No one commented on my proposal that I made earlier in the week. Perhaps
because it was hidden away in another thread (which I changed), or
perhaps it was stupid beyond belief.

I'll post it again in hopes of some feedback.


A few thoughts first:

There is going to be a change, of that there is no doubt. I still think
it is going to take a longer rather than shorter time. I see no reason
to change my prediction in the pool.

The present system is not "broken" It doesn't need fixed. It is what it
is, and is just one of those things that grew up over the years. When
Morse code was ascendant, there was a need for multiple license classes,
since Morse is one of those skills that takes time to hone, and it made
sense then to have a rank beginner level, and work up from there.


This is the system we have however, and we tinker with it at our own
peril. We do not want to remove privileges, nor do we want to increase
privileges without any testing. The reduction issue seems to have been
proven by the Incentive licensing problem in the 60's, and giving away
free upgrades will only serve to anger people in the other direction.

It is a foolish system that angers people on purpose. You don't anger
those who are your friends, you anger your enemies.

To have a Morse code test for entry into HF is not going to happen, and
to have a Morse code test for Amateur Extra doesn't make sense, given
that the Extra is the highest level license, and Morse code was at one
time required for the lowest level, Novice. There is a big disconnect there.

I therefore propose a system that is quite like what we have now.
Technician, General, and Amateur Extra. Privileges the same.

The two orphan classes, Tech plus and Advanced, will remain where they
are, with privileges staying the same.

After the changeover, the new testing regimen will be:

Technician: heavy on RF safety, Light on electronics theory. Some
questions related to the VHF and UHF where the tech's will largely
operate The technician is considered a preparatory license, and will
give a good base of how to get on the air without frying yourself in the
process.

General: General test will scale back on the RF safety, and replace it
with more theory. Antenna questions and operating procedures. The never
entertaining band edge questions will get a few more questions.


Extra: more in depth treatment of theory. No band edge or safety
questions, at this point, if you don't know safety, you've already fried
your mind. questions demonstrating knowledge of different modes.


The only controversial part of my proposal is that there would be a 2
year wait between General and Extra. I could be persuaded to drop that
pretty easily!


Bands and sub bands:

At this point, the bands will remain the same. Bandplan adjustments
will be made. Novice sections will remain, and will be considered a
"practice ground" for those who want to learn Morse code. note: this may
actually be a way to kick start Morse code use.


So there you have it. Here is a plan that shouldn't p**s anyone off
that isn't *already* mad about something, and as far as I can see, it's
major disadvantage is that it isn't glamorous or exciting.

Is it the "ideal" plan?* Heck no! But it accomplishes moving past the
Morse code issue with a minimum of disruption, and has the side benefit
that we know it will work.

Comments?

- Mike KB3EIA -


*My version of the ideal plan in post Morse code era, would be a one
class system, with the requirements being somewhere between General and
Extra as practiced now.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ...
No one commented on my proposal that I made earlier in the week. Perhaps
because it was hidden away in another thread (which I changed), or
perhaps it was stupid beyond belief.

I'll post it again in hopes of some feedback.


A few thoughts first:

There is going to be a change, of that there is no doubt. I still think
it is going to take a longer rather than shorter time. I see no reason
to change my prediction in the pool.

The present system is not "broken" It doesn't need fixed. It is what it
is, and is just one of those things that grew up over the years. When
Morse code was ascendant, there was a need for multiple license classes,
since Morse is one of those skills that takes time to hone, and it made
sense then to have a rank beginner level, and work up from there.


This is the system we have however, and we tinker with it at our own
peril. We do not want to remove privileges, nor do we want to increase
privileges without any testing. The reduction issue seems to have been
proven by the Incentive licensing problem in the 60's, and giving away
free upgrades will only serve to anger people in the other direction.

It is a foolish system that angers people on purpose. You don't anger
those who are your friends, you anger your enemies.

To have a Morse code test for entry into HF is not going to happen, and
to have a Morse code test for Amateur Extra doesn't make sense, given
that the Extra is the highest level license, and Morse code was at one
time required for the lowest level, Novice. There is a big disconnect
there.

