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Old June 24th 04, 05:20 PM
Ryan, KC8PMX
 
Posts: n/a
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Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands. Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner. Field
day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.

Not sure which classification I will be running yet, but will be using 3
transmitters, on battery power, occasionally charged by a vehicle's
electrical system, but the batteries won't be located in the vehicle. And I
will be operating from our fire department's parking lot of which I am a
member of.

Now, would I be a B, C, or F station, and also, does the number mean persons
or transmitters?? I am thinking if it means number of transmitters, I might
be a 3B, 3C, or 3F possibly..... If it means persons, then I might be a 1B,
1C, or 1F station..... Any suggestions? A little confused with the field
day rules.

Ryan KC8PMX



"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
news

Field Day is next weekend. Anybody in the group here have plans?

I'll be on the air with the Amateur Radio Association of the
Tonawandas as one of the W2SEX ops. We'll be running four stations
(CW, HF Phone, HF Digital, and VHF/UHF) plus doing SSTV, ATV, and APRS
demo modes, and we may also satellite contacts through SaudiSat I if
it makes a pass at a good time and we fall into its footprint.

Here's hoping we get to work some of you or your clubs' stations over
the weekend. 73 and good luck during Field Day.

Needless to say, I'll be absent from the NG over the weekend.

73 DE John D. Kasupski
Tonawanda, New York, USA
Amateur Radio (KC2HMZ), HF/VHF/UHF Monitoring (KNY2VS)
Member ARATS, ARES, RACES, WUN



  #3   Report Post  
Old June 27th 04, 06:53 PM
Ryan, KC8PMX
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.


I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics

thru
my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.


It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi




Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.

Field
day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.


How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?


No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing
by the school that is).

Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and
deal with it as best as we can.

In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency
would occur.......

Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.





Not sure which classification I will be running yet, but will be using 3
transmitters, on battery power, occasionally charged by a vehicle's
electrical system, but the batteries won't be located in the vehicle. And

I
will be operating from our fire department's parking lot of which I am a
member of.


I had hoped to not be working this weekend, however I'm stuck.


I can relate.... have had to work weekends in the past too on that same
weekend.



Quite a few years ago I had built a small wind generator and had it on

the
roof of the barracks I was in. It charged two marine (no pun intended)

deep
cycle trolling motor batteries and those in turn ran my ICOM IC-730.

I ran it at 35-50 watts CW and I ran out beofre the batteries

did!

I've been wanting to build another, and perhaps I will before next

Field
Day.

73

Steve, K4YZ


I have been contemplating some type of solar charging system, but will be
looking into various costs of doing so. Since my operation will be
operating at a park picnic table, with my car near by, solar panels small
enough to transport but large enough to provide adequate surface
charging/and usage for daytime, so that when the evening comes, I can start
will full batteries would be nice. Well, I have a whole year now to work on
that!

Ryan KC8PMX







  #4   Report Post  
Old June 28th 04, 04:45 AM
Mike Coslo
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Ryan, KC8PMX wrote:

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.


I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics


thru

my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.



It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi




Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.


Field

day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.


How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?



No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing
by the school that is).


That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for
your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way,
I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike.

And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out!

Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his
absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman?

Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and
deal with it as best as we can.

In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency
would occur.......


Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be
putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several
days without sleep. You may be injured.

Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have
a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency
condx.

Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is
going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain
transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything.

The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about
emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Dunno where tha hyper
accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from.



Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.


Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can
do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that?


Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our
biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was
doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a
LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me,
supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My
only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my
position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president.

The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too
much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. Well, no one
wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they
ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for
nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make
absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money
every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't
they?

Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they
are doing, do better.

- Mike KB3EIA -



  #5   Report Post  
Old June 28th 04, 11:14 AM
N2EY
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing
by the school that is).


That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for
your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way,
I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike.


Comes down to "do you plan FD for what will bring out the most people, or what
will make the most points, or what will be the most realistic emergency
simulation. or what will get the most publicity?" Or any of a bunch of other
goals.

And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out!

Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his
absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman?


Classic "bell the cat" problem.

Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation.


That's your vision of it, Ryan. Others see FD very differently.

The good thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why
it's so popular - brings out more hams than any other domestic operating
activity.

The bad thing is that FD has many facets and can be done many ways. That's why
it can be such a source of disagreement.

Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we
set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications.


It's fundamentally a skills and planning exercise. It's one thing to talk about
setting up a station quickly in an unprepared location, and another thing to
actually *do* it. Operating skills get practiced. Teamwork and learning to deal
with volunteers, both as a leader and as a team member.

Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know
when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and
deal with it as best as we can.


But you guys have training sessions, right?

In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to
be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency
would occur.......


Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be
putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several
days without sleep. You may be injured.

Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have
a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency
condx.


You can't simulate all of them by any means, but FD simulates some of them.

Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is
going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain
transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or anything.


Maybe. Or it might go the other way - you may be asked to go to a certain
location and bring everything you need along.

The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about
emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops.


Bingo!

Dunno where tha hyper
accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from.

Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.


The trick is to balance all the different aspects.

Here's a scenario for ya:

Months in advance, everyone who wants to participate is required to fill out a
form listing what equipment, time, and skills they can volunteer for FD.
Everyone is responsible for keeping their FD forms updated of changes
(equipment /schedule changes, license upgrades, etc.)

The forms are collected and the FD committee of no more than 3 people puts
together a Field Day master plan.

48-72 hours before FD, everyone who is signed up gets their "sealed orders"
which detail where they are to go, what they are expected to bring with them
and what they are expected to do for FD. It could be as simple as "show up at X
on or before time T and operate station S" or as complex as "head the team
running station S, bring a this list of equipment..."

Included could be things bringing like foul-weather gear even though the
forecast is perfect. You don't have to wear it but you have to have it with
you. Could also simulate equipment breakdowns and unavailability - although
that sort of thing often happens anyway.

Except for the FD committee, nobody knows what they're going to be doing until
shortly before FD. To more realistically simulate, some very good resources
(rigs, antennas, generators, etc.) might be left completely unused while less
than perfect substitutes are pressed into service.

You'd probably love a Field Day like that, Ryan. Would be a great learning
experience for all. But I can guarantee you that more than half (probably more
than 3/4) of the FD regulars in your club would walk away if the club tried
such a plan cold turkey.

Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can
do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that?


And if you are, how will you deal with the inevitable disputes that will arise?
Remember, these folks are all volunteers, bringing their own equipment with
them.

Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our
biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was
doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a
LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me,
supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My
only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my
position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice president.

The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too
much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member.


You said the big bad C word - commitment.

Well, no one
wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they
ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for
nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make
absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money
every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't
they?


bwaahaahaa - great story, Mike.

Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they
are doing, do better.

Most of all, understand that FD is very different things to very different
people.

73 de Jim, N2EY



  #6   Report Post  
Old June 29th 04, 05:34 AM
Ryan, KC8PMX
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Ryan, KC8PMX wrote:

"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...

Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.

I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics


thru

my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.



It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call

of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi

hi




Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.


Field

day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.

How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?



No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree

with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am

not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been

chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county

(as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends

(passing
by the school that is).


That you disagree is one thing. No problem there. But field day is for
your club, and it seems that there is an "if things aren't done my way,
I'm not going to play. Not too teamlike.

And if you all seriously want to do it differently, vote the dude out!


Believe me, that is in the works.



Of course, will someone step up to the plate and run field day in his
absence? Is there a clamor and a rush of people wanting to be FD Chairman?


No, apparently only the vice-pres can do that....


Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we

set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications.

Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know

when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond

and
deal with it as best as we can.

In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that

to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that

emergency
would occur.......


Sure. You may need to be operating while ill from something or be
putting your life at serious risk at the time. You may be up for several
days without sleep. You may be injured.


Now thats going to extremes, but in reality, still, right now we have up to
a year to choose the sites we operate for F.D., and like I said, some places
might be less than desired.....


Heck, even the person you are trying to communicate with may only have
a CW rig. So you can't even begin to simulate truly accurate emergency
condx.

Under most real emergency circumstances, some emergency personell is
going to tell you to go to a certain place, and operate a certain
transciever. You won't set up a tent or put together a station or

anything.

The purpose of FD is to in large prt get peopl simply *thinking* about
emergency ops, and *doing* some simulated ops. Dunno where tha hyper
accurate emergency scenario that I hear about came from.


Well hell, I can *think* about emergency ops all day/year long..... but it
is NOT a simulation at this point from what I have seen locally of at least
a dozen local area groups..... Its merely a "contest" but doing it from
outside instead of indoors.




Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director

decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.


Best way to control where the site is is to become an EC. The you can
do as YOUR philosophical desires dictate. Are you willing to do that?


Yep, and an assistant EC right now.



Related item. I was in a club years ago where I was in charge of our
biggest fund raiser. Some of the club members didn't like how I was
doing things (specifically, my methods required some work) But we made a
LOT of money for a small club. So they led a revolt against me,
supported by the club prez of refusing to help me or work for me. My
only option that didn't make me look like an idiot was to resign from my
position and chairmanship and the club. I was ironically the Vice

president.


