bb wrote:
Phil Kane wrote:
On 3 Apr 2005 17:02:14 -0700, bb wrote:

Phil, why do you have to pull a double-shift?

It's a two-day exercise, and I can make it both days.

I would guess that you have to pull two shifts because there are
not
enough amateur volunteers.

Actually, we have six operators qualified for that location, and
we
work in teams of three (county voice net, inter-hospital voice
net,
county-wide packet net) so we'll have plenty of operators.

Now c'mon Phil. I used to write duty schedules, so I know how many
times two teams of three fit into a calendar day. Is this a two-day
ORI?

Always at a deficit for information, aren't you, Brian?

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interap...orial_0588.xml

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for any one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise, depending on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Brian...You CAN pull more than two shifts under ONE of those
formats, couldn't you...??? I sure could, and will. CAP is a
participating agency in this.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
Phil Kane wrote:
On 3 Apr 2005 17:02:14 -0700, bb wrote:

Phil, why do you have to pull a double-shift?

It's a two-day exercise, and I can make it both days.

I would guess that you have to pull two shifts because there are
not
enough amateur volunteers.

Actually, we have six operators qualified for that location,
and
we
work in teams of three (county voice net, inter-hospital voice
net,
county-wide packet net) so we'll have plenty of operators.

Now c'mon Phil. I used to write duty schedules, so I know how many
times two teams of three fit into a calendar day. Is this a
two-day
ORI?

Always at a deficit for information, aren't you, Brian?


http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interap...orial_0588.xml

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for any one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise, depending
on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Levy your "attack" on Phil. Phil said it was two days, and that he
would be working both days.

Brian...You CAN pull more than two shifts under ONE of those
formats, couldn't you...??? I sure could, and will. CAP is a
participating agency in this.

Steve, K4YZ

Do provide RRAP an after action report of your heroic CAP activities.

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for any one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise, depending
on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Levy your "attack" on Phil. Phil said it was two days, and that he
would be working both days.

There was no attack. Either on you, nor especially on Phil.

YOU, however, were the one making the comments about how many
shifts he was pulling-vs-qualified operators to do it.

Brian...You CAN pull more than two shifts under ONE of those
formats, couldn't you...??? I sure could, and will. CAP is a
participating agency in this.

Steve, K4YZ

Do provide RRAP an after action report of your heroic CAP activities.

I don't engage in heroics, Brian. By the book...safe and
responsible. That's how I got through my tour in the USMC with my tail
intact, that's how I have spent 30+ years in CAP without injury, and
that's how I practice Nursing.

Now...about your assertion that ARES can't/won't respond to
emergencies...Are you going to provide some validation of that
statement?

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for any
one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise,
depending
on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Levy your "attack" on Phil. Phil said it was two days, and that he
would be working both days.

There was no attack. Either on you, nor especially on Phil.

Then why did you find it necessary to snip your crappy little comment?

"Always at a deficit for information, aren't you, Brian?"

If I cannot trust the information that the participant provides, then
what can I trust?

YOU, however, were the one making the comments about how many
shifts he was pulling-vs-qualified operators to do it.

That is no reflection on Phil. It is a reflection on the rest on the
amateur community, as I said.

Brian...You CAN pull more than two shifts under ONE of those
formats, couldn't you...??? I sure could, and will. CAP is a
participating agency in this.

Steve, K4YZ

Do provide RRAP an after action report of your heroic CAP
activities.

I don't engage in heroics, Brian. By the book...safe and
responsible. That's how I got through my tour in the USMC with my
tail
intact, that's how I have spent 30+ years in CAP without injury, and
that's how I practice Nursing.

Your behavio[u]r here indicates otherwise.

Now...about your assertion that ARES can't/won't respond to
emergencies...Are you going to provide some validation of that
statement?

Steve, K4YZ

ARES will respond to emergencies as they are able, just like cell
phones may or may not work in an emergency.

----------
OK, below is the information that Phil provided.
----------

It's a two-day exercise, and I can make it both days.

I would guess that you have to pull two shifts because there are
not
enough amateur volunteers.

Actually, we have six operators qualified for that location, and
we
work in teams of three (county voice net, inter-hospital voice
net,
county-wide packet net) so we'll have plenty of operators.

Now c'mon Phil. I used to write duty schedules, so I know how many
times two teams of three fit into a calendar day. Is this a two-day
ORI?
----------

You inform me that it is a four day exercise, or 96 hours. Assuming
12-hour shifts, that is 8 time slots.

