RadioBanter

RadioBanter (https://www.radiobanter.com/)
-   Policy (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/)
-   -   US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ??? (https://www.radiobanter.com/policy/27731-us-licensing-restructuring-when.html)

N2EY September 27th 04 09:32 PM

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:


I simply tweaked the 100Khz xtal oscillator to get it dead
on against WWV on several freqs and took it from there. The
out-of-the-box Collins PTO . . . .


Straight out of the 1950s ham catalogs bub . . all of it.


Point is, even those who couldn't afford Drake or Collins could get almost as close to a band or subband edge - using '50s technology.


'Nother whole discussion but I'll pass this time.


It's a fact.

So Len's claim of needing "modern frequency synthesizers" is utterly bogus.
Also his claim that it was "all about staking territory" or some such nonsense.
False. Without any facts to back it up.


His blather reminds me of my days out in school yard during recess
arguing with "the guys".


??

It's clear that he doesn't really understand what amateur HF operation is/was
like at all, nor amateur radio economics, nor even what really happened
historically.


OBVIOUSLY!


Agreed.

Quick topic switch:

After 1929 and before 1951, there were *no* subbands-by-license-class
in US amateur radio. There *were* mode limitations, of course.

Until 1968, the only subbands-by-license-class in US amateur radio
were the "Novice bands" and the limits on Techs and Novices on 2
meters. (Techs had only 145-147 for quite a while).

The subbands-by-license-class thing was suggested by numerous (a least
6, but not the ARRL) petitioners in 1964, who saw it as a better
alternative than simply closing off certain bands to Generals and
Conditionals. FCC liked the idea so much it became part of their 1965
incentive licensing plan. Which plan was argued for another year or
two and then became the final 1967-68-69 changes.

. . . the A4. I didn't own or need a synthesized
xcvr "to stay within the bands" until I bought a used Icom 2M mobile
FM rig around 1988.


Yup.

And the only reason that thing was synthesized is that it was cheaper than
buying lots of xtals.


Nah, not today or in 1988 for that matter, there's a bunch more valid
reasons for using current-tech synthesized VHF/UHF FM rigs than just
getting rid of the old xtal packs. It's all in the plethora of tricks
2M mobile rigs do today which go far beyond just their "synthetic"
frequency generation circuitry.


Wasn't talking about today.

Size per watt, (my FT-1500M cranks 50W out of a package about the size
of a couple packs of smokes), computer control, both internally and
computer programmable, memories, the availability of all the PL & DTMF
tones, odd splits, band scanning, wideband receivers, digital
displays, etc.


Agree 100%.

The '70s boat anchor 2M rigs like the Heath 2036 certainly did get rid
of the xtal packs which was their Big Thing but that's about all they
did vs. the xtal controlled rigs of the 1960s.


That was enough. The cost of xtals in those days was enough that once
you got beyond a coupla pairs it was cheaper to get a '2036 or other
synth rig.

Fun fact: The HW-2036 was PLL synthesized. The popular Clegg FM-27B
was heterodyne synthesized. The Clegg's system was crystal intensive,
of course, but electrically quite simple by comparison, and since the
xtal price was part of the rig price you paid up front and were done.

Plus with synthesized VHF/UHF you didn't have to worry about running
out of sockets in the rig when new repeaters got on the air. Or
traveling to an area where different freqs were in use. Or finding an
open simplex spot, being able to listen on the input or transmit on
the output, or a dozen other tricks. Etc.

Point is, the move to frequency synthesis in mainstream ham radio was
driven by VHF FM repeaters and economics. Not by other services and
certainly not by incentive licensing and subbands-by-license class.

Dredge up some of the results of the 1950s FMTs to really drive the
point home.


Back about 1979 I had a BC-348 and BC-221 in good shape. Just for the heck of
it I I tried 'em out in the FMT. Error on each band was better than your 200
Hz.


I'm not talking abt using my boat anchors in FMTs.


Nor I. The example was just to show what could be done with '40s
technology that was available cheap in the '60s and later.

