wrote:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in
. 30:


wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino

has

fallen.

How many countries does that make now, compared to those who

still

have it?


It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I
think at
least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the
Netherlands,
Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore,
Australia,
New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have
abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only

Austria

and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence that
doesn't give HF privileges.
That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some

out. I make the combined ham population of the above something

over

260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so

probably

a little less
than half the number of hams in the US.

260,000/670,000 = about 38.9%


Quite a bit less than half.

However, there are well over
50,000 hams in Canada, which is also likely to abolish the code

test

very soon.

Yep. But there are two big points about Canada:

1) The proposal would increase the written test level


This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the
same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the
writtens.

I'd like that quite a bit.

IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test
optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on
theory to get the license.

Now that just seems strange. The test should either be or not be. Not
some kind of bonus that allows you to be less technically proficient.

If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they
might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC
telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more.

And how! Let's not forget that NCI also supports lowering the test
requirements.

All they have to go on is "gut" feelings. And unfortunately, the first
wave of no-code Technicians appear to be dropping like flies. "Gut"
feelings can be wrong.

Theirs is a failed and incorrect paradigm.

We don't need hams that thought that maybe it would be kewl to get a
ham license some weekend between coffee at Starbucks and their Pilates
classes, and then forget about it. We need hams who want to be hams.


2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority
favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey
done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC.


Another biggie.


Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million
(twice

that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general
population), has
long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts.

Check your numbers!

Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost
nothing and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham
operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day hams.

Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have
been dropping for a decade. The number of new JA licenses has also been dropping.
See the AH0A website.


I'm not sure
how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence,

Well over 95%.


but they may even
rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new
guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of
time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway.

All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for
decades.

But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a
code test. And there's no move to change that yet.


And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast.
*With* nocodetest HF.


Quick! Let's emulate Japan! Except we can do it better by allowing the
newbies full power privileges.

Japan's obvious success can be our own!

Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of
no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably
about the same as the number of no-code Techs in the US.


Close enough.

And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without
any incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here?


The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different
rules.

I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not
knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying to
hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she
simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design of
the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a ride
on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if we
don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.

It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.


That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for
itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.


Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:25:40 -0500, Mike Coslo wrote:

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.

"Here lies ol' John McStencil
He drew arcs from his finals with a lead pencil"

(More-or-less recalled caption from a QST "Switch to Safety" cartoon
of 50+ years ago)

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

wrote in news:1108745797.245365.147250
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:
wrote in news:1108665611.010471.49400
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:


A tiny fraction of the number of countries which are members of
the UN and/or the ITU.

About 10% as a matter of fact. A minority, but not quite my idea of
a

'tiny' fraction. The point is, of course, that we are far from done
yet. Canada may be next.

One more out of 185 or so snore. Let's see here . . where's my
sliderule . . . if four "dominoes" per year fall, which is about the
current rate and the rate is maintained it'll be 2046 before the
last code test requirement is dropped.


Most of those other 170+ are pretty small, although you choose to
mention the big ones by name of course.

Of course, because first of all it's the big countries which set trends
at least regionally and it's their huge numbers of citizens who would
potentially be most affected by changes in ham radio regs. Which is a
whole different topic from the effects on their existing ham
populations whatever their number.


What you call Old Europe isn't socialist by any rational standards,
unless you are an extreme neo-con republican? I'll take that as a yes.

Don't because you couldn't be more wrong.


My point is that
governments make these kinds of decisions based on their
culture-based inclinations in such matters. Which is to say that the
former Soviets, Brazil, India and China are not socialist giveaway
swamps like Sweden, France and the rest and are far less likely to
quit the code tests.

Last time I checked France and Sweden were capitalist countries and
China was socialist.

They're both socialist Alun. The only difference being that China uses
the Marx/Lennin model and Sweden is the model for Old Europe socialism.



As for Russia, the old communists seem to be taking over again, albeit
they don't actually care what system they rule over, nor ever did,
IMHO.

Never in their thousand year history have the Russians lived in a
democracy or a capitalist society, their genes need to be conditioned
before they get their act together by western standards. In the
meanwhile they're suffering from massive startup lumps and bumps which
were predicted long before the Soviet Union actually imploded. Whatever
this has to do with code tests.

I'm sure it will be a great comfort to you if the Russian
Federation is the last to keep a code test. They are not my idea of
anyone I would want to emulate, however.

But emulating Sweden is OK huh?

n3kip

w3rv



Sure, why not?

BINGO: There it is. Old Europe. Sez it all.

Not in your lifetime Alun.

'Bye.

w3rv



We have very different political views. I don't know how you would classify
yourself, but by European standards you are very far to the right indeed,
as by no stretch is Sweden a socialist country.

As for myself, I used to be a card carrying member of the Conservative and
Unionist Party in the UK, but I freely admit that I have drifted leftwards
since then, very likely as a result of seeing at first hand the huge social
inequalities in the USA.

