"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...



Where did society get the mistaken impression that sex is bad, but
violence is OK?

Nuns in Catholic grammar school routinely used violence on the kids, but
would
sure be upset about anything vaguely about sex....

Is that really what we want to teach our children?

I wouldn't want to subject kids to the crap I had to endure in said
school.


When you get right down to it, except for a few shameful and widely
publicized exceptions, todays kids suffer from too little rather than too
much
physical punishment. Worst form of abuse for todays kids is to let'em grow
up with no self control or discipline. That was true in earlier generations,
too.
Look at Bill Clinton and, for that matter, the younger days of our current
President. Sometimes they grow out of it and sometimes they don't.

HWB

Leo wrote:
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:39:19 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:


Dunno! I don't allow kids to watch the nasty violent stuff either. I'm
talking about stuff like FMJ.As good as the movie was, it was plenty
disturbing. Three Stooges are fine, as well as the other tame stuff.
Normal kids are fully capable of figuring out that when Moe hits curly
on the head with a pipe wrench, and it makes a sound like a hammer
hitting a frying pan, or when Bugs bunny blows up daffy duck, and
Daffy's bill is then upside down and on the back of his head, that's all
just fun.


Sounds safe enough!

!!WARNING - OFF TOPIC MATERIAL FOLLOWS!!

Hmmm - Mike, if you have a high speed internet connection. check out
the following newsgroups:

alt.binaries.multimedia.3-stooges
alt.binaries.multimedia.cartoons.looneytunes

You can download complete episodes there, which should amuse the
little ones (and you too!) for quite a while. New ones are uploaded to
these groups every day.

And, unlike this group, there are only a total of 6 stooges to be
found!

Thanks, Leo! I'm checkin it out now.

- Mike KB3EIA -

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 21:38:55 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:

snip

Thanks, Leo! I'm checkin it out now.

Cool. You'll need to locate a copy of WinRAR (a decompression program
similar to ZIP) and perhaps a few others as you go along. Just give
me a holler if you need any help.

For your reference, some info on the various file types you will
encounter, and what to do with 'em, is he

http://www.warezfaq.com/file_types.htm


- Mike KB3EIA -

73, Leo

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Where did society get the mistaken impression that sex is bad, but
violence is OK?

Nuns in Catholic grammar school routinely used violence on the kids,

"Robert Casey, you bold brazen article, how dare you talk like that!"

but would sure be upset about anything vaguely about sex....

In my experience, such things would make them violent. In fact almost
anything could make an IHM nun violent. Bunch of nutcases, actually.

Is that really what we want to teach our children?

No!

I wouldn't want to subject kids to the crap I had to endure in said
school.

Nor I!

What all that violence really taught kids was that violence was the
preferred method to solve problems and get your way. As if.

The irony is that they were responsible for the creation of millions
of ex-catholics.

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Ms Jackson is free to expose
herself under appropriate circumstances. If she wants to do a dance
routine and have Justin Timberlake tear off part of her outfit. That is
also okay - tho she might want to use a less weird presentation.

There are appropriate television venues for that, such as HBO, Cinemax,

etc. Late night TV kind of stuff.

But not on the super bowl halftime show. Not on Teletubbies or Barney
or Blues Clues or fishing shows. Those just aren't the places for that
sort of thing. Even my favorite, the History channel, has some shows
that deal with sex and show nudity.

I gotta get cable...

They put them on late at night when
the kids are in bed, and any viewing is strictly voluntary. No one harmed.

I agree 100%, Mike, but I'd put it this way:

The big problem isn't the content but whether it's expected or not when the
viewer tunes in. Shows like "Sex in the City" and "Coupling" pretty much
tell you what to expect by the name of the show. Other shows have warnings,
ratings and writeups in the program guides.

The problem with the "wardrobe malfunction" was that nobody expected it except
Ms. Jackson. Yet she will not incur any fine or penalty. That's just wrong.

Everything in it's time and place, and the superbowl isn't the time or
place IMO.

Agreed - particularly without any warning.

Some may say this whole thing ahs nothing to do with amateur radio policy, but
the exact opposite is true. The big problem with that "wardrobe malfunction"
was its unexpected nature. Since amateur radio is unscheduled, crosses time
zones and no licensee owns a frequency, the standards of all amateur on-air
activity have to be "G-rated".