I sed "I could
comfortably transmit CW within 200Hz or subband edge with my Collins
75A4" and know I was legal.


bwaahaahaaa

As in being able to quickly swish within
200 hz of a band edge in the heat of a contest pileup and know I
wasn't out of band.


Yup.

That's a whole different ballgame from taking the
time to carefully diddle a bunch of knobs in a FMT.


Of course.

The proper
comparison in your context would be between the BC-348 without the
BC-221 and the A4 under real operating condx.


HAW! The unaided 348 might be good for 5 kHz on 80 meters on a good
day, warmed up and recently calibrated. I don't want to think about 20
meters...

Or get into a FMT with
the 75S-3B vs. the BC-348/BC-221.


The BC-348/BC-221 would win, unless the S3 had some help beyond its
internal calibrator. That's assuming a good '221 and an op who knows
how to use it. The '348's accuracy isn't part of the equation in an
FMT setup; it's all on the '221. (I prefer the LM - sold my BC-221
years ago. Must be the Navy vintage or something.) After all, the S3
is a receiver, not a freqmeter.

But that's not the issue.

The main point is simply that hams *did not* need
frequency-synthesized rigs to stay within their bands and subbands
back in 1968 - or 1978, or 1988, or 1998.

Or even in 2004.

Another of Len's claims revealed as being unsupported by fact.

Now before somebody gets all excited about 60 meters...

1) It's not a band - it's 5 spot frequencies

2) It wasn't available to hams back in the '60s, or even the '90s.

3) (The biggie) The digital readouts on modern ham rigs are not as
useful as some might think in setting to 60 meter channels because
different frequency description systems are used. Ham SSB gear
universally reads out the suppressed-carrier frequency - been that way
since A4 days. But the channels are specified by their *center*
frequency, not suppressed carrier, so you have to mentally add an
offset to the indicated frequency on a ham rig to be on-channel on 60
meters. How much of an offset? About 1400 Hz - give or take.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY September 27th 04 11:33 PM

In article ,
(Brian Kelly) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,


(always write even when wrong) writes:

In article ,


(Brian Kelly) writes:


Whatever you say. You can imagine getting within 10 Hz of the
correct frequency with the '50s designs all you want...but that
won't make it happen.


What?? Where, exactly, has anybody claimed 10Hz frequency resolution
with '50s analog radios?


Nobody has, it's just a diversion away from the original nonsense about hams
needing rigs with synthesizers.

Creative PLL and DDS subsystems of today, designed by others,
make it possible for anyone to select 10 Hz increments on any
HF band (30,000 frequencies within 300 KHz) with crystal-
controlled accuracy.


Irrelevant to 99% of amateur HF operations. With a very few special exceptions
(like 60m) we're not required by law to be on any specific freq on HF. We *are*
required, and have long been required, to be within the band or subband. Len
can't seem to grasp that concept.

In fact, in almost all HF ham operations, good operators decide their QRG based
on non-interference, not any specific channel or spot frequency.

Analog VFOs are continuously variable. Making it possible for anyone
to select an *infinite* number of "increments" within a 300Hz
bandwidth much less your coarse 300 Khz wide example. And they do it
without generating any phase noise or other forms of crud synthesizers
toss out.


You mean synthesizers aren't perfect in every way?

Remember the HRO-500?

But "synthesized?" No. Far from it. All heterodyning on the analog
level. Not a PLL, not a Fractional-N, not a DDS in any of them.


As if that was somehow important.

He wasn't alone. B&W came out with their 6100 transmitter and it was a
flop.
The synthesizer feature in it was neat but nobody wanted to pay $700 for
one
when they could have a Collins or Drake for the same or less.

Straight out of the 1950s ham catalogs bub . . all of it.


There are "experts" whose entire experience is leafing through
catalogs.


Well, I'm not one of 'em.

My FT-847, which is not much as ham xcvrs go, can be tuned in 1 Hz
increments vs. the "make it possible for anyone to select 10 Hz
increments" thingey you cite above.


That *is* a nice rig. Did a good job on FD.