I therefore propose a system that is quite like what we have now.
Technician, General, and Amateur Extra. Privileges the same.

The two orphan classes, Tech plus and Advanced, will remain where they
are, with privileges staying the same.

After the changeover, the new testing regimen will be:

Technician: heavy on RF safety, Light on electronics theory. Some
questions related to the VHF and UHF where the tech's will largely
operate The technician is considered a preparatory license, and will
give a good base of how to get on the air without frying yourself in the
process.

General: General test will scale back on the RF safety, and replace it
with more theory. Antenna questions and operating procedures. The never
entertaining band edge questions will get a few more questions.


Extra: more in depth treatment of theory. No band edge or safety
questions, at this point, if you don't know safety, you've already fried
your mind. questions demonstrating knowledge of different modes.


The only controversial part of my proposal is that there would be a 2
year wait between General and Extra. I could be persuaded to drop that
pretty easily!


Bands and sub bands:

At this point, the bands will remain the same. Bandplan adjustments
will be made. Novice sections will remain, and will be considered a
"practice ground" for those who want to learn Morse code. note: this may
actually be a way to kick start Morse code use.


So there you have it. Here is a plan that shouldn't p**s anyone off
that isn't *already* mad about something, and as far as I can see, it's
major disadvantage is that it isn't glamorous or exciting.

Is it the "ideal" plan?* Heck no! But it accomplishes moving past the
Morse code issue with a minimum of disruption, and has the side benefit
that we know it will work.

Comments?

- Mike KB3EIA -


*My version of the ideal plan in post Morse code era, would be a one
class system, with the requirements being somewhere between General and
Extra as practiced now.



How is this?

1. Remove ALL names of ALL licences.

2. Call everyone licensed a 'Amateur Radio Operator'.

And make any modes, other than SSB phone require a 'indorsement' to operate.

Simple and end of discussion.

The league and the FCC are going to do what ever they want, all we can do
is pay attention and send in your comments when the time comes.

Dan/W4NTI

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

The present system is not "broken" It doesn't need fixed. It is what it

is, and is just one of those things that grew up over the years.

I think it needs a bit of tweaking, but not a fullscale makeover as some seem
to think.

When
Morse code was ascendant, there was a need for multiple license classes,
since Morse is one of those skills that takes time to hone, and it made
sense then to have a rank beginner level, and work up from there.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Morse code was ascendant" - can you explain a
bit more?

I would say that *any* knowledge or skill requires time to develop, whether
it's theory knowledge,
practical radio knowhow or Morse skills. Thus, there will still be a need for
several license classes.
I think there should be more levels than three, but FCC's action in 1999 makes
it clear that's
probably a lost cause. So three classes it is:

One that's easy to get so that people can get started without having to learn
everything in one go
One that gives full privileges and requires some serious knowledge
One intermediate step so that it's not a huge jump.

This is the system we have however, and we tinker with it at our own
peril. We do not want to remove privileges, nor do we want to increase
privileges without any testing. The reduction issue seems to have been
proven by the Incentive licensing problem in the 60's, and giving away
free upgrades will only serve to anger people in the other direction.

I agree 100%! Indeed, there is still criticism of the IL plan 36 years after it
was put
in place, and in many places from people who did not become hams until long
after
it was in effect!

It is a foolish system that angers people on purpose. You don't anger
those who are your friends, you anger your enemies.

Better yet, you render your enemies ineffective. But most of all you don't
anger your
friends unnecessarily.

To have a Morse code test for entry into HF is not going to happen, and

to have a Morse code test for Amateur Extra doesn't make sense, given
that the Extra is the highest level license, and Morse code was at one
time required for the lowest level, Novice. There is a big disconnect there.

I disagree!

Given the popularity of Morse code in amateur radio, it makes no sense to not
have it be
a part of the testing for a license. Imagine if there were no questions on SSB
in the tests -
would that make sense?

