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"Dee" == Dee D Flint writes:

Jack Hmm. Any chance you could provide some citations for these
Jack "gentleman's agreements"? I do not doubt their existence, I'd
Jack just like to find some online pointers to them. Recently I had
Jack to ask around where to find some RTTY so I could test my setup
Jack -- if I'd known about these agreements, I'd have a better chance
Jack of finding it on my own. Also, I'd like to avoid accidentally
Jack operating on a portion of the band which is traditionally for a
Jack different type of mode -- I'm more likely to get a response from
Jack a CW CQ if I'm not calling on the RTTY portion, etc.

Dee www.arrl.org - The website has a page listing the basics The ARRL
Dee Operating Manual Various ARRL publications on data modes and slow
Dee scan TV For VHF/UHF, the ARRL repeater directory

I was more interested in URLs to specific agreements. I've cruised
through the website from time to time but I hadn't happened to see
them. I lost my repeater directory in a car accident (how bizarre)
otherwise I'd check the front of that. I'm more interested in HF, of
course, so if you could point me to specific agreements, I'd be
dearly appreciative. Stuff like "weak signal work is done here,
beacons are done there, blah blah blah" are exactly what I'd like to
keep posted in my shack, and this kind of information should be
consolidated in a single source online.

Dee Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Jack Twilley" wrote in message
...
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"Dee" == Dee D Flint writes:

Jack Hmm. Any chance you could provide some citations for these
Jack "gentleman's agreements"? I do not doubt their existence, I'd
Jack just like to find some online pointers to them. Recently I had
Jack to ask around where to find some RTTY so I could test my setup
Jack -- if I'd known about these agreements, I'd have a better chance
Jack of finding it on my own. Also, I'd like to avoid accidentally
Jack operating on a portion of the band which is traditionally for a
Jack different type of mode -- I'm more likely to get a response from
Jack a CW CQ if I'm not calling on the RTTY portion, etc.

Dee www.arrl.org - The website has a page listing the basics The ARRL
Dee Operating Manual Various ARRL publications on data modes and slow
Dee scan TV For VHF/UHF, the ARRL repeater directory

I was more interested in URLs to specific agreements. I've cruised
through the website from time to time but I hadn't happened to see
them. I lost my repeater directory in a car accident (how bizarre)
otherwise I'd check the front of that. I'm more interested in HF, of
course, so if you could point me to specific agreements, I'd be
dearly appreciative. Stuff like "weak signal work is done here,
beacons are done there, blah blah blah" are exactly what I'd like to
keep posted in my shack, and this kind of information should be
consolidated in a single source online.

Dee Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


I already referenced the web site of the ARRL. All you have to do is enter
the words "band plan" in the box to search the site. Then scroll down until
you see the listing for band plans. I will NOT do this for you. The type
of information you seek is contained on the web page.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:03:51 -0400, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

I already referenced the web site of the ARRL. All you have to do is enter
the words "band plan" in the box to search the site. Then scroll down until
you see the listing for band plans. I will NOT do this for you.

OK...then I will:

AMATEUR FREQUENCY OPERATION RECOMMENDATIONS (ARRL Band Plans)
Reprinted from "The Considerate Operator's Frequency Guide",
January 1993 QST, page 61 and the ARRL Repeater Directory.
Copyright 1993 by the American Radio Relay League, Inc.
All rights reserved.

This information is for quick reference only - refer to the
band plan listings in the Operators Manual, The FCC Rule Book
or the ARRL Repeater Directory for full details. For sharing
arrangements, see Section 97.303 of the FCC Rules. For
detailed packet frequencies, see QST, September 1987, page 54
and March 1988, page 51.