You obviously need to spend
considerable time leafing thru the ham catalogs to get up to speed on
the equipment we use before you spout off and continue to goose up
your "coefficient of ignornace" on the subject of ham radio in general
and the equipment we use.


Don't hold yer breath...

Again. Gets boring.


Maybe that's the point.

Then there are the few "drudges" (like myself) who've
gotten our hands dirty doing the design and testing of synthesizers.


Then there are drudges like me who have ham licenses and and put
technoligies to work on the airwaves whilst all you're allowed to do
is bafflegab about 'em with your keyboard.


And there are drudges who can design and build a rig from top to bottom, power
supply to antenna, put it on the air and work the world with it on the ham
bands. Using a whole bunch of different modes and technologies. For which we
are called names and insulted here.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Len Over 21 September 28th 04 04:29 AM

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

And there are drudges who can design and build a rig from top to bottom,
power
supply to antenna, put it on the air and work the world with it on the ham
bands. Using a whole bunch of different modes and technologies. For which we
are called names and insulted here.


Poor baby. Life is tough isn't it?

There you dwell on Mt. Olympus...or was it along the "sure-kill"
expressway? Nobody worships you. Tsk.

You aren't getting the accolades and perquisites you so richly
deserve, are you?

Are you wanting the "tithe that binds?"

Tsk. Show everybody who's the BOSS around here! Make
everyone do a morse code test!!! Force them. "Do code or die!"

The Four Morsemen of the Acropolis ride again!

Lotsa fun. snicker



Dave Heil September 28th 04 05:17 AM

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

And there are drudges who can design and build a rig from top to bottom,
power
supply to antenna, put it on the air and work the world with it on the ham
bands. Using a whole bunch of different modes and technologies. For which we
are called names and insulted here.


Poor baby. Life is tough isn't it?


It sure it, Leonard, old boy. You still have no ham ticket, do you?

There you dwell on Mt. Olympus...or was it along the "sure-kill"
expressway? Nobody worships you. Tsk.


Oh some might worship him, Leonard. If you meant that you don't worship
him, you could come out and write that (though most of us have figured
it out). You wouldn't want your popularity here up against Jim's in a
vote, would you?

You aren't getting the accolades and perquisites you so richly
deserve, are you?


Are you getting them here, Leonard, old bean?

Are you wanting the "tithe that binds?"


Jim isn't soliciting funds. I'm the guy attempting to have one million
usenet readers to send me a dollar each.

Tsk. Show everybody who's the BOSS around here! Make
everyone do a morse code test!!! Force them. "Do code or die!"


You needn't take a morse test or even a written exam. Just do as you've
always done.

The Four Morsemen of the Acropolis ride again!


Those are the guys signing the SV1 calls.

Lotsa fun. snicker


It certainly is *grin*

Dave K8MN

N2EY September 28th 04 11:56 AM

In article , Alun
writes:

(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , Alun
writes:

I tend to think that a single class of licence would be a good idea,
although many people argue that there should also be a beginner's
licence, and I am not totally opposed to that. I don't see a genuine
need for more than two licences, though.


Then what you'd want, ideally, is a single class of license whose
written test would at least be equivalent to the current written
requirements for Extra - all in one go.


Not really, although the element 4 questions should be included in the pool
for it.


Devil's Advocate mode = ON

But why are the Element 4 questions needed at all? For that matter, why are
most of the Element 3 questions needed (See below)

Also, I don't think subband restrictions by
licence class make any sense whatsoever, as the propagation is the same
for the whole band.


They are a good idea because they act as an incentive. Of course if
there were only one class of license, they would no longer exist.


Incentive subbands run counter to the core purpose of testing - to ensure
competency. The appropriate level of competency for access to a different
part of the same band at the same power level is, um, let me see - the
same. Big surprise, huh?


By that logic, (insuring competency) there is no reason for any of the Element
4 questions at all, because a General has all of the bands, modes and power
levels of Extras.

So *if* we accept the idea that the only reason for license testing is to
insure competency, and that the General test insures competency for the bands
and modes allocated to it, then there's no reason for the Extra at all.

