N2EY wrote:

Yep. But there's also the aspect of "self-training", where the person with the
question tries to find the information on their own *before* asking.

For that I definitely blame the Internet.

In days gone by when one had to go to the library for information, two
things were different:

1) The world in general wasn't made aware of your ignorance.

2) By having to go through a book you usually picked up some other pieces
of information.

In today's age, the Internet is touted as the grand source of all
information with instant response.

Hence the huge number of really ignorant questions on USENET and mailing
lists that show the questioner has obviously never bothered to read a book
or manual because anything you want to know can be found through the
Internet just by asking.

What's even worse is these people don't bother to do a search of archives or
FAQs to see if the question has already been asked, which it generally has.

This mode of operation is by no means limited to amateur radio; it appears
to an epidemic of major proportions.

Unfortunately, I can think of no solution to the problem in general, nor
one specific to amateur radio other than to just accept the situation for
what it is and get on with life. Bitching about it is just a waste of time.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

In article , writes:

N2EY wrote:

Yep. But there's also the aspect of "self-training", where the person with
the
question tries to find the information on their own *before* asking.

For that I definitely blame the Internet.

In days gone by when one had to go to the library for information, two
things were different:

1) The world in general wasn't made aware of your ignorance.

2) By having to go through a book you usually picked up some other pieces
of information.

Agree on both counts!

In today's age, the Internet is touted as the grand source of all
information with instant response.

Hence the huge number of really ignorant questions on USENET and mailing
lists that show the questioner has obviously never bothered to read a book
or manual because anything you want to know can be found through the
Internet just by asking.

And here I thought it was just me getting ornery!

What's even worse is these people don't bother to do a search of archives or
FAQs to see if the question has already been asked, which it generally has.

EXACTLY!

I first noticed this on rec.radio.amateur.antenna. Despite lots of websites
dealing with the G5RV and T2FD antennas, it seemed that about every other
thread was about either one or the other of those two. Worse, the *same*
questions would be asked over and over.

This mode of operation is by no means limited to amateur radio; it appears
to an epidemic of major proportions.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, I can think of no solution to the problem in general, nor
one specific to amateur radio other than to just accept the situation for
what it is and get on with life.

On the one hand, folks like me *want* to Elmer the newcomers, but on the other,
we don't want to spend all our time answering the same questions over and over
and simultaneously reinforcing the behavior of "learned helplessness" where the
person doesn't even *try* to figure out or research the answer.

One thing I've done is to respond more to questions where it's obvious that the

person has at least tried to find the answer themselves, and is now stumped on
a particular point. Another approach is to answer in URLs.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
In article , writes:


N2EY wrote:


Yep. But there's also the aspect of "self-training", where the person with

the

question tries to find the information on their own *before* asking.

For that I definitely blame the Internet.

In days gone by when one had to go to the library for information, two
things were different:

1) The world in general wasn't made aware of your ignorance.

2) By having to go through a book you usually picked up some other pieces
of information.


Agree on both counts!

In today's age, the Internet is touted as the grand source of all
information with instant response.

Hence the huge number of really ignorant questions on USENET and mailing
lists that show the questioner has obviously never bothered to read a book
or manual because anything you want to know can be found through the
Internet just by asking.


And here I thought it was just me getting ornery!

What's even worse is these people don't bother to do a search of archives or
FAQs to see if the question has already been asked, which it generally has.


EXACTLY!

I first noticed this on rec.radio.amateur.antenna. Despite lots of websites
dealing with the G5RV and T2FD antennas, it seemed that about every other
thread was about either one or the other of those two. Worse, the *same*
questions would be asked over and over.

This mode of operation is by no means limited to amateur radio; it appears
to an epidemic of major proportions.


Agreed.


ahh r.r.a.a! Now there is a interesting place! There are some
interesting characters there. Anyone that posts a "simple" question
there does so at their own risk. Threads undergo an instant
transformation from a question to unintelligible arguments between the
hoi-polloi on some minute point in the post. The experts that are
bothered by us dummies can rest secure though, because we usually go
away completely befuddled. They almost had me talked out of the idea of
ever getting on the air. Not enough antenna height, not enough space,
not a good enough ground, not a good enough tuner.... And that was just
the stuff I could understand! There really should be two separate
newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, and
rec.radio.amateur.I.just.want.to.put.up.something. that.will.get.a.signal.out.