160 METERS (1.8-2.0 MHz):
1.800-1.830 CW, RTTY and other narrowband modes
1.830-1.840 CW, RTTY and other narrowband modes,
Intercontinental QSOs only
1.840-1.850 CW, SSB, SSTV, other wideband modes,
Intercontinental QSOs only
1.850-2.000 CW, phone, SSTV and other wideband modes

80 METERS (3.5-4.0 MHz): 40 METERS (7.0-7.3 MHz):
3.590 RTTY DX 7.040 RTTY DX
3.580-3.620 RTTY 7.080-7.100 RTTY
3.620-3.635 Packet 7.171 SSTV
3.790-3.800 DX window 7.290 AM
3.845 SSTV
3.885 AM calling frequency

30 METERS (10.1-10.15 MHz): 17 METERS (18.068-18.168 MHz):
10.130-10.140 RTTY 18.100-18.105 RTTY
10.140-10.150 Packet 18.105-18.110 Packet

20 METERS (14.0-14.35 MHz): 15 METERS (21.0-21.45 MHz):
14.070-14.095 RTTY 21.070-21.090 RTTY
14.095-14.0995 Packet 21.090-21.100 Packet
14.100 NCDXF Beacons 21.340 SSTV
14.1005-14.112 Packet
14.230 SSTV 12 METERS (24.89-24.99 MHz):
14.286 AM calling frequency 24.920-24.925 RTTY
24.925-24.930 Packet

10 METERS (28-29.7 MHz):
28.000-28.070 CW
28.070-28.150 RTTY
28.150-28.190 CW
28.190-28.200 New Beacon subband *
28.200-28.300 Old Beacon subband *
28.300-29.300 Phone
28.680 SSTV
29.000-29.200 AM
29.300-29.510 Satellite Downlinks
29.510-29.590 Repeater Inputs
29.600 FM Simplex
29.610-29.700 Repeater Outputs
* Note: The FCC states in 97.203(d) that automatically controlled
beacons may only operate on 28.20-28.30 MHz.

6 METERS (50-54 MHz):
50.0-50.1 CW, beacons
50.060-50.080 beacon subband
50.1-50.3 SSB, CW
50.10-50.125 DX window
50.125 SSB calling
50.3-50.6 All modes
50.6-50.8 Nonvoice communications
50.62 Digital (packet) calling
50.8-51.0 Radio remote control (20-kHz channels)
51.0-51.1 Pacific DX window
51.12-51.48 Repeater inputs (19 channels)
51.12-51.18 Digital repeater inputs
51.62-51.98 Repeater outputs (19 channels)
51.62-51.68 Digital repeater outputs
52.0-52.48 Repeater inputs (except as noted; 23 channels)
52.02, 52.04 FM simplex
52.2 TEST PAIR (input)
52.5-52.98 Repeater output (except as noted; 23 channels)
52.525 Primary FM simplex
52.54 Secondary FM simplex
52.7 TEST PAIR (output)
53.0-53.48 Repeater inputs (except as noted; 19 channels)
53.0 Remote base FM simplex
53.02 Simplex
53.1, 53.2, Radio remote control
53.3, 53.4
53.5-53.98 Repeater outputs (except as noted; 19 channels)
53.5, 53.6, Radio remote control
53.7, 53.8
53.52-53.9 Simplex
Note: The 6-meter band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of
Directors at the July 1991 meeting. The band plan is
currently being studied by the ARRL Ad Hoc Spectrum
Management Committee.

2 METERS (144-148 MHz):
144.00-144.05 EME (CW)
144.05-144.10 General CW and weak signals
144.10-144.20 EME and weak-signal SSB
144.200 National calling frequency
144.200-144.275 General SSB operation
144.275-144.300 Propagation beacons
144.30-144.50 New OSCAR subband
144.50-144.60 Linear translator inputs
144.60-144.90 FM repeater inputs
144.90-145.10 Weak signal and FM simplex
(145.01,03,05,07,09 are widely used for packet)
145.10-145.20 Linear translator ouputs
145.20-145.50 FM repeater outputs
145.50-145.80 Miscellaneous and experimental modes
145.80-146.00 OSCAR subband
146.01-147.37 Repeater inputs
146.40-146.58 Simplex
146.61-146.97 Repeater outputs
147.00-147.39 Repeater outputs
147.42-147.57 Simplex
147.60-147.99 Repeater inputs
Notes: The frequency 146.40 MHz is used in some areas as a repeater
input. This band plan has been proposed by the ARRL VHF-UHF
Advisory Committee.

