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Mike:
That would really be funny--if it wasn't so pathetic... How about a few calculus questions on the test, how about having to write short story with grammar, spelling and punctuation correct. How about having to give a description of the physics of the electron-hole theory, argument at to why the theory should be considered valid, and an opposing argument on why it should be considered flawed. How about demonstrating how the quadratic formula relates to thermal physics, electrical physics--some examples of its' uses in both... Gesus, the ham exams are for dummies... get real... When the hams talk about how difficult the test EVER was it is a joke, the damn test can be passed by any second year college student after a day of study... you guys end up describing the size of your own mind when you do this--and still after all these years you have not figured it out--people laugh--haven't you seen them laughing before, surely you caught one or two out of the corner of your eye? Wake up... the only reason people don't rub your nose in your own dog poop is they are not like you--they have been raised differently--they try to be nice no matter what... but there is an end to tolerance of bad behavior... John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - |
wrote:
wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: 3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some circles. In a *lot* of circles and they're basically right. This phenomenon is a result of evolutionary forces at work within the hobby. There are two choices he Go with the obvious flow and accept where Mother Nature is leading us and take advantage of it -OR- fight Mother which is always a losing battle and try to keep applying the mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears when we came into the hobby50, 30 even 20 years ago. Actually I we should go back to those "mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears" Liked that one dinya? Heh. "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. - in a way. Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". Kids in that timeframe lived in the remnants of the old "children should be seen and not heard" mindset. Unless some publication was somehow directly related to school classwork it was written for adults. Particulary if there was any technical content and the ARRL followed suite. Bingo - why can't that be the way things are again? The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. Of course not, no more so than the state made it easier for kids to get drivers licenses. For the same underlying regulatory reasons. Yet there were plenty of "young'uns". Which proves my point, thanks. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Nah, never entered our minds. Not consciously. Ham radio was an adult hobby and we accepted it. Period. 'zactly. If ya wanted to be part of it you met the standards for it. Watta concept, huh? Somebody tell NCVEC. We were used to having to read at the adult level when it came to technical publications, there were no options, we didn't know the difference. There were beginners publications in some hobby fields but I don't remember any in ham radio "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" and they were all written for adults. BINGO! In another direction kid hams were a tiny and poverty-struck book and magazine market, there's no money in a market like that so nobody wrote for specifically for us. In yet another direction all the kid hams I knew had adult-level reading skills by the time they were twelve or so and wouldn't have bothered with being spoon-fed kiddie sorts of writings even if they were available. All those basic factors are the same today. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
.... yeah, in other words, let's just kick back, have a drink and see if
this all pans out--hell, these oldsters just may pull off what they have planned and live forever--then again, we should be prepared if not... Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: wrote: 3) The ARS has the image of an "old white guy's hobby" in some circles. In a *lot* of circles and they're basically right. This phenomenon is a result of evolutionary forces at work within the hobby. There are two choices he Go with the obvious flow and accept where Mother Nature is leading us and take advantage of it -OR- fight Mother which is always a losing battle and try to keep applying the mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears when we came into the hobby50, 30 even 20 years ago. Actually I we should go back to those "mores, values and expectations of the yesteryears" Liked that one dinya? Heh. "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. - in a way. Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". Kids in that timeframe lived in the remnants of the old "children should be seen and not heard" mindset. Unless some publication was somehow directly related to school classwork it was written for adults. Particulary if there was any technical content and the ARRL followed suite. Bingo - why can't that be the way things are again? The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. Of course not, no more so than the state made it easier for kids to get drivers licenses. For the same underlying regulatory reasons. Yet there were plenty of "young'uns". Which proves my point, thanks. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Nah, never entered our minds. Not consciously. Ham radio was an adult hobby and we accepted it. Period. 'zactly. If ya wanted to be part of it you met the standards for it. Watta concept, huh? Somebody tell NCVEC. We were used to having to read at the adult level when it came to technical publications, there were no options, we didn't know the difference. There were beginners publications in some hobby fields but I don't remember any in ham radio "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" and they were all written for adults. BINGO! In another direction kid hams were a tiny and poverty-struck book and magazine market, there's no money in a market like that so nobody wrote for specifically for us. In yet another direction all the kid hams I knew had adult-level reading skills by the time they were twelve or so and wouldn't have bothered with being spoon-fed kiddie sorts of writings even if they were available. All those basic factors are the same today. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - Now if they were to make a game that you weren't allowed to play until you could beat it, your analogy would be closer to amateur reality. bb |
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Of course not. Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? If anything, that will cause the game to be unpopular because it presents no challenge and requires no skill. Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? Probably not. BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. Some points: 1) Amateur radio is not a video game. It's much more complex than that. 2) Anybody can buy a video game - all you need is cash. And if you're satisfied to play older games, they can often be had for very little money, or even free. The need for skill comes only when you go to play the game. 3) The tests for an amateur radio license in the USA have varied in the degree and types of knowledge required. (Skills are a type of knowledge). But they have never required a very high level of knowledge to pass. And the licenses have been earned by people of all ages and all walks of life. 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
The only way I could think you could reduce the number of games
sold/played on computers is to make the kids get a license before they can have a computer. Now the test could be pretty damn complicate, but if you require them to pass a 50 wpm typing test the numbers will drop... now consider that they will view having to learn code for a license as totally preposterous and you are close to getting a clue... It is the code, not the exam... John wrote in message oups.com... Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Of course not. Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? If anything, that will cause the game to be unpopular because it presents no challenge and requires no skill. Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? Probably not. BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. Some points: 1) Amateur radio is not a video game. It's much more complex than that. 2) Anybody can buy a video game - all you need is cash. And if you're satisfied to play older games, they can often be had for very little money, or even free. The need for skill comes only when you go to play the game. 3) The tests for an amateur radio license in the USA have varied in the degree and types of knowledge required. (Skills are a type of knowledge). But they have never required a very high level of knowledge to pass. And the licenses have been earned by people of all ages and all walks of life. 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
John Smith wrote:
Mike: That would really be funny--if it wasn't so pathetic... How about a few calculus questions on the test, how about having to write short story with grammar, spelling and punctuation correct. How about having to give a description of the physics of the electron-hole theory, argument at to why the theory should be considered valid, and an opposing argument on why it should be considered flawed. How about demonstrating how the quadratic formula relates to thermal physics, electrical physics--some examples of its' uses in both... Gesus, the ham exams are for dummies... get real... When the hams talk about how difficult the test EVER was it is a joke, the damn test can be passed by any second year college student after a day of study... you guys end up describing the size of your own mind when you do this--and still after all these years you have not figured it out--people laugh--haven't you seen them laughing before, surely you caught one or two out of the corner of your eye? Wake up... the only reason people don't rub your nose in your own dog poop is they are not like you--they have been raised differently--they try to be nice no matter what... but there is an end to tolerance of bad behavior... Go back, re-read my post, and then tell me just what I wrote. Then let me know if I wrote anything along the lines of what you just tried to slippery-slope my post into. Some things to point out are the parts where I am suggesting making the tests quite difficult. My tolerance has not been exceeded. You may wish to continue the canine excrement comments at will. - Mike KB3EIA - John "Mike Coslo" wrote in message ... wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - |
bb wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - Now if they were to make a game that you weren't allowed to play until you could beat it, your analogy would be closer to amateur reality. Beating the game would be a little like passing the test. I thought I was arguing for a middle of the road difficulty test. "John Smith" seems to think otherwise. - Mike KB3EIA - |
