wrote:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in
. 30:


wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino

has

fallen.

How many countries does that make now, compared to those who

still

have it?


It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I
think at
least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the
Netherlands,
Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore,
Australia,
New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have
abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only

Austria

and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence that
doesn't give HF privileges.
That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some

out. I make the combined ham population of the above something

over

260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so

probably

a little less
than half the number of hams in the US.

260,000/670,000 = about 38.9%


Quite a bit less than half.

However, there are well over
50,000 hams in Canada, which is also likely to abolish the code

test

very soon.

Yep. But there are two big points about Canada:

1) The proposal would increase the written test level


This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the
same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the
writtens.

I'd like that quite a bit.

IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test
optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on
theory to get the license.

Now that just seems strange. The test should either be or not be. Not
some kind of bonus that allows you to be less technically proficient.

If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they
might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC
telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more.

And how! Let's not forget that NCI also supports lowering the test
requirements.

All they have to go on is "gut" feelings. And unfortunately, the first
wave of no-code Technicians appear to be dropping like flies. "Gut"
feelings can be wrong.

Theirs is a failed and incorrect paradigm.

We don't need hams that thought that maybe it would be kewl to get a
ham license some weekend between coffee at Starbucks and their Pilates
classes, and then forget about it. We need hams who want to be hams.


2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority
favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey
done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC.


Another biggie.


Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million
(twice

that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general
population), has
long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts.

Check your numbers!

Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost
nothing and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham
operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day hams.

Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have
been dropping for a decade. The number of new JA licenses has also been dropping.
See the AH0A website.


I'm not sure
how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence,

Well over 95%.


but they may even
rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new
guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of
time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway.

All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for
decades.

But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a
code test. And there's no move to change that yet.


And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast.
*With* nocodetest HF.


Quick! Let's emulate Japan! Except we can do it better by allowing the
newbies full power privileges.

Japan's obvious success can be our own!

Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of
no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably
about the same as the number of no-code Techs in the US.


Close enough.

And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without
any incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here?


The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different
rules.

I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not
knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying to
hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she
simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design of
the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a ride
on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if we
don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.

It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.


That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for
itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.


Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 19:25:40 -0500, Mike Coslo wrote:

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.

"Here lies ol' John McStencil
He drew arcs from his finals with a lead pencil"

(More-or-less recalled caption from a QST "Switch to Safety" cartoon
of 50+ years ago)

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

wrote:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

wrote in news:1108637750.922635.205620
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in
.30:


wrote in news:1108578593.250795.201100
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Yes, South Africa has abolished the code test! One more domino

has

fallen.

How many countries does that make now, compared to those who

still

have it?


It's getting a little difficult to keep track. However, I
think at
least the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, the
Netherlands,
Luxembourg, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Singapore,
Australia,
New Zealand, Papua Niugini, Hong Kong and South Africa have
abolished the code test so far. I think that of these only

Austria

and the Netherlands even retain an entry level licence that
doesn't give HF privileges.
That's only 17 countries, but I expect I may have missed some

out. I make the combined ham population of the above something

over

260,000 (possibly more than half of them no-coders), so

probably

a little less
than half the number of hams in the US.

260,000/670,000 = about 38.9%


Quite a bit less than half.

However, there are well over
50,000 hams in Canada, which is also likely to abolish the code

test

very soon.

Yep. But there are two big points about Canada:

1) The proposal would increase the written test level


This is a biggie. Simply proposing to drop the code test is *not* the
same thing as proposing to drop the code test *and* beef up the
writtens.

I'd like that quite a bit.

IIRC, one of the things proposed in Canada was to make the code test
optional in that if you passed code you didn't need as high a grade on
theory to get the license.

Now that just seems strange. The test should either be or not be.
Not
some kind of bonus that allows you to be less technically proficient.

