radio amateur :-) Dave K8MN |
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#56
February 5th 04, 08:00 PM
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In article , Dave Heil confused in the
east...and north...and south writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , Dave Heil trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (N2EY) writes: The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications without touching a PLMRS transceiver. Wow! Really?!? No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same? No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS comms? Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham bands*! Who knows what lurks in your four neurons, snarly dave? [da shadow do?] They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship? Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether? No, nitrous oxide. I have to take an anaesthetic when I go in here to read all this "expert radio nowledge stuf." One needs to dull the senses down to the extra level... Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need. How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no operational skills needed by the nation? Why are you asking? You are an Extra. You know Everything because you are Qualified by a federal agency, complete with pretty little certificate (suitable for framing)! I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located. Did you download that firmware fact from Ten-Tec too? No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about it. Awwww...now you are acting all peevish. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard. Tsk, tsk, tsk, pope dave the furst become a religious sellout? The Church doesn't issue ham licenses, snarly dave. The FDA grades ham. You have naught to do with amateur radio. I haven't gotten around to tuning in the naught, snarly dave. Nothing to listen to in the naught. You're among the unwashed. Untrue! I just downloaded an extra shower from Ten-Tec's very firm ware download section. Was inexpensive economy model but was complete with 100 gallons of hot water. Soap extra. Took a long time to download. I would need DSL for the most expensive model's download. Is that the firm ware download you got, snarly dave? Come clean, now... Several decades of declared interest in amateur radio + over seven years of windy, condescending posts here + four years of inaction on your "Extra right out of the box" = Leonard H. Anderson, potential radio amateur :-) Didn't you forget my claim that I was going to invent anti-gravity? I'm still working on that one, but something's holding me down... Now sit down in front of your orion, snarly dave. Amaze yourself. We are all amazed at you. Of you. On you. Whatever... LHA / WMD |
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#57
February 5th 04, 11:32 PM
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Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: Carl will be very upset you put *this* idea in people minds too! ;^) Carl has expressed his disdain for the concept of skilled radio operators here. Look up some of his posts under his old call (WA6VSE) and phrases such as "electronic paintball wars" "stomp into the dust" "wetware modem" "emulate a modem" "better modes and modulations".... I wonder where Carl is lately? Probably tied up with work and work related travel. Haven't heard from him since he had the change of heart regarding the testing. Everyone's allowed to change their minds, Mike. Even when they say "never".... Here's a prediction for you: Hopefully BPL will not completely trash the HF spectrum - if that garbage takes over, all bets are off. Assuming it is defeated or at least contained: There will be proposals and more proposals. FCC will someday do another NPRM, there will be a lot of comments, lots of arguing, and then eventually FCC will do another R&O which will consist mostly of what's easiest for FCC to implement. At the rate they're going, late 2005 before the rules change. (Yes, I have't forgotten The Pool) They'll dump Element 1, simplify the entry level test even more, reshuffle some other regs, etc., regardless of what the majority wants, what arguments are given pro and con, etc. Free upgrades? Maybe. We'll see a surge of new hams and a surge of upgrades - for a while. But not much will actually change, because they're not addressing the real problems like CC&Rs, lack of publicity, lifestyle changes, etc. You watch and see if I'm right. Meanwhile some of us will have been having a lot of fun with ham radio. I know I have, and will continue to do so. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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#58
February 6th 04, 01:33 AM
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N2EY wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ... N2EY wrote: In article , Mike Coslo writes: Carl will be very upset you put *this* idea in people minds too! ;^) Carl has expressed his disdain for the concept of skilled radio operators here. Look up some of his posts under his old call (WA6VSE) and phrases such as "electronic paintball wars" "stomp into the dust" "wetware modem" "emulate a modem" "better modes and modulations".... I wonder where Carl is lately? Probably tied up with work and work related travel. Haven't heard from him since he had the change of heart regarding the testing. Everyone's allowed to change their minds, Mike. Even when they say "never".... Oh yes! But they have to face the consequenses of changing their mind. But there is some pretty severe damage to credibility when the change involves basic principles. Here's a prediction for you: Hopefully BPL will not completely trash the HF spectrum - if that garbage takes over, all bets are off. Assuming it is defeated or at least contained: There will be proposals and more proposals. FCC will someday do another NPRM, there will be a lot of comments, lots of arguing, and then eventually FCC will do another R&O which will consist mostly of what's easiest for FCC to implement. At the rate they're going, late 2005 before the rules change. (Yes, I have't forgotten The Pool) They'll dump Element 1, simplify the entry level test even more, reshuffle some other regs, etc., regardless of what the majority wants, what argumentsare given pro and con, etc. Free upgrades? Maybe. We'll see a surge of new hams and a surge of upgrades - for a while. But not much will actually change, because they're not addressing the real problems like CC&Rs, lack of publicity, lifestyle changes, etc. You watch and see if I'm right. I wouldn't bet against that! Sounds within a order of mag with my prediction. Meanwhile some of us will have been having a lot of fun with ham radio. I know I have, and will continue to do so. Me too. Glad I didn't listen to those that told me that "Morse code is going to go away any day now." ~Three extra years on HF and counting....... - Mike KB3EIA |
