"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , Robert Casey
writes:

Hams - old and new - didn't change the exam procedures. Neither did
ARRL, NCI, NCVEC or any other ham group. FCC did, because it saved
them resources.

We aren't going to a system other than multiple-choice
published-Q&A-pool exams in the foreseeable future. Just not gonna
happen.

ANd then there's the question of what knowledge should be expected
from
applicants anyway. Does it really require more knowledge and skill to
operate on 14.167 vs 14.344?

More spectrum is simply the reward system in use. It was chosen in
large
part because it's easy to enforce.

Not only was it easy to enforce but it was selected because it was a
desireable enough reward that people would put in the training to get it.

Most rewards in the real world have little relationship to the work
requested. You see it in the home too. Kid asks, "Dad can I borrow the
car?" Parent replies, "After you mow the front & back lawn and run the
edger." There is absolutely no relationship between the two activities.

Actually, there is a relationship - or connection might be a better word.


Connection would be the better term I think since the activities are
unrelated in what they are.

You're right that driving a car doesn't require lawn-mowing skills or
accomplishments.

But in the case cited above, Kid is part of the family. In order to use
the
family's resources (the car, which Parents bought and paid for) Kid has to
contribute something - in the cited case, the lawn care. The relationship
between the car use and the lawn care is one of responsibility and being
part
of a group.


Excellent. We can apply that similar logic to amateur radio requirements.
The spectrum is a public resource. The prospective ham needs to demonstrate
that he has the potential to be a contributor. This is accomplished by the
testing process. The connection is then similar: demonstrating the
potential for responsibility and being part of a larger group. Notice that
I tag it as potential since there will always be a few who are willing to
put in the effort but then end up being problems.

Have you ever seen a family where the kids are given everything they want
but
not required to contribute anything? Ever see what sort of adults those
kids
become?

73 de Jim, N2EY



The kid gets a highly desired reward for work that he/she probably
doesn't
care to do but does it anyway to get the reward.


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Excellent. We can apply that similar logic to amateur radio requirements.
The spectrum is a public resource. The prospective ham needs to demonstrate
that he has the potential to be a contributor.

Morsemanship left the "public resource" zone a long time ago for
all the other radio services.

You, and all other morsepersons, seem to think that amateur radio
is all concerned with morse code skills. That's hardly in any "public
interest" except to that tiny slice of the "public" that worships at
the Church of St. Hiram.

You and all the other morsepersons are Believers in that "church."

This is accomplished by the
testing process. The connection is then similar: demonstrating the
potential for responsibility and being part of a larger group.

Becoming a part of a slightly larger group of morse code users.

ONLY in amateur radio.

Hundreds of thousands of others have "demonstrated their
'potential' for responsibility...and DEMONSTRATED that very
responsibility" in the military and/or commercial radio...WITHOUT
having to do that testing for morse code cognition.

As one of that group, I don't feel chastened by those spankaroony
words from a self-styled "parent" who was into such responsibility
beginning a half century ago.

Notice that
I tag it as potential since there will always be a few who are willing to
put in the effort but then end up being problems.

Notice: Mama Dee wants to play "parent" again, thinking that all
others not thinking as she does are "children." Tsk, tsk.

Poor Dee. Still on that self-elevated elitist pedestal again, trying
to spank others for not thinking properly. :-)

LHA / WMD

In article , "Dee D. Flint"
writes:

Most rewards in the real world have little relationship to the work
requested. You see it in the home too. Kid asks, "Dad can I borrow the
car?" Parent replies, "After you mow the front & back lawn and run the
edger." There is absolutely no relationship between the two activities.

Actually, there is a relationship - or connection might be a better word.

Connection would be the better term I think since the activities are
unrelated in what they are.

OK

You're right that driving a car doesn't require lawn-mowing skills or
accomplishments.

But in the case cited above, Kid is part of the family. In order to use
the
family's resources (the car, which Parents bought and paid for) Kid has to
contribute something - in the cited case, the lawn care. The relationship
between the car use and the lawn care is one of responsibility and being
part of a group.

Excellent. We can apply that similar logic to amateur radio requirements.
The spectrum is a public resource. The prospective ham needs to demonstrate
that he has the potential to be a contributor.

And also the needed knowledge.

This is accomplished by the
testing process. The connection is then similar: demonstrating the
potential for responsibility and being part of a larger group. Notice that
I tag it as potential since there will always be a few who are willing to
put in the effort but then end up being problems.

