"Dee Flint" wrote in
:


"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

[big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??]



Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying
that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have
always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding
them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a
problem.

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must
comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old
novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans.

Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules be
changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't
refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any kind.


There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in, but
jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

[big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??]

Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but
they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying
that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have

always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding
them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a
problem.

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must

comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old
novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans.

Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules
be
changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't
refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any
kind.

Quite true, Alun, but that isn't the real subject for morsemen.

The morsemen insist and insist and insist on keeping the
morse test because that is what They had to undergo. If
They had to do it, then all others must do it.

U.S. amateur radio was never chartered to be a living museum of
archaic radiotelegraphy skills. There is no need to maintain any
morse telegraphic skills through federal subsidy of any kind in
this new millennium.

But, to most morsemen, having developed the telegraphy skill,
they have a bragging right to show their "superiority" in radio.
Never mind that such "superiority" is one of myth and fantasy
and exists today solely in amateur radio. Morsemen have
bought into their Belief system that the federal government Must
support/defend/cherish morse skills because that is the way
They believe.

In a few it is the fear of loss of their "greatness" in radio
(of the amateur variety) as they age. They desperately want
to preserve their status and their Beliefs that they bought
into long ago. They dare not change anything in their
hobby...such change is perceived as a threat to their
survival...so they rationalize the radiotelegraphy "need"
and bitterly condemn all who seek change.

There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in,
but
jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).

Alun, you didn't "start" that. You have to understand that
morsemen (and morsepersons) MUST retain all regulations as
they are now. To change them might result in loss of the
morse test andthat is something they cannot abide. Ergo,
the rationalization that LAWS MUST BE OBEYED and, by very
strong inference, those laws cannot ever be changed!

Of course laws must be obeyed. There would be no reason to
have them if they weren't. However, there is NO reason to
prohibit CHANGE of law by established, rightful democratic-
principle action. However, CHANGE is anathema to
morsepeople for, if some laws on amateur radio are changed,
then the morse code test necessity might be changed.
They can't have that.

So, there is this self-righteous insistence on "legality" of
obeyance and the rejection (an illegality itself) of the
ability to change law.
[by any means possible, apparently...:-) ]

wrote in news:1108923304.842883.81670
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
.. .
Mike Coslo wrote in
:

[big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??]

Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but
they couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm
saying that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but
there have

always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding
them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a
problem.

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must

comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old
novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans.

Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules be
changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't
refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any
kind.

Quite true, Alun, but that isn't the real subject for morsemen.

The morsemen insist and insist and insist on keeping the
morse test because that is what They had to undergo. If
They had to do it, then all others must do it.

U.S. amateur radio was never chartered to be a living museum of
archaic radiotelegraphy skills. There is no need to maintain any
morse telegraphic skills through federal subsidy of any kind in
this new millennium.

But, to most morsemen, having developed the telegraphy skill,
they have a bragging right to show their "superiority" in radio.
Never mind that such "superiority" is one of myth and fantasy
and exists today solely in amateur radio. Morsemen have
bought into their Belief system that the federal government Must
support/defend/cherish morse skills because that is the way
They believe.

In a few it is the fear of loss of their "greatness" in radio
(of the amateur variety) as they age. They desperately want
to preserve their status and their Beliefs that they bought
into long ago. They dare not change anything in their
hobby...such change is perceived as a threat to their
survival...so they rationalize the radiotelegraphy "need"
and bitterly condemn all who seek change.

There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in,
but jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).

Alun, you didn't "start" that. You have to understand that
morsemen (and morsepersons) MUST retain all regulations as
they are now. To change them might result in loss of the
morse test andthat is something they cannot abide. Ergo,
the rationalization that LAWS MUST BE OBEYED and, by very
strong inference, those laws cannot ever be changed!