If the nocodetest folks in the USA proposed options like those they
might get a lot more support. But instead, we have folks like NCVEC
telling us we must drop code *and* reduce the written still more.

And how! Let's not forget that NCI also supports lowering the test
requirements.

All they have to go on is "gut" feelings. And unfortunately, the
first
wave of no-code Technicians appear to be dropping like flies. "Gut"
feelings can be wrong.

Theirs is a failed and incorrect paradigm.

We don't need hams that thought that maybe it would be kewl to get
a
ham license some weekend between coffee at Starbucks and their Pilates
classes, and then forget about it. We need hams who want to be hams.


2) Commentary to the Canadian proposal showed a clear majority
favored the change. That's not the case in the USA, in any survey
done to date, nor in the commentary to FCC.


Another biggie.


Don't forget that Japan, with a ham population of 1.2 Million
(twice

that of the US, out of maybe a fifth of your general
population), has
long had a no-code HF licence, albeit limited to 10 Watts.

Check your numbers!

Japan has over 3.1 million operator licenses - but they cost
nothing and never expire, so that number is really the number of ham
operator licenses issued since 1955, not the number of present-day
hams.

Japanese *station* licenses are a bit over 600,000 now, and have
been dropping for a decade. The number of new JA licenses has also
been dropping.
See the AH0A website.


I'm not sure
how many Japanese hams have a no-code HF licence,

Well over 95%.


but they may even
rival all the new ones so far put together, although the new
guys can use more than 10 Watts! It's probably only a matter of
time before Japan lets all of their hams use HF anyway.

All Japanese hams have HF privileges *today*. Been that way for
decades.

But for all classes of ham license except 4th class, JA hams have a
code test. And there's no move to change that yet.


And for ten years JA ham license numbers have been dropping fast.
*With* nocodetest HF.


Quick! Let's emulate Japan! Except we can do it better by allowing
the
newbies full power privileges.

Japan's obvious success can be our own!

Even without the low power Japanese stations, the number of
no-coders who have full HF privileges right now is probably
about the same as the number of no-code Techs in the US.


Close enough.

And if there are already that number of no-code hams on HF without any
incident, what is the problem with abolishing the code test here?


The USA isn't Japan. Different society, different culture, different
rules.

I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not
knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying
to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she
simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design
of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn
and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.

It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.


That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.


Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it
out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -




Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many
Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding them above 30 MHz is a
problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem.

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman not
knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when trying
to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what if she
simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent design
of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful burn
and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.


It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.



That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.



Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make it
out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.

Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been many
Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od learning
Morse code! ;^)

As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of the
person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem
with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth
getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when their
license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the codeless
Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license.


Herding them above 30 MHz is a
problem, not for you perhaps, but still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman
not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when
trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what
if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent
design of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful
burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.


It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.



That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a
few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.



Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make
it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.

Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been
many Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od
learning
Morse code! ;^)


So did I, but it was hell!

If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman

As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of
the
person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem
with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth
getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when
their
license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the
codeless
Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license.


Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I couldn't
say.


Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but
still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -


You mean the part that doesn't refract from the ionosphere, right?

73 de Alun, N3KIP

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but lets
say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman
not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when
trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but what
if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?- negligent
design of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig, and
is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies on
the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful lawsuits
already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful
burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit if
we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be a
Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle full
legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second to
drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control op can
react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power safety
requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.



It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.




That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because a
few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict individual
ownership of firearms, too.




Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make
it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.


Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always been
many Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od
learning Morse code! ;^)


So did I, but it was hell!

Yeah, for me too! 6 months of daily studying, one failed test, and
finally passing it. I think that my brain processes audio differently
than does those people with normal hearing.

If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman

Don't take it personally! Some people learn Morse pretty easily, and
for some it is hard. Is it a hazing process if it is easy? Same goes for
the writtens.

I can assure you that no group of Hams ever sat down and said "Let's
give this Coslo guy a rough time and make him learn Morse code".