It's not about putting in the effort but about demonstrating the requisite
knowledge. And said knowledge will include things that may not involve areas
the potential ham is interested in, but are required nonetheless because they
are part of the knowledge base of a radio amateur.

Now some folks say "I'm a professional/EE/technician" as if that somehow
exempts them from having to pass certain tests. But it doesn't work that way,
nor should it. If someone from outside amateur radio is truly qualified, the
tests are no big deal.

Have you ever seen a family where the kids are given everything they want
but not required to contribute anything? Ever see what sort of adults those
kids become?

The kid gets a highly desired reward for work that he/she probably
doesn't care to do but does it anyway to get the reward.

The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?


That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 7/17/2004 10:32 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?


That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee. Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications". His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to Amateur
Radio policy?

When Lennie discusses matters of technical interest I sit up and pay
attention...but that's ALL people like him CAN talk about.

I know people like him in my professional life too...people who can
recite the textbooks and history annals inside and out...but don't have a valid
clue as to HOW to apply what they know. People like that are dangerous.

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Stevie
Stalker, Exxtra Ethnic Cleanser who swallowed his own Fleet Kit) writes:

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 7/17/2004 10:32 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?

That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

[introduction to another hate-filled obsessive need to defame
another...]

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee.

"SOME?" Like since 1953? Like since 1956?

What has nursie done in that other "SOME" of radio? Answrer:
Nottadamnthing. :-)

Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications".

WRONG. Use Rev. Jim's Time Mashine and go back to 1994.
Some earth-shaking news awaits you, nursie.

His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

MOS 281.6 - Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Service
Supervisor plus brevet MOSs of Fixed Station Transmitter
Operations and Service, Carrier Systems Operations and
Service. [the "point-6" in that old MOS numbering is the
indicator of supervisory duties which I had as an E-5 S/Sgt]
1953 to 1956. "Three up and one down" after just 2 1/2
years. Earned.

"Practical avionics" includes airborne radar (both military and
civilian), airborne radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME,
VOR, Localizer, Glideslope, and Marker Beacon) plus several
missle systems which few will know about, such as the old
Hughes Aircraft "Falcon" series or "Maverick." That at, in
chronological order, Ramo-Wooldridge (the "R" and "W" of
TRW now), Micro-Radionics Inc., Van Nuys, CA, EOS
[Electro-Optical Systems] a division of Xerox, Pasadena, CA
(mostly spacecraft stuff), RCA Corporation EASD (Electro-
magnetic and Aviation Systems Division), Van Nuys, CA,
Hughes Aircraft Missle Division (Hughes for the 2nd time,
this at the same buildings once leased by R-W), Canoga
Park, CA, and Teledyne Electronics, Newbury Park, CA
[designers and manufacturers of military transponders, what
civilians call "IFF"]. Wanna talk how that marvelous VOR
works? No problem...old NARCO box or an RCA 3 1/2"
instrument package that has it all...Nav and Com, with
MB and LOC and GS all packed in behind the OBS.
Wanna talk ground station VOR or TACAN? No problem
there, either. Wanna talk on-the-air while airborne? No
problem, done that too and not just with some UNICOM at
a grass field. More like the Western Airlines maintenance
facility at LAX.

BTW, oh great and ignorant bird of the radio universe, the
Army didn't have a "message center" at ADA. Other Army
message centers fed it and were fed in turn...ADA kept the
radio circuits working. They still do that as they did at Fort
Irwin in 1989 for regimental level field radio (quite a bit different
than 35 years prior). No manual telegraphy in the 50s, not in
the 80s, the 90s, or this new millennium.

Sunnuvagun! Who would a thought it? No CW! :-)

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur Radio policy?

Yes, why trust the FCC to regulate amateur radio? None at the
FCC need have ham licenses to do that. Not even the FDA needs
ham licenses and they stamp the hams. Too.

Riiiiiight...keep the beepers in charge of hum raddio...those mighty
macho morsemen keeping the airwaves pristine with the musick of
morse as they did in the old, old days. Archaic Radio Service, the
ARS of yeasteryear! [all rise...]

When Lennie discusses matters of technical interest I sit up and pay
attention...but that's ALL people like him CAN talk about.

As Luke said to Obi Wan Kenobi, "Force off, Obi!"

Your NF off! [Noise Figure, that is...wayyyyy too high...]