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wrote 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. Does Amateur Radio need to grow? If so, why? Good luck on this one now, de Hans, K0HB |
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"John Smith" ) writes: The only way I could think you could reduce the number of games sold/played on computers is to make the kids get a license before they can have a computer. Now the test could be pretty damn complicate, but if you require them to pass a 50 wpm typing test the numbers will drop... now consider that they will view having to learn code for a license as totally preposterous and you are close to getting a clue... It is the code, not the exam... John THe code is the game, as is the written test. Pass the code test, and you move up a level. Same with the written test. It ultimately is not all that different. I tend to not play computer games, but every so often I give one that came with the installation a try. For the first bit, I am horrible, and I can't understand how anyone could get very high scores. But as I play with the game, I learn the tricks that work, and suddenly I am doing well, until I hit some higher plateau. SOmeone looks at theory, and it looks like a really high cliff. If they turn back then, they don't get very far. But if they keep at it, it turns out that the first steps aren't really that bad. Code's the same. Some of us have pointed out the feeling of accomplishment when we were young, to have passed the code test. It wasn't something in our way, it was something to get good at. The first time I picked up an electronic hobby magazine, back in 1971, none of it made sense. If there hadn't been non-technical material, such as Wayne Green's column in Electronics Illustrated, there wouldn't ahve been much value in each issue at the beginning. But I kept at it, and I learned. I thought I had four years to go before I could get a license, because back then you had to be at lest fifteen here in Canada to take the test. The rule was changed the next spring, and that year or so of reading everything I could get my hands on (three months after that first hobby magazine, I had a membership in the ARRL so I could get QST) was highly valuable, because I didn't have to cram to pass the test, I had a certain level of background to get ready for the test. I ended up joining the local club's code and theory class. It had started in the fall, but it was February when I learned I would be able to get a license that year. Kid sitting across from me, somewhat older, told me I'd not be successful, coming in so late. But then, what I really needed was the code, and the "network" the ham club supplied. I passed all but the code receiving test in May, the first month I could take the test, and passed the code receiving test in June. I didn't get the results till grade six was over, so I couldn't boast to my classmates. Michael VE2BVW |
Michael:
Frankly, a Jr. College degree (A.A./A.S.) is multitudes more difficult than passing a ham exam... frankly, the exam is moot when in comparison, even to the ability to be proficient in beating a moderately video game... however, here in La La Land who knows... Warmest regards, John "Michael Black" wrote in message ... "John Smith" ) writes: The only way I could think you could reduce the number of games sold/played on computers is to make the kids get a license before they can have a computer. Now the test could be pretty damn complicate, but if you require them to pass a 50 wpm typing test the numbers will drop... now consider that they will view having to learn code for a license as totally preposterous and you are close to getting a clue... It is the code, not the exam... John THe code is the game, as is the written test. Pass the code test, and you move up a level. Same with the written test. It ultimately is not all that different. I tend to not play computer games, but every so often I give one that came with the installation a try. For the first bit, I am horrible, and I can't understand how anyone could get very high scores. But as I play with the game, I learn the tricks that work, and suddenly I am doing well, until I hit some higher plateau. SOmeone looks at theory, and it looks like a really high cliff. If they turn back then, they don't get very far. But if they keep at it, it turns out that the first steps aren't really that bad. Code's the same. Some of us have pointed out the feeling of accomplishment when we were young, to have passed the code test. It wasn't something in our way, it was something to get good at. The first time I picked up an electronic hobby magazine, back in 1971, none of it made sense. If there hadn't been non-technical material, such as Wayne Green's column in Electronics Illustrated, there wouldn't ahve been much value in each issue at the beginning. But I kept at it, and I learned. I thought I had four years to go before I could get a license, because back then you had to be at lest fifteen here in Canada to take the test. The rule was changed the next spring, and that year or so of reading everything I could get my hands on (three months after that first hobby magazine, I had a membership in the ARRL so I could get QST) was highly valuable, because I didn't have to cram to pass the test, I had a certain level of background to get ready for the test. I ended up joining the local club's code and theory class. It had started in the fall, but it was February when I learned I would be able to get a license that year. Kid sitting across from me, somewhat older, told me I'd not be successful, coming in so late. But then, what I really needed was the code, and the "network" the ham club supplied. I passed all but the code receiving test in May, the first month I could take the test, and passed the code receiving test in June. I didn't get the results till grade six was over, so I couldn't boast to my classmates. Michael VE2BVW |
.... moderately difficult video game... even...
John "John Smith" wrote in message ... Michael: Frankly, a Jr. College degree (A.A./A.S.) is multitudes more difficult than passing a ham exam... frankly, the exam is moot when in comparison, even to the ability to be proficient in beating a moderately video game... however, here in La La Land who knows... Warmest regards, John "Michael Black" wrote in message ... "John Smith" ) writes: The only way I could think you could reduce the number of games sold/played on computers is to make the kids get a license before they can have a computer. Now the test could be pretty damn complicate, but if you require them to pass a 50 wpm typing test the numbers will drop... now consider that they will view having to learn code for a license as totally preposterous and you are close to getting a clue... It is the code, not the exam... John THe code is the game, as is the written test. Pass the code test, and you move up a level. Same with the written test. It ultimately is not all that different. I tend to not play computer games, but every so often I give one that came with the installation a try. For the first bit, I am horrible, and I can't understand how anyone could get very high scores. But as I play with the game, I learn the tricks that work, and suddenly I am doing well, until I hit some higher plateau. SOmeone looks at theory, and it looks like a really high cliff. If they turn back then, they don't get very far. But if they keep at it, it turns out that the first steps aren't really that bad. Code's the same. Some of us have pointed out the feeling of accomplishment when we were young, to have passed the code test. It wasn't something in our way, it was something to get good at. The first time I picked up an electronic hobby magazine, back in 1971, none of it made sense. If there hadn't been non-technical material, such as Wayne Green's column in Electronics Illustrated, there wouldn't ahve been much value in each issue at the beginning. But I kept at it, and I learned. I thought I had four years to go before I could get a license, because back then you had to be at lest fifteen here in Canada to take the test. The rule was changed the next spring, and that year or so of reading everything I could get my hands on (three months after that first hobby magazine, I had a membership in the ARRL so I could get QST) was highly valuable, because I didn't have to cram to pass the test, I had a certain level of background to get ready for the test. I ended up joining the local club's code and theory class. It had started in the fall, but it was February when I learned I would be able to get a license that year. Kid sitting across from me, somewhat older, told me I'd not be successful, coming in so late. But then, what I really needed was the code, and the "network" the ham club supplied. I passed all but the code receiving test in May, the first month I could take the test, and passed the code receiving test in June. I didn't get the results till grade six was over, so I couldn't boast to my classmates. Michael VE2BVW |
K=D8HB wrote: wrote 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. Does Amateur Radio need to grow? Answer =3D NO If so, why? Good luck on this one now, .. . . passed that one. Next?=20 de Hans, K0HB w3rv |
K=D8HB wrote:
wrote 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. Does Amateur Radio need to grow? Not at the price of continuously lowering standards - which doesn't work anyway. If so, why? All else being equal, the ARS would be well served to have more hams. For a whole bunch of reasons ranging from more buyers and sellers at hamfests to more points to make in contests to more folks to ragchew with. But all else is never equal. Simply lowering the license test requirements hasn't helped raise the numbers. While there's a lot of debate on the code test issue, even though all that's left is the basic, entry level 5 wpm test, little attention is paid to the fact that the *written* testing was drastically reduced in 2000 for all license classes. Previously it took 5 written tests totalling 190 questions to get an Extra, now it takes 3 written tests totalling 120 questions. The biggest reduction took place for the Technician - the written testing for that license was cut to about half its former level.=20 73 de Jim, N2EY |
Mike Coslo wrote: bb wrote: Mike Coslo wrote: wrote: Look at the old ham mags and other publications (ARRL and non-ARRL, doesn't matter as long as it was a ham- oriented publication) of the so-called golden years of, say, the '50s. Back when we had annual growth of about 8% year after year. They *weren't* specifically aimed at "young'uns". The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Let us assume that a company makes a video game. It's pretty popular and sells a lot. They would like to sell more. Should they make their next game really easy? Will millions more teenagers buy the game because they can beat the game the first time they play it? Do they want to make it so hard that it is impossible to beat? BTW, the answer is no on both counts. People who would play video games do not buy games that are too easy to beat. Nor too hard. Comparisons to the ease or difficulty of the ARS licensing process are invited. - Mike KB3EIA - Now if they were to make a game that you weren't allowed to play until you could beat it, your analogy would be closer to amateur reality. Beating the game would be a little like passing the test. But how many people can beat a game they've never played? I thought I was arguing for a middle of the road difficulty test. "John Smith" seems to think otherwise. - Mike KB3EIA - So far I've only read what you and "Quitefine" have posted. |
