Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: "Phil Kane"
Date: 9/21/2004 1:13 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

On 21 Sep 2004 00:12:02 GMT, Alun wrote:

The US may be the last country to abolish the code test, the way things are
going. Mind you, AFAIK the code test has still not been abolished in Spain
or Italy(?), although I don't think there's a code test anywhere else much
in Europe anymore.

Most of the countries where the code test has been dropped do not
have the same requirement for rules changes that the US has, such as
consideration of public input and comments, publication of notice of
rulemaking, petitions for reconsideration and court appeals, etc.

They just DO it ..... (usually because someone in the regulatory
Administration thinks that it is a good thing to do without public
input....)

But Phil, after the opening of the No Code Tech in 91 along with the FCC's
stated psoition on the relevence of Code testing, along with the tons of papaer
they've received on it already, just how many more "hearings" or comments do
they need?

73

Steve, K4YZ

(Steve Robeson K4CAP) wrote in message ...
Subject: US Licensing Restructuring ??? When ???
From: "Phil Kane"
Date: 9/21/2004 1:13 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

On 21 Sep 2004 00:12:02 GMT, Alun wrote:

The US may be the last country to abolish the code test, the way things are
going. Mind you, AFAIK the code test has still not been abolished in Spain
or Italy(?), although I don't think there's a code test anywhere else much
in Europe anymore.

Most of the countries where the code test has been dropped do not
have the same requirement for rules changes that the US has, such as
consideration of public input and comments, publication of notice of
rulemaking, petitions for reconsideration and court appeals, etc.

They just DO it ..... (usually because someone in the regulatory
Administration thinks that it is a good thing to do without public
input....)

But Phil, after the opening of the No Code Tech in 91 along with the FCC's
stated psoition on the relevence of Code testing, along with the tons of papaer
they've received on it already, just how many more "hearings" or comments do
they need?

Doesn't matter, Steve. Once they decided to go the NPRM route, the
wheels will turn at their designated speed.

Note also that the quoted code-test positions of FCC are close to 5
years old. (The Report and Order for 98-143 was written in late 1999).
Maybe all the comments have had an impact.

If the code test is such a "barrier" to would-be hams, why aren't they
telling FCC? When you total up the comments *by author*, you find that
most people who bother to comment want to keep at least some code
testing. You also find that most commenters already have a ham
license. What you do not see are large numbers of nonhams telling FCC
that they'd become hams if the code test were removed. So wouldn't it
make sense for FCC to conclude that there are *not* a lot of people
who are "being kept out" by the code test?

I think N8UZE has a very valid point that all the proposals simply
slow the machinery down. Note that NCVEC has *two* proposals!

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote

So wouldn't it make sense for FCC to conclude
that there are *not* a lot of people
who are "being kept out" by the code test?

I don't think the code test keeps anyone out of the Amateur Radio
service.

On a somewhat related matter, I also don't think that we need a code
test to prove anyone's worthiness to operate on amateur frequencies
below 30MHz.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and
finds
himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of
people
who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
-- Bokonon

I think N8UZE has a very valid point that all the proposals simply
slow the machinery down. Note that NCVEC has *two* proposals!


That machinery is probably a few brearucrats that will get to
it when there's nothing else to do....

"Joe Guthart" wrote in message
...
What's going on here ... the talk of restructuring to remove morse code
requirements has been going on for over 18 months. Many, many countries
have already removed the morse code requirement to gain access to HF.
Sure
there's been a lot of backlash from those who still want to keep code
alive.
I know this is the government, but, what is taking so long? Can't they
come
to some decision quickly. Anyone have a proposed timeline of when this
will
be settled.



I think the hams shot themselves in the foot on this one. There have been
at least 18 petitions regarding code/no-code and restructuring submitted to
the FCC. Each one of these had to be opened to comments. The FCC will have
to rule on each petition and then take time to digest them and consolidate
into a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking should they choose to proceed. Then
this NPR will have to be open to comments for awhile. On top of that keep
in mind that the FCC is drastically understaffed. Finally, the FCC
implemented a major restructuring in the year 2000. They may simply not
want to make any changes this soon.