The Morse Code test has been portrayed as the boogieman, as if it is the source
of all
of amateur radio's problems. Yet there is no proof of these claims.

I therefore propose a system that is quite like what we have now.
Technician, General, and Amateur Extra. Privileges the same.

This means all Techs have VHF/UHF only?

The two orphan classes, Tech plus and Advanced, will remain where they
are, with privileges staying the same.

What about Novice?

After the changeover, the new testing regimen will be:

Technician: heavy on RF safety, Light on electronics theory. Some
questions related to the VHF and UHF where the tech's will largely
operate The technician is considered a preparatory license, and will
give a good base of how to get on the air without frying yourself in the
process.

Perhaps, but what that does is to funnel newcomers into VHF/UHF rather than HF.
And
since VHF/UHF gear tends to be harder to homebrew and more complex than HF
equipment,
it tends to funnel newcomers to manufactured equipment. Also, since there is
relatively little
use of Morse Code for casual operating on VHF/UHF, it tends to funnel newcomers
to FM
voice operation.

General: General test will scale back on the RF safety, and replace it
with more theory. Antenna questions and operating procedures. The never
entertaining band edge questions will get a few more questions.

Needs to have some serious HF centric stuff, though.

Extra: more in depth treatment of theory. No band edge or safety
questions, at this point, if you don't know safety, you've already fried
your mind. questions demonstrating knowledge of different modes.

The only controversial part of my proposal is that there would be a 2
year wait between General and Extra. I could be persuaded to drop that
pretty easily!

I'd say the experience requirements should be included.

Bands and sub bands:

At this point, the bands will remain the same. Bandplan adjustments
will be made. Novice sections will remain, and will be considered a
"practice ground" for those who want to learn Morse code. note: this may
actually be a way to kick start Morse code use.

I don't see the need for that. Better to open up some of the lower part of the
bands for newcomers to use Morse.

The natural tendency is for Morse to be at the bottom of the band, data in the
middle, and 'phone at the top. Rather than fight that trend, the newcomer
segments should reinforce it.

The Novice subbands were originally put in the middle of their bands in a
misguided effort to keep them from straying outside the band edges. Since
Novices were originally required to use crystal control, this made little sense
even in 1951.

So there you have it. Here is a plan that shouldn't p**s anyone off
that isn't *already* mad about something, and as far as I can see, it's
major disadvantage is that it isn't glamorous or exciting.

Is it the "ideal" plan?* Heck no! But it accomplishes moving past the
Morse code issue with a minimum of disruption, and has the side benefit
that we know it will work.

Comments?

I agree that massive changes and giveaways are a bad idea.

However, I think that one of the problems today is that the entry-level license
is too VHF/UHF/voice/applicane operator-centric.
The entry level license should offer a wide selection of bands and modes,
rather than what we have now where newcomers get all of VHF/UHF but no HF.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...

However, I think that one of the problems today is that the entry-level
license
is too VHF/UHF/voice/applicane operator-centric.
The entry level license should offer a wide selection of bands and modes,
rather than what we have now where newcomers get all of VHF/UHF but no HF.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Newcomers with any gumption can have some HF if they choose to pass the
code. Tech study guide and test does include some very basic questions on
HF propagation, procedures, rules, etc. Unfortunately too many instructors
ignore the HF side of things and don't bother to give much encouragement to
go after the code so then the students end up on VHF/UHF only. My
instructor, many moons ago, really emphasized going for the "complete" Tech
license (Novice written + Tech written + code). I'm glad he did.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee D. Flint wrote:
"N2EY" wrote in message
...

However, I think that one of the problems today is that the entry-level

license

is too VHF/UHF/voice/applicane operator-centric.
The entry level license should offer a wide selection of bands and modes,
rather than what we have now where newcomers get all of VHF/UHF but no HF.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Newcomers with any gumption can have some HF if they choose to pass the
code.

Indeed!


