In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In article ,
(Len Over 21) writes:

"Kluge" isn't a clothing style.

Then why did you use the word?

Tsk. Those of us in the real electronics industry (which includes
aerospace) know the word KLUGE and are familiar with it and what
it means. Tens of thousands of us, in fact. It's been in use for a
half century by us electron-pushers. :-)

So why did you use it?

This isn't an aerospace newsgroup.

Tsk. Then why did you carry on like you were such a space business
guru, etc., a couple months ago? :-)

When was that?

Nope, THIS newsgroup seems to be a hang-out for the mighty macho
morsemen, PCTA extras who want to keep shoving the morse code
test on all newcomers to the PCTA's HF playground...

If so, why are you here?

Still upset about your handiwork not being admired and
respected? Even if it has the appearance of being a kluge?

"You can not answer a question with another question"

Tsk, tsk. A kluge is a kluge, despite the self-enoblement you put
on it.

Whatever. That term does not apply to the Type 7.

Here's a quick design problem for you:

Tsk. Have your agent call mine, they can "do lunch" and talk over
the contract terms... :-)

Such an electron pusher as yourself shouldn't require any time at all to solve
such a problem.

Design a heterodyne scheme to cover the 80, 40, and 20 meter ham bands

That was done well before 1990 by others. :-)

But not by you. And not using a 1400 kHz IF

Tsk. You should have read all about the past. Try Collins Radio circa
the end of the 1940s for some examples. You need the TMs for their
government designs?

Don't need any of that, Len. I solved the problem. Can you? I think not.

It seems that you would rather have all of us amateurs simply purchase
whatever the manufacturers put out, without question or comments.

Nooooo...NOT what "I seem to be doing." :-)

OK. It's *exactly* what you're doing.

I called your kluge pile a KLUGE. My opinion.

"Hnarf!"

I didn't try to misdirect
into a discussion of ready-builts.

Yes, you did.

The picture of your transceiver (the
collection of tube-holding chassis) spoke for itself.

You mean the modular construction?

Not at all. The Yankee word for it is "frugal".

CHEAP is still cheap. You can dress it up in fine words but it is
still CHEAP.

"Cheap" means poorly made. Doesn't apply to the Type 7.

Not me. "Kluge' is a familiar term in aerospace. Too bad you never
worked in that...

Why would I want to?

Tsk. I doubt anyone in the aerospace industry really cares what you
want to do personally, but that's just an off-the-cuff opinion. :-)

You haven't answered the question.

Exciting work in aerospace in the USA in the last half century,
really advancing the state of all electronics' art in most disciplines,
making high-performance aircraft and spacecraft that landed on the
moon, plus many other achievements.

The last moon landing was 32 years ago, Len. Why are you stuck in the past?

How is that imposing my standard of beauty on others? It's music to *my*
ears.

Whatever floats your auditory boat. :-)

Too much hip-hop in your headphones, Len ;-)

Your experience is limited and flawed, then.

It always is according to the PCTA extras. :-) Hi hi.

A fact is a fact.

Nothing worth showing, huh? That means you're all talk and no action, Len.
All show and no go. Vaporware.

Tsk, tsk. It's been shown but not as a single-photo home page on
AOL. :-)

Not in any issue of "ham radio". Not anywhere easily referenced.

I think you don't have anything to show. Nor can you solve the problem posed.
So it's all bafflegab and diversion.

Your response is as expected, Len. You don't have any homebrew HF radio
projects to show us. Not receivers, transmitters or transceivers anyway.

Heh heh heh.

You don't, then.

You'd be at a loss to actually design and build one yourself, in your home
workshop, on your own time, with only your own resources. You talk a lot
about articles written by others and technical details, but when it comes to
designing and building a complete radio.......

Tsk. Still incorrect, Jimmie.

Then show us what you've actually done, on your own time and only using your
own resources.

I predict you won't. Or can't.

Nothing worth showing.

Tsk. Still snarly and angry about your collection of un-enclosed chassis
(using tubes) built in the 1990s being called a KLUGE?

Diversion and bafflegab.

Not "put out" at all. You behaved exactly as expected and predicted.