The NFL has been trying to pander to a different audience the last few
years. I remember when a sb halftime show was put on by "Up With
People", of all things.

Well, it's just a different sort of "up"...

I hope they realize that the "edgy" stuff was a miserable failure for
the XFL.

Who? ;-)

73 de Jim, N2EY

In article , "Harold Burton"
writes:

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...



Where did society get the mistaken impression that sex is bad, but
violence is OK?

Nuns in Catholic grammar school routinely used violence on the kids, but
would
sure be upset about anything vaguely about sex....

Is that really what we want to teach our children?

I wouldn't want to subject kids to the crap I had to endure in said
school.


When you get right down to it, except for a few shameful and widely
publicized exceptions, todays kids suffer from too little rather than too
much physical punishment.

I disagree! Beating children simply means the beater can't think of
a better way to deal with the kid.

It also teaches the kid at a very primeval level that violence is a
legitimate method of getting what you want from others.

Worst form of abuse for todays kids is to let'em grow
up with no self control or discipline. That was true in earlier generations,
too.

I agree 100%, except that I'd call it "neglect" rather than "abuse". And in
some cases neglect is worse because it tells the kid he's not worth bothering
with.

Look at Bill Clinton and, for that matter, the younger days of our current
President.

Not just the younger days, either.

Sometimes they grow out of it and sometimes they don't.

Exactly!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Leo wrote:

Actually, Mike, I don't disagree with you at all - what she did was
quite inappropriate for the venue. But it ain't really that big a
deal....

If it is a big deal for a segment of the population, it is a big deal
for the network, the FCC and MTV.

Read the article that I referenced, if you have time - it presents an
interesting perspective on what tends to constitute "obscenity". Sex
bad, violence good - you know. And, as always, Jack Nicholson's
comment is priceless

I've not read or heard anything about obsenity being the issue. The
halftime show was quite inappropriate. Everyone is making the noise
about Janet Jackson but the lyrics used by P. Diddy, Nelly and Kid Rock
were offensive. Kid Rock's defacing of the American Flag and his use of
it as a poncho were offensive.

Example - I watched a bit of "Full Metal Jacket" on TBS a while back.
While all of the profanity and sexual references had been 'sanitized',
most of the gore and violence remained (it was funny, though, to see
Sgt. Hartman saying "Darn" and "Heck" and such, even though his lips
clearly had other intentions...).

Where did society get the mistaken impression that sex is bad, but
violence is OK? Is that really what we want to teach our children?

Songs about the use of women as sexual objects, about multiple casual
sexual partners, about the glorification of drug use, drinking and
criminal behavior in a public performance on prime-time TV are among the
things I'd rather children didn't see or hear because they cater to the
lowest, base side of humanity.

Dave K8MN

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:


Ms Jackson is free to expose
herself under appropriate circumstances. If she wants to do a dance
routine and have Justin Timberlake tear off part of her outfit. That is
also okay - tho she might want to use a less weird presentation.

There are appropriate television venues for that, such as HBO, Cinemax,


etc. Late night TV kind of stuff.

But not on the super bowl halftime show. Not on Teletubbies or Barney
or Blues Clues or fishing shows. Those just aren't the places for that
sort of thing. Even my favorite, the History channel, has some shows
that deal with sex and show nudity.


I gotta get cable...

Even then, it isn't smarmy stuff. It's mostly educational, with an
erotic undertone. It's the sort of thing that even if a youngster were
to watch it, they wouldn't be affected negatively

They put them on late at night when
the kids are in bed, and any viewing is strictly voluntary. No one harmed.


I agree 100%, Mike, but I'd put it this way:

The big problem isn't the content but whether it's expected or not when the
viewer tunes in. Shows like "Sex in the City" and "Coupling" pretty much
tell you what to expect by the name of the show. Other shows have warnings,
ratings and writeups in the program guides.

Good point.

The problem with the "wardrobe malfunction" was that nobody expected it except
Ms. Jackson. Yet she will not incur any fine or penalty. That's just wrong.

I'll bet she doesn't get on Prime-time TV without a tape delay, tho'!

Everything in it's time and place, and the superbowl isn't the time or
place IMO.


Agreed - particularly without any warning.