Tech study guide and test does include some very basic questions on
HF propagation, procedures, rules, etc. Unfortunately too many instructors
ignore the HF side of things and don't bother to give much encouragement to
go after the code so then the students end up on VHF/UHF only. My
instructor, many moons ago, really emphasized going for the "complete" Tech
license (Novice written + Tech written + code). I'm glad he did.


Although there isn't a tech plus any more, if I were to teach a class, I
would leave no doubt that I expected the students to go on beyond the
Technician license, and would probably even have a little time devoted
to trying out Morse code to see what would happen. But even for the new
licenses, if Morse code goes by the wayside, I'd include a little bit of
the General information to try to whet the student's appetites for one
of the advanced licenses.

Question for the group:

Is learning more a bad thing or something?

- mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo writes:

Question for the group:

Is learning more a bad thing or something?

For amateur radio in the US of A?

All that is needed is hard work, discipline, and constant practice at
morse code. That is all that is needed.

Such will demonstrate to the amateur community your sincerety,
commitment and dedication to olde-tyme hamme tradition.

That, and total personal Belief that the ARRL is god of all radio,
knows all, etc., and never does wrong (even when it does).

We now return you to the noise level of Total Unquestioning Belief
in the amateur radio standards and practices of the 1920s.

LHA / WMD

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message y.com...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...

However, I think that one of the problems today is that the entry-level
license
is too VHF/UHF/voice/applicane operator-centric.
The entry level license should offer a wide selection of bands and modes,
rather than what we have now where newcomers get all of VHF/UHF but no HF.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Newcomers with any gumption can have some HF if they choose to pass the
code.

Sorry, Dee, but our resident Extra expert, TAFKA Rev. Jim, says that a
code exam is a disincentive to CW use on HF.

I just wonder what took him so long to recognize that fact as the
disincentive has been in place since 1912, and he has vehemently
disagreed with his new found philosophy for the past decade.

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Newcomers with any gumption can have some HF if they choose to pass the
code.

Hoops. Jump through the hoops like good little doggies. Arf, arf.

As a newcomer to HF 51 years ago, I got on HF without needing one bit
of morse code knowledge, skill, or anything else.

HF propagation hasn't changed since then. Solar cycles are still cycling.

The only difference is that hams have solid-state toys now instead of
glass, metal, and vacuum active devices. Some still insist on ON-OFF
keying of their carriers, even with sophisticated radios that can do much
more.

Tech study guide and test does include some very basic questions on
HF propagation, procedures, rules, etc. Unfortunately too many instructors
ignore the HF side of things and don't bother to give much encouragement to
go after the code so then the students end up on VHF/UHF only.

52 years ago I had good instructors at Fort Monmouth. Spent seven
months there before being assigned to the 71st Sig Svc Bn in Tokyo.
Only time us students had a code key was a one-afternoon hands-on
class that had two-tube MOPA HF transmitters...to learn how basic HF
technology was...and, in ham radio, still exists over a half century later.
The code key was needed solely for "turning on transmitter's emission."

None of the students had to use any morse code for any purpose later.
In Tokyo, army station ADA had 42 transmitters ranging in RF power
output from 1 to 40 KW. Absolutely no on-off keying CW used then,
wasn't used in 1978 when the HF facility was disbanded and returned to
the Japanese.

My
instructor, many moons ago, really emphasized going for the "complete" Tech
license (Novice written + Tech written + code). I'm glad he did.

Wow, yeah, full hoop set. Good for you.

Now, if someone invents a time machine, you can hop back to 1953 and
serve your country doing "radio" just like they did back then. Except the
VHF, UHF, and microwave stuff, of course.

LHA / WMD

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Newcomers with any gumption can have some HF if they choose to pass the
code.

Hoops. Jump through the hoops like good little doggies. Arf, arf.

You seem to have a problem passing exams required of others. No matter
and certainly no loss.

As a newcomer to HF 51 years ago, I got on HF without needing one bit
of morse code knowledge, skill, or anything else.

When and if you pass an amateur exam, you can be a newcomer to amateur
radio. Right now, if it is HF you want, you'll still have to climb that
5 wpm mountain.

