KØHB wrote:

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


We each must choose our activities based on our personal priorities.


Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.


But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.


I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".


Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.


Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got room for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"


As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it takes time
to get good.


"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's Cradle"

Wow, talk about prejudicing the audience! This assumes that those of us
who support Morse testing simply do it because we had to. With my
problems with it, that would make me the meanest SOB in the valley.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of us believe that it is a good idea simply
because it is a good idea, a mode that cant be performed by picking up a
mic and talking, or typing on a keyboard, and needs to be learned?


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions
on the tests! I personally have no use for that! For a strict appliance
operator who is going to buy everything they use and have someone else
install it? No one should have to do anything they don't want to do!
Ditch all those unneeded questions.

Sunuvagun!

Huzzanga!

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!

Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult satellite
questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

......then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on the
Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse sound
"di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just like
all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult satellite
questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on the
Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse sound
"di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just like
all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the
curriculum!

Especially important is that those who do not know the material MUST
determine what the material is that they must learn. That is always the
smartest way to do things. The students must educate the teachers.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult
satellite questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim
example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations
transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on
the Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse
sound "di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just
like all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the curriculum!

Not at all Mike. You've persuaded me that there ought to be test questions for
Morse just like there are test questions for each other mode. We seem to be in
complete agreement on the matter.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the
tests! I personally have no use for that!


Good point, and I agree. If we are going to have incredibly difficult
satellite questions on the Extra written exam, like the following verbatim
example.....

Q: Which of the following types of communications may space stations
transmit?

A. Automatic retransmission of signals from Earth stations and other space
stations
B. One-way communications
C. Telemetry consisting of specially coded messages
D. All of these choices are correct

.....then there ought to be similarly incredibly difficult CW questions on
the Extra written exam, like:

Q: Which of the following alphanumeric characters corresponds to the Morse
sound "di-dah"

A. A
B. B
C. C
D. All of these choices are correct

After all, fair is fair, and the CW mode ought to have test questions just
like all other modes. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll bet you like those schools where the students determine the curriculum!


Not at all Mike. You've persuaded me that there ought to be test questions for
Morse just like there are test questions for each other mode. We seem to be in
complete agreement on the matter.

Ahh, appearing to agree with me to discount my point!

I could ace the entire test if asked is dih-dah meant "A". But that
isn't the point.

You did of course leave out my point that you can argue yourself out of
any testing via your argument......

such as....

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode questions on the tests!
I personally have no use for that! For a strict appliance operator who is going
to buy everything they use and have someone else install it? No one should have
to do anything they don't want to do! Ditch all those unneeded questions.

0 question test.


- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


..... my point that you can argue yourself out of any testing via your
argument......


No you can't.

I fully support a Morse familiarity test. Cross my heart and hope to die!

I just don't support a "skill demonstration", unless you want to require a
"skill demonstration" of every knowledge area on the test, and deny licenses to
everyone who cannot demonstrate all required skills.

73, de Hans, K0HB

KØHB wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


..... my point that you can argue yourself out of any testing via your
argument......



No you can't.

Yes you can.

I fully support a Morse familiarity test. Cross my heart and hope to die!

I just don't support a "skill demonstration", unless you want to require a
"skill demonstration" of every knowledge area on the test, and deny licenses to
everyone who cannot demonstrate all required skills.


No other part of the testing is a skill. You can buy a Yeacomwood rig,
have other people set up your antenna and setup. You can talk into a
microphone, (assuming that people know to mash the PTT or adaptive
device that performs the same function) and it will "work". I can buy or
download and install the software that I use for PSK31. It's a major
stretch to consider that a skill. More like knowledge.

But CW is a different matter. You aren't going to read a book and sit
down at the key and start sending or receiving Morse. *Thst's* a skill.

Even with computer generated Morse and Receiving programs such as CWGet
(all which do s so-so job of the mode) it is a valuable skill which can
work with minimal equipment.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
K=D8HB wrote:

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...


We each must choose our activities based on our personal
priorities.


Thank you very much, Captain Obvious.


But do not whine and cry to change the requirements simply because
it's not
high enough on your priority list
to put some time into it.


I wouldn't characterize it as "whine and cry" (unless I wanted to
prejudice the
audience). Seems more like "this is my opinion on the matter".


Besides if you haven't time to study code 15 minutes
per day, you don't have time to study the theory either.


Is that kinda like when you told your child "if you haven't got
room for more
green beans, then you don't have room for dessert either"


As you said, a person must get started to learn anything.
The first ones are difficult for all of us. Like anything else it
takes time
to get good.


"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something,
learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is
full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant
without having come by their ignorance the hard way."
---Bokonon in "Cat's
Cradle"

Wow, talk about prejudicing the audience! This assumes that those of
us
who support Morse testing simply do it because we had to.

That is one conclusion.

With my
problems with it, that would make me the meanest SOB in the valley.

The actuarial tables got you a promotion.

Perhaps, just perhaps, some of us believe that it is a good idea
simply
because it is a good idea, a mode that cant be performed by picking
up a
mic and talking, or typing on a keyboard, and needs to be learned?

It the explaining of why it is a good idea where you run into trouble.

"Actually, what is being discussed is freedom of choice of modes
in a hobby in a free society. There is absolutely nothing
prohibiting
someone who wants to take full advantage of CW's many
advantages from becoming skillful in the mode."
--- CAM in RRAP

Extended to all modes? Get rid of those darn satellite mode
questions
on the tests! I personally have no use for that! For a strict
appliance
operator who is going to buy everything they use and have someone
else
install it? No one should have to do anything they don't want to do!
Ditch all those unneeded questions.

The Miccolis argument goes farther. He's advocated dropping all
requirements testing. Why don't you go over the deep end, too?

Sunuvagun!

Huzzanga!

- Mike KB3EIA -

You can add all the CW quesstions, within reason, that you want. Let
CW stand with the other modes in the written test. And drop the code
test.