Oooooo..."as expected" and "as predicted!" :-)

"Predicted" to whom? :-)

To the newsgroup.

There's a lot more to building a rig like the Type 7 than "chassis punching"
and remembering circuits.

Can't see that. You haven't documented any of that.

Solve the heterodyne problem. That's the first step. You can't do it, can you?

All us readers saw was a single photo of a bunch of tube-holding un-
enclosed chassis.

More than a few readers have heard it on the air. Reports are uniformly
excellent. That's what really counts, btw - what the signal sounds like.

You didn't show anything else. No show, no blow...by your "rules." :-)

You don't know where to look. Remember that AOL allows up to 7 home pages on a
single account.

At least one receiver of mine (Southgate Type 4, built over 30 years ago) is on
another web page.

It's still much more than *you* have shown.

It's very clear that you are more interested in the superficial (appearance,
parts used, cost) rather than the significant (performance, reliability,
usable features, unique methods) of homebrew radio equipment.

"Very clear?" :-)

Abundantly clear. You're a spectator, so appearances are all you have to go on.

Tsk. I didn't see any MTBF figures or environmental test reports
on the Famous Type 7 home page on AOL. :-)

You won't - your approval isn't needed.

Nope. But you seem to have one. Somebody has a website that shows a homebrew
ham station, and you have to attack its appearance and the technology used,
even though you know little or nothing about it.

"Attack?" :-)

Yes.

Meanwhile, readers may note that you talk of "homebrewing" and "technical
subjects", but have nothing to show that isn't work-related except perhaps
having purchased a ready-built receiver 20+ years ago. For "CASH"...

Tsk. Someone else having money gets you UPSET does it?

Nope. Someone actually homebrewing without your approval gets you upset,
though.

It may also be noted that while you talk about only being against the Morse
Code test (not use), and being in favor of hams doing technical stuff, that
talk rapidly turns negative and critical when someone actually does such
things.

Awwwwww....

It's true!

You seem to think that "the military" is the only way to be of service to
our country. You're wrong about that.

Tsk. You are getting repetitious with your "you're wrong about that."

Your mistakes and errors are reptitious, Len..

*you*. Len. You're not a ham, have never been one, have no apparent
intentions
to become one despite that "out of the box" claim of almost 5 years ago.

Tsk. You're still going on and on with that schtick, aintcha? :-)

Gets you upset, does it?

Did you pledge your allegiance to amateur radio? Take your vows
as a good little morseman, never to sully your soul with an evil
microphone used for speech?

Naw. I've used a wide variety of modes. SSB, AM and FM voice modes, FSK RTTY,
SSTV, etc. as a ham.

Yet you post here probably more than anyone else, clutter the ECFS with long
repetitious commentary on a single small facet of amateur radio testing, and
argue even with those who agree with you.

Tsk. Up till last night, I'd made ONE post in five days. I guess that's
"posting more than anyone else!" :-)

Look at the past month and it's a different story...

I "clutter the ECFS" [at the FCC website] with "long repetitious
commentary
on a single small facet of amateur radio testing?"

Yes.

Tsk. Mikey Powell
should ban me for "overcrowding" the gullfoss server? HAR! Hi hi. :-)

I'm still waiting for you to call him "Mikey" to his face. You sure manage to
bow, scrape and tug the forelock in your comments to the Commission. Easy to
cut and paste, isn't it?

There are no less than 18 petitions on the ECFS towards a proposed
NPRM on amateur radio restructuring. Nearly all of those 18 involve
the manual morse code test. I've commented on nearly all of the 18.

So?


Very illogical.

Yes, isn't it? Jimmie got all put out by not having his handiwork loved
admired, praised, etc. and then made a bunch of factual ERRORS in
closing. Tsk.

The only errors are yours, Len.

A kluge is a kluge. A picture of one speaks for itself.

Is that why you don;t have any pictures of *your* homebrew projects on the web,
Len?

It sure seems to be.

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:


Not me. "Kluge' is a familiar term in aerospace. Too bad you never
worked in that...

Why would I want to?