I know people like him in my professional life too...people who can
recite the textbooks and history annals inside and out...but don't have a
valid
clue as to HOW to apply what they know. People like that are dangerous.

Oh, my, the mighty macho morseman crowns hisself King of the
Karing once again. Real MDs who've gone through the rigors of
med school and internship (and having to listen to know-it-all
nursies try to tell them what to do) "don't know enough to apply!"
Oh, my, TN state should have given him a MD to put behind his
name? [yes, if it means "Morose Dysfunctional"]

When the chips are down, two things happen with nursie: First,
he don't know one chip from another or how they are supposed to
work; two, his Mouth will get working and his pudgy fingers will
type out all kinds of schmucky nastygrams in the newsgrope
(mouth has to snarl and mutter as he shouts via the keyboard).

Want radio OPERATING? Sure. No problem. Done it from
land, from water, from a cockpit while aloft. Want space comms?
Sorry, you can't do that yet, NASA can't afford to send Morose
Dysfunctionals off on expensive spaceships. I'll just stand in the
JPL mission control room (as I've done for a few missions) and
watch the live data come in from Mars or wherever. That be happy.
I've "worked" a station ON the moon. Stalker Stevie never did.

Goldstone more fun place, though it be hot, hot. Clear Lake fun
for a visit but I wouldn't wanna work there ("failure no option" in
the old days, not quite so now). Wanna get up at Oh-Dark-
Thirty to prep telemetry for an avionics package on a fast mover?
Done that too. Edwards. China Lake. Kern County Airport #7
(Mojave). Phooey, like my mornings quiet and late. Who needs
all that sweat to push envelopes? :-) Given my sweat, pushed an
envelope a couple times, sweated in the labs producing goodness
and newness, seen it work.

Ham radio would be fun. But, all the "intelligent people" wanna
recreate the hoary halcion days of the 1920s and 1930s. Phooey
on them and Morris Goad. "Intelligent people" love spark Tx and
Galena Rx? They be nutso, whacked-out. Keep on recreating
Civil War of a kind, the ones between the beepers and talkers.

Beep, beep.

LHA / WMD

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

[introduction to another hate-filled obsessive need to defame
another...]

By whom?

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee.

"SOME?" Like since 1953? Like since 1956?

Living in the past again, I see....

What has nursie done in that other "SOME" of radio? Answrer:
Nottadamnthing. :-)

Then he shouldn't be making the rules for it...right?

Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications".

WRONG. Use Rev. Jim's Time Mashine and go back to 1994.
Some earth-shaking news awaits you, nursie.

What did you do back then, Len? And why are you still living in the past? 1994
was TEN YEARS AGO ;-) ;-)

His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and
his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How is it wrong?

MOS 281.6 - Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Service
Supervisor plus brevet MOSs of Fixed Station Transmitter
Operations and Service, Carrier Systems Operations and
Service. [the "point-6" in that old MOS numbering is the
indicator of supervisory duties which I had as an E-5 S/Sgt]
1953 to 1956. "Three up and one down" after just 2 1/2
years. Earned.

So? That was your *job*, wasn't it, Len?

What's interesting is that you don;t mention that there were more than 700
*other* people at ADA when you were there...

"Practical avionics" includes airborne radar (both military and
civilian), airborne radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME,
VOR, Localizer, Glideslope, and Marker Beacon) plus several
missle systems which few will know about, such as the old
Hughes Aircraft "Falcon" series or "Maverick." That at, in
chronological order, Ramo-Wooldridge (the "R" and "W" of
TRW now), Micro-Radionics Inc., Van Nuys, CA, EOS
[Electro-Optical Systems] a division of Xerox, Pasadena, CA
(mostly spacecraft stuff), RCA Corporation EASD (Electro-
magnetic and Aviation Systems Division), Van Nuys, CA,
Hughes Aircraft Missle Division (Hughes for the 2nd time,
this at the same buildings once leased by R-W), Canoga
Park, CA, and Teledyne Electronics, Newbury Park, CA
[designers and manufacturers of military transponders, what
civilians call "IFF"]. Wanna talk how that marvelous VOR
works? No problem...old NARCO box or an RCA 3 1/2"
instrument package that has it all...Nav and Com, with
MB and LOC and GS all packed in behind the OBS.
Wanna talk ground station VOR or TACAN? No problem
there, either. Wanna talk on-the-air while airborne? No
problem, done that too and not just with some UNICOM at
a grass field. More like the Western Airlines maintenance
facility at LAX.