wrote:
wrote: "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. Kids in that timeframe lived in the remnants of the old "children should be seen and not heard" mindset. Unless some publication was somehow directly related to school classwork it was written for adults. Particulary if there was any technical content and the ARRL followed suite. Bingo - why can't that be the way things are again? What has changed - besides the general volume of test questions? The license requirements *weren't* reduced (as NCVEC and others want to do) to make the tests easier for kids to pass. Of course not, no more so than the state made it easier for kids to get drivers licenses. For the same underlying regulatory reasons. Yet there were plenty of "young'uns". Which proves my point, thanks. Without meaning to be obtuse James, what IS your point anyway?? The "Beginner And Novice" columns weren't aimed at teenagers or any other age group. And that may be a big part of what made them so attractive to kids! Nah, never entered our minds. Not consciously. You know what '50s kids thought consciously and unconsiously. Damn you're good . . . Ham radio was an adult hobby and we accepted it. Period. 'zactly. If ya wanted to be part of it you met the standards for it. Watta concept, huh? Somebody tell NCVEC. There are a few topics and individuals I generally avoid getting involved with in this NG. One of those is the unending stream of circular threads about how tough or untough the writtens are or should be or should not be simply because I happen to have very little interest in the subject. The NCVEC can make all the noises and proposals it wants but when it's all said and done the FCC still calls the shots. If the writtens satisfy the FCC the writtens are OK with me. My ho-hum attitude toward the writtens is based on my belief that the writtens have never had any particular effect on whether or not any individual becomes a ham or not kids included. I've never run into an example of somebody not becoming a ham because they couldn't get past the writtens - have you?? Have you ever run into a newbie licensed in recent times you consider unqualified to operate because he/she hadn't been adequately tested? I 'spose the writtens were a bit more difficult in days of yore because we had to have a better grip on some technical topics than newbies need today to remain in compliance with the regs. A typical example being the questions we had on calculating the thermal drift of the xtals we used for frequency control back then. When was the last time any OF in this NG plugged in his/her favorite FT-243 mounted treasure to get on a freq?? SPARE me!! Hell, ya *can't* operate out-of-band today, the friggin' radios won't let it happen by FCC mandate. So there went one set of calcs we had to know. And on and on and on. We were used to having to read at the adult level when it came to technical publications, there were no options, we didn't know the difference. There were beginners publications in some hobby fields but I don't remember any in ham radio "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" OK, now I remember the book on learning the code, I had a copy. Don't remember any of the rest. The learning the code book taught me nothing, all it was good for was the listing of the W1AW code practice schedules. All the rest of it was on me, copy, copy, copy until I got it. The only youth-oriented beginners publication on ham radio which led me to actually learning anything was the Boy Scout Radio Merit Badge booklet. Add it to your list. and they were all written for adults. BINGO! .. . . bingo what . . . ? 73 de Jim, N2EY w3rv |
From: "K=D8=88B" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 03:14
wrote 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. Does Amateur Radio need to grow? If so, why? 1. In order to be at the same percentage as OTHER radio users; the FCC regulates ALL civil radio in the USA and the population of the USA is (keeping on) increasing. To be competitive just to retain desired bands against all other services requires a justification in citizen participants in amateur radio...which means it must at least keep up with the increasing population. 2. To retain a sizeable market for both equipment, components, and publications aimed at radio amateurs. There are many, many, many markets for electronics items today, much more so than a half century ago. Manufacturers of equipment, components, and publications desire a large enough market to enable profit; shrinking market numbers are coincident with reduced profit and that be a no-no. 3. Actuarial tables will show that normal life span is going to have a greater effect on an activity where the participants are above the median population age...which increases the probability of earlier attrition of numbers. [regardless of egregious boasting or frequent, vociferous denial, radio amateurs will NOT live forever] Note: amateur radio demographics indicate the participants are older than the national population median age. 4. Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY. There are many more types and kinds of activity available to the population today versus a half century ago and that is competition for available free time for hobbyists. Greater numbers of amateur radio participants will increase exposure and possible interest to the general public, demonstrate to government agencies for favorable decisions in favor of amateur radio participants. Note: The ARRL membership as of the end of 2004 was only 140 thousand while the Academy of Model Aeronautics, the USA national membership organization of model airplane flyers was 175 thousand at that same time. [source: website statements of both organizations] 5. The no-code-test Technician Class license has only been available for 14 years and (as of Sunday, 5 Jun 05) already has 293,613 licensees out of a total of 722,452 individual licenses in the USA. Had that not been available, the total number of amateur licenses would have SHRUNK by a sizeable number. The exact amount of shrinkage is unknown since it is impossible to accurately predict an alternate future. That shrinkage could, at worst case, reduced the Sunday totals to 428,839 total individual licenses, a drop to 59.36 percent. Currently (as of Sunday, 5 Jun 05) the no-code-test Technician class license represents 40.64 percent of the total individual license grants. 6. The availability of communications resources to the general public has greatly expanded in the last half century. As of the end of 2003 there were 100 MILLION cellular telephone subscriptions in the USA. [USA Census Bureau statement in early 2004] One in five families in the USA has SOME access to the Internet. [Census Bureau, same statement as for cellular telephony] Self-service facsimile machines are common in chain drugstores and office supply stores. Every government agency and nearly all military units of battalion size or equivalent have websites in the USA. Direct-dial-telephone service is available to all telephone subscribers in the USA from small towns to large urban areas; that includes direct dialing to foreign telephone subscribers. The number of "eleven meter" CB transceivers in use in the USA is roughly 5 MILLION (electronic industry estimates several years ago); "CB" has existed for 47 years. FRS and GMRS handheld, average 5-mile range, are available in consumer electronics stores/departments for less than $100 a pair (no license required for FRS radios). Throughout the USA public safety agencies have some form of non-amateur radio communications, as do utility, transportation, highway maintenance industries; the business and government radio market has long been established in the USA and major countries in the world. As an adjunct to several items in competition for advertising income necessary to sustain some publications, it should be pointed out that the number of printed periodicals in the USA has tripled (almost quadrupled) in the last half century. Add to that the competiiton from the Internet ad markets since the public release of the Internet in 1991 and the advertising space purchasers are spread over a large number of venues. In USA amateur radio periodicals, Ham Radio, Ham Radio Horizons, 73, and CQ VHF have all been forced to close due to insufficient income from ad sales. [QEX and Communications Quarterly, a attempt at some resumption of Ham Radio magazine content, were joined, but with marginal success on ad space sales] Note: HR, 73, CQ are all "independent" periodical publishers whose operating income is dependent entirely on advertising space sales. Some non-amateur-specific periodicals such as Popular Communications have enjoyed an increase in readership and drawing more ad space purchasers. Marketing follows trends and interests generated through advertising and adjusts product prices accordingly. Advertising, though irritating to some, is a good barometer of the "product weather." To sustain at least the status quo, U.S. amateur radio license numbers must follow the population increase. To be competitive for both attention and product pricing, as well as for favorable regulations and new products, the license numbers must grow. Individual radio amateurs have expressed an opinion that growth should NOT happen. Those may be looking at their own activities without regard for the overall national picture or advances in overall communications capabilities. To them everything is "comfortable" as it is. Those same "comfortable as it is" amateurs will begin to attrit in a decade or two and their numbers will drop. That will shrink the number of licensees despite the recent increases due almost entirely to the no-code- test licensees of the last 14 years. Shrinkage in numbers due to old-timers leaving must be offset by more than just that "new" no-code-test license class. |
Len:
