I still think that the Technician license is fine as an entry-level
license and that the Technician exam isn't terribly hard - just an
extended version of the old Novice exam.

The Tech exam is what, roughly equivalent to an honors level high school
physics
exam and history exam (I mention "history' as that requires memorizing
random
information, names and dates equivalent to frequency bands and such
rules). Not
the inner city non-honors public schools where if you can write your
name you
graduate)... The Extra exam might be roughly equivalent to an exam for
a 3 credit
college class.

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...





I still think that the Technician license is fine as an entry-level
license and that the Technician exam isn't terribly hard - just an
extended version of the old Novice exam.

The Tech exam is what, roughly equivalent to an honors level high school
physics
exam and history exam (I mention "history' as that requires memorizing
random
information, names and dates equivalent to frequency bands and such
rules). Not
the inner city non-honors public schools where if you can write your
name you
graduate)... The Extra exam might be roughly equivalent to an exam for
a 3 credit
college class.


Not hardly. The Tech and General exams are no harder than the material that
students are learning in junior high if they are going to even a halfway
decent school. The Tech and General exams require nothing harder than
adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing. I certainly hope our junior
high kids of average intelligence and standard class room training can
handle these basic math functions. The Extra exam couldn't hold a candle to
the exams that I had to take in college for a 3 credit course. Although
covering material that is not a typical school subject, it's no harder than
standard high school (non-honors physics).

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

The Tech exam is what, roughly equivalent to an honors level high school
physics
exam and history exam (I mention "history' as that requires memorizing
random
information, names and dates equivalent to frequency bands and such
rules). Not
the inner city non-honors public schools where if you can write your
name you
graduate)... The Extra exam might be roughly equivalent to an exam for
a 3 credit
college class.




Not hardly. The Tech and General exams are no harder than the material that
students are learning in junior high if they are going to even a halfway
decent school. The Tech and General exams require nothing harder than
adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing.

I was thinking of the part where you have to decide when and what to
add, multiply, etc.

I certainly hope our junior
high kids of average intelligence and standard class room training can
handle these basic math functions. The Extra exam couldn't hold a candle to
the exams that I had to take in college for a 3 credit course.

Most 3 credit classes are harder, but I had a few that were
"give-aways". Maybe
I should say "as hard as an easier hour test taken early in a freshman
college class".

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...











The Tech exam is what, roughly equivalent to an honors level high school
physics
exam and history exam (I mention "history' as that requires memorizing
random
information, names and dates equivalent to frequency bands and such
rules). Not
the inner city non-honors public schools where if you can write your
name you
graduate)... The Extra exam might be roughly equivalent to an exam for
a 3 credit
college class.




Not hardly. The Tech and General exams are no harder than the material
that
students are learning in junior high if they are going to even a halfway
decent school. The Tech and General exams require nothing harder than
adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing.

I was thinking of the part where you have to decide when and what to
add, multiply, etc.

If you read the problems in the question pool, they are no more difficult
than the word problems that students are required to learn to work in 6th
grade and down. They just substitute things like amps, watts, etc for
apples and pennies.


I certainly hope our junior
high kids of average intelligence and standard class room training can
handle these basic math functions. The Extra exam couldn't hold a candle
to
the exams that I had to take in college for a 3 credit course.

Most 3 credit classes are harder, but I had a few that were
"give-aways". Maybe
I should say "as hard as an easier hour test taken early in a freshman
college class".


Possibly but that will also depend on the subject they are majoring and
minoring in.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...

I was thinking of the part where you have to decide when and what to
add, multiply, etc.

Most 3 credit classes are harder, but I had a few that were
"give-aways". Maybe
I should say "as hard as an easier hour test taken early in a freshman
college class".

Robert,

All I can add here is that any Ohm's law problems I've seen have perhaps two
resistors in parallel with the combination in series with a third. That
hardly compares with first year college material with a modest network of
resistors (perhaps 12 or so) and a couple of different emf sources thrown
in - and you solve for the current and direction in one of the resistors
(first year, D.C. It gets worse, of course LOL).

Ah .... 1st year physics. Hmmm ... calculus was involved here. I don't
ever recall anything of that magnatude in an amateur radio exam. I also
doubt a 7 year old would likely pass such physics exams.

While I have no problem with the elimination of Morse code, nor have I a
problem with an easy entry level license, I am rather perplexed with the
continued insistance that the tests are too hard. I am also somewhat
surprised at a free ride of either codeless techs or tech plusses being
moved to general. The only techs which got the free ride were the techs
from years ago who took the general theory. The only difference was the 5
words per minute vs the 13 words per minute of the general class license.
When the code requirement was dropped to 5 words per minute, the old techs
had already passed the entire exam for new general class licensees. Hmmmm
.... come to think of it, they didn't get a 'free' ride - they passed the
same elements as newly issued general class licenses.

Just my thoughts ...


