"William" wrote in message
om...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?


You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article m, "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
. com...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Right, Mama Dee, that's "exactly" what happened after the second
hijacked airliner crashed into the WTC towers, didn't it?

Right...just like the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes when
the government ordered every radio thing be all ham emergency...

Right...just like all the southwest and northwest firestorms had
every radio commandeered for emergency use.

Right...just like every hurricane striking the east coast has all radios
off limits by Order.

Right...except the broadcast people, the news people, the Public
Safety Radio Services people, the utility radio (PLMRS) people,
the activated National Guards people, FEMA, etc., etc., etc. were
all using their radios as they usually would WITHOUT any nasty
gubmint orders.

I am saddened that your local telephone infrastructure has such
poor service wherever you live. However, here in the sunny
Greater Los Angeles area the telephone infrastructure was quite
normal after the first two hours of the Northridge quake. That was
ten years ago, of course, and the cell phones weren't as many
but neither were there as many cell sites. It all evened out.

But, in your scenario of the mind, "all cell sites fall down during
emergencies" and only ham radio can save everyone. In real
life they sure didn't. Don't let that trouble you. We are all
children to you.

LHA / WMD

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 3/19/2004 12:03 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article m, "Dee D.
Flint"
writes:

"William" wrote in message
.com...
Put 100 million amateurs on our bands and you think you can get a
message thru?

You are obviously unaware that in an emergency, the government can and does
declare designated frequencies off limits to general usage for the duration
of that emergency.

Right, Mama Dee, that's "exactly" what happened after the second
hijacked airliner crashed into the WTC towers, didn't it?

Was it necessary?

Right...just like the Loma Prieta and Northridge earthquakes when
the government ordered every radio thing be all ham emergency...

Nope...but they did declare a communicaitons emergency and certain
discreet HF frequencies WERE made hands-off to "routine" Amateur use...Just
likes dozens of other times they've done so for other like incidents.

Right...just like all the southwest and northwest firestorms had
every radio commandeered for emergency use.

Nice try at scare tactics...Except the only thing "scary" here is that
people like you are allowed to procreate without control.

Right...just like every hurricane striking the east coast has all radios
off limits by Order.

"Every"...?!?!

Certainly not.

Does the FCC order "communications emergencies" based upon these events?
They certainly do.

Right...except the broadcast people, the news people, the Public
Safety Radio Services people, the utility radio (PLMRS) people,
the activated National Guards people, FEMA, etc., etc., etc. were
all using their radios as they usually would WITHOUT any nasty
gubmint orders.

And used them well.

But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

I am saddened that your local telephone infrastructure has such
poor service wherever you live. However, here in the sunny
Greater Los Angeles area the telephone infrastructure was quite
normal after the first two hours of the Northridge quake. That was
ten years ago, of course, and the cell phones weren't as many
but neither were there as many cell sites. It all evened out.

Good for them. The incident was in a localized area, and I'd be very
dissappointed if the local utilities COULDN'T make this "fix" in a hurry.

But even MORE unfortuntate for YOU, Your Scumminess, is that YOU and YOU
ALONE keep trying to use the Northridge Earthquake as some "evidence" that
Amateur Radio is of no value in an emergency. That was ONE event in over 90
years of archived Amateur histroy.

I say unfortunate for you because YOU keep making these assinine
assertions only to have one report after another of Amateur Radio's services
being deployed in the very manner YOU say they aren't...

But, in your scenario of the mind, "all cell sites fall down during
emergencies" and only ham radio can save everyone. In real
life they sure didn't. Don't let that trouble you. We are all
children to you.

In real life, Lennie, NO ONE has made such an assinine assertion...

Only you in "support" of your rants.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.

JJ wrote in message ...
Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.

JayJay, I happen to be an amateur. I have equipment. I have been
trained.

I am available should the need arise.

I do not discredit amateur radio's usefulness in such times.

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

William wrote:

JJ wrote in message ...

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:



But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.


JayJay, I happen to be an amateur. I have equipment. I have been
trained.

I am available should the need arise.

I do not discredit amateur radio's usefulness in such times.

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

Because in a major disaster calling for emergency comms, the cell
network will be, far all practical purposes, useless. The emergency
officials will not rely on the cell network for major comms during an
emergency. In addition to the communication ability of military and
civil services, they will rely on Amateur Radio if it is needed, and
Amateur Radio will be there if needed. If a service is needed to
suplement other comms, they will not call on or count on the cell phone
network, they will call on Amateur Radio.

JJ wrote in message ...
William wrote:

JJ wrote in message ...

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:



But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.


JayJay, I happen to be an amateur. I have equipment. I have been
trained.

I am available should the need arise.

I do not discredit amateur radio's usefulness in such times.

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

Because in a major disaster calling for emergency comms, the cell
network will be, far all practical purposes, useless.

You have only one size of emergency: Huge!

That's laughable.

The emergency
officials will not rely on the cell network for major comms during an
emergency.

Hint: They will if it is useful for them to do so. Should the
network fail, they will resort to other means.

In addition to the communication ability of military and
civil services, they will rely on Amateur Radio if it is needed,

So Amateur Radio isn't their first choice? How sad.

and
Amateur Radio will be there if needed.