Of course laws must be obeyed. There would be no reason to
have them if they weren't. However, there is NO reason to
prohibit CHANGE of law by established, rightful democratic-
principle action. However, CHANGE is anathema to
morsepeople for, if some laws on amateur radio are changed,
then the morse code test necessity might be changed.
They can't have that.

So, there is this self-righteous insistence on "legality" of
obeyance and the rejection (an illegality itself) of the
ability to change law.
[by any means possible, apparently...:-) ]





What more can I say, Len? I agree with every word you said.

Alun L. Palmer wrote:

"Dee Flint" wrote in
:


"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
...

Mike Coslo wrote in
:

[big, big snip. Do you have to quote EVERYTHING??]



Well, it is a problem. No-coders may have been in the hobby, but they
couldn't do everything that they wanted to do. Not that I'm saying
that the Tech theory should get you full privileges, but there have
always been many Techs who could pass Extra class theory. Herding
them above 30 MHz is a problem, not for you perhaps, but still a
problem.

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must
comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old
novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans.


Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules be
changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't
refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any kind.

An argument can be made that no one should be tested at all.
Freebanders do it all the time. All rules are arbitrary.

But somewhere, somehow, a group of people decided that those were the
rules. Those rules came from rules that were in force previously. The
rules change constantly. That's a fact.

One of those changes 10 or so years ago was to give access to *most* of
our allotted frequencies to people without having them take a code test.
Also a fact.

This has had mixed results. Also a fact.

Possibilities:

Removal of the Morse code test has made the testing process easier.
This has allowed people who have only a passing interest in Ham radio to
get their license. Passing interests pass, and they allow their licenses
to lapse.

The Morse code tests are so hard that the No-code Technician either
becomes so discouraged that they quit, or their convictions are so
strong that they would rather not be a Ham than take the Element one test.

You can decide for yourself which sounds more likely.


There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE





No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in, but
jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).

I pounded and pounded and pounded that key until I broke the gate
down.......... (yoiks) 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Alun L. Palmer wrote:

[snip]
No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in, but
jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).

I pounded and pounded and pounded that key until I broke the gate
down.......... (yoiks) 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -


As did I. Now in retrospect, I can see that it was me that was making it
hard rather than it actually being hard.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Mike Coslo pounded his brass on Feb 20, 3:29 pm and posted this:

Alun L. Palmer wrote:
"Dee Flint" wrote in
:

"Alun L. Palmer" wrote in message
0...

No one can do everything they want to, not even the Extras. We must

comply with the mode regulations, special power limits in the old
novice subbands, and we should comply with the band plans.

Certainly, but that doesn't stop us from advocating that those rules
be
changed. A rule that those who can't read on/off keying by ear can't

refract their signals from the ionosphere is lacking in logic of any
kind.

An argument can be made that no one should be tested at all.
Freebanders do it all the time. All rules are arbitrary.

That's an absurd counter to what Alun said.

NO ONE was talking about "freebanders."

NO ONE was talking about "no test at all."

Alan spoke of the equally-absurd notion by some that
personal radiotelegraphy skill "enables" operation of
radios on HF. Absolutely NO qualification for such a
thought held by many control-freak morsemen in ham
radio. There's NO such "enablement" except in the
emotional fantasies of some.

The talk was of the MORSE CODE TEST, not the
written tests. Try for some semblance of focus.

But somewhere, somehow, a group of people decided that those
were the
rules. Those rules came from rules that were in force previously. The
rules change constantly. That's a fact.

Those "facts" have little to do with this so-called
technical necessity to personally know morse in
order to make an HF or MF transmitter work. Tens
of thousands of "radio operators" ranging from
military to civilians have successfully operated HF
radios without possessing any ability to do morse
code. For years. Worldwide.

One of those changes 10 or so years ago was to give access to
*most* of
our allotted frequencies to people without having them take a code
test.
Also a fact.

Not quite correct. The Report & Order establishing the
no-code-test Technician class U.S. amateur radio
license went into effect in 1991. That's over 13 years
ago. A fact.

