K4YZ wrote:

bb wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

David, I have no attribution problem. I know who said what. bb

The attributions say otherwise, "bb".

Who you gonna believe?

Yeah Dave...You gonna believe an archiving system known for it's
flawless recordkeeping, or a guy caught in numerous mistruths, deceit
and blatant lies?

Think reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal hard.......

I'm going to give "bb" a break here. I'm discounting all of his
deliberate untruths and misstatements. This looks like simple
incompetence on "bb's" part. It is similar to his recent posts which
shows quoted material in triple quotation marks. Other recent posts
have been what appear to be responses to the posts of another, but which
contained no quoted material at all to provide the reader any context.
"BB" made an error which made it appear that I wrote something which I
did not write. It is incumbent upon him to be more careful.

Dave K8MN

Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Charles Brabham wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...

It seems to me that one of the limitations of amateur packet radio

is

that
it hasn't evolved much past the 1200 baud/BBS mindset of 20+ years

ago.

Heck,
even trailingedge computer types like me have been running 56k

dialup

modems for almost a decade!

Does your 56kb dialup modem work pretty good with your 2-meter rig?

Wow! -

Why didn't we BBS operators think of this YEARS ago!


Ya missed the point, Charles.

1200 baud packet is a make-do, chosen to be quick and cheap. All
you
have to do is interface to an FM voice radio.

Getting a significant improvement in bandwidth would mean actually
*building radios* designed for the purpose. Which simply hasn't
happened in large numbers.

Arrgh. I havn't thought much about it, but yes, you are right. A rig

with both fetures could be designed without too much trouble.

One of the things that has been repeatedly promised and predicted for
the
various license test changes was that we'd get more 'technically
inclined'
new hams, who would revolutionize ham radio with 'new modes and
modulations' and other neat stuff. Yet when it comes to actually
*building radios*, we
see even the self-proclaimed 'professionals in radio' buying them
ready-made.
And ginving those who *do* build their own rigs a raft of $&!# about
doing so.

Kinda makes ya wonder....

Kind of a sad commentary. When SSB became popular in amateur radio,
hams built entire transmitters, receivers and transceivers for the
mode. Once its popularity was established, manufacturers followed.

When VHF/UHF FM voice became popular in amateur radio, there was a
mix
of homebrew and converted-land-mobile equipment used by hams. Once
its
popularity was established, manufacturers followed.

But from what I can see, the packet folks aren't much interested in
*building radios* from scratch. That's why the old standards are
still
in use.

Bingo!

I recall reading some *years* back about how TAPR was developing a UHF
SS radio for packet. Don't recall that it ever got finished.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Do not forget that in addition to banning certain types of
content, the FCC also forces certain types of content such as
transmitting station ID at specified times in specific format.

It's even worse for broadcasters who also have to transmit EAS
material, renewal filing notices, and sponsorship notices in
addition to station ID.

Remember when stations had to do "public service" or
"community" programs, usually played on Sunday morning?
Stuff nobody ever listened to. There was a time when
you could not find anything at all to listen to on the
radio Sunday morning.

None of the above are the "censorship" which is envisioned in Sec.
326, though.

Be happy for what we have and don't have.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

bb wrote:

bb wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Todd Daugherty wrote:

The
reason amateur radio is going to die is because Amateur radio has
nothing to
offer.

There are thousands and thousands who disagree with you, Todd.
Maybe
what you really mean is that amateur radio has nothing to offer
you.
Feel free to move on. Find another interest.

Heil actually has a point, smug as it is.

I think what we are seeing is the start of this decade's chicken
little
dance.

If only we could introduce Todd to WA8ULX.

Can you figure out the attributions?

From what you've come up with this time, you again have me writing:

"If only we could introduce Todd to WA8ULX."

"Heil actually has a point, smug as it is."

"I think what we are seeing is the start of this decade's chicken little
dance."

The only problem is, I didn't write any of those things. You're
drifting
farther off course, "bb".

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

bb wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
Todd Daugherty wrote:

The
reason amateur radio is going to die is because Amateur radio
has
nothing to
offer.

There are thousands and thousands who disagree with you, Todd.
Maybe
what you really mean is that amateur radio has nothing to offer
you.
Feel free to move on. Find another interest.

Heil actually has a point, smug as it is.

I think what we are seeing is the start of this decade's chicken
little
dance.

If only we could introduce Todd to WA8ULX.

Can you figure out the attributions?

From what you've come up with this time, you again have me writing:

Not.

Why do you say that I'm doing it? I merely hit the reply button and
google performs the attributions.

And it was after the Buzz Lightyear post that you commented about the
attributions being wrong. I think you just need something to complain
about.

Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Dave Heil wrote:
bb wrote:

Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:

"bb" wrote in message

ups.com...