Tsk. I doubt anyone in the aerospace industry really cares what you
want to do personally, but that's just an off-the-cuff opinion. :-)

I see your point, Len. I doubt that there are many in amateur radio who
care what you want to do "personally".

This brings up something I've been wondering about....

Len describes himself as "retired during regular hours" which I take to mean
that he may still do some work on the side. He's 72 and still working part
time, after a "career in radio electronics". Probably retired at 65, if
postings are any indication. Lives in a nice little house that he is fortunate
to own because he bought it 40+ years ago.

Dave is also retired, if my information is correct, after a career of service
to our country. He's also much younger than Len. Lives in a nice house that is
also a great location for ham radio. Happens to be in WVA but could be
anywhere. Dave could probably live in SoCal if he so desired, but he doesn't.

So I am wondering, looking at their relative retirements, why I should be
interested in following Len's example rather than Dave's.

Not "put out" at all. You behaved exactly as expected and predicted.

Oooooo..."as expected" and "as predicted!" :-)

"Predicted" to whom? :-)

...to the entire newsgroup on quite a number of occasions :-) :-)

There's a one-paragraph profile around here somewhere....;-)

Meanwhile, readers may note that you talk of "homebrewing" and "technical
subjects", but have nothing to show that isn't work-related except perhaps
having purchased a ready-built receiver 20+ years ago. For "CASH"...

Tsk. Someone else having money gets you UPSET does it?

Not at all.

I didn't see any statement about someone else having money, Leonard. We
have an indication that you had, at one time, enough surplus "CASH" to
purchase an Icom R-70.

Brings up another subject...

If I go out and buy an Orion or an IC-7800 "for CASH", will that somehow change
Len's behavior here?

A kluge is a kluge. A picture of one speaks for itself.

Len, you are a rude churl. If we had a photo of you, perhaps it could
speak for itself.

Dave, why do you say that about Len? He's not describing the Southgate Type 7,
because it doesn't fit his definition of a "kluge".

What's most noteworthy is that while Len sits in judgement of what others do,
he hasn't presented any homebrew radio projects of his own. You'd think a
retired guy with a home shop and all his claimed experience, know-how and
critical addy-tood would have built *something*.

But we see nothing at all from Len. Heck, he can't even solve a simple
heterodyne design problem.

You've heard my homebrew rigs, Dave - did they sound any different from "state
of the art" rigs?

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

Len Over 21 wrote:

In article ,

(N2EY) writes:

In article ,

(Len Over 21) writes:


Not me. "Kluge' is a familiar term in aerospace. Too bad you never
worked in that...

Why would I want to?

Tsk. I doubt anyone in the aerospace industry really cares what you
want to do personally, but that's just an off-the-cuff opinion. :-)

I see your point, Len. I doubt that there are many in amateur radio who
care what you want to do "personally".

This brings up something I've been wondering about....

Len describes himself as "retired during regular hours" which I take to mean
that he may still do some work on the side. He's 72 and still working part
time, after a "career in radio electronics". Probably retired at 65, if
postings are any indication. Lives in a nice little house that he is fortunate
to own because he bought it 40+ years ago.

Dave is also retired, if my information is correct, after a career of service
to our country. He's also much younger than Len. Lives in a nice house that is
also a great location for ham radio.

It is also a nice location for peace and quiet, for hunting, for
astronomy and for being near a population of ordinary folks.

Happens to be in WVA but could be
anywhere.
Dave could probably live in SoCal if he so desired, but he doesn't.

Southern California would be far down my list of desireable places to
live. It does top Manhattan on my list. I had no desire to locate near
any large city. From my place, I can see three homes, none closer than
about 100 yards.

So I am wondering, looking at their relative retirements, why I should be
interested in following Len's example rather than Dave's.

Not "put out" at all. You behaved exactly as expected and predicted.

Oooooo..."as expected" and "as predicted!" :-)

"Predicted" to whom? :-)

...to the entire newsgroup on quite a number of occasions :-) :-)

There's a one-paragraph profile around here somewhere....;-)

It is wonderfully crafted and it is what I had in mind when I reponded
to Len's question.