1.25 METERS (222-225 MHz):
222.0-222.150 Weak-signal modes
222.0-222.025 EME
222.05-222.06 Propagation beacons
222.1 SSB & CW calling frequency
222.10-222.15 Weak-signal CW & SSB
222.15-222.25 Local coordinator's option; weak
signal, ACSB, repeater inputs, control
222.25-223.38 FM repeater inputs only
222.40-223.52 FM simplex
223.52-223.64 Digital, packet
223.64-223.70 Links, control
223.71-223.85 Local coordinator's option; FM simplex,
packet, repeater outputs
223.85-224.98 Repeater outputa only
Note: The 222 MHz band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of
Directors in July 1991.

70 CENTIMETERS (420-450 MHz):
420.00-426.00 ATV repeater or simplex with 421.25 MHz video
carrier control links and experimental
426.00-432.00 ATV simplex with 427.250-MHz video carrier frequency
432.00-432.07 EME (Earth-Moon-Earth)
432.07-432.10 Weak-signal CW
432.10 70-cm calling frequency
432.10-432.30 Mixed-mode and weak-signal work
432.30-432.40 Propagation beacons
432.40-433.00 Mixed-mode and weak-signal work
433.00-435.00 Auxiliary/repeater links
435.00-438.00 Satellite only (internationally)
438.00-444.00 ATV repeater input with 439.250-MHz video carrier
frequency and repeater links
442.00-445.00 Repeater inputs and outputs (local option)
445.00-447.00 Shared by auxiliary and control links, repeaters
and simplex (local option)
446.00 National simplex frequency
447.00-450.00 Repeater inputs and outputs (local option)
Note: The 440 MHz band plan is under review by the ARRL VHF-UHF
Advisory Committee

33 CENTIMETERS (902-928 MHz):
902.0-903.0 Narrow-bandwidth, weak-signal communications
902.0-902.8 SSTV, FAX, ACSSB, experimental
902.1 Weak-signal calling frequency
902.8-903.0 Reserved for EME, CW expansion
903.1 Alternate calling frequency
903.0-906.0 Digital communications
906-909 FM repeater outputs
909-915 ATV
915-918 Digital communications
918-921 FM repeater inputs
921-927 ATV
927-928 FM simplex and links
Note: The 902 MHz band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of
Directors in July 1989

23 CENTIMETERS (1240-1300 MHz):
1240-1246 ATV #1
1246-1248 Narrow-bandwidth FM point-to-point links and
digital, duplex with 1258-1260.
1248-1258 Digital Communications
1252-1258 ATV #2
1258-1260 Narrow-bandwidth FM point-to-point links and
digital, duplexed with 1246-1252
1260-1270 Satellite uplinks, reference WARC '79
1260-1270 Wide-bandwidth experimental, simplex ATV
1270-1276 Repeater inputs, FM and linear, paired with 1282-1288,
239 pairs every 25 kHz, eg 1270.025, .050, etc.
1271-1283 Non-coordinated test pair
1276-1282 ATV #3
1282-1288 Repeater outputs, paired with 1270-1276
1288-1294 Wide-bandwidth experimental, simplex ATV
1294-1295 Narrow-bandwidth FM simplex services, 25-kHz channels
1294.5 National FM simplex calling frequency
1295-1297 Narrow bandwidth weak-signal communications (no FM)
1295.0-1295.8 SSTV, FAX, ACSSB, experimental
1295.8-1296.0 Reserved for EME, CW expansion
1296.00-1296.05 EME-exclusive
1296.07-1296.08 CW beacons
1296.1 CW, SSB calling frequency
1296.4-1296.6 Crossband linear translator input
1296.6-1296.8 Crossband linear translator output
1296.8-1297.0 Experimental beacons (exclusive)
1297-1300 Digital Communications

