N2EY wrote:
In article , Dave Heil
writes:


Mike Coslo wrote:

N2EY wrote:


In article ,

(Steve

Robeson K4CAP) writes:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/17/2004 8:11 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:


Steve Robeson K4CAP wrote:


Subject: Who peed in the pool
From: Mike Coslo
Date: 9/16/2004 6:49 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

That's what get's his goat. The really sad thing is that Lennie COULD
be in that same boat...but just hasn't got the guts to be anything other

than

what he is now...bitter and angry.


What makes you think Len is bitter or angry? I don't see that at all.



Hard to say, Jim. I don't think posts such as his come from a sense
of being in harmony with the world, tho'!

Len wants to change amateur radio's regs. Len isn't a ham but has
proclaimed a decades long interest in amateur radio. Len has posted
here for years yet he hasn't done anything about actually obtaining an
amateur license. Len says he doesn't want an amateur license.


All true. Now - has Len ever said he wanted to make amateur radio better?

Well, when you put it that way - no he hasn't.

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.


Think about why someone would behave like that.

I think he wants that ham ticket but I think he'd rather die than (I
love this now famous line) "jump through hoops" to obtain one. If that
is his wish, I'm sure he'll have it his way.


I don't think Len wants a ham license at all.

Agreed 100 percent.


Yeah, I think Leonard's world is empty. He doesn't achieve the respect
here which he feels is his due as a former PROFESSIONAL.


Perhaps.

Or maybe he gets a form of pleasure from behaving the way he does here.

Haven't you known people who got great pleasure ruining others' fun? People who
could take *any* activity and tell you it was bad for you, ruined the
environment/economy/society etc., and was a waste of time?

You've probably been blessed, as I have, to know people of all ages who are
full of life, enthusiasm and joy. These people give off positive energy -
they're just plain fun to be around, even when there's hard work to be done.

Then there are folks who are just the opposite. They're full of criticism,
anger, nastiness and tearing-down of others. Sometimes they try to mask it with
"humor", but the mask doesn't always work. They give off negative energy.



Which would you rather be around?

Think of this: Suppose we all were in the same area, and wanted to do a Field
Day effort. Who would you rather have as leader, given only these choices:
Mike, Steve, Brian or Len?


I recall a series on "This Old House" some years back where the project
involved building a new timber-frame structure. The actual timer framing was
done by a team of workers led by a master timber framer. Most of the workers
were amateurs who had *paid* to be there, learning something about the art and
being part of the experience.

Now in case you didn't know, timber framing is a very old craft. Modern timber
framing is a mixture of very old and very new techniques. For example, the
plans are CADD generated and the timbers come from a modern sawmill. But the
finish cuts are all done by hand, with very sharp chisels that are in the
personal care of each worker. Modern comealongs and slings are used, but the
real work of timber frame erection is done by manual labor.

The team of timber framers worked for a week to cut all the joints and assemble
all the bents. On Raising Day, everyone involved in the project worked from
dawn-till-done, and the whole frame was raised before the sun went down. And a
small evergreen tree was lashed to the top of the last bent, a tradition that
is still honored by ironworkers raising skyscrapers.

So *that's" what that is about! Never know where you are going to learn
something.

The point of this long story is that the master framer led his team with pure
positive energy. Everyone involved wanted to be there, amateur and professional
alike, and it wasn't just a job but an experience.

Now of course somebody will point out that modern methods could cut the timber
frames in a fraction of the time, and the whole thing put up by a small crew
with a crane. But it wouldn't be the same, would it?

It is the joy of the shared task. Not all that many people know about
it, or don't know that they *do* know it, but it is available to all. A
lot of engineers know about it, and certainly soldiers that do the
fighting know a version of it. Portions of it can be awfully difficult,
but there is the moment when you stand back, and you think "WOW, look
what WE did!" Beats beer served by Hiedi Klum... sometimes! ;^)

I enjoy the shared labor a lot. For some reason there are people that
don't like me because of that. Perhaps your above mentioned description,
fits... 8^)

For all his toil in presenting his long, increasingly eccentric
material, he has won over a single ardent admirer, "William". I'm sure
he's proud.