Meanwhile, readers may note that you talk of "homebrewing" and "technical
subjects", but have nothing to show that isn't work-related except perhaps
having purchased a ready-built receiver 20+ years ago. For "CASH"...

Tsk. Someone else having money gets you UPSET does it?

Not at all.

Len's hidden, puerile implication is that he has money and you don't.

I didn't see any statement about someone else having money, Leonard. We
have an indication that you had, at one time, enough surplus "CASH" to
purchase an Icom R-70.

Brings up another subject...

If I go out and buy an Orion or an IC-7800 "for CASH", will that somehow change
Len's behavior here?

I don't think that'd turn the trick, Jim. You'd have to be able to
prove to Len that you bought it for CASH.

A kluge is a kluge. A picture of one speaks for itself.

Len, you are a rude churl. If we had a photo of you, perhaps it could
speak for itself.

Dave, why do you say that about Len? He's not describing the Southgate Type 7,
because it doesn't fit his definition of a "kluge".

No, it doesn't fit his provided definition but that hasn't stopped him
from attempting to force-fit it to his definition. He wasn't paying you
a compliment. His definitions of amateur radio and the ARRL aren't
accurate either. He hasn't allowed that to stop him from painting a
false picture of either.

What's most noteworthy is that while Len sits in judgement of what others do,
he hasn't presented any homebrew radio projects of his own. You'd think a
retired guy with a home shop and all his claimed experience, know-how and
critical addy-tood would have built *something*.

C'mon. You'd think that a guy who has declared a several decades
interest in amateur radio would have obtained an amateur radio license.
He certainly could have done so in the years he has been posting here.
He could have done so in the years since his embarrassing "Extra right
out of the box" boast. Suddenly, he claims that I'm keeping him from
obtaining a license.

But we see nothing at all from Len. Heck, he can't even solve a simple
heterodyne design problem.

I'm sure that he's seen your challenge as a DEMAND. Len doesn't do
DEMANDS.

You've heard my homebrew rigs, Dave - did they sound any different from "state
of the art" rigs?

No, not at all. There was no drift, no chirp, no warble, no clicks.
Now that I think of it, some of the more expensive commercial rigs have
a reputation for key clicks. The Yaesu FT-1000 MP and variants come to
mind. Some of the expensive commercial rigs also transmit really ugly
phase noise components. They were designed by PROFESSIONALS.

Len asks things about what others have built or designed. When he
receives a response, he heaps insults on the equipment offered in
evidence. Though Len isn't a ham, he can build electronic item his
little heart desires. There is no indication or even a statement from
him that he has done so. Radio amateurs have the legal right to use
their homebrew equipment or to use modified commercial equipment on the
bands. They can do these things without the need for becoming
PROFESSIONALS or having their work checked by PROFESSIONALS.

Dave K8MN

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:


Len describes himself as "retired during regular hours" which I take to
mean
that he may still do some work on the side. He's 72 and still working part
time, after a "career in radio electronics". Probably retired at 65, if
postings are any indication. Lives in a nice little house that he is
fortunate to own because he bought it 40+ years ago.

Dave is also retired, if my information is correct, after a career of
service
to our country. He's also much younger than Len. Lives in a nice house that
is also a great location for ham radio.

It is also a nice location for peace and quiet, for hunting, for
astronomy and for being near a population of ordinary folks.

Of course. btw, is any of the info above that I wrote about you inaccurate in
any way, Dave?

Happens to be in WVA but could be anywhere.
Dave could probably live in SoCal if he so desired, but he doesn't.

Southern California would be far down my list of desireable places to
live. It does top Manhattan on my list. I had no desire to locate near
any large city.

Not the point! All I'm saying is that if you *did* want to be in SoCal, or
Manhattan, or even EPA, you'd be there. WVa is your choice, not something
forced on you.

From my place, I can see three homes, none closer than about 100 yards.

Beautiful. I've seen the pics on your website. The only downside to your
location that I can find is...no, wait, I haven't been able to find a
downside...

So I am wondering, looking at their relative retirements, why I should be
interested in following Len's example rather than Dave's.