In fact, we can go a step farther. The Technician allows full power on all
authorized modes and bands above 30 MHz. Therefore, if the reason for testing
beyond the Tech is to insure HF competency, then the only questions that should
be on the General are those specific to HF competency.

Devil's Advocate mode = OFF

The problem with the above argument is that there are reasons for license
testing beyond simply insuring competency.

Ideally, I would give an entry level licence very restricted power on
the whole extent of a limited number of bands in different parts of the
spectrum.


How restricted, and which bands?


I'm not sure how much, maybe QRP, maybe a bit more. It doesn't really
matter exactly which bands, harmonically related combinations such as 40
and 15 would be good.


The power level and bands *do* matter IMHO!

I think that an ideal entry level license would include parts or all of
*all* HF/MF amateur bands. Here's why:

1) Propagation on the various bands varies widely with time of day,
time of year and sunspot cycle. Having the widest possible selection of
bands would allow an entry-level amateur to use the best band for a
given set of conditions and resources, and also affords an opportunity
to learn about the various bands, propagation, etc.


Bands spread throughout the spectrum would acheive that without giving them
every band.


But why not give them every band and let them make the choice?

2) One of the biggest problems facing many amateurs is antenna
restrictions. Another is equipment cost. Often an amateur has to make
do with compromise antennas and equipment which limit the choice of
bands. Having the widest possible selection of bands would allow an
entry-level amateur to use the best band for a given antenna/rig
combination, and also affords an incentive to upgrade so more space on
most bands could be earned.


Or gaining those bands that their random wire works best on might be an
incentive to upgrade, if you look at it from another angle.


How are they to know which bands work best with their setup if they cannot use
some of them?

Why not simply give the broadest selection possible and let the newcomer sample
whatever looks/sounds interesting?

Needless to say, I wouldn't have a code test for any licence. The
problem would be the transition from the present situation to such a
scheme. The vested interests of those currently licenced probably make
this idea impracticable.


Not at all!

All that would be required would be:

1) Existing license classes other than Extra closed off to new licenses
after a certain date. They keep their existing privileges and can
renew/modify indefinitely.

2) Existing license holders could upgrade to Extra by passing the
required written tests.

3) The new entry-level license class has its own privilege set.

4) Existing license holders other than Extra get the combined
privileges of their existing license and the new entry level license.

Eventually everyone in the closed-off license classes will either
upgrade or leave by attrition, and the rules governing them can be
removed without an NPRM. For example, we're down to about 30,000
Novices now, and dropping every month. When the last Novice is gone
from the database, the rules about that license class can be removed
from Part 97.


Your transition plan is messy, and unlikely to appeal to the FCC as it
leaves many loose ends.


FCC was offered some very neat transition plans before the last restructuring.
All were turned down. So they obviously aren't in any hurry to tie up loose
ends.

"Messy" is in the eye of the beholder. Under the above plan, we would probably
have a less-complicated band chart than today.

There are all kinds of variations possible. For example, consider this one:

- Extra renamed "Full", otherwise stays as is.

- Advanced gets all 'phone privileges

- "Entry", General, and Tech/Novice get General privileges. Only difference is
power level allowed.

- All classes except "Full" and "Entry" are closed off to new issues.

This isn't my ideal, just an example. Why wouldn't FCC go for it if a majority
of comments supported it?

K0HB/Hans' proposal makes more and more sense....

73 de Jim, N2EY


Brian Kelly September 29th 04 04:07 PM

PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article ,

(Brian Kelly) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,

PAMNO
(always write even when wrong) writes:

In article ,


(Brian Kelly) writes:


Whatever you say. You can imagine getting within 10 Hz of the
correct frequency with the '50s designs all you want...but that
won't make it happen.


What?? Where, exactly, has anybody claimed 10Hz frequency resolution
with '50s analog radios?


Nobody has, it's just a diversion away from the original nonsense about hams
needing rigs with synthesizers.


Big surprise huh? NOT!

Creative PLL and DDS subsystems of today, designed by others,
make it possible for anyone to select 10 Hz increments on any
HF band (30,000 frequencies within 300 KHz) with crystal-
controlled accuracy.