The question is - proud of what?

Darned if I know...

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

Now - has Len ever said he wanted to make amateur radio better?

Well, when you put it that way - no he hasn't.

Ayup.

He takes swipes at the ARRL, hams who would like to see morse continue,
hams who use morse and hams who prefer morse to other modes. He
ridicules the traditions of amateur radio. He belittles the activities
of hams who participate in emergency communications and traffic
handling.

Think about why someone would behave like that.

I think he wants that ham ticket but I think he'd rather die than (I
love this now famous line) "jump through hoops" to obtain one. If that
is his wish, I'm sure he'll have it his way.

I don't think Len wants a ham license at all.

Agreed 100 percent.

Now put all that together and see what conclusion comes out about what Len
*really* wants.

Yeah, I think Leonard's world is empty. He doesn't achieve the respect
here which he feels is his due as a former PROFESSIONAL.

Perhaps.

Or maybe he gets a form of pleasure from behaving the way he does here.

Haven't you known people who got great pleasure ruining others' fun? People
who
could take *any* activity and tell you it was bad for you, ruined the
environment/economy/society etc., and was a waste of time?

You've probably been blessed, as I have, to know people of all ages who are
full of life, enthusiasm and joy. These people give off positive energy -
they're just plain fun to be around, even when there's hard work to be
done.

Then there are folks who are just the opposite. They're full of criticism,
anger, nastiness and tearing-down of others. Sometimes they try to mask it
with
"humor", but the mask doesn't always work. They give off negative energy.

Which would you rather be around?

Hmmm?

And let me add: which would you rather *be*?

Think of this: Suppose we all were in the same area, and wanted to do a
Field
Day effort. Who would you rather have as leader, given only these choices:
Mike, Steve, Brian or Len?

One guess who'd I'd pick for the leader out of those four.

I recall a series on "This Old House" some years back where the project
involved building a new timber-frame structure. The actual timer framing
was
done by a team of workers led by a master timber framer. Most of the
workers
were amateurs who had *paid* to be there, learning something about the art
and being part of the experience.

Now in case you didn't know, timber framing is a very old craft. Modern
timber
framing is a mixture of very old and very new techniques. For example, the
plans are CADD generated and the timbers come from a modern sawmill. But
the
finish cuts are all done by hand, with very sharp chisels that are in the
personal care of each worker. Modern comealongs and slings are used, but
the
real work of timber frame erection is done by manual labor.

btw, they measure-twice-cut-once on everything. And the joints are made with
tolerances no more than 1/32". Never mind that such precision isn't really
necessary structurally and that nobody will see most of the joints up close,
they do it that way because they can, and because it's about care and
craftsmanship, not just tossing up another McMansion.

The team of timber framers worked for a week to cut all the joints and
assemble
all the bents. On Raising Day, everyone involved in the project worked from
dawn-till-done, and the whole frame was raised before the sun went down.
And a
small evergreen tree was lashed to the top of the last bent, a tradition
that is still honored by ironworkers raising skyscrapers.

So *that's" what that is about! Never know where you are going to learn
something.

I don't know how the tradition originated, but it continues to this day.
Perhaps it is a way of acknowledging that living trees gave us the wood to
build the structure. Perhaps it is a symbol of new life, in a new shelter.

Whatever it is, it's a tradition that lives on, despite there being no
structural reason for it.

The point of this long story is that the master framer led his team with
pure
positive energy. Everyone involved wanted to be there, amateur and
professional alike, and it wasn't just a job but an experience.

Now of course somebody will point out that modern methods could cut the
timber
frames in a fraction of the time, and the whole thing put up by a small
crew
with a crane. But it wouldn't be the same, would it?

It is the joy of the shared task.

That's part of it.

Not all that many people know about
it, or don't know that they *do* know it, but it is available to all.

Yes.

But it cannot be bought - it must be earned.