As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of
the person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the problem
with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it worth
getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when
their license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the
codeless Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their license.

Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I couldn't
say.

That would certainly be an interesting outlook for a person. Let us say
that a person became a ham in 1994, and has a combined intense interest
in operation below 30 MHz, and deep seated conviction against Morse code
testing, leading to refusal to take the Element 1 test.

Somehow doesn't ring true.

I think that those who want to get rid of Element one testing would be
better off to not try that argument.

That would be reminiscent of the old "Jump Frog" joke!


Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but
still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -



You mean the part that doesn't refract from the ionosphere, right?

Let us not forget 6 meters.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but
lets say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman
not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when
trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but
what if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?-
negligent design of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig,
and is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies
on the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful
lawsuits already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful
burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit
if we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be
a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle
full legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second
to drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control
op can react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power
safety requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.



It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.




That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because
a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict
individual ownership of firearms, too.




Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make
it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.


Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always
been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od
learning Morse code! ;^)


So did I, but it was hell!

Yeah, for me too! 6 months of daily studying, one failed test, and
finally passing it. I think that my brain processes audio differently
than does those people with normal hearing.


I have not posted this point for a long time, as it provokes extreme
reactions from the pro code test lobby, but I can beat your 6 months. It
took me 22 years. Can you honestly wonder that I feel the way I do?

If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman

Don't take it personally! Some people learn Morse pretty easily,
and
for some it is hard. Is it a hazing process if it is easy? Same goes
for the writtens.

I can assure you that no group of Hams ever sat down and said
"Let's
give this Coslo guy a rough time and make him learn Morse code".


As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of
the person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the
problem with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it
worth getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when
their license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the
codeless Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their
license.

Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I
couldn't say.

That would certainly be an interesting outlook for a person. Let
us say
that a person became a ham in 1994, and has a combined intense interest
in operation below 30 MHz, and deep seated conviction against Morse
code testing, leading to refusal to take the Element 1 test.

Somehow doesn't ring true.

It was true enough of me, although I became a no-code ham in 1980 (in the
UK), more or less in defeat at having tried unsuccessfully to learn Morse
code ever since 1970, and passed a code test in 1992.

Getting a no-code licence was something I only did because I was resigned
to not getting the HF access that I wanted. It was a case of thinking it
was silly to stay off the air altogether just because I couldn't get on HF,
and it took me a long time, i.e. 10 years, to grudgingly reach that
conclusion.

Eventually passing the code test was helped by software that didn't exist
back in 1970, and the help of dear friends who took turns to send slow CW
transmissions several times a week that I knew were being done mainly just
for my benefit. Sure, others tuned in, but they stopped sending them when I
passed! I owe them a great deal.

Here's another interesting fact. I was teaching ham radio classes for years
before I passed the bleeping code!

If none of this rings true, I can assure that every word is the truth.

As I said, all of this has been posted here before, but not recently. My
own history hasn't proved as effective as an argument as simply pointing
out that none of the arguments in favour of retaining code testing hold as
much water as a leaky bucket!


I think that those who want to get rid of Element one testing
would be
better off to not try that argument.

That would be reminiscent of the old "Jump Frog" joke!


Except that the circumstances I describe never struck me as a joke.


Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but
still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -



You mean the part that doesn't refract from the ionosphere, right?

Let us not forget 6 meters.

- Mike KB3EIA -



The magic band is the exception that proves the rule!

73 de Alun, N3KIP, G8VUK

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote in
:



Alun L. Palmer wrote:



Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but
lets say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a woman
not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself when
trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but
what if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?-
negligent design of the cup?)

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt rig,
and is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey thingies
on the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful
lawsuits already!

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a painful
burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful lawsuit
if we don't train them well.

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one should be
a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to handle
full legal limit.


And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a second
to drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the control
op can react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full power
safety requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.




It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written* exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and new
operator licenses is way down.