2300-2310 and 2390-2450 MHz:
2300.0-2303.0 High-rate data
2303.0-2303.5 Packet
2303.5-2303.8 TTY packet
2303.9-2303.9 Packet, TTY, CW, EME
2303.9-2304.1 CW, EME
2304.1 Calling frequency
2304.1-2304.2 CW, EME, SSB
2304.2-2304.3 SSB, SSTV, FAX, Packet AM, Amtor
2304.30-2304.32 Propagation beacon network
2304.32-2304.40 General propagation beacons
2304.4-2304.5 SSB, SSTV, ACSSB, FAX, Packet AM,
Amtor experimental
2304.5-2304.7 Crossband linear translator input
2304.7-2304.9 Crossband linear translator output
2304.9-2305.0 Experimental beacons
2305.0-2305.2 FM simplex (25 kHz spacing)
2305.20 FM simplex calling frequency
2305.2-2306.0 FM simplex (25 kHz spacing)
2306.0-2309.0 FM Repeaters (25 kHz) input
2309.0-2310.0 Control and auxiliary links
2390.0-2396.0 Fast-scan TV
2396.0-2399.0 High-rate data
2399.0-2399.5 Packet
2399.5-2400.0 Control and auxiliary links
2400.0-2403.0 Satellite
2403.0-2408.0 Satellite high-rate data
2408.0-2410.0 Satellite
2410.0-2413.0 FM repeaters (25 kHz) output
2413.0-2418.0 High-rate data
2418.0-2430.0 Fast-scan TV
2430.0-2433.0 Satellite
2433.0-2438.0 Satellite high-rate data
2438.0-2450.0 WB FM, FSTV, FMTV, SS experimental
Note: The 2300 MHz band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of
Directors in January 1991
Note: The following band plans were adopted by the ARRL Board
of Directors in July 1988

3300-3500 MHz:
3456.3-3456.4 Propagation beacons

5650-5925 MHz:
5760.3-5760.4 Propagation beacons

10.00-10.50 GHz:
10.368 Narrow band calling frequency
10.3683-10.3684 Propagation beacons
10.3640 Calling frequency

All modes and licensees (except Novices) are authorized on
the following bands:
24.0-24.25 GHz 165.0-170.0
48.0-50.0 240.0-250.0
71.0-76.0 All above 300

The ARRL members and HQ staff would like to thank the following people
for their contributions to this information file:
K1CE WB8IMY NU0X

Send any additional information or changes to .
73 from ARRL HQ.

73 DE John D. Kasupski, KC2HMZ
Tonawanda, New York, USA
ARRL Western New York PIO

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Thank you for the useful information.

Out of curiosity, do you know how these agreements came about, and who
agreed to what? Is this something the ARRL just announced one day, or
did these band plans arise out of years of usage clustering, or what?
I figure you might know, considering your position in the organization,
or at least you'd be able to find out. :-)

Thanks again.

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:03:51 -0400, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

I already referenced the web site of the ARRL. All you have to do is
enter
the words "band plan" in the box to search the site. Then scroll down
until
you see the listing for band plans. I will NOT do this for you.

OK...then I will:

AMATEUR FREQUENCY OPERATION RECOMMENDATIONS (ARRL Band Plans)

[snip]

It's never a good idea to do a student's homework for them. It leads to
laziness and dependency on other people for info that is easily found by
checking basic references.. I'd already referenced the site and
documentation he needed to check previously. Then I gave specific
instructions on how to find the info. That is all that should have been
required.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

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"Dee" == Dee D Flint writes:

Dee I already referenced the web site of the ARRL. All you have to
Dee do is enter the words "band plan" in the box to search the site.
Dee Then scroll down until you see the listing for band plans. I
Dee will NOT do this for you.