Although we have had our disagreements, here I give you credit--your ducks are beginning to look pretty organized--if not "absolutely" in a row... your post is a credit to the defense of amateur radio... Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... From: "K?B" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 03:14 wrote 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. Does Amateur Radio need to grow? If so, why? 1. In order to be at the same percentage as OTHER radio users; the FCC regulates ALL civil radio in the USA and the population of the USA is (keeping on) increasing. To be competitive just to retain desired bands against all other services requires a justification in citizen participants in amateur radio...which means it must at least keep up with the increasing population. 2. To retain a sizeable market for both equipment, components, and publications aimed at radio amateurs. There are many, many, many markets for electronics items today, much more so than a half century ago. Manufacturers of equipment, components, and publications desire a large enough market to enable profit; shrinking market numbers are coincident with reduced profit and that be a no-no. 3. Actuarial tables will show that normal life span is going to have a greater effect on an activity where the participants are above the median population age...which increases the probability of earlier attrition of numbers. [regardless of egregious boasting or frequent, vociferous denial, radio amateurs will NOT live forever] Note: amateur radio demographics indicate the participants are older than the national population median age. 4. Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY. There are many more types and kinds of activity available to the population today versus a half century ago and that is competition for available free time for hobbyists. Greater numbers of amateur radio participants will increase exposure and possible interest to the general public, demonstrate to government agencies for favorable decisions in favor of amateur radio participants. Note: The ARRL membership as of the end of 2004 was only 140 thousand while the Academy of Model Aeronautics, the USA national membership organization of model airplane flyers was 175 thousand at that same time. [source: website statements of both organizations] 5. The no-code-test Technician Class license has only been available for 14 years and (as of Sunday, 5 Jun 05) already has 293,613 licensees out of a total of 722,452 individual licenses in the USA. Had that not been available, the total number of amateur licenses would have SHRUNK by a sizeable number. The exact amount of shrinkage is unknown since it is impossible to accurately predict an alternate future. That shrinkage could, at worst case, reduced the Sunday totals to 428,839 total individual licenses, a drop to 59.36 percent. Currently (as of Sunday, 5 Jun 05) the no-code-test Technician class license represents 40.64 percent of the total individual license grants. 6. The availability of communications resources to the general public has greatly expanded in the last half century. As of the end of 2003 there were 100 MILLION cellular telephone subscriptions in the USA. [USA Census Bureau statement in early 2004] One in five families in the USA has SOME access to the Internet. [Census Bureau, same statement as for cellular telephony] Self-service facsimile machines are common in chain drugstores and office supply stores. Every government agency and nearly all military units of battalion size or equivalent have websites in the USA. Direct-dial-telephone service is available to all telephone subscribers in the USA from small towns to large urban areas; that includes direct dialing to foreign telephone subscribers. The number of "eleven meter" CB transceivers in use in the USA is roughly 5 MILLION (electronic industry estimates several years ago); "CB" has existed for 47 years. FRS and GMRS handheld, average 5-mile range, are available in consumer electronics stores/departments for less than $100 a pair (no license required for FRS radios). Throughout the USA public safety agencies have some form of non-amateur radio communications, as do utility, transportation, highway maintenance industries; the business and government radio market has long been established in the USA and major countries in the world. As an adjunct to several items in competition for advertising income necessary to sustain some publications, it should be pointed out that the number of printed periodicals in the USA has tripled (almost quadrupled) in the last half century. Add to that the competiiton from the Internet ad markets since the public release of the Internet in 1991 and the advertising space purchasers are spread over a large number of venues. In USA amateur radio periodicals, Ham Radio, Ham Radio Horizons, 73, and CQ VHF have all been forced to close due to insufficient income from ad sales. [QEX and Communications Quarterly, a attempt at some resumption of Ham Radio magazine content, were joined, but with marginal success on ad space sales] Note: HR, 73, CQ are all "independent" periodical publishers whose operating income is dependent entirely on advertising space sales. Some non-amateur-specific periodicals such as Popular Communications have enjoyed an increase in readership and drawing more ad space purchasers. Marketing follows trends and interests generated through advertising and adjusts product prices accordingly. Advertising, though irritating to some, is a good barometer of the "product weather." To sustain at least the status quo, U.S. amateur radio license numbers must follow the population increase. To be competitive for both attention and product pricing, as well as for favorable regulations and new products, the license numbers must grow. Individual radio amateurs have expressed an opinion that growth should NOT happen. Those may be looking at their own activities without regard for the overall national picture or advances in overall communications capabilities. To them everything is "comfortable" as it is. Those same "comfortable as it is" amateurs will begin to attrit in a decade or two and their numbers will drop. That will shrink the number of licensees despite the recent increases due almost entirely to the no-code- test licensees of the last 14 years. Shrinkage in numbers due to old-timers leaving must be offset by more than just that "new" no-code-test license class. |
wrote:
From: "K0HB" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 03:14 wrote 4) Reducing the license test requirements has not brought sustained growth to US amateur radio. Does Amateur Radio need to grow? If so, why? 1. In order to be at the same percentage as OTHER radio users; the FCC regulates ALL civil radio in the USA and the population of the USA is (keeping on) increasing. To be competitive just to retain desired bands against all other services requires a justification in citizen participants in amateur radio...which means it must at least keep up with the increasing population. The total number of amateur radio licensees as a percentage of the US population is only one factor in the regulatory process. Other factors include the number of *active* licensees, the way the allocated spectrum is used, compliance with FCC rules, the needs and wants of the ARS vs. other services, new and old technologies, to name but a few. 2. To retain a sizeable market for both equipment, components, and publications aimed at radio amateurs. There are many, many, many markets for electronics items today, much more so than a half century ago. Agreed. However, the variety of equipment available to radio amateurs today far exceeds that of the past, and the cost in constant dollars is far less. Manufacturers of equipment, components, and publications desire a large enough market to enable profit; shrinking market numbers are coincident with reduced profit and that be a no-no. Yet even small companies serving niches in the amateur radio market have demonstrated they can survive. 3. Actuarial tables will show that normal life span is going to have a greater effect on an activity where the participants are above the median population age...which increases the probability of earlier attrition of numbers. In other words, the older the population, the more of 'em are going to die off sooner. [regardless of egregious boasting or frequent, vociferous denial, radio amateurs will NOT live forever] Who boasted that? Note: amateur radio demographics indicate the participants are older than the national population median age. It would be interesting to see detailed statistics on that. Can you provide them, Len? Two caveats on median age comparisons: 1) There are relatively few radio amateurs younger than about 10 years of age. So any comparison to the general population should be adjusted to compensate for the fact that the median age of the US population can reasonably be expected to be lower than that of an activity such as amateur radio. 2) The source of amateur radio licensee age statistics can be problematic. The FCC has changed its policy on birthdate information as part of the requirements, so some licensees ages are known and others are unknown, making the FCC database a problematic source of licensee age information. Surveys and polls may or may not be a representative sample of the amateur radio population. A more illuminating statistic, IMHO, would be to compare the distribution of the ages of amateur radio operators to the distribution of the ages of the general population. 4. Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY. For many if not most radio amateurs, that is true. But there is a significant public service element to the amateur radio service that is not a part of most other "hobby" activities. There are many more types and kinds of activity available to the population today versus a half century ago and that is competition for available free time for hobbyists. There are also more hobbyists and more free time. More retirees and semi-retirees. People are living longer and staying active longer. Greater numbers of amateur radio participants will increase exposure and possible interest to the general public, demonstrate to government agencies for favorable decisions in favor of amateur radio participants. That is true only if the "greater numbers" are active, visible, and present a positive image to the general public and government agencies. Note: The ARRL membership as of the end of 2004 was only 140 thousand while the Academy of Model Aeronautics, the USA national membership organization of model airplane flyers was 175 thousand at that same time. [source: website statements of both organizations] An interesting statistic, but of itself tells little. Additional information is needed to understand the full meaning. For example, what does it cost to be a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics? How long is a membership good for? What services does the Academy offer its membership? 