The more I think about it, the more I like Dave's example and the less I like
Len's. Judging by the results at retirement, anyway.

There's a one-paragraph profile around here somewhere....;-)

It is wonderfully crafted and it is what I had in mind when I reponded
to Len's question.

Perhaps it needs to be reposted to refresh some memories...

Meanwhile, readers may note that you talk of "homebrewing" and
"technical
subjects", but have nothing to show that isn't work-related except
perhaps
having purchased a ready-built receiver 20+ years ago. For "CASH"...

Tsk. Someone else having money gets you UPSET does it?

Not at all.

Len's hidden, puerile implication is that he has money and you don't.

Probably. But I'm not going to play the "my wallet's bigger than yours" game.
Personal worth and net worth are not at all comparable.

Besides - suppose I *did* play that game - and won. Suppose my financial
situation turned out to be better than Len's. Would it make any difference to
any amateur radio policy issue, or Len's behavior?

I didn't see any statement about someone else having money, Leonard. We
have an indication that you had, at one time, enough surplus "CASH" to
purchase an Icom R-70.

Brings up another subject...

If I go out and buy an Orion or an IC-7800 "for CASH", will that somehow
change Len's behavior here?

I don't think that'd turn the trick, Jim. You'd have to be able to
prove to Len that you bought it for CASH.

Even if I bought one of each for CASH and could prove it - would it make any
difference?

I don't think so.

A lot of noise has been made about "state of the art". I don't ever recall
describing any of my projects as being "state of the art". They're just radio
projects I built to serve a need. And they do, without costing a lot of money.

I think that really bothers ol' Len. In some ways I'm his worst nightmare,
because I disprove so many of his pronouncements. For example, he can go off
about how hams are "appliance operators" - and then someone points out that
hams like me are still homebrewing entire stations.

Perhaps that's the real reason for his intense hatred of Morse Code. Its
popularity makes it possible for more of us homebrewing hams to exist. How many
hams would homebrew if their first project had to be an SSB transceiver?

A kluge is a kluge. A picture of one speaks for itself.

Len, you are a rude churl. If we had a photo of you, perhaps it could
speak for itself.

Dave, why do you say that about Len? He's not describing the Southgate
Type 7, because it doesn't fit his definition of a "kluge".

No, it doesn't fit his provided definition but that hasn't stopped him
from attempting to force-fit it to his definition.

Well, logic isn't his strong suit ;-)

He wasn't paying you a compliment.

Is there *any* project I could homebrew that he *would* compliment?

His definitions of amateur radio and the ARRL aren't
accurate either. He hasn't allowed that to stop him from painting a
false picture of either.

Yep.

What's most noteworthy is that while Len sits in judgement of what others
do,
he hasn't presented any homebrew radio projects of his own. You'd think a
retired guy with a home shop and all his claimed experience, know-how and
critical addy-tood would have built *something*.

C'mon. You'd think that a guy who has declared a several decades
interest in amateur radio would have obtained an amateur radio license.
He certainly could have done so in the years he has been posting here.
He could have done so in the years since his embarrassing "Extra right
out of the box" boast. Suddenly, he claims that I'm keeping him from
obtaining a license.

Well, in a twisted sort of way you are, Dave. Me too. Even Kim is part of it
(look how her one little post about Morse Code *use* caught Len hook, line and
sinker)

By bothering to answer Len's frequent postings, and pointing out his errors, we
keep Len occupied here. By commenting to the FCC, we keep him busy writing
comments and reply comments. And by using and enjoying Morse Code, we make him
fussy as a wet hen.

The Type 7 photo - just one little low-res photo taken by an old Kodak DC-40 -
has kept him tied up for some time. (He hasn't even found the other photos of
Southgate Radio projects that are out there on the web).

btw, some months ago I got a Canon A80 digital camera. New - for CASH...

But we see nothing at all from Len. Heck, he can't even solve a simple
heterodyne design problem.

I'm sure that he's seen your challenge as a DEMAND. Len doesn't do
DEMANDS.

It's a very basic problem. I solved it more than a dozen years ago. Apparently
it's too much for him.