So...did you work at all those places or just talk about them? Were you in sole
charge, or part of a much larger team?

BTW, oh great and ignorant bird of the radio universe, the
Army didn't have a "message center" at ADA. Other Army
message centers fed it and were fed in turn...ADA kept the
radio circuits working.

With over 700 people, when you were there. Yet you don't mention the team, just
yourself. Interesting, very interesting.

They still do that as they did at Fort
Irwin in 1989 for regimental level field radio (quite a bit different
than 35 years prior).

And they manage quite well without you, Len.

No manual telegraphy in the 50s, not in
the 80s, the 90s, or this new millennium.

So?

Sunnuvagun! Who would a thought it? No CW! :-)

How is that relevant to amateur radio?

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur Radio policy?

Yes, why trust the FCC to regulate amateur radio?

You're not the FCC, Len.

None at the
FCC need have ham licenses to do that.

Actually, there are a few hams at FCC, making the rules and recommendations
about those rules.

More importantly, those folks are professional regulatory people. You're not.

Riiiiiight...keep the beepers in charge of hum raddio...those mighty
macho morsemen keeping the airwaves pristine with the musick of
morse as they did in the old, old days. Archaic Radio Service, the
ARS of yeasteryear! [all rise...]

Sounds like you are jealous, Len.


Want radio OPERATING? Sure. No problem. Done it from
land, from water, from a cockpit while aloft. Want space comms?
Sorry, you can't do that yet, NASA can't afford to send Morose
Dysfunctionals off on expensive spaceships. I'll just stand in the
JPL mission control room (as I've done for a few missions) and
watch the live data come in from Mars or wherever. That be happy.
I've "worked" a station ON the moon. Stalker Stevie never did.

Just a spectator.

Goldstone more fun place, though it be hot, hot. Clear Lake fun
for a visit but I wouldn't wanna work there ("failure no option" in
the old days, not quite so now). Wanna get up at Oh-Dark-
Thirty to prep telemetry for an avionics package on a fast mover?
Done that too. Edwards. China Lake. Kern County Airport #7
(Mojave). Phooey, like my mornings quiet and late. Who needs
all that sweat to push envelopes? :-) Given my sweat, pushed an
envelope a couple times, sweated in the labs producing goodness
and newness, seen it work.

Just another groundpounder. Heck, even I can use the lingo. But you keep
reliving the past, leaving out the important details.

Ham radio would be fun.

It is. But you're just a spectator there, too.

What really burns your bacon is that even with all your alleged professional
experience, the FCC won't act on your recommendations and those of us who
actually *are* radio amateurs won't bow down to you. And despite all your
verbiage, you can't get some of us to respond in kind to your name calling and
other word games.

But, all the "intelligent people" wanna
recreate the hoary halcion days of the 1920s and 1930s.

How, Len?

By requiring a simple one-time 5 wpm code test?

Methinks you dost protest too much.

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

By whom?

What "whom?"

Living in the past again, I see....

No. For tomorrow. Been in the past.


Then he shouldn't be making the rules for it...right?

RIGHT! :-)


What did you do back then, Len?

Already told you.

And why are you still living in the past?
1994 was TEN YEARS AGO ;-) ;-)

How perceptive! 2004 - 1994 = 10! Marvelous.

You didn't have to take off your shoes to prove it! :-)


How is it wrong?

Anything said against your opinions is automatically WRONG.

Ho hum.

MOS 281.6 - Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Service
Supervisor plus brevet MOSs of Fixed Station Transmitter
Operations and Service, Carrier Systems Operations and
Service. [the "point-6" in that old MOS numbering is the
indicator of supervisory duties which I had as an E-5 S/Sgt]
1953 to 1956. "Three up and one down" after just 2 1/2
years. Earned.

So? That was your *job*, wasn't it, Len?

Assignment. [get with military nomenclature...]

What's interesting is that you don;t mention that there were more than 700
*other* people at ADA when you were there...

Yes, at Transmitters (Camp Tomlinson), Receivers (Camp Owada),
Control, Tape Relay at Chuo Kogyo (later inside North Camp Drake).

Eugene Rosenbaum was one of the Transmitters assignees. I've
mentioned him before, also SFC Don Ross (Maintenance NCO,
had all commercial and top ham licenses of that time), Capt William
P. Boss, OIC (Officer In Charge) of Transmitters (ham license).
Gene has a ham license, lives in Long Island, NY, he and wife just
got back from a European tour. I don't mention the photographic
detachment either (for about two decades later the photo people
were also categorized as part of Signal Corps). Photo wasn't
involved in radio communications.