5. The no-code-test Technician Class license has only been available for 14 years and (as of Sunday, 5 Jun 05) already has 293,613 licensees out of a total of 722,452 individual licenses in the USA. The above numbers include expired-but-in-the-grace-period licenses as well as current (unexpired) licenses. The number of current licenses is significantly lower. The term "no-code-test Technician Class" is not entirely accurate. An unknown number of amateur whose license class is Technician have passed a code test. These include: - Former Novices who passed the Technician written test after April 15, 2000 - Former Technician Plus licensees who renewed their licenses after April 15, 2000 - Technician licensees who passed the code test after April 1, 2000 but who have not upgraded to a higher license class. Had that not been available, the total number of amateur licenses would have SHRUNK by a sizeable number. This statement is an opinion, not a fact. There is no way to know for sure what would have happened. However, it should be noted that, in the 9 years and two months from February 14, 1991 to April 15, 2000, the overall growth in the number of FCC issued amateur radio licenses was less in both total number of licenses and percentage growth, than the growth for an equal period of time before February 14, 1991. (That date is when the Technician class license no longer required a code test). In addition, there has been a net loss of total FCC amateur radio licenses held by individuals since the restructuring of April 2000. Despite reductions in both code and written testing, and the reduction of license classes open to newcomers, growth has not occurred. The exact amount of shrinkage is unknown since it is impossible to accurately predict an alternate future. There is a logical contradiction here. First Len claimed that a "shrinkage" (loss of total number of licenses) would have occurred if the Technician had retained its 5 wpm code test. Then, he admits that it is impossible to accurately predict an alternate future. Both statements cannot be simultaneously true. One of them must be incorrect. That shrinkage could, at worst case, reduced the Sunday totals to 428,839 total individual licenses, a drop to 59.36 percent. The preceding statement is incorrect. The 293,613 Technician class licenses cited above are not all "no-code-test" licenses. Therefore, had the Technician retained its code test, at least some of those 293,613 would still be licensed amateurs. An additional unknown number would have earned licenses regardless of the code test. Currently (as of Sunday, 5 Jun 05) the no-code-test Technician class license represents 40.64 percent of the total individual license grants. The preceding statement does not recognize the fact that not all licenses of the Technician class are "no code test". It is therefore misleading to the point of possibly being incorrect. As the FCC continues to renew all Technician Plus licenses as Technician, the number of code-tested Technicians continues to grow. 6. The availability of communications resources to the general public has greatly expanded in the last half century. As it did in the half-century preceding ... As of the end of 2003 there were 100 MILLION cellular telephone subscriptions in the USA. [USA Census Bureau statement in early 2004] One in five families in the USA has SOME access to the Internet. [Census Bureau, same statement as for cellular telephony] Self-service facsimile machines are common in chain drugstores and office supply stores. Every government agency and nearly all military units of battalion size or equivalent have websites in the USA. Direct-dial-telephone service is available to all telephone subscribers in the USA from small towns to large urban areas; that includes direct dialing to foreign telephone subscribers. None of these are radio services that require licensing by the user. Indeed, most of them are not radio services at all. The only real significance of these communications alternatives to amateur radio growth is that they are additional choices for the person whose primary interest is the message rather than the medium. For the person who is more interested in "radio for its own sake", they are not a substitute. Consider the analogy of water transport. For millenia, watercraft were propelled by wind, muscles (human or animal) and/or water currents. Traveling by water meant those motive power sources and no others. Then the invention of steam and internal-combustion engines created a whole new set of alternatives. In less than a century, most water transportation abandoned wind and muscle power entirely, in favor of fossil-fueled and even nuclear-powered engines. Yet sailboats, rowboats and canoes still exist. They are most used by those for whom the journey is more than simply getting from Point A to Point B. The number of "eleven meter" CB transceivers in use in the USA is roughly 5 MILLION (electronic industry estimates several years ago); There is no way to know for sure how many of these are actually in use, because there is no license procedure for that radio service. The number quoted is a decline from the boom years of the "cb craze", about 30 years ago. Despite the low cost of cb equipment, the lack of licensing and rules enforcement, and the widespread availability, the cb service has been in decline from its peak for a couple of decades now - while the population considers to increase. "CB" has existed for 47 years. Citizens band allocations in the 27 MHz region were created 47 years ago, but the service goes back to 1948, when UHF allocations were created by FCC. The current GMRS and FRS allocations are the direct descendants of those 1948 allocations. FRS and GMRS handheld, average 5-mile range, are available in consumer electronics stores/departments for less than $100 a pair (no license required for FRS radios). Throughout the USA public safety agencies have some form of non-amateur radio communications, as do utility, transportation, highway maintenance industries; the business and government radio market has long been established in the USA and major countries in the world. Yet in emergency situations, the amateur radio service continues to perform public service. As an adjunct to several items in competition for advertising income necessary to sustain some publications, it should be pointed out that the number of printed periodicals in the USA has tripled (almost quadrupled) in the last half century. Add to that the competiiton from the Internet ad markets since the public release of the Internet in 1991 and the advertising space purchasers are spread over a large number of venues. In USA amateur radio periodicals, Ham Radio, Ham Radio Horizons, 73, and CQ VHF have all been forced to close due to insufficient income from ad sales. [QEX and Communications Quarterly, a attempt at some resumption of Ham Radio magazine content, were joined, but with marginal success on ad space sales] Note: HR, 73, CQ are all "independent" periodical publishers whose operating income is dependent entirely on advertising space sales. The previous statement is obviously incorrect, since none of the above mentioned are free publications. It is obvious that "operating income" includes all income available for the production of a publication - advertising, subscriptions, etc. Some non-amateur-specific periodicals such as Popular Communications have enjoyed an increase in readership and drawing more ad space purchasers. Marketing follows trends and interests generated through advertising and adjusts product prices accordingly. Advertising, though irritating to some, is a good barometer of the "product weather." To sustain at least the status quo, U.S. amateur radio license numbers must follow the population increase. To be competitive for both attention and product pricing, as well as for favorable regulations and new products, the license numbers must grow. This may or may not be true. Simply increasing the number of licenses may not result in a larger market for equipment or publications, nor a more-favorable regulatory climate. The 27 MHz cb example is not what amateur radio should emulate. Individual radio amateurs have expressed an opinion that growth should NOT happen. Who would that be, Len? What did they say, exactly? Those may be looking at their own activities without regard for the overall national picture or advances in overall communications capabilities. To them everything is "comfortable" as it is. Perhaps. It is important, however, to evaluate whether proposed changes will actually bring growth, and also whether there will be negative effects connected with the proposed changes that will negate the positive effects of growth. Greater quantity will not help the ARS if the quality suffers too much. Those same "comfortable as it is" amateurs will begin to attrit in a decade or two and their numbers will drop. Who are you referring to, Len? That will shrink the number of licensees despite the recent increases due almost entirely to the no-code- test licensees of the last 14 years. In the past 5 years, the number of US hams has decreased, not increased. The total number of Technicians and Technician Pluses is lower now than 5 years ago. Shrinkage in numbers due to old-timers leaving must be offset by more than just that "new" no-code-test license class. What solution do you propose? |
From: on Mon 6 Jun 2005 08:11
wrote: wrote: "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" What Asian (?) country publishes book #5? Very hard to pronounce... :-) |
wrote: From: on Mon 6 Jun 2005 08:11 wrote: wrote: "Going back" ain't gonna happen but let's not dig this one up for the umpteenth time. "How To Become A Radio Amateur" "Learning The Radiotelegraph Code" "Understanding Amateur Radio" "So You Want To Be A Ham" "ABC's of Hma Radio" What Asian (?) country publishes book #5? Very hard to pronounce... Was published by the Relayless Hma Radio League of the Principality of the Third Dynasty Hmong up in the hmountains back in their Indochina days. They hmoved to hMinneapolis years ago. :-) |
From: "John Smith" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 14:02
Although we have had our disagreements, here I give you credit--your ducks are beginning to look pretty organized--if not "absolutely" in a row... your post is a credit to the defense of amateur radio... That's simply untrue, "john smith." NO ONE may comment, talk, discuss, or otherwise be heard unless they have a valid amateur radio license. Such it is written by all those morsemen through which all amateur radio is truly represented in their service to the nation. |
From: on Mon 6 Jun 2005 18:17
wrote: From: "K0HB" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 03:14 The total number of amateur radio licensees as a percentage of the US population is only one factor in the regulatory process. Other factors include the number of *active* licensees, the way the That's simply untrue, ' [FCC constantly polls all amateurs to see if they are *active* and thus only the *active* amateurs count for anything by the morsemen who are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] Agreed. However, the variety of equipment available to radio amateurs today far exceeds that of the past, and the cost in constant dollars is far less. That's simply untrue, ' [beautiful, state-of-the transceivers can be built for under $100 by morsemen who are the true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] Yet even small companies serving niches in the amateur radio market have demonstrated they can survive. That's simply untrue, ' [all who dilligently serve the niches never go defunct] In other words, the older the population, the more of 'em are going to die off sooner. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen live forever and are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] 1) There are relatively few radio amateurs younger than about 10 years of age. So any comparison to the general population should be adjusted to compensate for the fact that the median age of the US population can reasonably be expected to be lower than that of an activity such as amateur radio. That's simply untrue, ' [all true morsemen began when under 14 years of age, live forever, and are the true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] 2) The source of amateur radio licensee age statistics can be problematic. The FCC has changed its policy on birthdate information as part of the requirements, so some licensees ages are known and others are unknown, making the FCC database a problematic source of licensee age information. Surveys and polls may or may not be a representative sample of the amateur radio population. That's simply untrue, ' ' has only to post and his words are true, for he is a morseman and truly representative of amateur radio in his service to the nation] A more illuminating statistic, IMHO, would be to compare the distribution of the ages of amateur radio operators to the distribution of the ages of the general population. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen are ageless and truly represent amateur radio in their service to the nation] 4. Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY. For many if not most radio amateurs, that is true. But there is a significant public service element to the amateur radio service that is not a part of most other "hobby" activities. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen serve their country in all amateurdom and are the only true representatives of amateur radio] There are also more hobbyists and more free time. More retirees and semi-retirees. People are living longer and staying active longer. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen are ageless and truly represent amateur radio in their service to the nation] That is true only if the "greater numbers" are active, visible, and present a positive image to the general public and government agencies. [morsemen serve their country in all things amateur, are the only true representatives] An interesting statistic, but of itself tells little. Additional information is needed to understand the full meaning. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen are the only ones that count for anything] For example, what does it cost to be a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics? How long is a membership good for? What services does the Academy offer its membership? [only morsemen are true representatives of anything and therefore all other activities are meaningless] The above numbers include expired-but-in-the-grace-period licenses as well as current (unexpired) licenses. The number of current licenses is significantly lower. [only morsemen are significant since they represent amateur radio in their service to the country] The term "no-code-test Technician Class" is not entirely accurate. An unknown number of amateur whose license class is Technician have passed a code test. These include: [only morsemen are significant since they represent amateur radio in their service to the country] In addition, there has been a net loss of total FCC amateur radio licenses held by individuals since the restructuring of April 2000. Despite reductions in both code and written testing, and the reduction of license classes open to newcomers, growth has not occurred. [the only true growth in radio is through morsemenship and thus morsemen truly represent amateur radio in their service to the nation] The preceding statement does not recognize the fact that not all licenses of the Technician class are "no code test". It is therefore misleading to the point of possibly being incorrect. [only morsemen are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] As the FCC continues to renew all Technician Plus licenses as Technician, the number of code-tested Technicians continues to grow. [only morsemen are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] None of these are radio services that require licensing by the user. Indeed, most of them are not radio services at all. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio] The only real significance of these communications alternatives to amateur radio growth is that they are additional choices for the person whose primary interest is the message rather than the medium. For the person who is more interested in "radio for its own sake", they are not a substitute. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio] Consider the analogy of water transport. For millenia, watercraft were propelled by wind, muscles (human or animal) and/or water currents. Traveling by water meant those motive power sources and no others. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio which, through amateurism is the national transportation served] Then the invention of steam and internal-combustion engines created a whole new set of alternatives. In less than a century, most water transportation abandoned wind and muscle power entirely, in favor of fossil-fueled and even nuclear-powered engines. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio which, through amateurism is the national transportation served] There is no way to know for sure how many of these are actually in use, because there is no license procedure for that radio service. The number quoted is a decline from the boom years of the "cb craze", about 30 years ago. Despite the low cost of cb equipment, the lack of licensing and rules enforcement, and the widespread availability, the cb service has been in decline from its peak for a couple of decades now - while the population considers to increase. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio which, through amateurism is the national transportation served] Citizens band allocations in the 27 MHz region were created 47 years ago, but the service goes back to 1948, when UHF allocations were created by FCC. The current GMRS and FRS allocations are the direct descendants of those 1948 allocations. That is simply mistaken, . The electromagnetic spectrum does not exist in frequency unless it has first been pioneered by amateurs, noted by the ARRL, and remarked upon by K1ZZ in a QST editorial. FCC does not count, physics do not count, the fact that the FCC did not exist prior to 1934 does not count. [the first mode in radio was telegraphy and that, in 1896, is the bedrock upon which morsemen trace their radiotelegraphy roots and morsemen are the only true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] Yet in emergency situations, the amateur radio service continues to perform public service. [so it is written by morsemen who are the true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] The previous statement is obviously incorrect, since none of the above mentioned are free publications. It is obvious that "operating income" includes all income available for the production of a publication - advertising, subscriptions, etc. You are simply mistaken, [so it is written by the morsemen who are all accomplished publishers as well as radio manufacturers and thus truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] This may or may not be true. Simply increasing the number of licenses may not result in a larger market for equipment or publications, nor a more-favorable regulatory climate. The 27 MHz cb example is not what amateur radio should emulate. [cb is the scum, the vileness of the devil, spawn of satan and the only true representatives of radio are the amateur morsemen serving their nation] Perhaps. It is important, however, to evaluate whether proposed changes will actually bring growth, and also whether there will be negative effects connected with the proposed changes that will negate the positive effects of growth. You are simply mistaken, . [only morsemen can know for they represent the true being of radio and the amateur service to their nation] In the past 5 years, the number of US hams has decreased, not increased. The total number of Technicians and Technician Pluses is lower now than 5 years ago. You are simply mistaken, . [only morsemen know the truth for they are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] What solution do you propose? Morse code. The salvation of humankind, morse code is the only answer to immortality, truth, justice, and the American Way. |
Len:
Naaa, a bunch of toothless old farts wrote that, don't be fooled... these are the same men who confuse a hobby license with a Phd... they take themselves much too seriously and expect other too... now, you can be a dern fool and pay attention to all that, or ignore it all and seek truth... Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... From: "John Smith" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 14:02 Although we have had our disagreements, here I give you credit--your ducks are beginning to look pretty organized--if not "absolutely" in a row... your post is a credit to the defense of amateur radio... That's simply untrue, "john smith." NO ONE may comment, talk, discuss, or otherwise be heard unless they have a valid amateur radio license. Such it is written by all those morsemen through which all amateur radio is truly represented in their service to the nation. |
.... "morsemen" have lost touch of reality... however, this is not
surprising, they attempt to pay homage to dead keys and recite the technology of yesteryear as relevant... soon this too will pass... Warmest regards, John wrote in message oups.com... From: on Mon 6 Jun 2005 18:17 wrote: From: "K0HB" on Mon 6 Jun 2005 03:14 The total number of amateur radio licensees as a percentage of the US population is only one factor in the regulatory process. Other factors include the number of *active* licensees, the way the That's simply untrue, ' [FCC constantly polls all amateurs to see if they are *active* and thus only the *active* amateurs count for anything by the morsemen who are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] Agreed. However, the variety of equipment available to radio amateurs today far exceeds that of the past, and the cost in constant dollars is far less. That's simply untrue, ' [beautiful, state-of-the transceivers can be built for under $100 by morsemen who are the true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] Yet even small companies serving niches in the amateur radio market have demonstrated they can survive. That's simply untrue, ' [all who dilligently serve the niches never go defunct] In other words, the older the population, the more of 'em are going to die off sooner. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen live forever and are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] 1) There are relatively few radio amateurs younger than about 10 years of age. So any comparison to the general population should be adjusted to compensate for the fact that the median age of the US population can reasonably be expected to be lower than that of an activity such as amateur radio. That's simply untrue, ' [all true morsemen began when under 14 years of age, live forever, and are the true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] 2) The source of amateur radio licensee age statistics can be problematic. The FCC has changed its policy on birthdate information as part of the requirements, so some licensees ages are known and others are unknown, making the FCC database a problematic source of licensee age information. Surveys and polls may or may not be a representative sample of the amateur radio population. That's simply untrue, ' ' has only to post and his words are true, for he is a morseman and truly representative of amateur radio in his service to the nation] A more illuminating statistic, IMHO, would be to compare the distribution of the ages of amateur radio operators to the distribution of the ages of the general population. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen are ageless and truly represent amateur radio in their service to the nation] 4. Amateur radio is basically a HOBBY. For many if not most radio amateurs, that is true. But there is a significant public service element to the amateur radio service that is not a part of most other "hobby" activities. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen serve their country in all amateurdom and are the only true representatives of amateur radio] There are also more hobbyists and more free time. More retirees and semi-retirees. People are living longer and staying active longer. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen are ageless and truly represent amateur radio in their service to the nation] That is true only if the "greater numbers" are active, visible, and present a positive image to the general public and government agencies. [morsemen serve their country in all things amateur, are the only true representatives] An interesting statistic, but of itself tells little. Additional information is needed to understand the full meaning. That's simply untrue, ' [morsemen are the only ones that count for anything] For example, what does it cost to be a member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics? How long is a membership good for? What services does the Academy offer its membership? [only morsemen are true representatives of anything and therefore all other activities are meaningless] The above numbers include expired-but-in-the-grace-period licenses as well as current (unexpired) licenses. The number of current licenses is significantly lower. [only morsemen are significant since they represent amateur radio in their service to the country] The term "no-code-test Technician Class" is not entirely accurate. An unknown number of amateur whose license class is Technician have passed a code test. These include: [only morsemen are significant since they represent amateur radio in their service to the country] In addition, there has been a net loss of total FCC amateur radio licenses held by individuals since the restructuring of April 2000. Despite reductions in both code and written testing, and the reduction of license classes open to newcomers, growth has not occurred. [the only true growth in radio is through morsemenship and thus morsemen truly represent amateur radio in their service to the nation] The preceding statement does not recognize the fact that not all licenses of the Technician class are "no code test". It is therefore misleading to the point of possibly being incorrect. [only morsemen are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] As the FCC continues to renew all Technician Plus licenses as Technician, the number of code-tested Technicians continues to grow. [only morsemen are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] None of these are radio services that require licensing by the user. Indeed, most of them are not radio services at all. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio] The only real significance of these communications alternatives to amateur radio growth is that they are additional choices for the person whose primary interest is the message rather than the medium. For the person who is more interested in "radio for its own sake", they are not a substitute. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio] Consider the analogy of water transport. For millenia, watercraft were propelled by wind, muscles (human or animal) and/or water currents. Traveling by water meant those motive power sources and no others. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio which, through amateurism is the national transportation served] Then the invention of steam and internal-combustion engines created a whole new set of alternatives. In less than a century, most water transportation abandoned wind and muscle power entirely, in favor of fossil-fueled and even nuclear-powered engines. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio which, through amateurism is the national transportation served] There is no way to know for sure how many of these are actually in use, because there is no license procedure for that radio service. The number quoted is a decline from the boom years of the "cb craze", about 30 years ago. Despite the low cost of cb equipment, the lack of licensing and rules enforcement, and the widespread availability, the cb service has been in decline from its peak for a couple of decades now - while the population considers to increase. [only amateur morsemen are truly representative of radio which, through amateurism is the national transportation served] Citizens band allocations in the 27 MHz region were created 47 years ago, but the service goes back to 1948, when UHF allocations were created by FCC. The current GMRS and FRS allocations are the direct descendants of those 1948 allocations. That is simply mistaken, . The electromagnetic spectrum does not exist in frequency unless it has first been pioneered by amateurs, noted by the ARRL, and remarked upon by K1ZZ in a QST editorial. FCC does not count, physics do not count, the fact that the FCC did not exist prior to 1934 does not count. [the first mode in radio was telegraphy and that, in 1896, is the bedrock upon which morsemen trace their radiotelegraphy roots and morsemen are the only true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] Yet in emergency situations, the amateur radio service continues to perform public service. [so it is written by morsemen who are the true representatives of amateur radio in their service to the nation] The previous statement is obviously incorrect, since none of the above mentioned are free publications. It is obvious that "operating income" includes all income available for the production of a publication - advertising, subscriptions, etc. You are simply mistaken, [so it is written by the morsemen who are all accomplished publishers as well as radio manufacturers and thus truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] This may or may not be true. Simply increasing the number of licenses may not result in a larger market for equipment or publications, nor a more-favorable regulatory climate. The 27 MHz cb example is not what amateur radio should emulate. [cb is the scum, the vileness of the devil, spawn of satan and the only true representatives of radio are the amateur morsemen serving their nation] Perhaps. It is important, however, to evaluate whether proposed changes will actually bring growth, and also whether there will be negative effects connected with the proposed changes that will negate the positive effects of growth. You are simply mistaken, . [only morsemen can know for they represent the true being of radio and the amateur service to their nation] In the past 5 years, the number of US hams has decreased, not increased. The total number of Technicians and Technician Pluses is lower now than 5 years ago. You are simply mistaken, . [only morsemen know the truth for they are truly representative of amateur radio in their service to the nation] What solution do you propose? Morse code. The salvation of humankind, morse code is the only answer to immortality, truth, justice, and the American Way. |
From: "John Smith" on Tues 7 Jun 2005 13:13
Len: Naaa, a bunch of toothless old farts wrote that, don't be fooled... these are the same men who confuse a hobby license with a Phd... they take themselves much too seriously and expect other too... now, you can be a dern fool and pay attention to all that, or ignore it all and seek truth... "John Smith," ya gotta know da TERRITORY! This place be da BLOG of the Mighty Macho Morsemen, serving the nation through amateur radio! First of all, only one in here apparently is "toothless," that of the Cursing Tomb Sentinel who never shows any teeth in his mighty photo portraits and "action" candids. [he of the "seven hostile actions"] Then we have the NO-Serving (except through morsemanship which is their true representative of U.S. amateur radio) who make jolly good laffs and pointy fingers at those of us who have served our country in the military. There are the apparently brain-damaged who are confused and curse those of us who know the truth...because we have done things not described by the official voice of radio, ARRL. One of the greatest of the apparently brain-damaged was in firm conviction of the ARRL Handbook as being "a standard book on every [electronic] engineer's desk." He got very upset when asked to prove that statement. Being a "lecturer at the University of Hawaii" (instructor at a junior college attached the university) he was unfamiliar with engineering per se but was a champion of morsemanship and once heard a ship "scream" through CW. There have been many others, some no longer with us. They all have variations on the common dreams of wish-fulfillment and self-importance. They are a SERVICE TO THE NATION for taking up the hobby of amateur radio, "proving it" by pointing (heatedly) to the FCC's definition of "Amateur Radio Service." Unfortunately they overlook the simple fact that EVERY radio type and kind in Title 47 C.F.R. is called a Service ("service" in Title 47 is a regulatory term). They have their "academic certificates" in the form of FCC amateur radio license forms (suitable for framing) and thus are BETTER than PhDs. They are nearly all claiming they, as amateurs, are BETTER than professionals. Of course they are ...in their minds. Some have passed a morse code test at high rate and that is even GREATER than their "academic achievement" license certificates. They are RADIOTELEGRAPHERS! The nobelest achievement in their world. Never mind that actual jobs of radiotelegraphy are akin to chicken having teeth, they have FANGS of expertise and bite all who dare accost them in this newsgroup. They are CHAMPIONS, they are HEROES, they are a bit nuts with self-love, self-promotion, self- righteousness that doesn't stop. "The truth is out there" is more than a TV show catchphrase. It is reality of the rest of the radio world. Few of these mighty macho morsemen have the courage to find out...they await their revelations in the pages of QST where they are spoon-fed what a few in Newington think is what they ought to know. So, to coexist in this Morsemen's BLOG, one has to "agree" and kiss their figurative asses, take their unflogging cursing and denigrations. Morsemen RULE RADIO in this little BLOG. Morsemen must be fed a steady emotional diet of gratuitous (and unwarranted) praise for their mighty efforts and skills. THEY know all. Like already. Get the picture? :-) |
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:11:17 -0700, kelly wrote:
SNIP Me I license about a dozen or so 10 - 15 year old kids a year as new hams. What do you do to promote the hobby? Perhaps you have not made an effort to promote the hobby to them, teach and mentor them. Do something make a contribution, make a difference. -- Korbin Dallas The name was changed to protect the guilty. |
I was gonna say that!!! (but, you did say it better!)