Irrelevant to 99% of amateur HF operations. With a very few special exceptions
(like 60m) we're not required by law to be on any specific freq on HF.


Right, but sometimes inband operational requirements dictate that we
get dead on some freq or another. Within reason of course. Spots
pouncing, etc.

We *are*
required, and have long been required, to be within the band or subband. Len
can't seem to grasp that concept.


He understands the law but he doesn't understand how we meet it's
req'mts so he bafflegabs over the horizon on the subject often wrong
all the way.

In fact, in almost all HF ham operations, good operators decide their QRG based
on non-interference, not any specific channel or spot frequency.

Analog VFOs are continuously variable. Making it possible for anyone
to select an *infinite* number of "increments" within a 300Hz
bandwidth much less your coarse 300 Khz wide example. And they do it
without generating any phase noise or other forms of crud synthesizers
toss out.


You mean synthesizers aren't perfect in every way?

Remember the HRO-500?


You bet. Disaster box. W3WPG was both a beta and a production version
tester of the 500 and I twiddled bofum myself at his place in Chester.
Both sounded like a bag of radio canaries (species phaseum noisium
boids) and National forthwith went bust despite Hal's imploring them
not to put that POS on the market. .


But "synthesized?" No. Far from it. All heterodyning on the analog
level. Not a PLL, not a Fractional-N, not a DDS in any of them.


As if that was somehow important.


Or anywhere near even slightly relevant.

He wasn't alone. B&W came out with their 6100 transmitter and it was a
flop.
The synthesizer feature in it was neat but nobody wanted to pay $700 for
one
when they could have a Collins or Drake for the same or less.

Straight out of the 1950s ham catalogs bub . . all of it.

There are "experts" whose entire experience is leafing through
catalogs.


Well, I'm not one of 'em.


Neither is anybody else around here amongst us who "have been around"
.. . .


My FT-847, which is not much as ham xcvrs go, can be tuned in 1 Hz
increments vs. the "make it possible for anyone to select 10 Hz
increments" thingey you cite above.


That *is* a nice rig. Did a good job on FD.


Prolly not a good idea for me to loiter on this subject in this NG
James but much to my surprise yes that slick little rig has proven to
be a diamond in the rough. But to hell with it, I'll loiter anyway,
the bandwidth is free.

Radio story (diatribe):

When I went radio hunting a couple years ago I had a very specific set
of 'wants' centered around very high portability but also with the
ergonomnics and front-panel controlability of a full-size
competition-grade home station desktopper. A five pound underdash
Omni. With a full panel of KNOBS, not menus dammit!

(Reminds me of the time I participated in a brain-storming session
pulled together by some of the guys from the Boeing Helicopters power
transmission group. The chief Boeing gearbox wonk started the session
off with "OK gentlemen the mission here is to come up with a
transmission which is capable of transmitting an infinite number of
horsepower to the rotors, weighs nothing and does not require any
installation space.")

I put a bunch of effort into my quest for what amounted to my
particular vision of an ultimate 100W all modes Field Day xcvr. I
didn't care where it came from. Current catalog units new or used,
out-of-production types on the used gear market, etc. I paid a lot of
attention to the online users reviews and lab test reports of a bunch
of candidate rigs. It didn't take long for me to write off all of the
current crop of whizzy do-it-all underdash xcvrs because of their
absolutely lousy basic performance. Bottom-end BDRs, IMDs, fershtink
selectivities (ceramic filters . . . gimmee a break!) along with a
lack of open filter slots, menu-dipping galore. IC-706, FT-897, etc.
Toy radios for the no-clues, fuhgeddit, allum. But (almost) all of
those writeoffs do offer the ability to get on the VHF/UHF bands with
all modes, a capability I added to my "gotta-have" list. I just
*gotta* do some 6 & 2M cw & ssb.

Can't imagine how that sweet old thing from Smog Central came up with
his whacky comments about PCTAs not being into the VHF/UHF bands. He
needs his head bolts retorqued.