Phil and 5 other volunteers are participating, and each "team" is
comprised of three volunteers. That makes two teams. Team A, and Team
B.

Let's put Phil on Team A, and Phil is pulling two shifts.

Day 1, Team A: Day
Team B: Night

Day 2, Team A: Day
Team B: Night

Day 3, Team A: Day (no Phil, team is short handed)
Team B: Night

Day 4, Team A: Day (no Phil, team is short handed)
Team B: Night

Remember, the conditions are that there are only six (6) qualified
operators, so there is a deficit of volunteers unless they are pulling
some 24 hour shifts. We don't know how few or many shifts the other
volunteers will pull.

Sorry, Steve, but thems the numbers. And I would guess that Phil's
group is quite active.

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for any
one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise,
depending
on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Levy your "attack" on Phil. Phil said it was two days, and that
he
would be working both days.

There was no attack. Either on you, nor especially on Phil.

Then why did you find it necessary to snip your crappy little
comment?

Because there was no "crappy little comment", Brian.

"Always at a deficit for information, aren't you, Brian?"

That's not "crappy", Brian...It's the truth. That YOU don't LIKE
it is one thing...

If I cannot trust the information that the participant provides, then
what can I trust?

Yeah...I guess when RRAP is the ONLY place you get your
"information" from, then you're pretty much at loggerheads as to what
you "know"...

YOU, however, were the one making the comments about how many
shifts he was pulling-vs-qualified operators to do it.

That is no reflection on Phil. It is a reflection on the rest on the
amateur community, as I said.

I didn't say it was a reflection on Phil, Brian.

It's about your own insinuations of why it was "necessary" for
Phil to pull more than one "shift" on this exercise.

Brian...You CAN pull more than two shifts under ONE of
those
formats, couldn't you...??? I sure could, and will. CAP is a
participating agency in this.

Steve, K4YZ

Do provide RRAP an after action report of your heroic CAP
activities.

I don't engage in heroics, Brian. By the book...safe and
responsible. That's how I got through my tour in the USMC with my
tail
intact, that's how I have spent 30+ years in CAP without injury,
and
that's how I practice Nursing.

Your behavio[u]r here indicates otherwise.

My behaviour here has nothing to do with what happens in the
cockpit of an aircraft, Brian.

Now...about your assertion that ARES can't/won't respond to
emergencies...Are you going to provide some validation of that
statement?

ARES will respond to emergencies as they are able, just like cell
phones may or may not work in an emergency.

Then you are acknowledging that your statement was false and
misrepresentitive of ARES' ability to respond...?!?!

----------
OK, below is the information that Phil provided.
----------

It's a two-day exercise, and I can make it both days.

I would guess that you have to pull two shifts because there are
not
enough amateur volunteers.

Actually, we have six operators qualified for that location,
and
we
work in teams of three (county voice net, inter-hospital voice
net,
county-wide packet net) so we'll have plenty of operators.

Now c'mon Phil. I used to write duty schedules, so I know how many
times two teams of three fit into a calendar day. Is this a
two-day
ORI?
----------

You inform me that it is a four day exercise, or 96 hours. Assuming
12-hour shifts, that is 8 time slots.

Phil and 5 other volunteers are participating, and each "team" is
comprised of three volunteers. That makes two teams. Team A, and
Team
B.

Let's put Phil on Team A, and Phil is pulling two shifts.

Day 1, Team A: Day
Team B: Night

Day 2, Team A: Day
Team B: Night

Day 3, Team A: Day (no Phil, team is short handed)
Team B: Night

Day 4, Team A: Day (no Phil, team is short handed)
Team B: Night

Remember, the conditions are that there are only six (6) qualified
operators, so there is a deficit of volunteers unless they are
pulling
some 24 hour shifts. We don't know how few or many shifts the other
volunteers will pull.

Sorry, Steve, but thems the numbers. And I would guess that Phil's
group is quite active.

And you have made the assumption that they are working 12 hour
shifts. Your re-arrangement still does not substantiate your other
claims.

And Phil states they "work in teams of three".

He does not state that all three are "on duty" at all times. I've
never been on ANY mission or exercise, USMC, CAP, Red Cross, ARES, etc,
where ALL operators were "on duty" at one time.

Sorry, Brian...Your contentions are still grasping for straws.

Nice try, though.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for
any
one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise,
depending
on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Levy your "attack" on Phil. Phil said it was two days, and
that
he
would be working both days.

There was no attack. Either on you, nor especially on Phil.