So...did you work at all those places or just talk about them?

Yes, I worked IN and AT all those things. Are you the new
security chief of the personnel department? Feel free to write all
those companies and check up. Here's a bird...I flip it to you...

Were you in sole charge, or part of a much larger team?

I never worked in a shoe company, "in charge of soles."

Pbthbthbth...

What company does Rev. Jim work for? Choo-choo factory?

With over 700 people, when you were there. Yet you don't mention the team,
just yourself. Interesting, very interesting.

About 700 in the Batalion at four different sites and with three different
billets. I've RE-mentioned the people I mentioned before; see above.
I've also mentioned Jim Brendage, a civilian engineer (DAC) whom I've
been in contact with much later (retired, lives in CA) plus some USAF
people. USAF took over responsibility of the ADA facilities in 1963 as
part of Army downsizing in Central Honshu. I could mention lots of
others but they don't have the beloved ham license yet continued to
operate and maintain facilities without it or any need for morsemanship.

I find it supremely interesting that you don't know a damn thing about
HF communications other than ham radio and what you are spoon-
fed by QST and the league.

And they manage quite well without you, Len.

That's the way the system is organized. It works.

So?

So sue if ya don't like it. :-)

How is that relevant to amateur radio?

Nothing amateurish about it.

You're not the FCC, Len.

You are not the FCC either. So?

Actually, there are a few hams at FCC, making the rules and recommendations
about those rules.

Not required in their Statement of Work. Didn't you read yours?

More importantly, those folks are professional regulatory people. You're not.

You sure as hell aren't a "professional regulator!" You're just a
wanna-be regulator.

Riiiiiight...keep the beepers in charge of hum raddio...those mighty
macho morsemen keeping the airwaves pristine with the musick of
morse as they did in the old, old days. Archaic Radio Service, the
ARS of yeasteryear! [all rise...]

Sounds like you are jealous, Len.

Sounds like you've got NO sense of humor when you be tweaked.

Poor baby. A wanna-be regulator and can't control your steam.

Just a spectator.

No. One of a team, several teams. Doing work. Making things
happen. Making a bit of money, too.

Just another groundpounder. Heck, even I can use the lingo. But you keep
reliving the past, leaving out the important details.

"Groundpounder?" That's a military term. You never served.

Try not to be a wanna-be sojer too. Not nice.

Let's see...a fella who doesn't know squat about military comms
comes in here all filthy-languaged with sexual inuendo and tells
all "I never did what I said I did." I then describe (again) what I did
and where, both in military work and civilian work and he still calls
it wrong. Now you come in here thinking "you speak the lingo" and
say it was all no good, "living in the past." You don't know squat
about aerospace, Spaceman Spiff. [your cartoon quit a decade
ago]

It is. But you're just a spectator there, too.

Yes. So?

You seem to have lost touch with the issue in here...the creation
reason issue being the retention or elimination of the code test for
an amateur radio license.

You keep trying to misdirect these non-discussions into some
weird "desire" for a ham ticket I'm supposed to have. Such as:

What really burns your bacon is that even with all your alleged professional
experience, the FCC won't act on your recommendations and those of us who
actually *are* radio amateurs won't bow down to you.

INCORRECT. WRONG.

I know the process of legislation and rule-making and accept that.
Everyone gets a chance to comment at the FCC and the FCC has
the near-final regulatory say on U.S. civil radio (courts can rule on
that later but that does not happen often). All must live with the
decisions on civil radio matters, even if they are not individually
acceptible.

That's how it is in a democratic-principle government.

Your allegation of some kind of weird "personal vendetta" is just
that, a weird thing. You can't abide the thought of losing the
morse code test so, therefore, you think that all those trying to
eliminate it are abnormal in some regard. Not so.

What IS abnormal is the stridency of the PCTA in the maintenance
of a code test for a ham license without any regard to the changing
times or the fact that morse code manual telegraphy is going down
the tubes in all of radio communications except amateurism.

You cannot justify modern-day rules based on antiquated reasons
which no longer apply. But, you met those antiquated rules and now
insist that all newcomers meet those rules. Why? I don't know why
you are still so adamant about it, can only speculate.