KC2HMZ OK...then I will:
KC2HMZ
KC2HMZ AMATEUR FREQUENCY OPERATION RECOMMENDATIONS (ARRL Band Plans)
KC2HMZ
KC2HMZ [snip]

Dee It's never a good idea to do a student's homework for them.

Attempting to answer a question in a condescending manner (and failing
to answer the question correctly) does not imply a teacher-student
relationship. Frankly, it's not clear to me that you have the
capability to build or maintain such a relationship, based on what
I've seen here. That's neither here nor there, however.

Dee It leads to laziness and dependency on other people for info that
Dee is easily found by checking basic references.. I'd already
Dee referenced the site and documentation he needed to check
Dee previously. Then I gave specific instructions on how to find the
Dee info. That is all that should have been required.

You spent a thousand characters where twenty would have been
acceptable. In fact, both you and KC2HMZ gave me information on "the
band plans", not "the gentleman's agreements", which was the specific
bit I asked about, repeatedly. It's not just "where can I find RTTY
traffic?", it's "why is RTTY found there" that interests me the most.

You were so lost in your sophistry that you lost sight of the actual
question being asked. Reread the original question I posed, your
response, my response which included a restating of the original
question, and your second response, and honestly tell me what you were
trying to accomplish.

Now, if you have any information about the gentleman's agreements that
led to the band plans, please, share with me and the others. I am
interested in the actual content you may be able to provide, but I
have no patience for attitude or condescension. The last thing I need
is someone trying to teach me to fish when my question concerns how
night-crawlers on barbed hooks became the approach of choice.

Dee Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Jack.
- --
Jack Twilley
jmt at twilley dot org
http colon slash slash www dot twilley dot org slash tilde jmt slash
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Subject: CW Testing Question
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 5/28/2004 9:56 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:03:51 -0400, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

I already referenced the web site of the ARRL. All you have to do is
enter
the words "band plan" in the box to search the site. Then scroll down
until
you see the listing for band plans. I will NOT do this for you.

OK...then I will:

AMATEUR FREQUENCY OPERATION RECOMMENDATIONS (ARRL Band Plans)

[snip]

It's never a good idea to do a student's homework for them. It leads to
laziness and dependency on other people for info that is easily found by
checking basic references.. I'd already referenced the site and
documentation he needed to check previously. Then I gave specific
instructions on how to find the info. That is all that should have been
required.

Although not a regular in this forum (any more, any way) John is well
known in various CB radio and scanner NG's, usually for his overwhelming desire
to be king of the hill and lack of regard for how he gets there.

His "debating" techniques have cost him a couple of ISP's, I understand,
and got him in trouble with local law enforcement. He was also listowner of a
fairly well populated Yahoo group that went ka-put due to his escapades.

As you can see, Dee, he's got a bit of the same "See, I Know More Than
You" streak in him that Lennie has...

Welcome back, John. Worn out your welcome elsewhere again...?!?!

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: CW Testing Question
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 5/28/2004 9:56 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:03:51 -0400, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:

I already referenced the web site of the ARRL. All you have to do is
enter
the words "band plan" in the box to search the site. Then scroll down
until
you see the listing for band plans. I will NOT do this for you.

OK...then I will:

AMATEUR FREQUENCY OPERATION RECOMMENDATIONS (ARRL Band Plans)

[snip]

It's never a good idea to do a student's homework for them. It leads to
laziness and dependency on other people for info that is easily found by
checking basic references.. I'd already referenced the site and
documentation he needed to check previously. Then I gave specific
instructions on how to find the info. That is all that should have been
required.

Although not a regular in this forum (any more, any way) John is well
known in various CB radio and scanner NG's, usually for his overwhelming
desire to be king of the hill and lack of regard for how he gets there.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...looking in the mirror again? :-)

His "debating" techniques have cost him a couple of ISP's, I understand,
and got him in trouble with local law enforcement. He was also listowner of a
fairly well populated Yahoo group that went ka-put due to his escapades.

Remember who manufactured a very libelous "home page" on AOL?