You've heard my homebrew rigs, Dave - did they sound any different from
"state of the art" rigs?

No, not at all. There was no drift, no chirp, no warble, no clicks.

Thank you.

Now that I think of it, some of the more expensive commercial rigs have
a reputation for key clicks. The Yaesu FT-1000 MP and variants come to
mind. Some of the expensive commercial rigs also transmit really ugly
phase noise components. They were designed by PROFESSIONALS.

You mean....the Type 7 actually sounds *better* than some high-priced,
"ready-built", "state-of-the-art" manufactured ham rigs?

How can that be?

Len asks things about what others have built or designed. When he
receives a response, he heaps insults on the equipment offered in
evidence.

Which is why I didn't respond. I knew how Len would react.

"Leo" pointed the way to my website. Which required about three seconds of
googling to find.

Though Len isn't a ham, he can build

[any]

electronic item his little heart desires.

True - but he can't sell certain items, or use them.

There is no indication or even a statement from
him that he has done so.

Right!

Radio amateurs have the legal right to use
their homebrew equipment or to use modified commercial equipment on the
bands. They can do these things without the need for becoming
PROFESSIONALS or having their work checked by PROFESSIONALS.

But the reverse is not true if the professionals aren't also amateurs.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: Dave Heil
Date: 10/17/2004 10:34 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

N2EY wrote:

But we see nothing at all from Len. Heck, he can't even solve a simple
heterodyne design problem.

I'm sure that he's seen your challenge as a DEMAND. Len doesn't do
DEMANDS.

"Len" doesn't do REQUESTS either...here or on his jobs...That's why his
one tour at NADC was just that...one tour...

73

Steve, K4YZ.

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/17/2004 7:43 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

N2EY wrote:

Len describes himself as "retired during regular hours" which I take to
mean
that he may still do some work on the side. He's 72 and still working
part
time, after a "career in radio electronics". Probably retired at 65, if
postings are any indication. Lives in a nice little house that he is
fortunate to own because he bought it 40+ years ago.

Dave is also retired, if my information is correct, after a career of
service
to our country. He's also much younger than Len. Lives in a nice house
that
is also a great location for ham radio.

It is also a nice location for peace and quiet, for hunting, for
astronomy and for being near a population of ordinary folks.

Of course. btw, is any of the info above that I wrote about you inaccurate
in
any way, Dave?

I believe it is. Dave has described his home as a "tar paper shack."
That might be the difference between a career as an Engineer, and one
as a public ham servant.

Happens to be in WVA but could be anywhere.
Dave could probably live in SoCal if he so desired, but he doesn't.

Southern California would be far down my list of desireable places to
live. It does top Manhattan on my list. I had no desire to locate near
any large city.

Not the point! All I'm saying is that if you *did* want to be in SoCal, or
Manhattan, or even EPA, you'd be there. WVa is your choice, not something
forced on you.

Da Judge told Len that he must retire in 6-land. No Manhattan, no
EPA, and no tar paper shack in WVA. It was forced on Len.

Sheesh. Is there a point in any of this?

"Freedom of speech", Brain.

You and Lennie like to wave that around when you feel like YOUR "freedom
of speech" is being impeded. Of course you don't like it when someone else is
exercising thiers.

And I kinda figgered that there was some sort of legal order over Lennie's
head.

Thanks for confirming it for me, Brain.

Steve, K4YZ

N2EY wrote:

In article , Dave Heil
writes:

N2EY wrote:


Len describes himself as "retired during regular hours" which I take to
mean
that he may still do some work on the side. He's 72 and still working part
time, after a "career in radio electronics". Probably retired at 65, if
postings are any indication. Lives in a nice little house that he is
fortunate to own because he bought it 40+ years ago.

Dave is also retired, if my information is correct, after a career of
service
to our country. He's also much younger than Len. Lives in a nice house that
is also a great location for ham radio.

It is also a nice location for peace and quiet, for hunting, for
astronomy and for being near a population of ordinary folks.

Of course. btw, is any of the info above that I wrote about you inaccurate in
any way, Dave?

It looks accurate to me.

Happens to be in WVA but could be anywhere.
Dave could probably live in SoCal if he so desired, but he doesn't.