Those Technicians were NOT allowed any privileges
below 30 MHz, also a fact.

The Technician class license was the fastest-growing
class in U.S. amateur radio (among all classes) from
1991 to the recent Restructuring. A fact. One that the
morsemen are loathe to discuss; if not "loathe," then
they are generally hostile to that concept. :-)

Removal of the Morse code test has made the testing process
easier.
This has allowed people who have only a passing interest in Ham radio
to
get their license. Passing interests pass, and they allow their
licenses
to lapse.

Oh! Tsk, TSK! What sort do these newcomers
encounter when entering amateur radio as newbies?
They meet some angry olde men of morsemanship
babbling absurdities of how "superior" they are
because they can do high-speed radiotelegraphy
and that (according to them) defines "real hams."

"No-coders" are shunned by those olde morseaholics,
regarded as second-class sub-humans who are said
to be "stupid" because they can't or don't develop the
psychomotor skills necessary to emulate a morse
modem. Those self-righteous macho-wannabe
morsemen simply don't understand that the hobby of
amateur radio was never defined solely for
radiotelegraphy.

Meeting the bitterness and social pariahdom imposed
by those self-righteous morsemen would make ordinary
hobbyists look elsewhere for fun. There are many, many
different kinds of hobby fun elsewhere.

The Morse code tests are so hard that the No-code Technician
either
becomes so discouraged that they quit, or their convictions are so
strong that they would rather not be a Ham than take the Element one
test.

Oh, my, the "conviction to the 'cause'" and
"dedication to the ham community" is an intrinsic
part of being a "real" ham?!? Tsk, another self-
righteous emotional personal concept which has
NO basis in reality.

Ah, yes, one can almost picture the NOS "recruiting"
posters and aphorisms springing up about "Learn
Radiotelegraphy to Join 'The Service'!!!" Outdated
garbage phrases left over from the 1930s... :-(

You can decide for yourself which sounds more likely.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. "Loading" a "reason?" That's absurd and
illogical.

The ONLY thing tangible about this stupid necessity to
pass a morse code test is the hate and bitterness of
the olde morsemen who bitch and whine about "no-
coders" who weren't "man enough" to Do As They Did.

Please explain the "rules" involved in "showing commitment"
to this "amateur community" and what special non-FCC
forms have to be submitted to "gain approval"? And just
who rules on this alleged commitment and dedication?

There is no "herding" involved. The "gate" wide open.

Mama Dee, you know very well the regulations were made
to favor the olde morsemen. Guess who lobbied for that?
:-)


No. The gate is shut and only those who can jump over it can get in,
but
jumping is purely optional once they get in. (More weird metaphors,
although I suppose I started this one).

I pounded and pounded and pounded that key until I broke the
gate
down.......... (yoiks) 8^)

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Coslo. You just do NOT understand what
that "gate" is. You capitulated to the olde-tymers, bought
into the system, became an "extra" so that you could lord
it over other, lesser-class amateurs (the seeming norm among
the extras, particularly the NCTA extras).

The olde-tyme morsemen in hamdom wanted their private
HF playground where they could pose and posture and
otherwise carry on like the "superior" radio operators they
thought they were. So, the original 5 WPM morse test rate
was upped and upped until, years later, the 20 WPM morse
test defined the "extra" class.

If you wish to redefine U.S. amateur radio as the Archaic
Radiotelegraphy Society (ARS), feel free. Champion morse
code all you want. Lobby to keep the morse test so that you
will have some new playmates (maybe) in your radio playground
for your later years. Feel "superior." In the new millennium
only amateur radio uses morse code for communications; all
the other radio services that once used morse have dropped it.
The maritime radio users have voice and data as their major
modes of open-ocean radio communications...the olde-tyme
"sparky" is almost extinct. Keep watching as attrition and
very few newcomers make ham radio (as you know it) become
equally extinct.