A
lot of engineers know about it, and certainly soldiers that do the
fighting know a version of it. Portions of it can be awfully difficult,
but there is the moment when you stand back, and you think "WOW, look
what WE did!"

Been there, done that. Why do you think my rigs are homebrew?

Beats beer served by Hiedi Klum... sometimes! ;^)

How about if Ms. Klum serves the beer after the last beam is in place? Best of
both worlds!

I enjoy the shared labor a lot.

Me too.

There's another part of it, too: By doing something like that timber-frame, the
workers were connecting with something much bigger than simply cutting some
wood. They became part of a tradition that goes back centuries and yet
continues today. Each worker could sign work they'd done, leaving a part of
themselves with at the site.

They created a home for real people - a family that the workers got to know,
because the family was right there working with them. They became a community
for the time they were there.

The master framer gave a wonderful speech at the beginning of Raising Day. On
that project, they were actually replacing a 150+year-old timber frame
structure that had to come down because of rot in the old wood. He spoke of how
the timber framers of that time had worked, and how the structure had long
outlived those who built it. He noted that the new structure could hopefully
last as long or longer. Most of all, he connected the past, present and future.

For some reason there are people that
don't like me because of that.

Me too!

Perhaps it is because we remind them of things that cannot be bought, nor
acquired easily, yet which are much more worthwhile than those things which
can.

Perhaps it is the fact that, no matter what can be done theoretically, real
things get done because real people actually do them.

Consider the last time you did some sort of project yourself from start to
finish, or with a closely knit team. Compare it with simply paying somebody to
do it for you. Is it the same thing? Why or why not?

Perhaps your above mentioned description,
fits... 8^)

I think so.

For all his toil in presenting his long, increasingly eccentric
material, he has won over a single ardent admirer, "William". I'm sure
he's proud.

The question is - proud of what?

Darned if I know...

And there's two more pieces to the puzzle:

Everyone who worked on that timber frame could walk away proud of what they'd
done. Yet they need not brag about it - all anyone need do is look at the
house. It stands as a testimony to their work, skill, spirit and community.

There is also a big difference between those who imagine, create and build, and
those who hate and destroy. The destroyer needs the creator desperately, but
the creator does not need the destroyer at all. Those who attacked the WTC and
Pentagon on that terrible day in September 2001 could not build the airplanes
or the buildings - they could only destroy them.

Which would you rather be around? And which would you rather be?

73 de Jim, N2EY

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article , Mike Coslo
writes:

It is the joy of the shared task.

That's part of it.

Here's another part that didn't get into the previous post:

In modern industrial society, most of us don't produce "something"
that is lasting and tangible. As in "I built that!" Most people's jobs
are as part of a much larger team, where they perform a specific
limited function.

Of course some people (like us engineers) do get to say "We/I built
that", or in the case of EMT/health care people "We/I saved that
person's life/health/delivered that baby" etc. But most of modern life
is highly specialized and regulated, or limited by time/space/money
considerations. Heck, Americans aren't even cooking as much as they
used to (more and more meals are either eaten in restaurants, are
take-out, or are precooked heat-em-ups).

So it's understandable that many people are attracted to nonvocational
activities where they "do for themselves". Mike's hockey team may
never play at the level of the NHL or even the minor-league pro hockey
teams - but that isn't the point. Veggies grown in a home garden, or
fish you catch yourself may cost more than just buying them in the
supermarket, when you take into account all the costs - but that isn't
the point either.

And even an elaborate ham station may not meet what some people call
"professional standards" - but that isn't the point at all.

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.

William wrote:

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY


But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.

It's all good, Brian! New and old can be appreciated and done at the
same time.

- Mike KB3EIA -

In article ,
(William) writes:

(N2EY) wrote in message
.com...

So when someone compares what we hams do to what "professionals" do,
or says we are "stuck in the past" or "using 1930s standards" - they
really don't get the point at all.

73 de Jim, N2EY

But, but, but...

amateur radio is supposed to have a reputation for innovation.

Perhaps they are "innovating" 1930s standards and practices using
semiconductors! :-)

...the Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society rides again... hi hi.

beep, beep