Lasted for all of three days before AOL removed it. Nearly removed
nursie from its subscribers, too. :-)

As you can see, Dee, he's got a bit of the same "See, I Know More Than
You" streak in him that Lennie has...

Poor baby. Nursie has to understand that MANY know more than he
does. :-)

There's the "MARS is amateur radio" claim...which remains just a
claim since the DoD defines MARS, not the FCC or ARRL.

No one goes to as great lengths as the gunnery nurse in trying to
damn others. Nursie DOES have top honors in that. :-)

LHA / WMD

Subject: CW Testing Question
From: (Len Over 21)
Date: 5/28/2004 3:04 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Although not a regular in this forum (any more, any way) John is well
known in various CB radio and scanner NG's, usually for his overwhelming
desire to be king of the hill and lack of regard for how he gets there.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...looking in the mirror again?

Nope.

Remember who manufactured a very libelous "home page" on AOL?

No one I know, Lennie.

If somethings true, it's not libelous.

You are a lair. You DID misrepresent your intentions with an e-mail that
contained OTHER than what you attested to it being.

Lasted for all of three days before AOL removed it. Nearly removed
nursie from its subscribers, too.

That's OK. It wouldn't have lasted too long. That's what lawyers are
for.

As you can see, Dee, he's got a bit of the same "See, I Know More Than
You" streak in him that Lennie has...

Poor baby. Nursie has to understand that MANY know more than he
does.

No doubt. But when it comes to Amateur Radio, I DO know more than
YOU, Lennie!

And that's ALL that counts!

There's the "MARS is amateur radio" claim...which remains just a
claim since the DoD defines MARS, not the FCC or ARRL.

No Amateur Radio = No MARS.

No one goes to as great lengths as the gunnery nurse in trying to
damn others. Nursie DOES have top honors in that.

Just you, Lennie. The others "damn" themselves.

Steve, K4YZ

On 28 May 2004 19:35:45 GMT, (Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote:

Although not a regular in this forum (any more, any way) John is well
known in various CB radio and scanner NG's, usually for his overwhelming desire
to be king of the hill and lack of regard for how he gets there.

Various? There is only one CB newsgroup, rec.radio.cb - and if I'm
well-known there it's because of telling certain regulars there what I
thought of their blatant disregard for Part 95.

Any of the folks in the scanner newsgroups who know me, know me from
material published in Popular Communications, or from when I was a
member of NYSING, or both.

His "debating" techniques have cost him a couple of ISP's, I understand,
and got him in trouble with local law enforcement.

That what KF2TI told you? That's bull. I've never had an account
yanked by an ISP, nor had any trouble with local law enforcement. On
the other hand, I've been known to work *with* local law enforcement
on occasion.

He was also listowner of a
fairly well populated Yahoo group that went ka-put due to his escapades.

At the time I owned it, it was not a Yahoo group, it was a onelist.com
group, and it did not go kaput - it became a Yahoo group when
onelist.com and Yahoo merged, and it still exists - the current list
owner is Al Stern of Satellite Beach, Florida who is an old buddy of
mine from the #monitor channel on IRCNet.

he only reason you're ****ed about all of this is that I refused to
let you and KF2TI join that list, which I did because after observing
your antics in rec.radio.amateur.policy - particularly your penchant
for trading personal attacks with Len Anderson and others in this NG,
which has been going on for years now - I decided I did not want
people of your ilk polluting the Radiomonitors list.

As you can see, Dee, he's got a bit of the same "See, I Know More Than
You" streak in him that Lennie has...

If you wish to draw that conclusion based on the fact that I responded
to a request for information by posting information, it's no skin off
my fanny, Steve. Besides, somebody in this NG has to post something
besides personal attacks on other users, or the whole NG will consist
of nothing but half a dozen trolls such as yourself, and the hobby
deserves better than that.

Welcome back, John. Worn out your welcome elsewhere again...?!?!

Actually, I just switched to a different ISP, which has an NNTP
server, among other things that my old ISP did not (the old one was a
dialup and an e-mail account, period).