Did not take long for me to zero in on the FT-847 because it's the
only xcvr out there anywhere which meets all of my basic objectives.
Despite it's reputation for being a heap of compromises and having a
collection of goofy warts and quirks. I also discovered that most of
it's numerous warts can be fixed with a soldering iron. No-brainer
there if one isn't afraid to perform surgery on a new kilobuck+
radio's innards.

So I popped for one knowing full well that I'd bought something of a
Yaesu "'kit radio".

Out-of-the-box and tuning around the HF bands it was it was, shall we
say, pretty unimpressive. Dismal? Woulda turned you off five seconds
into a test listen. But I expected that. The killer mod was the
installation of the 400Hz and 2.1Khz 8-pole INRAD IF filters a few
weeks before you got your mitts on it during this past FD and
commented it's an acceptable if not a rather decent performer. Given
the fact that you ain't got much tolerance for lousy front ends, phase
noise, birdies, menus, crummy selectivity and such.

I might even have the temerity to take it into the upcoming CQ WW CW
meatgrinder barefoot with a G5RV depending on how the plans work out
for a go at it with K3NL from his place. The K3NL "planning committee"
meets tomorrow at Casey's on Lansdowne Ave. Heh.

The dollars I've invested to date my moded 847 are not trivial, I'm
already at a bit over $1,500 and climbing as I keep adding
"enhancements"to the thing . . . yeah, I know, I could have bought a
used FT-1000MP (Not a "Field"!) for those kind of bucks. But an MP is
not a pack 'n go rig like the 847 nor is it usable 30Mhz. so that was
the end of that. I'll pick up an MP later and have the best of both
worlds. I did draw some lines on the monies though. My original intent
was to spend around $800 for a used 847 which are everywhere in the
used market. The street price from HRO at the time was around $1,500.
No way! But I ran into a sale on new 847s for $1250 gulped hard, bit
the bullet and bought it. The two filters cost $155 each. Current HRO
price is $1,400 which I still wouldn't go for.

I rattle on too much as usual. My point is that if there's anybody out
there still awake and looking for a nice little portable xcvr which
covers 12 bands and does all modes much better than the really compact
(junkers) the 847 is coming up a good choice for this particular OF.

It's about 11 x 11 x 3.5 inches big and only weighs 16 pounds.

http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamhf/1467.html

**This one is a gotta-do for any radio buyer**:

http://www.sherweng.com/presentation.html

Others:

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/135

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FT847/

http://www.supercontrol.de/cat/ft847faq/ft847faq.htm


You obviously need to spend
considerable time leafing thru the ham catalogs to get up to speed on
the equipment we use before you spout off and continue to goose up
your "coefficient of ignornace" on the subject of ham radio in general
and the equipment we use.


Don't hold yer breath...

Again. Gets boring.


Maybe that's the point.


Seems like.

Then there are the few "drudges" (like myself) who've
gotten our hands dirty doing the design and testing of synthesizers.


Then there are drudges like me who have ham licenses and and put
technoligies to work on the airwaves whilst all you're allowed to do
is bafflegab about 'em with your keyboard.


And there are drudges who can design and build a rig from top to bottom, power
supply to antenna, put it on the air and work the world with it on the ham
bands. Using a whole bunch of different modes and technologies.


Right!

For which we
are called names and insulted here.


Writeoff . . .

73 de Jim, N2EY


w3rv

William October 1st 04 01:03 AM

(Len Over 21) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message news:
...

All it took for a ham to stay inside the subbands was a frequency

standard of
known accuracy. This could take the form of an accurately-calibrated

receiver,
transmitter or transceiver, an external frequency meter (WW2 surplus

BC-221 and
LM units were relatively inexpensive in the 1960s) or a 100 kHz

oscillator with
suitable dividers.

He's clueless. As usual. I could comfortably transmit CW within 200Hz
of any band edge or subband edge with my Collins 75A4 and know I was
"legal". I simply tweaked the 100Khz xtal oscillator to get it dead
on against WWV on several freqs and took it from there. The
out-of-the-box Collins PTO and linear dial with it's adjustable cursor
*is* a frequency meter and it's far more accurate than any of W2
surplus units. Not to mention being much more convenient to use.