Then why did you find it necessary to snip your crappy little
comment?

Because there was no "crappy little comment", Brian.

It was.

"Always at a deficit for information, aren't you, Brian?"

That's not "crappy", Brian...It's the truth. That YOU don't
LIKE
it is one thing...

You don't like being called a liar. So stop lying.

If I cannot trust the information that the participant provides,
then
what can I trust?

Yeah...I guess when RRAP is the ONLY place you get your
"information" from, then you're pretty much at loggerheads as to what
you "know"...

I know you're a liar.

YOU, however, were the one making the comments about how
many
shifts he was pulling-vs-qualified operators to do it.

That is no reflection on Phil. It is a reflection on the rest on
the
amateur community, as I said.

I didn't say it was a reflection on Phil, Brian.

It's about your own insinuations of why it was "necessary" for
Phil to pull more than one "shift" on this exercise.

Looks like there are some empty spots in the schedule.

Brian...You CAN pull more than two shifts under ONE of
those
formats, couldn't you...??? I sure could, and will. CAP is
a
participating agency in this.

Steve, K4YZ

Do provide RRAP an after action report of your heroic CAP
activities.

I don't engage in heroics, Brian. By the book...safe and
responsible. That's how I got through my tour in the USMC with my
tail
intact, that's how I have spent 30+ years in CAP without injury,
and
that's how I practice Nursing.

Your behavio[u]r here indicates otherwise.

My behaviour here has nothing to do with what happens in the
cockpit of an aircraft, Brian.

Then you admit to having multiple personalities?

Now...about your assertion that ARES can't/won't respond to
emergencies...Are you going to provide some validation of that
statement?

ARES will respond to emergencies as they are able, just like cell
phones may or may not work in an emergency.

Then you are acknowledging that your statement was false and
misrepresentitive of ARES' ability to respond...?!?!

No, that isn't what I said. Are you merely a poor reader, or are you
now starting a new lie?

----------
OK, below is the information that Phil provided.
----------

It's a two-day exercise, and I can make it both days.

I would guess that you have to pull two shifts because there
are
not
enough amateur volunteers.

Actually, we have six operators qualified for that location,
and
we
work in teams of three (county voice net, inter-hospital
voice
net,
county-wide packet net) so we'll have plenty of operators.

Now c'mon Phil. I used to write duty schedules, so I know how
many
times two teams of three fit into a calendar day. Is this a
two-day
ORI?
----------

You inform me that it is a four day exercise, or 96 hours.
Assuming
12-hour shifts, that is 8 time slots.

Phil and 5 other volunteers are participating, and each "team" is
comprised of three volunteers. That makes two teams. Team A, and
Team
B.

Let's put Phil on Team A, and Phil is pulling two shifts.

Day 1, Team A: Day
Team B: Night

Day 2, Team A: Day
Team B: Night

Day 3, Team A: Day (no Phil, team is short handed)
Team B: Night

Day 4, Team A: Day (no Phil, team is short handed)
Team B: Night

Remember, the conditions are that there are only six (6) qualified
operators, so there is a deficit of volunteers unless they are
pulling
some 24 hour shifts. We don't know how few or many shifts the
other
volunteers will pull.

Sorry, Steve, but thems the numbers. And I would guess that Phil's
group is quite active.

And you have made the assumption that they are working 12 hour
shifts. Your re-arrangement still does not substantiate your other
claims.

Re-arrangement??? The 12 hour shift scenario is a Best Case Scenario.
If the shifts were 8 hours, the volunteer deficits would be even
greater.

And Phil states they "work in teams of three".

He does not state that all three are "on duty" at all times.
I've
never been on ANY mission or exercise, USMC, CAP, Red Cross, ARES,
etc,
where ALL operators were "on duty" at one time.

So you were in the "Day Weanie" Marine Corps? Weather and ATC are
24/7. So is Comms. But you, the mighty day weanie marine warrior know
otherwise. Hi, hi!

OK, 8 hour shifts:

Let's put Phil on Team A, and Phil is pulling two shifts.

Day 1, Team A: Day
Team B: Swing
Team C: Mid (deficit of 3)

Day 2, Team A: Day
Team B: Swing
Team nothing: Mid (deficit of 3)

Day 3, Team A: Day (no Phil, deficit of 1)
Team B: Swing
Team C: Mid (deficit of 3)

Day 4, Team A: Day (no Phil, deficit of 1)
Team B: Swing
Team C: Mid (deficit of 3)

Steve, have it your way. It makes the situation worse.