The result? Remember how they thought that my working demands were too
much? I wanted 4 hours of work per year per club member. Well, no one
wanted to work even after they got ride of the ******* - me, so they
ended up hiring three people to do my job (keeping in mind, I did it for
nuttin'), subbed out the most lucrative part of the job, and now make
absolutely no money on a fund raiser that was bringing in a lot of money
every year. They are actually in money trouble now. Smart people weren't
they?

Point is, be good to the volunteers, and if you don't like what they
are doing, do better.

- Mike KB3EIA -


Yeah, unfortunately we have our own set of problems..... including lack of
participation..... I feel your pain brother.

Ryan KC8PMX




  #7   Report Post  
Old June 28th 04, 05:20 PM
William
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.


I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those phonetics

thru
my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.


It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi hi


Can't we all just get along?

Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.

Field
day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.


How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?


No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county (as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends (passing
by the school that is).


Let me guess. He's an Extra?

Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications. Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond and
deal with it as best as we can.


Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up
at KOA.

In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that emergency
would occur.......


Hmmmm.

Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.


Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations.
Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts.

Extra points, of course.
  #9   Report Post  
Old June 29th 04, 05:55 AM
Ryan, KC8PMX
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"William" wrote in message
om...
"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message

...
"Steve Robeson K4CAP" wrote in message
...
Subject: Field Day Plans?
From: "Ryan, KC8PMX"
Date: 6/24/2004 11:20 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Will be running KC8PMX on 50Mhz-450Mhz bands.

I was thinking a shorter call would help, but I ran those

phonetics
thru
my mind a couple times, and "PAPA MIKE X-RAY" seems to me to be rather
prominent.


It's not too bad, although I wished I would have gotten a different call
when originally assigned. I might purposefully go for the vanity call

of
K8KEA, just to be a pain in the ass because our club call is W8KEA. hi

hi

Can't we all just get along?


Well, I guess I have never been a conformist, or one to be a "bump on the
log" type as I see so many are..... LOL

I just hate my suffix.... never liked it from the start, but never gotten
around to changing it either through vanity call process or simple
reassignment through the pool.


Decided to run on my own as a
matter of passive resistance to the local club's field day planner.

Field
day is supposed to be an emergency preparedness scenario, and there

is
nothing close to that from what I see of the plans locally here.

How's that, Ryan...??? Too much of the picnic-in-the-park thing?


No, just a kind of passive resistance thing. I seriously do not agree

with
the person who is our field day planner and club vicepresident. I am

not
the only one boycotting the club field day either.... It has been

chosen
solely by him to be placed at one of the high schools out in the county

(as
opposed to the city) where there is little traffic on the weekends

(passing
by the school that is).


Let me guess. He's an Extra?


Nope, but license class has nothing to do with it.....



Field Day should be at least 50% PROMOTIONAL as well as 50% emergency
simulation. Since it is not an actual emergency simulation since we all
clearly know when it is going to be, AND of course get to chose where we

set
up, just how does that qualify as emergency planning/communications.

Yes
there is the PREPLANNING but on our fire department we dont get to know

when
our next medical call or car accident or house fire is, we just respond

and
deal with it as best as we can.


Should be points for real emergency locations rather than setting up
at KOA.


Well, we can speculate as to "where" a potential emergency will happen till
the cows come home. The issue I had at hand was merely the choice of
location.... its SO buried from the general public, the PR value was not
worth a damn for our FD.


In a real emergency, we may be required to set up in an area less that

to be
desired, such as a parking lot. Or an open field without those natural
antenna supports..... Also, we would not normally know when that

emergency
would occur.......


Hmmmm.


Yeah.... its not like you can plan for when your house will burn down or you
get into a bad wreck, or whatever.




Maybe, at least if it was changed to where we DO know the weekend it is
gonna be, BUT each countie's EC/RO or emergency services director

decides
the location??? I still believe that the PR value of Field Day far
outwieghs any other aspect of field day.


Elevate this idea to ARRL. County EC selects operating locations.
Keeps secret. Makes the assignment 2 hours before test starts.


The only glitch I could see there, is obviously for counties without an EC.
Someone else would have to be qualified to choose then...... Not sure who,
but I am sure someone could figure that one out.

Extra points, of course.


If that plan is followed, of course.

Ryan KC8PMX




  #10   Report Post  
Old June 26th 04, 03:10 AM
KØHB
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Radio Amateur KC2HMZ" wrote in message
news

Field Day is next weekend. Anybody in the group here have plans?


Look for W0EF 2A MN and K0RT 7A MN







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