That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test because
a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.


Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish the
code test.


The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict
individual ownership of firearms, too.





Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that have
dropped code testing?


No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people make
it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -





Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things they
want to do in the hobby too.



Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have always
been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od
learning Morse code! ;^)


So did I, but it was hell!

Yeah, for me too! 6 months of daily studying, one failed test, and
finally passing it. I think that my brain processes audio differently
than does those people with normal hearing.



I have not posted this point for a long time, as it provokes extreme
reactions from the pro code test lobby, but I can beat your 6 months. It
took me 22 years. Can you honestly wonder that I feel the way I do?

That is quite a long time. What was the reason that it took you 22
years? My reason was hearing problems, and a presumed mental processing
of sound deficit.

What was the total study time?

If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman

Don't take it personally! Some people learn Morse pretty easily,
and for some it is hard. Is it a hazing process if it is easy? Same goes
for the writtens. I can assure you that no group of Hams ever sat down and said
"Let's give this Coslo guy a rough time and make him learn Morse code".



As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth of
the person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the
problem with normal people for which the test is too hard to make it
worth getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks when
their license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the
codeless Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their
license.


Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I
couldn't say.

That would certainly be an interesting outlook for a person. Let
us say
that a person became a ham in 1994, and has a combined intense interest
in operation below 30 MHz, and deep seated conviction against Morse
code testing, leading to refusal to take the Element 1 test.

Somehow doesn't ring true.


It was true enough of me, although I became a no-code ham in 1980 (in the
UK), more or less in defeat at having tried unsuccessfully to learn Morse
code ever since 1970, and passed a code test in 1992.

Getting a no-code licence was something I only did because I was resigned
to not getting the HF access that I wanted. It was a case of thinking it
was silly to stay off the air altogether just because I couldn't get on HF,
and it took me a long time, i.e. 10 years, to grudgingly reach that
conclusion.

Eventually passing the code test was helped by software that didn't exist
back in 1970, and the help of dear friends who took turns to send slow CW
transmissions several times a week that I knew were being done mainly just
for my benefit. Sure, others tuned in, but they stopped sending them when I
passed! I owe them a great deal.

Here's another interesting fact. I was teaching ham radio classes for years
before I passed the bleeping code!

If none of this rings true, I can assure that every word is the truth.

I believe you. And you didn't do what my hypothetical Technician did
either. You kept with it an eventually passed


As I said, all of this has been posted here before, but not recently. My
own history hasn't proved as effective as an argument as simply pointing
out that none of the arguments in favour of retaining code testing hold as
much water as a leaky bucket!

Except here is what I see as the difference. You had difficulties with
Element one, and so did I. You want the test eliminated because you had
a hard time of it. I don't want the test removed just because of my
personal trouble with it.

We all have walls to climb in life. Some peoples walls are higher than
others. I'll climb my own walls, and not try to change everyone elses
walls. YMMV.




I think that those who want to get rid of Element one testing
would be
better off to not try that argument.

That would be reminiscent of the old "Jump Frog" joke!


Except that the circumstances I describe never struck me as a joke.

I had enough problems that it was no joke to me either. But my point
wasn't about the test specifically, it was the conclusion that people
reach regarding Morse code testing and the people coming into or leaving
the ARS.


Just so you know what the joke was about:



A scientist was conducting an experiment.

He took a frog, and sat it on the floor. Then he said:

"Jump, frog, Jump!"

The frog jumps 6 feet.

The scientist writes in his notebook *Frog with four legs jumps 6 feet*.

Then he cuts off one of the frog's legs...

"Jump, frog, Jump!"

The frog jumps 4 feet.

The scientist writes in his notebook *Frog with three legs jumps 4 feet*.

He cuts off another leg.

"Jump, frog, Jump!"

The frog jumps 2 feet.

The scientist writes in his notebook *Frog with two legs jumps 2 feet*.

Then he cuts off the third leg.