Southern California would be far down my list of desireable places to
live. It does top Manhattan on my list. I had no desire to locate near
any large city.

Not the point! All I'm saying is that if you *did* want to be in SoCal, or
Manhattan, or even EPA, you'd be there. WVa is your choice, not something
forced on you.

I could have lived anywhere I chose. We even considered Finland for a
time.

From my place, I can see three homes, none closer than about 100 yards.

Beautiful. I've seen the pics on your website. The only downside to your
location that I can find is...no, wait, I haven't been able to find a
downside...

The downside is: If you want to go anywhere, its a fur piece down the
road.

So I am wondering, looking at their relative retirements, why I should be
interested in following Len's example rather than Dave's.

The more I think about it, the more I like Dave's example and the less I like
Len's. Judging by the results at retirement, anyway.

The results, aside from location, are pretty much the same. I am
"retired from regular hours" I've even been known to pay CASH for
things and could provide examples more recent than twenty years ago.

There's a one-paragraph profile around here somewhere....;-)

It is wonderfully crafted and it is what I had in mind when I reponded
to Len's question.

Perhaps it needs to be reposted to refresh some memories...

I'll bet it'll be resurrected shortly.

Meanwhile, readers may note that you talk of "homebrewing" and
"technical
subjects", but have nothing to show that isn't work-related except
perhaps
having purchased a ready-built receiver 20+ years ago. For "CASH"...

Tsk. Someone else having money gets you UPSET does it?

Not at all.

Len's hidden, puerile implication is that he has money and you don't.

Probably. But I'm not going to play the "my wallet's bigger than yours" game.
Personal worth and net worth are not at all comparable.

I've known a few people who measure folks by their income or their home
or their car. I've never thought much of 'em.

Besides - suppose I *did* play that game - and won. Suppose my financial
situation turned out to be better than Len's. Would it make any difference to
any amateur radio policy issue, or Len's behavior?

While it wouldn't make a dent in an amateur radio policy matter, I'm
betting that it would make a difference in Len's behavior. It would
likely become worse.

I didn't see any statement about someone else having money, Leonard. We
have an indication that you had, at one time, enough surplus "CASH" to
purchase an Icom R-70.

Brings up another subject...

If I go out and buy an Orion or an IC-7800 "for CASH", will that somehow
change Len's behavior here?

I don't think that'd turn the trick, Jim. You'd have to be able to
prove to Len that you bought it for CASH.

Even if I bought one of each for CASH and could prove it - would it make any
difference?

See my response above.

I don't think so.

I do.

A lot of noise has been made about "state of the art". I don't ever recall
describing any of my projects as being "state of the art". They're just radio
projects I built to serve a need. And they do, without costing a lot of money.

Mine have all been "state of need" or "state of desire".

I think that really bothers ol' Len. In some ways I'm his worst nightmare,
because I disprove so many of his pronouncements. For example, he can go off
about how hams are "appliance operators" - and then someone points out that
hams like me are still homebrewing entire stations.

Perhaps that's the real reason for his intense hatred of Morse Code. Its
popularity makes it possible for more of us homebrewing hams to exist. How many
hams would homebrew if their first project had to be an SSB transceiver?

There wouldn't be nearly as many.

A kluge is a kluge. A picture of one speaks for itself.

Len, you are a rude churl. If we had a photo of you, perhaps it could
speak for itself.

Dave, why do you say that about Len? He's not describing the Southgate
Type 7, because it doesn't fit his definition of a "kluge".

No, it doesn't fit his provided definition but that hasn't stopped him
from attempting to force-fit it to his definition.

Well, logic isn't his strong suit ;-)

He wasn't paying you a compliment.

Is there *any* project I could homebrew that he *would* compliment?

The odds against that happening are quite high.

His definitions of amateur radio and the ARRL aren't
accurate either. He hasn't allowed that to stop him from painting a
false picture of either.

Yep.

What's most noteworthy is that while Len sits in judgement of what others
do,
he hasn't presented any homebrew radio projects of his own. You'd think a
retired guy with a home shop and all his claimed experience, know-how and
critical addy-tood would have built *something*.