If it's called being a socialist to think that the ordinary working man
should be able to get medical care without courting bankruptcy, then I
suppose that makes me a socialist, but if you actually look in a
dictionary, then you will see that I am not, and neither are the Swedes.

socialism // n.
1 a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates
that the community as a whole should own and control the means of
production, distribution, and exchange.
2 policy or practice based on this theory.
socialist n. & adj.
socialistic // adj.
socialistically // adv.
[French socialisme (as social)]

wrote in news:1108746634.174440.129880
@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:
wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in
:

wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino
has fallen.

How many countries does that make now, compared to those who
still have it?

It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I
think at
least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the
Netherlands,
Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore,
Australia,
New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have
abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only
Austria and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence
that doesn't give HF privileges.

That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some

out. I make the combined ham population of the above something
over
260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so
probably
a little less
than half the number of hams in the US.

260,000/670,000 = about 38.9%

Quite a bit less than half.

However, there are well over 50,000 hams in Canada, which is also
likely to abolish the code test very soon.

Yep. But there are two big points about Canada:

1) The proposal would increase the written test level

This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the
same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the
writtens.

IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test
optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on
theory to get the license.


They proposed that in South Africa too, but they didn't do it, and I don't
think they will in Canada either, judging solely from having read all the
public comments

If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they
might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC
telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more.

2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority
favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey
done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC.

Another biggie.

Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million
(twice that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general
population), has
long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts.

Check your numbers!

Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost nothing
and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham
operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day
hams.

Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have
been dropping for a decade.

The number of new JA licenses has also been dropping.

See the AH0A website.

I'm not sure
how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence,

Well over 95%.

but they may even
rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new
guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of
time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway.

All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for
decades.

But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a
code test. And there's no move to change that yet.

And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast.
*With* nocodetest HF.

Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of
no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably about
the same as the
number of no-code Techs in the US.

Close enough.

And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without any
incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here?

The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different
rules.

Same aether (OK, I don't really beleive in an aether, but you know what I
mean)

It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.

That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for
itself.

Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.

The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.

Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?

No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries

So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

73 de Jim, N2EY


Perfectly true, but I see getting these people onto HF as a good thing

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

wrote:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in
.30:


wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino

has

fallen.

How many countries does that make now, compared to those who

still

have it?


It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I
think at
least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the
Netherlands,
Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore,
Australia,
New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have
abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only

Austria

and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence that
doesn't give HF privileges.
That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some

out. I make the combined ham population of the above something

over

260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so

probably

a little less
than half the number of hams in the US.

260,000/670,000 = about 38.9%


Quite a bit less than half.

However, there are well over
50,000 hams in Canada, which is also likely to abolish the code

test

very soon.

Yep. But there are two big points about Canada:

1) The proposal would increase the written test level


This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the
same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the
writtens.

I'd like that quite a bit.

IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test
optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on
theory to get the license.

Now that just seems strange. The test should either be or not be.
Not
some kind of bonus that allows you to be less technically proficient.

If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they
might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC
telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more.

And how! Let's not forget that NCI also supports lowering the test
requirements.

All they have to go on is "gut" feelings. And unfortunately, the
first
wave of no-code Technicians appear to be dropping like flies. "Gut"
feelings can be wrong.

Theirs is a failed and incorrect paradigm.

We don't need hams that thought that maybe it would be kewl to get
a
ham license some weekend between coffee at Starbucks and their Pilates
classes, and then forget about it. We need hams who want to be hams.


2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority
favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey
done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC.


Another biggie.


Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million
(twice

that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general
population), has
long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts.

Check your numbers!

Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost
nothing and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham
operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day
hams.

Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have
been dropping for a decade. The number of new JA licenses has also
been dropping.
See the AH0A website.


I'm not sure
how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence,

Well over 95%.


but they may even
rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new
guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of
time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway.

All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for
decades.

But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a
code test. And there's no move to change that yet.


And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast.
*With* nocodetest HF.


Quick! Let's emulate Japan! Except we can do it better by allowing
the
newbies full power privileges.

Japan's obvious success can be our own!

Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of
no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably
about the same as the number of no-code Techs in the US.


Close enough.

And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without any
incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here?


The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different
rules.

I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not
knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying
to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she
simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design
of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn
and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.

It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.


That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.


Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it
out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -




Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many
Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding them above 30 MHz is a
problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem.

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not
knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying
to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she
simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design
of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn
and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.


It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.



That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.



Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it
out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.

Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many
Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od learning
Morse code! ;^)

As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of the
person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem
with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth
getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when their
license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the codeless
Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license.


Herding them above 30 MHz is a
problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

[big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??]



Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying that
the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been
many
Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding them above 30 MHz is a
problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem.

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must comply
with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old novice subbands,
and we should comply with the band plans.

There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman
not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when
trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what
if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent
design of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful
burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.


It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.



That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a
few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.



Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make
it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.

Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been
many Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od
learning
Morse code! ;^)


So did I, but it was hell!

If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman

As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of
the
person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem
with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth
getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when
their
license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the
codeless
Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license.


Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I couldn't
say.


Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but
still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -


You mean the part that doesn't refract from the ionosphere, right?

73 de Alun, N3KIP

"Dee Flint" wrote in
:


"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

[big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??]



Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying
that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have
always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding
them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a
problem.

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must
comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old
novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans.

Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules be
changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't
refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any kind.


There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in, but
jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).