Perhaps it will and perhaps it won't. That is the nature of
volunteers. And if you're radio volunteers are also committed to
numerous other emergency and quasi-emergency relief agencies, and your
emergency is Huge, and if the cellular network is down, and if the
agency wireless communications fail, Then and only then will you learn
if Amatuer Radio was there when needed.

If a service is needed to
suplement other comms, they will not call on or count on the cell phone
network, they will call on Amateur Radio.

Because all emergencies are Huge!

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: JJ
Date: 3/19/2004 7:31 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

William wrote:

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

Because in a major disaster calling for emergency comms, the cell
network will be, far all practical purposes, useless. The emergency
officials will not rely on the cell network for major comms during an
emergency. In addition to the communication ability of military and
civil services, they will rely on Amateur Radio if it is needed, and
Amateur Radio will be there if needed. If a service is needed to
suplement other comms, they will not call on or count on the cell phone
network, they will call on Amateur Radio.

I just spent my weekend sitting in the TEMA/FEMA EOC in Nashville

All I can say is...WHEW!

I know Brainless and Lennie will discount any likelyhood of my
objectivity, however I was impressed with TEMA's communications facilities.

Yes, the FEMA folks each carry a cellphone with them. There are NO
seperate cellphone facilities in the EOC, however.

The EOC has the capability of accessing any frequency from 1.8MHz to 2GHz
in a plethora of modes, secure and unsecure, to include military if necessary.
Many commercial assets can be accessed if required. Off-site remotes are
situated with almost all of the same capabilites in case of an attack or other
loss of use of the prime EOC.

There is a dedicated Amateur Radio packet station, HF station, two V/UHF
operating positions and third UHF position dedicated to the MTEARS net (Middle
Tennessee Emergency Amateur Radio Service) which is directly tied to NOAA and
carries the bulk of SKYWARN traffic in western and middle Tennessee.

Thier own HF facilites include operating positions for SHARES, FEMA's own
nets,

A dedicated position for CAP (Civil Air Patrol) is being added to "the
pit". Communications assets for CAP will eventually include HF, VHF,
air-to-ground, and a digital imaging site for the HSI (Hyper Spectral Imaging)
package CAP aircraft are being equipped with, as well as VHF slow scan video.

With the exception of two "cordless" telephones, a handful of TV remotes,
and three ISR (Intra Squad Radios, the federal version of FRS) HT's used to
talk to the guard shack and garage, there are NO "unlicensed" devices on the
facility. (The only "major" role the ISR radios might play is if they are used
by a commissioned O-4 in the Armed Forces.)

Speaking of "TV remotes", this place would put a lot of those "every
channel of sports" sports bars to shame! They even had channels dedicated to
foreign news services running.

When I asked about "CB" radio or "GMRS", I was told that there were no
plans to use either, that there was not even a usable GMRS repeater in the
area. Any REACT group that presented itself would be "tasked under the ARES EC,
however we would not allow anyone coming here on the heels of something major
to try an wiggle in to an existing plan. We've pretty well got our plans in
place, and there's NO plan for CB radio.

The gentleman that I spent most of these two days with is a member of the
board of APCO, or Association of Public-safety Communications Officials, so I
think I can reasonably assume him to be a bit more knowledgeable than certain
posters in this forum on the subject of "emergency comms"...

73

Steve, K4YZ

Subject: Ham-radio is a hobby not a service
From: (William)
Date: 3/19/2004 6:21 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

JJ wrote in message
...
Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


But NOT for the types of communications that were supported by
Amateur
Radio...that's the PURPOSE of Amateur Radio...to relieve those other
services
of having to worry about that.

Lets see if in the next emergency when another service is needed to
relieve other services, which the emergency officials call on first for
relief, lenny and witless william with their gameboy cell phones, or ham
radio.
Try as they may to discredit ham radio's usefullness in such times, the
military and civil authorities consider ham radio to be viable means of
communications in emergencies, but not the cell network.

JayJay, I happen to be an amateur. I have equipment. I have been
trained.


You are licensed. The FCC says so.

You may have equipment. Anyone can buy it.

From the nature of the posts you have made ehre, I doubt that any training
you have had has been anything anyone would call "adequate".

I am available should the need arise.

I will go to bed comforted tonight knowing you're out there, Brain.

I do not discredit amateur radio's usefulness in such times.

That is not the truth. You've made grossly disparaging remarks in this
forum on several occassions.

Yet you greatly discredit the impact that cellular telephones have
made on emergency communications.

The point remains: The "emergency agencies" continue to make plans for
the use of Amateur Radio to help provide communication needs in the advent of
loss of regular telephony services...Not to use telephony if Amateur Radio
fails.

Steve, K4YZ

Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:



From the nature of the posts you have made ehre, I doubt that any training
you have had has been anything anyone would call "adequate".

Not so, he has been trained to program every emergency number he could
possibably need into his cell phone speed dial. However when the cell
network is either down or so overloaded because of everyone attempting
to call home to say, "I'm ok turn on your tv", that he can't get a call
through, he can use his cell phone to play games until the emergency is
over.