C'mon. You'd think that a guy who has declared a several decades
interest in amateur radio would have obtained an amateur radio license.
He certainly could have done so in the years he has been posting here.
He could have done so in the years since his embarrassing "Extra right
out of the box" boast. Suddenly, he claims that I'm keeping him from
obtaining a license.

Well, in a twisted sort of way you are, Dave. Me too. Even Kim is part of it
(look how her one little post about Morse Code *use* caught Len hook, line and
sinker)

I'll stand by my inertia theory. Len will never be a participant in
amateur radio.

By bothering to answer Len's frequent postings, and pointing out his errors, we
keep Len occupied here. By commenting to the FCC, we keep him busy writing
comments and reply comments. And by using and enjoying Morse Code, we make him
fussy as a wet hen.

You forget that Len has lots and lots of time. He'd still have plenty
to obtain a license...if he was ever going to do so.

The Type 7 photo - just one little low-res photo taken by an old Kodak DC-40 -
has kept him tied up for some time. (He hasn't even found the other photos of
Southgate Radio projects that are out there on the web).

btw, some months ago I got a Canon A80 digital camera. New - for CASH...

You're just asking for a windy lecture on photography, aren't you?

But we see nothing at all from Len. Heck, he can't even solve a simple
heterodyne design problem.

I'm sure that he's seen your challenge as a DEMAND. Len doesn't do
DEMANDS.

It's a very basic problem. I solved it more than a dozen years ago. Apparently
it's too much for him.

He wants to be paid for solving it.

You've heard my homebrew rigs, Dave - did they sound any different from
"state of the art" rigs?

No, not at all. There was no drift, no chirp, no warble, no clicks.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Now that I think of it, some of the more expensive commercial rigs have
a reputation for key clicks. The Yaesu FT-1000 MP and variants come to
mind. Some of the expensive commercial rigs also transmit really ugly
phase noise components. They were designed by PROFESSIONALS.

You mean....the Type 7 actually sounds *better* than some high-priced,
"ready-built", "state-of-the-art" manufactured ham rigs?

Absolutely.

How can that be?

Attention to detail?

Dave K8MN

Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/18/2004 1:31 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message
...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: (William)
Date: 10/17/2004 7:43 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Heil

writes:

N2EY wrote:

Len describes himself as "retired during regular hours" which I take
to
mean
that he may still do some work on the side. He's 72 and still working
part
time, after a "career in radio electronics". Probably retired at 65,
if
postings are any indication. Lives in a nice little house that he is
fortunate to own because he bought it 40+ years ago.

Dave is also retired, if my information is correct, after a career of
service
to our country. He's also much younger than Len. Lives in a nice
house
that
is also a great location for ham radio.

It is also a nice location for peace and quiet, for hunting, for
astronomy and for being near a population of ordinary folks.

Of course. btw, is any of the info above that I wrote about you
inaccurate
in
any way, Dave?

I believe it is. Dave has described his home as a "tar paper shack."
That might be the difference between a career as an Engineer, and one
as a public ham servant.

Happens to be in WVA but could be anywhere.
Dave could probably live in SoCal if he so desired, but he doesn't.

Southern California would be far down my list of desireable places to
live. It does top Manhattan on my list. I had no desire to locate
near
any large city.

Not the point! All I'm saying is that if you *did* want to be in SoCal,
or
Manhattan, or even EPA, you'd be there. WVa is your choice, not
something
forced on you.

Da Judge told Len that he must retire in 6-land. No Manhattan, no
EPA, and no tar paper shack in WVA. It was forced on Len.

Sheesh. Is there a point in any of this?

"Freedom of speech", Brain.

You and Lennie like to wave that around when you feel like YOUR
"freedom
of speech" is being impeded. Of course you don't like it when someone else
is
exercising thiers.

And I kinda figgered that there was some sort of legal order over
Lennie's
head.

Thanks for confirming it for me, Brain.

Steve, K4YZ

Whatta goofball.

Yes, you are. And that you have accepted it is a major step forward.

Bravo.

Steve, K4YZ