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA


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"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]
While I have no problem with the elimination of Morse code, nor have I a
problem with an easy entry level license, I am rather perplexed with the
continued insistance that the tests are too hard. I am also somewhat
surprised at a free ride of either codeless techs or tech plusses being
moved to general. The only techs which got the free ride were the techs
from years ago who took the general theory. The only difference was the 5
words per minute vs the 13 words per minute of the general class license.
When the code requirement was dropped to 5 words per minute, the old techs
had already passed the entire exam for new general class licensees. Hmmmm
... come to think of it, they didn't get a 'free' ride - they passed the
same elements as newly issued general class licenses.

Just my thoughts ...



And keep in mind that that upgrade isn't exactly "free". They have to take
the time and energy to find or get the necessary proof of license, find a
test session, show up at said test session, and process the paperwork.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]
While I have no problem with the elimination of Morse code, nor have I a
problem with an easy entry level license, I am rather perplexed with the
continued insistance that the tests are too hard. I am also somewhat
surprised at a free ride of either codeless techs or tech plusses being
moved to general. The only techs which got the free ride were the techs
from years ago who took the general theory. The only difference was the
5
words per minute vs the 13 words per minute of the general class
license.
When the code requirement was dropped to 5 words per minute, the old
techs
had already passed the entire exam for new general class licensees.
Hmmmm
... come to think of it, they didn't get a 'free' ride - they passed the
same elements as newly issued general class licenses.

Just my thoughts ...

And keep in mind that that upgrade isn't exactly "free". They have to
take
the time and energy to find or get the necessary proof of license, find a
test session, show up at said test session, and process the paperwork.

Actually there's no need at all to do that. All the FCC needs to
do is change the rules to reflect that all Techs licenses are now
General and they will be reissued as General as they individually
expire and are renewed. The same would be true for Advanced to
Extra, and, if the NCVEC petition wins out with the new entry
license being "Communicator" then existing Novice licenses
would be equivalent to Communicator and renewed as such when
the current license expired. There is NO immediate need for any
paperwork to happen at all.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Bill Sohl" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
[snip]
While I have no problem with the elimination of Morse code, nor have I
a
problem with an easy entry level license, I am rather perplexed with
the
continued insistance that the tests are too hard. I am also somewhat
surprised at a free ride of either codeless techs or tech plusses
being
moved to general. The only techs which got the free ride were the
techs
from years ago who took the general theory. The only difference was
the
5
words per minute vs the 13 words per minute of the general class
license.
When the code requirement was dropped to 5 words per minute, the old
techs
had already passed the entire exam for new general class licensees.
Hmmmm
... come to think of it, they didn't get a 'free' ride - they passed
the
same elements as newly issued general class licenses.

Just my thoughts ...

And keep in mind that that upgrade isn't exactly "free". They have to
take
the time and energy to find or get the necessary proof of license, find
a
test session, show up at said test session, and process the paperwork.

Actually there's no need at all to do that. All the FCC needs to
do is change the rules to reflect that all Techs licenses are now
General and they will be reissued as General as they individually
expire and are renewed. The same would be true for Advanced to
Extra, and, if the NCVEC petition wins out with the new entry
license being "Communicator" then existing Novice licenses
would be equivalent to Communicator and renewed as such when
the current license expired. There is NO immediate need for any
paperwork to happen at all.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

If the goal is simplification of number of classes, then there would indeed
be a need to do the upgrades enmass. Otherwise the closed classes could
hang on for up to 10 years, which nearly negates the simplification process.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article , Robert Casey
writes:

I still think that the Technician license is fine as an entry-level
license and that the Technician exam isn't terribly hard - just an
extended version of the old Novice exam.

The Tech exam is what, roughly equivalent to an honors level high school
physics
exam and history exam (I mention "history' as that requires memorizing random
information, names and dates equivalent to frequency bands and such rules).
Not
the inner city non-honors public schools where if you can write your name you
graduate)... The Extra exam might be roughly equivalent to an exam for a 3
credit
college class.

Hardly.

NONE of the US amateur license examinations are any sort
of academic achievement diplomas or certifications. The FCC
was never chartered to be any academic organization.

Of course, if you want to believe in the fantasy that an extra
doing 20+ wpm morse is an "expert radio operator" in this
new millennium, that's your thing. Would have been fine in
the 1930s. Not now.

If you want to start an "electro magnet school," fine. It worked
for Gordon West.

LHA / WMD

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"Robert Casey" wrote in message
...
[snip]
Whatever entry level license is proposed or is established should be
achievable by teenagers who are able to do fairly well in school. You
don't have to be a genius honor roll student to get it, but you should have
more smarts than Beavis and Butthead can muster....

This means that all the tests need to be harder as ordinary youths even
below the teen age level regularly pass the Technician and General class
exams. With a little extra elmering, some pass the Extra exam.

Yes, even SEVEN YEAR OLDS to extra. :-)

Yeah, lots of "elmering." Suuure.

LHA / WMD