And despite all your
verbiage, you can't get some of us to respond in kind to your name calling
and other word games.

TS. Someone wants to play nasty with me, I play nastier. No problem.

Been there, done that, lots of times.

How, Len?

How yourself, Kimosabe. Ugh.

By requiring a simple one-time 5 wpm code test?

By requiring ANY rate code test.

You can NO longer justify its existance by "treaty."

You can NO longer justify its usefulness by anything but tired,
trite, old phrases that ceased being applicable decades ago.

All you or your PCTA ilk can "justify" is all the denigration and
name-calling and general negative inuendo you put on those that
want to eliminate the code test. Not nice. But, you "justify" it
by all kinds of tricks and message subject misdirections, by
calling yourself "superior" to others because you met old
standards.

No sweat to me. If the code test stays, then I hang in there
trying to get rid of it. If the code test is eliminated, then I be
satisfied.







Methinks you dost protest too much.

Don't you mean "doth" mistah spear-shaker? :-)

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: PAMNO (N2EY)
Date: 7/18/2004 10:42 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

What has nursie done in that other "SOME" of radio? Answrer:
Nottadamnthing. :-)

Then he shouldn't be making the rules for it...right?

I don't!

And I see Lennie is making typos! Must be ANGRY ANGRY ANGRY ! ! ! =)

Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications".

WRONG. Use Rev. Jim's Time Mashine and go back to 1994.
Some earth-shaking news awaits you, nursie.

What did you do back then, Len? And why are you still living in the past?
1994
was TEN YEARS AGO ;-) ;-)

And even MORE typos. He's REALLY mad!

His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and
his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

How is it wrong?

It's not. At least according to his very own words.

Maybe he finally joined that REACT group...?!?!

MOS 281.6 - Microwave Radio Relay Operations and Service
Supervisor plus brevet MOSs of Fixed Station Transmitter
Operations and Service, Carrier Systems Operations and
Service. [the "point-6" in that old MOS numbering is the
indicator of supervisory duties which I had as an E-5 S/Sgt]
1953 to 1956. "Three up and one down" after just 2 1/2
years. Earned.

So? That was your *job*, wasn't it, Len?

NOW he was a STAFF SERGEANT!

For the last eight years he's been insisting he was "only" a Sergeant.

Guess he figured after the battlefield sacrifices he made and all the
fights he's fought in this forum he deserved a promotion.

Congratulations, Lennie!

What's interesting is that you don;t mention that there were more than 700
*other* people at ADA when you were there...

Of course not!

HE handles ALL one-point-two million of those messages! Him! Alone!

"Practical avionics" includes airborne radar (both military and
civilian), airborne radionavigation equipment (TACAN, DME,
VOR, Localizer, Glideslope, and Marker Beacon) plus several
missle systems which few will know about, such as the old
Hughes Aircraft "Falcon" series or "Maverick." That at, in
chronological order, Ramo-Wooldridge (the "R" and "W" of
TRW now), Micro-Radionics Inc., Van Nuys, CA, EOS
[Electro-Optical Systems] a division of Xerox, Pasadena, CA
(mostly spacecraft stuff), RCA Corporation EASD (Electro-
magnetic and Aviation Systems Division), Van Nuys, CA,
Hughes Aircraft Missle Division (Hughes for the 2nd time,
this at the same buildings once leased by R-W), Canoga
Park, CA, and Teledyne Electronics, Newbury Park, CA
[designers and manufacturers of military transponders, what
civilians call "IFF"]. Wanna talk how that marvelous VOR
works? No problem...old NARCO box or an RCA 3 1/2"
instrument package that has it all...Nav and Com, with
MB and LOC and GS all packed in behind the OBS.
Wanna talk ground station VOR or TACAN? No problem
there, either. Wanna talk on-the-air while airborne? No
problem, done that too and not just with some UNICOM at
a grass field. More like the Western Airlines maintenance
facility at LAX.

So...did you work at all those places or just talk about them? Were you in
sole
charge, or part of a much larger team?

Hey...just how many fl;oors can a janitor clean at once anyway, Jim...?!?!
He HAD to have had help!

As for experience in aeronautical navigation he's pretty well shown us what
he "knows" in here.

BTW, oh great and ignorant bird of the radio universe, the
Army didn't have a "message center" at ADA. Other Army
message centers fed it and were fed in turn...ADA kept the
radio circuits working.

With over 700 people, when you were there. Yet you don't mention the team,
just
yourself. Interesting, very interesting.