"Jump, frog, Jump!"

With a mighty struggle, the frog jumps 1 feet.

The scientist writes in his notebook *Frog with 1 leg jumps 1 foot*.

Then he cuts off the final leg.

"Jump, frog, Jump!"

The frog just sits there.

"Jump, frog, Jump!"

The frog still just sits there.


The scientist writes in his notebook *Frog with no legs is deaf.





Herding them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but
still a problem.

"Herding" is a strange name for allowing access to almost all the
Amateur spectrum.

- Mike KB3EIA -



You mean the part that doesn't refract from the ionosphere, right?

Let us not forget 6 meters.

- Mike KB3EIA -




The magic band is the exception that proves the rule!

73 de Alun, N3KIP, G8VUK

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Alun L. Palmer wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote in
:

some snippage



I don't know if any of us geniuses have though about it, but
lets say
in a country where a business can get successfully sued for a
woman
not knowing that here hot coffee was hot, and burning herself
when
trying to hold the darn thing between her legs. (sorry Phil, but
what if she simply ruined her dress because the coffee was wet?-
negligent design of the cup?)

The case centered around the fact that the coffee was *extremely* and
unreasonably hot.

So lets have a newbie ham that fires up his/her kilowatt
rig,
and is
half fried because no one told him not to touch the wirey
thingies
on the back of the box thingy. Ohh, I can see the successful
lawsuits already!

So what?

There's no license required to operate houshold appliances, nor power
tools,
which can be extremely dangerous. There's no skills test to pump your
own
gasoline. Or to climb a ladder.

I've nailed myself with 50 watts, enough to produce a
painful
burn and
a cute little scar on the boo-boo finger. Some dunce that
catches a
ride on a thousand watts might just have a very successful
lawsuit
if we don't train them well.

Who are they going to sue? And on what grounds, compared to other
electronic devices?

RF Safety should be the FIRST order of the day, and NO one
should be
a Ham until they are tested for RF safety to the ability to
handle
full legal limit.

The reason for the RF safety questions is to prevent exposing *others*
to
a hazard.

And the FCC has determined that the RF safety requirements of the
Tech test are adequate for hams who use up to 1500 W power output on
"meat-cooking frequencies".

And those who think that limiting the finals voltage, or
some
other
weird thing is the answer, are advised to think about things
such as
Technician Hams operating under supervision. It only takes a
second
to drop a paper and reach behind a Rig. Less time than the
control
op can react. I want those Technicians to be exposed to full
power
safety requirements.

Anything else is criminally negligent.

But they are already tested on full-power requirements.

It would be interesting to see what the JA 4th class *written*
exam
looks like.

And as mentioned before, the number of JA station licenses and
new
operator licenses is way down.

That's 18, I didn't count both Austria and Australia!

OK. But it's still a small fraction of the number of hams
and the number of countries.

The big questions: Must all countries drop the code test
because
a few have decided to? Or can each country decide for itself.



Each country can do as it chooses, but the trend is to abolish
the
code test.

The trend in most countries is to ban or severely restrict
individual ownership of firearms, too.

Has the change caused lots of new growth in countries that
have
dropped code testing?

No, but it's increased HF activity in those countries


So all it's done is to permit *existing* hams to upgrade. But
it
*hasn't* brought in lots of new folks.

Which means the Morse code isn't the "problem" some people
make
it out
to be.


- Mike KB3EIA -

Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but
they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do.

People who have not passed the test have been kept out of things
they
want to do in the hobby too.

Not that I'm saying that the
Tech theory should get you full privileges,

Why shouldn't they?

What is so special about HF that it requires so much more
testing than VHF/UHF?

There's propagation - big deal, it's already covered in the
Tech test, since Techs who have passed code can operate on
4 HF bands.

There's band edges - another no-counter, just add a couple
of questions.

There are no modes, technologies, or power levels allowed
to Generals or Extras that are not allowed to Techs.