HF propagation hasn't changed since then. Solar cycles are still cycling.

That's right. I've enjoyed those cycles immensely.

The only difference is that hams have solid-state toys now instead of
glass, metal, and vacuum active devices. Some still insist on ON-OFF
keying of their carriers, even with sophisticated radios that can do much
more.

My solid state toy drives a pair of vacuum active devices. I'll use
whichever mode I desire as a radio amateur. You may do as you can.

I generally choose "on-off" keying rather than the more abrupt "ON-OFF".

Dave K8MN

N2EY wrote:
In article , Mike Coslo writes:


The present system is not "broken" It doesn't need fixed. It is what it


is, and is just one of those things that grew up over the years.


I think it needs a bit of tweaking, but not a fullscale makeover as some seem
to think.

Agreed! Most proposals I have seen have been either too radical or too
complicated.


When
Morse code was ascendant, there was a need for multiple license classes,
since Morse is one of those skills that takes time to hone, and it made
sense then to have a rank beginner level, and work up from there.


I'm not sure what you mean by "Morse code was ascendant" - can you explain a
bit more?

At one time, if you were going to be a Ham, you were almost certain to
be using Morse CW as a major part of your Operating activities. There
was a time when the two major alternatives were AM or CW.


I would say that *any* knowledge or skill requires time to develop, whether
it's theory knowledge,
practical radio knowhow or Morse skills. Thus, there will still be a need for
several license classes.
I think there should be more levels than three, but FCC's action in 1999 makes
it clear that's
probably a lost cause. So three classes it is:

One that's easy to get so that people can get started without having to learn
everything in one go
One that gives full privileges and requires some serious knowledge
One intermediate step so that it's not a huge jump.

This is the system we have however, and we tinker with it at our own
peril. We do not want to remove privileges, nor do we want to increase
privileges without any testing. The reduction issue seems to have been
proven by the Incentive licensing problem in the 60's, and giving away
free upgrades will only serve to anger people in the other direction.


I agree 100%! Indeed, there is still criticism of the IL plan 36 years after it
was put in place, and in many places from people who did not become hams until long
after it was in effect!

One of these days I might come to the conclusion that there are a lot
of cranky hams out there! ;^)



It is a foolish system that angers people on purpose. You don't anger
those who are your friends, you anger your enemies.


Better yet, you render your enemies ineffective. But most of all you don't
anger your
friends unnecessarily.

To have a Morse code test for entry into HF is not going to happen, and


to have a Morse code test for Amateur Extra doesn't make sense, given
that the Extra is the highest level license, and Morse code was at one
time required for the lowest level, Novice. There is a big disconnect there.


I disagree!

Given the popularity of Morse code in amateur radio, it makes no sense to not
have it be a part of the testing for a license. Imagine if there were no questions on SSB
in the tests - would that make sense?

In the testing, yes, but I think a Fail Element 1 = no license is simply
a dog that isn't going to hunt.


The Morse Code test has been portrayed as the boogieman, as if it is the source
of all of amateur radio's problems. Yet there is no proof of these claims.

It isn't the boogieman! That's just an excuse for lack of effort (the
same thing Larry accuses me of!) We've already seen that some prime
agitators for elimination of Element one are now taking the next step
and supporting a radical easing of the writtens.

Nothing is easy enough. Remember what I said about the direction of the
tide some months back? I haven't seen anything to suggest I was wrong.


I therefore propose a system that is quite like what we have now.
Technician, General, and Amateur Extra. Privileges the same.


This means all Techs have VHF/UHF only?


Yup. And it's a good idea. Gives those that might want to be on HF some
incentive, and they neither gain or lose privileges. Did everyone know
that there are Technicians out there that are perfectly happy with what
they have now?

The two orphan classes, Tech plus and Advanced, will remain where they
are, with privileges staying the same.


What about Novice?

Oops, forgot the Novices. Yeah, they would retain the privileges they
have now. I really don't know how many people this will really affect.
Probably not too many active Novices any more.


After the changeover, the new testing regimen will be:

Technician: heavy on RF safety, Light on electronics theory. Some
questions related to the VHF and UHF where the tech's will largely
operate The technician is considered a preparatory license, and will
give a good base of how to get on the air without frying yourself in the
process.


Perhaps, but what that does is to funnel newcomers into VHF/UHF rather than HF.
And since VHF/UHF gear tends to be harder to homebrew and more complex than HF
equipment, it tends to funnel newcomers to manufactured equipment. Also, since there is
relatively little use of Morse Code for casual operating on VHF/UHF, it tends to funnel newcomers
to FM voice operation.

Remember they will still have 6 meter operation available to them. But
I still like this because it is an incentive to upgrade. And with no
Element 1, what is the impedance to upgrading?


General: General test will scale back on the RF safety, and replace it
with more theory. Antenna questions and operating procedures. The never
entertaining band edge questions will get a few more questions.


Needs to have some serious HF centric stuff, though.

Good point. Consider it added.


Extra: more in depth treatment of theory. No band edge or safety
questions, at this point, if you don't know safety, you've already fried
your mind. questions demonstrating knowledge of different modes.


The only controversial part of my proposal is that there would be a 2
year wait between General and Extra. I could be persuaded to drop that
pretty easily!


I'd say the experience requirements should be included.


Yippee! Got one person on board with that one! I really do think it's a
good idea, and it doesn't unduly punish anyone.

Bands and sub bands:

At this point, the bands will remain the same. Bandplan adjustments
will be made. Novice sections will remain, and will be considered a
"practice ground" for those who want to learn Morse code. note: this may
actually be a way to kick start Morse code use.


I don't see the need for that. Better to open up some of the lower part of the
bands for newcomers to use Morse.

The natural tendency is for Morse to be at the bottom of the band, data in the
middle, and 'phone at the top. Rather than fight that trend, the newcomer
segments should reinforce it.

The Novice subbands were originally put in the middle of their bands in a
misguided effort to keep them from straying outside the band edges. Since
Novices were originally required to use crystal control, this made little sense
even in 1951.

So there you have it. Here is a plan that shouldn't p**s anyone off
that isn't *already* mad about something, and as far as I can see, it's
major disadvantage is that it isn't glamorous or exciting.

Is it the "ideal" plan?* Heck no! But it accomplishes moving past the
Morse code issue with a minimum of disruption, and has the side benefit
that we know it will work.

Comments?


I agree that massive changes and giveaways are a bad idea.

However, I think that one of the problems today is that the entry-level license
is too VHF/UHF/voice/applicane operator-centric.
The entry level license should offer a wide selection of bands and modes,
rather than what we have now where newcomers get all of VHF/UHF but no HF.

I'm still big on the idea of a person having a good reason to upgrade.
This does it, and allows a real entry level opportunity for people, yet
allows a niche for those who are happy to stay there. And there will be
plenty of people that will be happy to stay there.

Without a real reason to upgrade, I can't really support a three class
system. I don't think that there are enough different privileges to
offer between three classes, unless you make one of the privileges HF
access.

And I can't really support power limits as a incentive to upgrade. It's
a forced distinction (keeping in mind that all distinctions are
arbitrary at some level) that I do not find acceptable.

RF safety and safety around high voltages is of critical importance for
amateurs. The RF field calculations are one thing, but to me even more
important is the potential for RF burns and B+ shocks.

The Technician is exposed to these dangers at events such as Field day
or contesting with other hams - I know I was.

And while a Unlicensed person may be operating the equipment too, they
are much more likely to be afraid to touch anything but the PTT switch.
The Technician will be more likely to be careless through familiarity.

I cannot in good conscience support a testing regimen that does not
test extensively for safety at the base level. And since the newly
minted Ham would have the knowledge of High-power levels and high
voltage, to limit them to low power would be arbitrary and punitive.

So that is my rationale for a system that has three classes, HF access
for two of them, and doesn't penalize or overly promote anyone.

- Mike KB3EIA -