Besides, how often (except in times of war) have you seen the government do
anything quickly.

I estimated July of 2005 and am beginning to think that even that was not a
conservative enough guess.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

In article , "Joe Guthart"
writes:

What's going on here ... the talk of restructuring to remove morse code
requirements has been going on for over 18 months.

No, it's only 14 months. WRC-2003 changed the treaty in July 2003

Many, many countries
have already removed the morse code requirement to gain access to HF.

Not really. Count 'em up - they are but a small fraction of the countries who
have retained the requirement.

Sure
there's been a lot of backlash from those who still want to keep code alive.
I know this is the government, but, what is taking so long? Can't they come
to some decision quickly.

I think that FCC had the authority to just drop Element 1 back in July 2003.
But they decided to go through the entire regulatory process, which takes time.
And it's just not a high priority to FCC.

In the 14 months since last July, there have been well over a dozen different
restructuring proposals to FCC from various groups and individuals. They range
from as simple as "drop the code test and leave everything else alone" to
major renovations including new license classes, subband changes, etc. Each and
every proposal I know of has been assigned an RM number, put on the public
record, opened for public comment, etc. Eventually the FCC will generate an
NPRM from all that info, there will be more comments and reply comments and
eventually the rules may change. Or not.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Anyone have a proposed timeline of when this will
be settled.

In article , PAMNO
(N2EY) writes:

In the 14 months since last July, there have been well over a dozen different
restructuring proposals to FCC from various groups and individuals. They
range
from as simple as "drop the code test and leave everything else alone" to
major renovations including new license classes, subband changes, etc. Each
and
every proposal I know of has been assigned an RM number, put on the public
record, opened for public comment, etc. Eventually the FCC will generate an
NPRM from all that info, there will be more comments and reply comments and
eventually the rules may change. Or not.

Yes, and eventually the world will end...or not. :-)

To be informative, you could have named the Petitions for Rule Making
in their number groups (three groups in all), when they were released
(again in three groups) and how to access them. All are still on public
viewing by anyone, either at the FCC Reading Room or over the Internet
at the FCC ECFS (Electronic Comment Filing System).

You COULD have given that information...but did not.

Instead there was some kind of assortment of undetailed facts which
were obvious but uninformative. That is pretense at expertise, a sort
of show-off of words rattled off to make it sound like you know what
you are about. But they aren't helpful to those unaquainted of the
facts, are they?

Naturally, you will launch into a tirade of "you are wrongs!" at being
negatively criticized. That is also Standard Operating Procedure in
here. :-) [PCTA extras are always right, all others "wrong"...:-) ]

Consider this: Amateur radio is communications. With all the
near-instant communications capability of radio amateurs, you
would think that all would have found out about the 18 petitions for
rule making within twelve months. Apparently not. You depend on
a single source for all the "information," the ARRL bulletins and
news...or various rumors (and myths) propagated across the
Internet. So, what are all those radios good for? Making casual
quick contacts which you all amplify to "making lifelong friends"
via a 5-minute QSO? Having "radio sport" of making the most
contacts in a given time?

But, not to worry. All those who are licensed at the "top" class
now will be grandfathered to continue in U.S. ham radio. You PCTA
extras will never be affected by the presence or absence of a morse
code test. That only affects newcomers. "Drudges," newbies, those
who you PCTA extras allege are "still wet behind the ears."

Isn't the wind cold at those high altitudes of Mt. Olympus? Tsk.

"Joe Guthart" wrote in message ...
What's going on here ... the talk of restructuring to remove morse code
requirements has been going on for over 18 months. Many, many countries
have already removed the morse code requirement to gain access to HF.

Kindly note that "other countries" don't generally lead the U.S.
around by it's nose. The U.S. seldom blindly buys into "many many
foreign goverments'"internal policies. We ain't EU/UN sheep. Take your
pick.

Sure
there's been a lot of backlash from those who still want to keep code alive.

It's not a "backlash", a very large precentage of the U.S. ham
population favors the retention of the code test. The FCC is quite
aware of this divide within the hobby and as a result continues to let
the matter cook on one of their sub-basement back burners until they
manage to get back to the matter. Typical bush-league bureaucratic
work and aggravation avoidance ploy. Keeps their inbox flak & spam
levels down.

I know this is the government, but, what is taking so long?

Because the public has no vested interest at all in whether the ham
code test goes away or not. The FCC has *much* bigger fish to fry with
it's scarce resources. For instance the public needs the FCC to focus
it's assets on dramatically reshuffling the whole upper RF spectrum to
accomodate wireless broadband access to the Internet far more than the
public needs the FCC to diddle with rules changes which allow more
codeless hobbyists access to the HF ham bands.

Can't they come
to some decision quickly.

Joesph did you just get off the boat at Ellis Island Joe??

Anyone have a proposed timeline of when this will
be settled.

Nice troll Joe. At least in on-topic for once.

w3rv

(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

"Joe Guthart" wrote in message
...
What's going on here ... the talk of restructuring to remove morse
code requirements has been going on for over 18 months. Many, many
countries have already removed the morse code requirement to gain
access to HF.

Kindly note that "other countries" don't generally lead the U.S.
around by it's nose. The U.S. seldom blindly buys into "many many
foreign goverments'"internal policies. We ain't EU/UN sheep. Take your
pick.

Sure
there's been a lot of backlash from those who still want to keep code
alive.

It's not a "backlash", a very large precentage of the U.S. ham
population favors the retention of the code test. The FCC is quite
aware of this divide within the hobby and as a result continues to let
the matter cook on one of their sub-basement back burners until they
manage to get back to the matter. Typical bush-league bureaucratic
work and aggravation avoidance ploy. Keeps their inbox flak & spam
levels down.

I know this is the government, but, what is taking so long?

Because the public has no vested interest at all in whether the ham
code test goes away or not. The FCC has *much* bigger fish to fry with
it's scarce resources. For instance the public needs the FCC to focus
it's assets on dramatically reshuffling the whole upper RF spectrum to
accomodate wireless broadband access to the Internet far more than the
public needs the FCC to diddle with rules changes which allow more
codeless hobbyists access to the HF ham bands.

Can't they come
to some decision quickly.

Joesph did you just get off the boat at Ellis Island Joe??

Anyone have a proposed timeline of when this will be settled.

Nice troll Joe. At least in on-topic for once.

w3rv


That's not a troll

Alun wrote in message .. .
(Brian Kelly) wrote in
om:

"Joe Guthart" wrote in message
...
What's going on here ... the talk of restructuring to remove morse
code requirements has been going on for over 18 months. Many, many
countries have already removed the morse code requirement to gain
access to HF.

Kindly note that "other countries" don't generally lead the U.S.
around by it's nose. The U.S. seldom blindly buys into "many many
foreign goverments'"internal policies. We ain't EU/UN sheep. Take your
pick.

Sure
there's been a lot of backlash from those who still want to keep code
alive.

It's not a "backlash", a very large precentage of the U.S. ham
population favors the retention of the code test. The FCC is quite
aware of this divide within the hobby and as a result continues to let
the matter cook on one of their sub-basement back burners until they
manage to get back to the matter. Typical bush-league bureaucratic
work and aggravation avoidance ploy. Keeps their inbox flak & spam
levels down.

I know this is the government, but, what is taking so long?

Because the public has no vested interest at all in whether the ham
code test goes away or not. The FCC has *much* bigger fish to fry with
it's scarce resources. For instance the public needs the FCC to focus
it's assets on dramatically reshuffling the whole upper RF spectrum to
accomodate wireless broadband access to the Internet far more than the
public needs the FCC to diddle with rules changes which allow more
codeless hobbyists access to the HF ham bands.

Can't they come
to some decision quickly.

Joesph did you just get off the boat at Ellis Island Joe??

Anyone have a proposed timeline of when this will be settled.

Nice troll Joe. At least in on-topic for once.

w3rv


That's not a troll

If so then he really did just get off the boat.

w3rv