Some may say this whole thing ahs nothing to do with amateur radio policy, but
the exact opposite is true. The big problem with that "wardrobe malfunction"
was its unexpected nature. Since amateur radio is unscheduled, crosses time
zones and no licensee owns a frequency, the standards of all amateur on-air
activity have to be "G-rated".

Agreed! Why some people have a problem understanding that is beyond me.
Everything in moderation and in it's time and place. If Janet wants to
go around with parts hanging out of her clothes, she is welcome to.
(IMO) As long as as it is in the proper place. Otherwise, keep it clean.

- Mike KB3EIA -

N2EY wrote:

In article , "Harold Burton"
writes:


"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...



Where did society get the mistaken impression that sex is bad, but
violence is OK?


Nuns in Catholic grammar school routinely used violence on the kids, but
would
sure be upset about anything vaguely about sex....


Is that really what we want to teach our children?


I wouldn't want to subject kids to the crap I had to endure in said
school.


When you get right down to it, except for a few shameful and widely
publicized exceptions, todays kids suffer from too little rather than too
much physical punishment.


I disagree! Beating children simply means the beater can't think of
a better way to deal with the kid.

It also teaches the kid at a very primeval level that violence is a
legitimate method of getting what you want from others.

And the argument is null anyway. If beating your kid worked, you would
only have to do it once or twice.

In fact, I was recently enlightened to the fact that (I hope this
doesn't invoke Godwin's law!) Saddam Hussein, Joseph Stalin, and Adolf
Hitler have one thing in common. They recieved regular beatings as children.


Worst form of abuse for todays kids is to let'em grow
up with no self control or discipline. That was true in earlier generations,
too.


I agree 100%, except that I'd call it "neglect" rather than "abuse". And in
some cases neglect is worse because it tells the kid he's not worth bothering
with.

And discipline doesn't have to be beatings! Sit a kid on the couch for a
couple hours with no entertainment, and they'll come around. Sounds
simple and a little stupid, but it works. I got "wailed" on occasion as
a kid, and while it hurt, once it was over, big deal. All it taught me
was it was a good idea to not get caught, and if I could delay the
punishment until the punisher cooled down, I wasn't as likely to get
hit. That last part is telling in itself.

Look at Bill Clinton and, for that matter, the younger days of our current
President.


Not just the younger days, either.


Sometimes they grow out of it and sometimes they don't.


Exactly!

And sometimes, despite getting beat, they still turn out bad. Kind of
makes you wonder what does work! ;^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Leo wrote:

Actually, Mike, I don't disagree with you at all - what she did was
quite inappropriate for the venue. But it ain't really that big a
deal....

If it is a big deal for a segment of the population, it is a big deal
for the network, the FCC and MTV.

If we accept "It ain't that big a deal", we'll get more and more of it. Oh
wait, that's how we got where we are now.

Read the article that I referenced, if you have time - it presents an
interesting perspective on what tends to constitute "obscenity". Sex
bad, violence good - you know. And, as always, Jack Nicholson's
comment is priceless

There is no reason for us to look to show business personnel for role models.
But too many of us do.

I've not read or heard anything about obsenity being the issue. The
halftime show was quite inappropriate. Everyone is making the noise
about Janet Jackson but the lyrics used by P. Diddy, Nelly and Kid Rock
were offensive. Kid Rock's defacing of the American Flag and his use of
it as a poncho were offensive.

I say those things were obscene. Far more so than what Ms. Jackson did.

Example - I watched a bit of "Full Metal Jacket" on TBS a while back.
While all of the profanity and sexual references had been 'sanitized',
most of the gore and violence remained (it was funny, though, to see
Sgt. Hartman saying "Darn" and "Heck" and such, even though his lips
clearly had other intentions...).

Where did society get the mistaken impression that sex is bad, but
violence is OK? Is that really what we want to teach our children?

It's what the media wants to teach us.

Songs about the use of women as sexual objects, about multiple casual
sexual partners, about the glorification of drug use, drinking and
criminal behavior in a public performance on prime-time TV are among the
things I'd rather children didn't see or hear because they cater to the
lowest, base side of humanity.

I agree 100%.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"I'm tired of all this sex on the television - I mean, I keep falling off!" -
Monty Python