Unfortunately, I can think of no solution to the problem in general, nor
one specific to amateur radio other than to just accept the situation for
what it is and get on with life.


On the one hand, folks like me *want* to Elmer the newcomers, but on the other,
we don't want to spend all our time answering the same questions over and over
and simultaneously reinforcing the behavior of "learned helplessness" where the
person doesn't even *try* to figure out or research the answer.

I dunno, Jim. I suspect that teachers DO spend a lot of time answering
the same questions, and I suspect it was that way long before the
internet or liberals or whatever our favorite blame target is.

In the end, you can find out if the person wants spoon fed by seeing
what their second question is, no the first. And very importantly, how
they respond to the reference lists you send them.


- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

ahh r.r.a.a! Now there is a interesting place! There are some
interesting characters there. Anyone that posts a "simple" question
there does so at their own risk. Threads undergo an instant
transformation from a question to unintelligible arguments between the
hoi-polloi on some minute point in the post. The experts that are
bothered by us dummies can rest secure though, because we usually go
away completely befuddled. They almost had me talked out of the idea of
ever getting on the air. Not enough antenna height, not enough space,
not a good enough ground, not a good enough tuner.... And that was just
the stuff I could understand! There really should be two separate
newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.antenna, and
rec.radio.amateur.I.just.want.to.put.up.something. that.will.get.a.signal.out.

Yet one more example of how it IS possible to have "TOO MUCH"
education.

I deal with similar types in Nursing...Those "special" few who
have BS or Masters in Nursing who have spent no more time at the
bedside than was required to get through thier clinical time in
school, yet now THEY are the ones who "specify" what constitutes good
Nursing practice.

And I think I know that other newsgroup!

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article ,
(Steve Robeson, K4CAP) writes:

I deal with similar types in Nursing...Those "special" few who
have BS or Masters in Nursing who have spent no more time at the
bedside than was required to get through thier clinical time in
school, yet now THEY are the ones who "specify" what constitutes good
Nursing practice.

Hello? This newsgroup is about RADIO, specifically amateur radio.

It isn't about nursing or flying or the USMC school of helicopter
maintenance.

You and Larrah ought to get together in a Superiors Club to show
everyone how it is done based on how good you both are... :-)

LHA / WMD

In article , writes:

N2EY wrote:

Yep. But there's also the aspect of "self-training", where the person with
the
question tries to find the information on their own *before* asking.

For that I definitely blame the Internet.

In days gone by when one had to go to the library for information, two
things were different:

1) The world in general wasn't made aware of your ignorance.

2) By having to go through a book you usually picked up some other pieces
of information.

In today's age, the Internet is touted as the grand source of all
information with instant response.

It IS a grand source of information...but takes a few seconds or
minutes to respond. :-)

The Internet is a SUPERB source of information, everything from
simple through complex in technology, from primers in electronics
to vast archives of application notes from leading electronics
manufacturers. I use it regularly.

The home office room my wife and I share has 39 lineal feet of
bookshelving, books packed in literally cover to cover. Good
reference material collected over half a century of time, mostly
mine. Given the cost of textbooks today, collecting all of that
would be prohibitive now.

Hence the huge number of really ignorant questions on USENET and mailing
lists that show the questioner has obviously never bothered to read a book
or manual because anything you want to know can be found through the
Internet just by asking.

Classrooms have always been full of the ignorant. That's why
classrooms exist. :-)

In the days of the old ARPANET (the "grandfather" of the Internet
and "father" of USENET) there were a number of ignorant users.
[been there, done that, got the T-shirts and TTY printouts]

What's even worse is these people don't bother to do a search of archives or
FAQs to see if the question has already been asked, which it generally has.

In olde-tyme days of classrooms, many students never used a
library. So, what else is new?

This mode of operation is by no means limited to amateur radio; it appears
to an epidemic of major proportions.

Shall we call the Center for Disease Control about this "epidemic?"

Unfortunately, I can think of no solution to the problem in general, nor
one specific to amateur radio other than to just accept the situation for
what it is and get on with life. Bitching about it is just a waste of time.

You can always take Corrective Action.

One way is to recognize human beans and not carry on a bitch
session such as the above.

LHA / WMD