Dave Heil wrote:


If only we could introduce Todd to WA8ULX.

You seem to be having attribution problems, "bb". I did not
write
the
above.

David, I have no attribution problem. I know who said what.
bb

The attributions say otherwise, "bb".

Who you gonna believe?

Given your track record, especially in recent times (see: """....."""
posts by "bb"), I'm going to have to believe my eyes. You have an
attribution problem. You can attempt to argue the point if you like.
That won't change what was posted.

Dave K8MN

David, no argument. I'm merely using googles "reply" button. I think
the goofed attribution came in after Commander Buzz Corey's comment.

Well let's look at some numbers shall we....


The following are the Numbers of people entering the amateur radio service:

DATE TOTAL
--------------------------------------
12/04/04 671,837
01/02/05 667,562 down by 4,275
01/09/05 668,051 up by 489
01/16/05 668,750 up by 735
TOTAL STILL DOWN 3,015

The bottom line numbers really don't lie...people can say amateur radio is
on the rise but the actually truth is the number of people getting in the
service is still down from the previous month

Todd







"Bathrooman" wrote in message
ups.com...
For more than 50 years, some hams have been yelling "Ham Radio is
Dying!" "Ham Radio is Dying!" They came up with all kinds of bright
ideas. Incentive licensing...school clubs...extra-easy study
guides...dumbing down the licensing tests...no code licenses...on and
on. Why do some hams believe ham radio is dying? They are bored with
the hobby themselves! They put together some equipment, strung up
antennas, exchanged signal and weather reports, chased certificates,
collected QSL cards and after a few years or more of this they ask: "Is
this all there is?" Bah Humbug...yup that's about all it is. So what?
What more do you want it to be?





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wrote:



One of the things that has been repeatedly promised and predicted for
the
various license test changes was that we'd get more 'technically
inclined'
new hams, who would revolutionize ham radio with 'new modes and
modulations' and other neat stuff. Yet when it comes to actually
*building radios*, we
see even the self-proclaimed 'professionals in radio' buying them
ready-made.
And ginving those who *do* build their own rigs a raft of $&!# about
doing so.

Kinda makes ya wonder....

You can forget about hams becoming more technical, that is a thing of
the past. Todays hams are strictly plug and play appliance operators,
the most technical they get now is how many push buttons are on the
front panel and how many memories in the radio. The best we can hope for
is that the test be geared such that they learn the rules and proper
operating procedures.

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
...
Todd Daugherty wrote:

The Death of Amateur Radio

By

Todd Daugherty N9OGL

I've been asked on the newsgroup
rec.radio.amateur.policy
to back up my statements regarding the death of amateur radio and the
FCC's
suppression of free speech on the radio. Therefore, I've deiced to write
this paper on the subject. Now, I know there are amateur radio operators
who
will not read this article or will write it off as the writes by some
crack
pot.

Well, Todd, I've read the entire thing and I've not written it off "as
the writes by some crack pot". I've written it off "as the writes by
some" special crackpot.


But one must remember everyone has an opinion; this happens to be mine.

...and you aren't one to allow reality to stand in your way.

Amateur radio is slowing dying; now many amateurs would disagree
with
that statement however, this is a harsh reality.

Well let's look at some numbers shall we....


The following are the Numbers of people entering the amateur radio service:

DATE TOTAL
--------------------------------------
12/04/04 671,837
01/02/05 667,562 down by 4,275
01/09/05 668,051 up by 489
01/16/05 668,750 up by 735
TOTAL STILL DOWN 3,015

The bottom line numbers really don't lie...people can say amateur radio is
on the rise but the actually truth is the number of people getting in the
service is still down from the previous month


Many radio amateurs would disagree with your statement because it has no
basis in fact. Now THAT is harsh reality.

Now as I stated above I
have been asked to "prove it" so that what I'm attending to do. Amateur
radio is dying because it is unable to keep up with commercial services.

Amateur radio isn't a commercial service and isn't in competition with
commercial services. It has no reason to "keep up".

And it's THAT attitude that will kill amateur radio. No one will come to the
service if there is something BETTER out there.

On
February of 2000 I participated in a discussion entitled "What the heck
is
Packet radio go for anyway" which was started by someone named
"Inquisitor"
anyway I pointed out that Packet Radio didn't have the variety as the
internet. If packet was to grow packet would have to basically compete
with
the internet.

Packet radio is not the internet. It has no reason to become like the
internet.

That's YOUR opinion, Packet could be better then the Internet but wait
dumbass like you don't want that.

For amateur radio to survive
they are going to have to compete with the internet or there will be no
amateur radio in near future.

Sure, Todd--and amateur astronomy is going to have to compete with
roller blading or there will be no amateur astronomy in the future.