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#59
February 6th 04, 06:10 AM
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Len Over 21 wrote:
In article , Dave Heil confused in the east...and north...and south writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , Dave Heil trying to go for the jugular but getting only a juggler writes: Len Over 21 wrote: In article , (N2EY) writes: The hundreds of thousands of amateur radio ops work DX, engage in radiosport, check into nets or engage in public service communications without touching a PLMRS transceiver. Wow! Really?!? No hams work in a business that has a Public Land Mobile Radio Services radio? No hams work on railroads or in heavy trucking or vehicle road service trucks? No hams in construction of large buildings or engaged in HVAC or plumbing maintenance of same? No hams are policemen or firemen or paramedics? No hams are in the broadcast industry using remote links controlled through PLMRS comms? Oh, I see your confusion. You thought I meant *other than on the ham bands*! Who knows what lurks in your four neurons, snarly dave? [da shadow do?] N2EY: "Besides, here's a simple, plain fact: No matter what job, educational level, employer, or government/military service that a radio amateur has, if said radio amateur opposes Mr. Anderson's views, he/she will be the target of Mr. Anderson's insults, ridicule, name-calling, factual errors, ethnic slurs, excessive emoticons and general infantile behavior." They are all on HF engaging in "radiosport" and net checking to advance the state of the art of radio and morsemanship? Did I write "all" or did you just gather it from the ether? No, nitrous oxide. In your case, nitrous obnoxide. I have to take an anaesthetic when I go in here to read all this "expert radio nowledge stuf." One needs to dull the senses down to the extra level... Just more civil debate on the elimination of morse testing, Leonid? Now all that "radiosport" and "net checking" is fun and recreational and enjoyed by many but it is hardly any sort of technical advancement or honing skills useful in case of national need. How do you know much about it--by having someone you know tell you of it? By reading about it on the web? By browsing through the pages of QST at your local library? Were you under the impression that hams are mandated to participate in technical advancement? Are there no operational skills needed by the nation? Why are you asking? In the expectation of receiving a straight answer. How do you know that radiosport and public service work in amateur radio are fun? Who told you? You are an Extra. You know Everything because you are Qualified by a federal agency, complete with pretty little certificate (suitable for framing)! You're right about one part: I am an Amateur Extra, but I now about what hams do because I am a part of it, an active participant. I don't get my knowledge of amateur radio on a second-hand basis. I know in which part of the spectrum 10 KHz is located. Did you download that firmware fact from Ten-Tec too? No, Leonard. Ten-Tec has firmware upgrades available. Would you like the definition of firmware again? No radio amateur anywhere has done anything if you haven't known about it. Awwww...now you are acting all peevish. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Worship? You aren't even baptised as a licensed ham, Leonard. Tsk, tsk, tsk, pope dave the furst become a religious sellout? The Church doesn't issue ham licenses, snarly dave. That's strange. Weren't you the fellow who brought up a particular church? You seemed to have snipped that portion. The FDA grades ham. ....leaving you to handle the degrading. Several decades of declared interest in amateur radio + over seven years of windy, condescending posts here + four years of inaction on your "Extra right out of the box" = Leonard H. Anderson, potential radio amateur :-) Didn't you forget my claim that I was going to invent anti-gravity? Haven't heard of that one. Don't worry too much though. It can't make you look any more foolish than your "Extra right out of the box" claim. I'm still working on that one, but something's holding me down... That'd seem to be a necessity. Hot air has a tendency to rise. Now sit down in front of your orion, snarly dave. Amaze yourself. I do that quite frequently, Leonid. Dave K8MN |
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#60
February 6th 04, 12:07 PM
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In article , Mike Coslo
writes: Everyone's allowed to change their minds, Mike. Even when they say "never".... Oh yes! But they have to face the consequenses of changing their mind. But there is some pretty severe damage to credibility when the change involves basic principles. Yep. Fact is, I support the "NewNovice" concept, except for it being a nocodetest license. But I strongly oppose the free upgrades. Here's a prediction for you: Hopefully BPL will not completely trash the HF spectrum - if that garbage takes over, all bets are off. Assuming it is defeated or at least contained: There will be proposals and more proposals. FCC will someday do another NPRM, there will be a lot of comments, lots of arguing, and then eventually FCC will do another R&O which will consist mostly of what's easiest for FCC to implement. At the rate they're going, late 2005 before the rules change. (Yes, I have't forgotten The Pool) They'll dump Element 1, simplify the entry level test even more, reshuffle some other regs, etc., regardless of what the majority wants, what arguments are given pro and con, etc. Free upgrades? Maybe. We'll see a surge of new hams and a surge of upgrades - for a while. But not much will actually change, because they're not addressing the real problems like CC&Rs, lack of publicity, lifestyle changes, etc. You watch and see if I'm right. I wouldn't bet against that! Sounds within a order of mag with my prediction. They're not addressing the real problems. Meanwhile some of us will have been having a lot of fun with ham radio. I know I have, and will continue to do so. Me too. Glad I didn't listen to those that told me that "Morse code is going to go away any day now." ~Three extra years on HF and counting....... ARRL prez W5JBP sez (see "Amateur Radio Newsline" interview) he doesn't expect FCC to finally act until late 2005. I would not be surprised if that were the case. 5 years on amateur HF/MF for you by then. 38 for me. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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