Straight out of the 1950s ham catalogs bub . . all of it.


All of it?

So I guess all the hoopla about constructing one's own station to be a
real ham was just a bunch of smoke going up someones hamstring?

Not even a Heathkit in there anywhere?

Sheesh!


Heathkits are for "drudges."

Those who sit at captain's tables (natuarlly) had Collins... :-)



Yep, 35 years later they've got Collins. Keepin' up with the times.

Dave Heil October 1st 04 04:53 AM

William wrote:

Yep, 35 years later they've got Collins. Keepin' up with the times.


That's right, "William", I've got a modified 75A-3 which is about 51
years old, a 51S-1 which was produced in the late seventies and a
KWM-2A which was built about the same time as Len's Icom R-70 receiver.
I have an Orion which was produced last year.

I also have other functional ham gear from the twenties, thirties,
forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties. I'm
keeping up with the times--ALL of 'em.

Dave K8MN

Len Over 21 October 1st 04 06:03 AM

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message news:
...

All it took for a ham to stay inside the subbands was a frequency

standard of
known accuracy. This could take the form of an accurately-calibrated

receiver,
transmitter or transceiver, an external frequency meter (WW2 surplus

BC-221 and
LM units were relatively inexpensive in the 1960s) or a 100 kHz

oscillator with
suitable dividers.

He's clueless. As usual. I could comfortably transmit CW within 200Hz
of any band edge or subband edge with my Collins 75A4 and know I was
"legal". I simply tweaked the 100Khz xtal oscillator to get it dead
on against WWV on several freqs and took it from there. The
out-of-the-box Collins PTO and linear dial with it's adjustable cursor
*is* a frequency meter and it's far more accurate than any of W2
surplus units. Not to mention being much more convenient to use.

Straight out of the 1950s ham catalogs bub . . all of it.

All of it?

So I guess all the hoopla about constructing one's own station to be a
real ham was just a bunch of smoke going up someones hamstring?

Not even a Heathkit in there anywhere?

Sheesh!


Heathkits are for "drudges."

Those who sit at captain's tables (natuarlly) had Collins... :-)



Yep, 35 years later they've got Collins. Keepin' up with the times.


Or, on the cheap side of the coin, "recycled" parts using mainly
technology that is 50 to 40 years old (K4YZ homepage). Geez,
absolutely zilch time spent in trying to make any of it attractive.
Not the stuff of "marketable design!"

Collins Radios, back when tubes were king, were REAL boat-
anchors...and performed very well although their specifications
were not great in sensitivity nor in IMD. I've aligned and
calibrated enough R-391s (the R-390 with motorized tuning
added, electronics the same) to be familiar with them.

Kellie is going to name- and number-drop (once he refreshes his
memory on old advertisements) that HIS gear is "the best" and
"superior" and anything that an NCTA has is "crap." HIS
"engineering examples" all involve machinery things, never
electronic stuff. Must be difficult for those who "sit at captain's
tables" to regress and crack open a theory book, huh?

We can't complain about that because the PCTA are royalty
and thus above reproach...but I complain anyway since I know
that electrons, fields, and waves don't much give a snit which
radio service it is or how the modulation is made. Can't
convince the PCTA of that. Color them inviolate.



Dave Heil October 2nd 04 04:48 AM

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,
(William) writes:

(Len Over 21) wrote in message
...
In article ,
(William) writes:

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
.com...
PAMNO (N2EY) wrote in message news:
...


Or, on the cheap side of the coin, "recycled" parts using mainly
technology that is 50 to 40 years old (K4YZ homepage).


What fault do you find with that and why doesn't any of it appear of
K4YZ's homepage?

Geez,
absolutely zilch time spent in trying to make any of it attractive.
Not the stuff of "marketable design!"


That'd be a real problem if it was built to be a marketable design.

Collins Radios, back when tubes were king, were REAL boat-
anchors...and performed very well although their specifications
were not great in sensitivity nor in IMD.


Have I told you lately just how much you remind me of John Kerry?

Dave K8MN


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com