Not comparable, what you are comparing is two hobbies while I'm comparing
two communication system, One dominate (internet) and the other is a third
class communication system (amateur radio).


As I stated on the newsgroup
rec.radio.amateur.policy look at it this way. Go to streets of your town
as
ask the average person on the street if they had a choice between the
Internet and Amateur radio which one would they pick? The vast majority
of
people would pick the internet. The reason is the internet provides a
vast
variety of information unlike amateur radio. People can talk via email,
chat
rooms, voice communication and other systems over the internet. With
Internet 2 coming out the Internet with grow ever more.

Ask the average man on the street to choose between the stamp collecting
and the internet and he'll likely choose the internet. He knows more
about the internet and stamp collecting has no provision for downloading
pirated music or pornography.

The majority of people don't what amateur radio is...and the vast majority
of people don't care.

Amateur radio has variety of information unlike the internet. People
can talk via their voices, via Morse, via keyboard modes, via
television. The two are not the same thing. That's why I'm introducing
Amateur Radio II, aka Amateur Radio Lite. It'll be like amateur radio
but without all of the icky stuff like "RF", "IF", fomulae and morse
code. It'll draw those folks who are "otherwise qualified" and mildly
interested.
Voice, Morse code, television on and on can ALL be done on the internet.
what amateurs need to is advance and come up with something a lot new...My
packet idea is one way.

Why should someone
take the time to get a license to talk to people all over the world via
radio when they can do it on the internet?

Why would someone take up tightrope walking when there are perfectly
good sidewalks? Why would anyone walk when they can drive a car?


One of the problems that helps propagate this no competing attitude is
both
the amateur and FCC's view on content control.

Ahhhh. This is where Todd gets into his favorite rant.

Section 326 of the Communication Act of 1934 prohibits the FCC for
controlling the content of ANY radio station. This also applies to the
amateur radio service. However, this seems NOT to be the case.

You've been given free advice from a professional in the field. You've
chosen to ignore the advice because it conflicts with your rather
uneducated view of the regulations.

No but this bull**** idea that you have to be a lawyer to read rules and
regulation which are straight forward is that bull****.

When I
announced on the newsgroup about my Information bulletin I received a
post
from Riley Hollingsworth the FCC chief enforcer of the amateur radio
service. Telling me to let him know when I go on the air so he can send
me a
"QSL CARD". The QSL card he was of course talking about was a warning
letter. This of course is not the first time Mr. Hollingsworth who works
for
the FCC tried to suppress Free Speech.

A smarter fellow would have taken the hint which Mr. Hollingsworth
dropped.
First off the system wasn't up and running so he should of shut his ****ing
mouth because information bulletins are LEGAL. My information bulletins run
on one day, for one hour and deal with amateur radio issues....thus legal.
If it's interfering with transmission (which it isn't) fine then go after
the interference but to get on a newsgroups and intimidate a system BEFORE
IT'S EVEN ON is showing how he and the ****ing FCC really are...ASSHOLES!

In 1990 the
FCC sent letters out to 19 Net and Bulletin stations on 20 meters and of
course the ARRL a.k.a. The Amateur Radio Nazi Party deiced to stick
their
Gestapo free speech suppression nose in it.

I doubt that the ARRL "deiced" anything. Your choice of nicknames
further marks you as a very special crackpot.

I was asked on
the newsgroup to prove how I'm being suppressed. Well, when you have a
FCC
official threaten you with a warning letter over your Information
bulletin
which hadn't even begun. Then the idea if suppression of Free Speech by
a
Federal agency is a primary example of my right to voice my opinion is
being
suppressed by the FCC.

You were repeatedly asked which things you were being prevented from
saying over the air via amateur radio. You never bothered to reply.
You've provided the FCC enough ammunition through your public statements
here, to nail your hide to the barn door if you decide that you want to
play boy broadcaster.

Intimidate someone before they have the system is even up and running is a
form of suppression. secondly if you didn't read above my information
bulletins are legal. My information bulletins run on one day, for one hour
and deal with amateur radio issues. They are legal regardless of what you
think.


Todd N9OGL


Dave K8MN




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"Todd Daugherty" wrote in message
...
Well let's look at some numbers shall we....


The following are the Numbers of people entering the amateur radio
service:

DATE TOTAL
--------------------------------------
12/04/04 671,837
01/02/05 667,562 down by 4,275
01/09/05 668,051 up by 489
01/16/05 668,750 up by 735
TOTAL STILL DOWN 3,015

The bottom line numbers really don't lie...people can say amateur radio is
on the rise but the actually truth is the number of people getting in the
service is still down from the previous month

Todd


And as any competent statistician can tell you, a variation over this short
time frame for this type of data is not likely to be significant. You have
to look at longer term data. In addition, changes of less than 1% are
seldom signficant.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE