Yes,

Dan/W4NTI

"Len Over 21" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Because we can do that right now Mike. I don't consider it being elitist
to
want to continue with a known effective mode. Those that want to get rid
of
it are world class fools.

The REST OF THE RADIO WORLD GOT RID OF TELEGRAPHY.

Are all those other radio services "fools" that they got rid of
radiotelegraphy?

I guess you think so. shrug

How's your therapy coming along?

LHA / WMD

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Because we can do that right now Mike. I don't consider it being elitist to
want to continue with a known effective mode. Those that want to get rid of
it are world class fools.

Dan/W4NTI

DAN, Dan, dan, it is the -EXAM- that we are getting rid of. If we got
rid of the psk practical exam, would you think we are trying to get
rid of the mode?

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message hlink.net...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message
et...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely for
the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty crowded
place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be on
any
CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the exclusive
subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.

We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely for
the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty crowded
place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be on

any

CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the exclusive
subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in :

N2EY wrote:
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Bert Craig" wrote in message
v.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that
they could get on the air and only associate with like minded
individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely
for the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty
crowded place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn
CW won't be on

any

CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the
exclusive subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.


We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...


Sorry Jim, they are busy with trying to lower the test
requirements
right now.

After all the Technicians are freebied up to General, they'll turn
their attentions to those pesky and annoying gentleman's agreements for
CW portions.

I'll bet you a pepperoni and cheese pizza that their bandplans
will
look quite different than yours. Theirs will be much simpler!

The rationale will be that it is SO much trouble for people to
keep
within bandplans that it is a big headache for hams to keep track of
where they are supposed to be. And why do those CW people get half our
bands anyhow?

The most amusing part will be when Carl and Bill show up with
their
spin on how it *isn't* a spectrum grab.

But you know, I suspect that in the brave new world of
post-restructuring ARS, that the new hams will simply do squatters
rights on the bandplan. It's only an agreement, so what can we do if
they decide to work there?

I wonder when the first CW segment SSB contest will be held?

- Mike KB3EIA -



I've never pretended I don't want more phone spectrum, but there again, I
have no connection with NCI either.

There are a couple of different issues here, and they are getting mixed up.
As a phone operator, it annoys me that the FCC rules give me _smaller_
subbands than in the gentleman's agreement known as the IARU Region 2
(North & South America) bandplan (not the one drawn up by the Antiquated
Radio Relay League, which of course is a subset of the FCC rules, as they
couldn't very well suggest illegal operation).

Repealing code testing will put more people on HF who don't do CW, although
some of them will be into PSK31, etc., so there will be more pressure to do
something about this. I actually agree that NCI is not the appropriate
vehicle for that, unless the name were changed? I also agree that they said
they would go away when they won, but I'm not them.

From the CW perspective, no doubt the CW segments of any bandplan are less
than the sum total of the FCC CW and data allocations, but the data guys
have to have somewhere to go! Do you really need CW only segments to
protect yourselves from them? (I don't know the answer, this is a genuine
question, and I'm not a data person so I really have no axe to grind).

If you do think that, and that may be a reasonable position to take, I only
have one point of disagreement. Above 1842 is available to phone in the
160m bandplan, and no I'm not talking about the League, I mean the IARU
bandplan again. Since 1810-1850 is the amateur exclusive part of the band,
it just wouldn't be right for all of that to be reserved for CW (although
you could have more CW somewhere else as far as I am concerned). 8 kHz is
not too much to ask for as a DX window for phone, and at least the FCC
doesn't prohibit it even of the League have failed to recognise it. If you
ask the FCC to prohibit phone there, then you can be sure I will file a
comment to the contrary.

Alun, N3KIP

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......

Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?

Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

The short answer is "because we're not 'elitist snobs' and our feet
are not 'firmly planted in the past'

The longer, more accurate answer is that it's not as simple as some
folks would like you to think.

For some, it really is "just about the code test". But for others, the
real issue is something variously called 'standards' or
'achievements'. That's where the real disagreement is. And it comes
out in a whole bunch of ways.

For example, how often have you heard the buzzphrases "it's a hobby"
or "it's just a hobby" or similar, given as an argument against some
requirement or another? Think about what the person pushing those
phrases really means. They're usually *not* saying "it's not a job".
Instead, what they're really saying is "don't expect much" or even
"don't expect anything".

Look at how the *written* exams have changed over the years, despite
claims that "it's just about the code test". Yet we have vocal support
for free upgrades and further written test reductions.

Did you see the article on "is training class efficient?" which
detailed a one-day-to-Tech cram course? They boasted an 85% success
rate - meaning that after just one day of class, 85% of their students
passed the Tech test. This was done by rote memorization of the
written exam question pool. Is this really what's best for the future
of the ARS? Some folks think so!