So if you say that there is no *need* for code testing
to get a General or Extra, then you must logically also
accept the argument that there is no *need* for about
95% of what's in the General and Extra tests as well.

but there have always
been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory.

Most could not.

Yup, Like me. But I apparently showed the character flaw od
learning Morse code! ;^)

So did I, but it was hell!

Yeah, for me too! 6 months of daily studying, one failed test,
and
finally passing it. I think that my brain processes audio
differently
than does those people with normal hearing.


I have not posted this point for a long time, as it provokes extreme
reactions from the pro code test lobby, but I can beat your 6 months.
It
took me 22 years.

The most extreme reactions I see are those of a few anticode types. Not
you,
Alun.

Can you honestly wonder that I feel the way I do?

Why did it take 22 years?

And didn't you wind up passing the 20 wpm test?

If it wasn't a hazing process, then I'm a Dutchman

Don't take it personally! Some people learn Morse pretty
easily,
and
for some it is hard. Is it a hazing process if it is easy? Same
goes
for the writtens.

Exactly!

Some people have a very hard time with math. Others with rote
memorization
of things like band edges.

I can assure you that no group of Hams ever sat down and said
"Let's
give this Coslo guy a rough time and make him learn Morse code".

As a guy who can't "hear" people unless he can see the mouth
of
the person speaking, I have just a little trouble figuring out the
problem with normal people for which the test is too hard to make
it
worth getting a license.

But it is! Witness all those who are dropping off the ranks
when
their license expires.

I predict the next tack of the NCI's is that not allowing the
codeless Techs HF access is why they aren't renewing their
license.

Certainly that must be true of some of them. What proportion, I
couldn't say.

That would certainly be an interesting outlook for a person.
Let
us say
that a person became a ham in 1994, and has a combined intense
interest
in operation below 30 MHz, and deep seated conviction against Morse
code testing, leading to refusal to take the Element 1 test.

Somehow doesn't ring true.

It was true enough of me, although I became a no-code ham in 1980 (in
the
UK), more or less in defeat at having tried unsuccessfully to learn
Morse
code ever since 1970, and passed a code test in 1992.

Getting a no-code licence was something I only did because I was
resigned
to not getting the HF access that I wanted. It was a case of thinking
it
was silly to stay off the air altogether just because I couldn't get
on HF,
and it took me a long time, i.e. 10 years, to grudgingly reach that
conclusion.

WHat were the tesrt requirements in the UK then? Here in the USA, the
Novice
and Tech were 5 wpm in that time period.

Eventually passing the code test was helped by software that didn't
exist
back in 1970, and the help of dear friends who took turns to send
slow CW
transmissions several times a week that I knew were being done mainly
just
for my benefit. Sure, others tuned in, but they stopped sending them
when I
passed! I owe them a great deal.

Code training software for PCs was common here in EPA by the early
1980s. I still have old copies that run on DOS 3.2..

In the 1970s and 1980s, HF was full of non-amateur Morse operation. And
the
now-changed treaty required code tests.

Here's another interesting fact. I was teaching ham radio classes for
years
before I passed the bleeping code!

If none of this rings true, I can assure that every word is the
truth.

But why did it take you so long, Alun?

What study methods did you use?

And note that here in the USA, full privileges have been available
with just a 5 wpm code test *since 1990*. Of course a medical waiver
was needed before 2000, but all such a waiver required was a simple
letter from a medical doctor.

As I said, all of this has been posted here before, but not recently.
My
own history hasn't proved as effective as an argument as simply
pointing
out that none of the arguments in favour of retaining code testing
hold as
much water as a leaky bucket!

Apply you anticodetest arguments to the written tests. Tell us why most
of the written tests must remain. Heck, NCVEC is already trying to
trash the writtens even more...

Is it *really* so unreasonable to require Element 1? Particularly
considering the training aids and accomodations now available?

73 de Jim, N2EY