Not "interesting", Jim...just status quo....

They still do that as they did at Fort
Irwin in 1989 for regimental level field radio (quite a bit different
than 35 years prior).

And they manage quite well without you, Len.

No manual telegraphy in the 50s, not in
the 80s, the 90s, or this new millennium.

So?

Sunnuvagun! Who would a thought it? No CW! :-)

How is that relevant to amateur radio?

It's not.

But it's all the Putz has to hold on to, so he'll keep reciting it over
and over and over and.....

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur Radio policy?

Yes, why trust the FCC to regulate amateur radio?

You're not the FCC, Len.

Uh oh! Don't tell HIM that!

None at the
FCC need have ham licenses to do that.

Actually, there are a few hams at FCC, making the rules and recommendations
about those rules.

More importantly, those folks are professional regulatory people. You're not.


Riiiiiight...keep the beepers in charge of hum raddio...those mighty
macho morsemen keeping the airwaves pristine with the musick of
morse as they did in the old, old days. Archaic Radio Service, the
ARS of yeasteryear! [all rise...]

Sounds like you are jealous, Len.

More foolish than jealous.

Want radio OPERATING? Sure. No problem. Done it from
land, from water, from a cockpit while aloft. Want space comms?
Sorry, you can't do that yet, NASA can't afford to send Morose
Dysfunctionals off on expensive spaceships. I'll just stand in the
JPL mission control room (as I've done for a few missions) and
watch the live data come in from Mars or wherever. That be happy.
I've "worked" a station ON the moon. Stalker Stevie never did.

Just a spectator.

Naaaaaaah...I just bounced signals off the moon. Lennie hasn't done that.

Goldstone more fun place, though it be hot, hot. Clear Lake fun
for a visit but I wouldn't wanna work there ("failure no option" in
the old days, not quite so now). Wanna get up at Oh-Dark-
Thirty to prep telemetry for an avionics package on a fast mover?
Done that too. Edwards. China Lake. Kern County Airport #7
(Mojave). Phooey, like my mornings quiet and late. Who needs
all that sweat to push envelopes? :-) Given my sweat, pushed an
envelope a couple times, sweated in the labs producing goodness
and newness, seen it work.

Just another groundpounder. Heck, even I can use the lingo. But you keep
reliving the past, leaving out the important details.

I am sure that Lennie pushed a LOT of envelopes...That broom was able to
collect a lot of debris.

Ham radio would be fun.

It is. But you're just a spectator there, too.

It IS fun!

What really burns your bacon is that even with all your alleged professional
experience, the FCC won't act on your recommendations and those of us who
actually *are* radio amateurs won't bow down to you. And despite all your
verbiage, you can't get some of us to respond in kind to your name calling
and
other word games.

Bingo!

But, all the "intelligent people" wanna
recreate the hoary halcion days of the 1920s and 1930s.

How, Len?

By requiring a simple one-time 5 wpm code test?

Methinks you dost protest too much.

Methinks he is still marking time in 1953, defending the ramparts of ADA
against any idea of anyone other than him knowing how a radio works.

Sucks to be Lennie!

73

Steve, K4YZ

In article , (Steve
Robeson K4CAP) writes:

Subject: FCC Morse testing at 16 and 20 WPM
From: "Dee D. Flint"
Date: 7/17/2004 10:32 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


"N2EY" wrote in message
...
[snip]
The important question is, who is the best judge of what the requirements
should be? The newcomer or the experienced ham?


That is the very crux of the problem. Somehow too many have lost sight of
the fact that those with experience should be the ones to define the
requirements.

But it also needs to be the RIGHT experience.

Lennie the Liar has a lot of "experience" in SOME radio matters, but
zero-point-zero percent of it is as an Amateur Radio licensee. Also
zero-point-zero experience in "emergency communications". His "traffic
handling" experience was as a radio clerk in the Army in the FIFTIES, and his
experience in practical avionics goes back to his days as a STUDENT (never
licensed) pilot back when Lear organ-grinder radios were the "state of the
art".

Would you want HIM making binding decisions for you in regards to
Amateur
Radio policy?

When Lennie discusses matters of technical interest I sit up and pay
attention...but that's ALL people like him CAN talk about.

I know people like him in my professional life too...people who can
recite the textbooks and history annals inside and out...but don't have a
valid
clue as to HOW to apply what they know. People like that are dangerous.

73

Steve, K4YZ