When you see arguments for "one class of license" ask "with what
requirements?" - but don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.

When you see people railing about "standards and requirements of the
1930s", ask what they propose as the "standards and requirements of
the 2000s" - but again, don't hold your breath waiting for a detailed
answer.

Some folks don't think there should be *any* standards or requirements
beyond a bare bones set of rules and regs from FCC. Of course we know
what happens in a radio service where that is the norm. It isn't
pretty.



73 de Jim, N2EY

In article ,
(William) writes:

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Because we can do that right now Mike. I don't consider it being elitist
to
want to continue with a known effective mode. Those that want to get rid
of
it are world class fools.

Dan/W4NTI

DAN, Dan, dan, it is the -EXAM- that we are getting rid of. If we got
rid of the psk practical exam, would you think we are trying to get
rid of the mode?

He doesn't understand that or cannot comprehend it. :-)

Everyone is a "fool" who is not a radiotelegrapher...

He needs therapy to understand the modern world.

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Stevie the gunnery nurse) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Because we can do that right now Mike. I don't consider it being elitist
to
want to continue with a known effective mode. Those that want to get rid
of
it are world class fools.

The REST OF THE RADIO WORLD GOT RID OF TELEGRAPHY.

"THE REST OF THE RADIO WORLD" is NOT "Amateur Radio"

That's what I wrote. You got it. Finally.

The purpose, practice and applications are NOT the same.

Yes, quite. The rest of the radio world isn't anal-retentive about
radiotelegraphy. They've gone beyond that. :-)


Are all those other radio services "fools" that they got rid of
radiotelegraphy?

Those "other radio services" are NOT "Amateur Radio".

Okay, so where are all the "fools" that Dan was talking about?

Could it be that the "fools" are those IN amateur radio who are
championing radiotelegraphy?

[oh, my, what a disturbing thought THAT is! :-) ]

I guess you think so. shrug

How's your therapy coming along?

Why is it that everyone who disagrees with you allegedly needs
"therapy"..?

Dan wants me to go elsewhere and DIE! That's serious mental
aberation.

It might be because YOU need it and are trying to deny it by
alledging everyone BUT you needs it.

So far, only yourself and Danny Boy have wanted me DEAD. :-)

I'm far from that...but I'm not wishing that on anyone else.

Primitive sociopaths want all who disagree with them to die or
otherwise disappear. They cannot abide opposite opinions.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Naaaaaaa...you're just a putz. Proven.

The gunnery nurse is back off his tranqs into abusive,
uncivil behavior. Tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk! :-)

LHA / WMD

"William" wrote in message
om...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Because we can do that right now Mike. I don't consider it being
elitist to
want to continue with a known effective mode. Those that want to get
rid of
it are world class fools.

Dan/W4NTI

DAN, Dan, dan, it is the -EXAM- that we are getting rid of. If we got
rid of the psk practical exam, would you think we are trying to get
rid of the mode?

There is no psk practical exam. The ONLY PRACTICAL exam we have in ham
radio is the CW TEST. Most of the rest is mainly BS memorization, that for
the most part is not even relevant to real world ham radio.

Dan/W4NTI

"N2EY" wrote in message
m...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...
"Bert Craig" wrote in message
et...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
If Pro CW Testing Amateurs a

Feet firmly planted in the past folks and elitist snobs......



Why wouldn't they WANT the Morse code testing eliminated so that
they
could get on the air and only associate with like minded
individuals?


Removing the test would be the ultimate filter.

- Mike KB3EIA -

That'll likely happen, Mike. If and when Element 1 is retained solely
for
the Extra, I suspect the Extra CW sub-bands will become a pretty
crowded
place. Kinda silly as those who won't (Not can't.) learn CW won't be
on
any
CW sub-bands.

73 de Bert
WA2SI



I've been a Extra for 30 years now. I hardly ever operate in the
exclusive
subbands, either phone or cw. But here lately I have been.

I have no problem with leaving 50 khz per band for CW.

We don't have that now! On HF/MF, there are *no* CW-only subbands.

I think such subbands are a very good idea. Something like this:

CW-only subbands:

160 meters: 1800-1850 kHz
80 meters: 3500-3575 kHz
40 meters: 7000-7050 kHz
30 meters: 10100-10120 kHz
20 meters: 14000-14075 kHz
17 meters: 18068-18088 kHz
15 meters: 21000-21075 kHz
12 meters: 24890-24910 kHz
10 meters: 28000-28100 kHz

Bottom 25 kHz of 80/40/20/15 reserved for Extras. Rest is available to
all other classes of license. CW would still be legal outside these
subbands but observance of the subbands would be encouraged as good
operating practice.

Why not?

You'd think that such a move would be offered by at least some of the
nocodetest folks...

73 de Jim, N2EY

I like it. And of course not.

Dan/W4NTI