Sorry, Brian...Your contentions are still grasping for straws.

Nice try, though.

Idiot. Would you like me to show you what 6 or 4 hour shifts look
like???

Steve, K4YZ

bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
bb wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

TOPOFF-3 will be four days. More than ample time for
any
one
person to pull more than one "shift" during the exercise,
depending
on
how you're defining "shift".

12 hour shifts: Four (assuming 12 on / 12 off)

8 hour shifts: Six (assuming 8 on / 8 off)

4 hour shifts: Eight (assuming 4 on / 8 off)

Levy your "attack" on Phil. Phil said it was two days, and
that
he
would be working both days.

There was no attack. Either on you, nor especially on
Phil.

Then why did you find it necessary to snip your crappy little
comment?

Because there was no "crappy little comment", Brian.

It was.

No, there wasn't.

"Always at a deficit for information, aren't you, Brian?"

That's not "crappy", Brian...It's the truth. That YOU don't
LIKE
it is one thing...

You don't like being called a liar. So stop lying.

I'm not lying, Brian.

If I cannot trust the information that the participant provides,
then
what can I trust?

Yeah...I guess when RRAP is the ONLY place you get your
"information" from, then you're pretty much at loggerheads as to
what
you "know"...

I know you're a liar.

You SAY I'm a liar, but I've PROVED that you are.

YOU, however, were the one making the comments about how
many
shifts he was pulling-vs-qualified operators to do it.

That is no reflection on Phil. It is a reflection on the rest on
the
amateur community, as I said.

I didn't say it was a reflection on Phil, Brian.

It's about your own insinuations of why it was "necessary" for
Phil to pull more than one "shift" on this exercise.

Looks like there are some empty spots in the schedule.

Not from here. Especially if they have 6 people to cover a 48
hour period that they are participating...

And you STILL have not shown me ONE instance where ARES has failed
to respond to ANY incident when asked to do so.

My behaviour here has nothing to do with what happens in the
cockpit of an aircraft, Brian.

Then you admit to having multiple personalities?

Nice stretch, Brian.

Now...about your assertion that ARES can't/won't respond
to
emergencies...Are you going to provide some validation of that
statement?

ARES will respond to emergencies as they are able, just like cell
phones may or may not work in an emergency.

Then you are acknowledging that your statement was false and
misrepresentitive of ARES' ability to respond...?!?!

No, that isn't what I said. Are you merely a poor reader, or are you
now starting a new lie?

What lie? And yes it IS what YOU said, Brian. Word for word.
Not a period or comma was dropped.

And you have made the assumption that they are working 12 hour
shifts. Your re-arrangement still does not substantiate your other
claims.

Re-arrangement??? The 12 hour shift scenario is a Best Case
Scenario.
If the shifts were 8 hours, the volunteer deficits would be even
greater.

"Best case" for whom? Best case ONLY to support YOUR contention of
a volunteer deficit IF and ONLY IF you assume that each
volunteer only participates once in an exercise.

And Phil states they "work in teams of three".

He does not state that all three are "on duty" at all times.
I've
never been on ANY mission or exercise, USMC, CAP, Red Cross, ARES,
etc,
where ALL operators were "on duty" at one time.

So you were in the "Day Weanie" Marine Corps? Weather and ATC are
24/7. So is Comms. But you, the mighty day weanie marine warrior
know
otherwise. Hi, hi!

"Day Weanie"..?!?! You're stretching again, Brian.

OK, 8 hour shifts:

Let's put Phil on Team A, and Phil is pulling two shifts.

Day 1, Team A: Day
Team B: Swing
Team C: Mid (deficit of 3)

Day 2, Team A: Day
Team B: Swing
Team nothing: Mid (deficit of 3)

Day 3, Team A: Day (no Phil, deficit of 1)
Team B: Swing
Team C: Mid (deficit of 3)

Day 4, Team A: Day (no Phil, deficit of 1)
Team B: Swing
Team C: Mid (deficit of 3)

Steve, have it your way. It makes the situation worse.

No, it doesn't. You can still cover all operating periods with
staff. I doubt you were ever a supervisor in the USAF, Brain, from
your "all hands on duty now" contention.

Sorry, Brian...Your contentions are still grasping for straws.

Nice try, though.

Idiot. Would you like me to show you what 6 or 4 hour shifts look
like???

Brian, six people for a 48 hour period is thin, but adequate.
Sorry you don't agree, but then it appears you don't have the
supervisory skills to make it work.

Steve, K4YZ