But glad you clarified, certainly is close to my take on the whole thing--you think you might be the only one who has ever told them the truth--of how it all looks in others eyes? If not, you suppose the problem is that they didn't believe the first guy? grin Warmest regards, John wrote in message ups.com... From: "John Smith" on Tues 7 Jun 2005 13:13 Len: Naaa, a bunch of toothless old farts wrote that, don't be fooled... these are the same men who confuse a hobby license with a Phd... they take themselves much too seriously and expect other too... now, you can be a dern fool and pay attention to all that, or ignore it all and seek truth... "John Smith," ya gotta know da TERRITORY! This place be da BLOG of the Mighty Macho Morsemen, serving the nation through amateur radio! First of all, only one in here apparently is "toothless," that of the Cursing Tomb Sentinel who never shows any teeth in his mighty photo portraits and "action" candids. [he of the "seven hostile actions"] Then we have the NO-Serving (except through morsemanship which is their true representative of U.S. amateur radio) who make jolly good laffs and pointy fingers at those of us who have served our country in the military. There are the apparently brain-damaged who are confused and curse those of us who know the truth...because we have done things not described by the official voice of radio, ARRL. One of the greatest of the apparently brain-damaged was in firm conviction of the ARRL Handbook as being "a standard book on every [electronic] engineer's desk." He got very upset when asked to prove that statement. Being a "lecturer at the University of Hawaii" (instructor at a junior college attached the university) he was unfamiliar with engineering per se but was a champion of morsemanship and once heard a ship "scream" through CW. There have been many others, some no longer with us. They all have variations on the common dreams of wish-fulfillment and self-importance. They are a SERVICE TO THE NATION for taking up the hobby of amateur radio, "proving it" by pointing (heatedly) to the FCC's definition of "Amateur Radio Service." Unfortunately they overlook the simple fact that EVERY radio type and kind in Title 47 C.F.R. is called a Service ("service" in Title 47 is a regulatory term). They have their "academic certificates" in the form of FCC amateur radio license forms (suitable for framing) and thus are BETTER than PhDs. They are nearly all claiming they, as amateurs, are BETTER than professionals. Of course they are ...in their minds. Some have passed a morse code test at high rate and that is even GREATER than their "academic achievement" license certificates. They are RADIOTELEGRAPHERS! The nobelest achievement in their world. Never mind that actual jobs of radiotelegraphy are akin to chicken having teeth, they have FANGS of expertise and bite all who dare accost them in this newsgroup. They are CHAMPIONS, they are HEROES, they are a bit nuts with self-love, self-promotion, self- righteousness that doesn't stop. "The truth is out there" is more than a TV show catchphrase. It is reality of the rest of the radio world. Few of these mighty macho morsemen have the courage to find out...they await their revelations in the pages of QST where they are spoon-fed what a few in Newington think is what they ought to know. So, to coexist in this Morsemen's BLOG, one has to "agree" and kiss their figurative asses, take their unflogging cursing and denigrations. Morsemen RULE RADIO in this little BLOG. Morsemen must be fed a steady emotional diet of gratuitous (and unwarranted) praise for their mighty efforts and skills. THEY know all. Like already. Get the picture? :-) |
|
Korbin Dallas wrote:
On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:11:17 -0700, kelly wrote: SNIP Me I license about a dozen or so 10 - 15 year old kids a year as new hams. Outstanding. Where/how do you find all these kids? What do you do to promote the hobby? Perhaps you have not made an effort to promote the hobby to them, teach and mentor them. That's true although over the years I have managed to bring a few kids into the hobby when the opportunity presented itself. But I don't go out looking for candidate kids. Not everyone is cut out to recruit/teach kids anything on an ongoing basis and I'm one of those. Do something make a contribution, make a difference. Welp let's see here . . I recently led an effort which raised a bit over $2,000 for the ARRL Spectrum Defense Fund part of which was my check for a hundred bucks. Helping preserve the bands for the kids, etc. Does that count? -- Korbin Dallas The name was changed to protect the guilty. Hmmmm . . w3rv |
From: "John Smith" on Tues 7 Jun 2005 21:18
I was gonna say that!!! (but, you did say it better!) Thank you...but it's only a summation of what has gone on in here for years, said by others as well as I. :-) But glad you clarified, certainly is close to my take on the whole thing--you think you might be the only one who has ever told them the truth--of how it all looks in others eyes? If not, you suppose the problem is that they didn't believe the first guy? grin Actually there were dozens in here since 1996 trying to point out the TRUTH, but the die-hard morsemen would have none of it, preferring their own wonderful fantasies. Most simply got tired of wasting their time trying to argue against those (sometimes irrational) "believers." One of the redoubtable fanstasizers was Jim Kehler, KH2D, on Guam. He went so far as to "found" the fake organization known as "No SSB International" to counter the established No Code International (NCI) organiztion. NSI had very good web page design but was hampered by their "leader," Kehler, possessed of a zealot's blunt axe of words. NSI no longer exists as any effective group. NCI continues. NCI leaders helped to bring about the revision of S25 for international amateur radio standards at WRC-03...along with the IARU... even though hampered by the resistance of ARRL at the time. Kehler had some kind of illness and moved to the contiguous USA a few years ago. He had a website of his own (may still have) and kept digging and digging at those code-tested he did not like...in rather not-nice terms such as "brain-dead old farts." :-) The international maritime world selected GMDSS as THE distress-and-safety automatic calling system a few years ago, abandoning the old, romantic stalwart 500 KHz distress frequency with its "CW" only capability. The USCG has stopped monitoring that 500 KHz frequency. Some in here (notably W0EX in Missouri, probably SK now) tried to tell all "it wouldn't work!" by repeatedly quoting some retired mariner (who was oblivious to the fact that the international maritime folks had already tested the system and found that it does work!). The FCC has added GMDSS commercial licensing class categories (a few years ago) in Title 47 C.F.R. and COLEMs do the testing for those (rather simple) written license tests. The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) has abandoned "CW" necessity for long over-water flights and air carrier navigator-radio personnel were "downsized" (laid-off, given their pension monies, waved bye-bye). ICAO switched to voice on HF for such tasks. Maritimers on the shipping lanes now use SSB voice and various TORs (Teleprinter Over Radio) on HF for long-distance communications. More expeditious for them, less error-prone than "CW." River and harbor communications switched to VHF voice decades ago for water-borne radio communications. Outside of some long-ago-installed automatic station identifiers using preset ID beepers, the only users of "CW" in the USA are the amateur radiotelegraphers. Members of the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) do some remarkable rationalization on "why" all MUST test for morsemanship to gain HF privileges: "It is the SECOND-most popular mode;" "it is needed so all can communicate with third-world hams;" "it is a 'traditional' and 'basic' mode;" "they need to know it so that all can communicate during extreme emergencies (perhaps when space aliens invade the earth)." The old, tired, trite "CW gets through when nothing else will" still surfaces even though first coined in the 1930s. Put into terms of reality, the morsemen had to test for it and therefore all newcomers have to do it (the "jump through the hoops" hazing syndrome)...nya, nya. :-) A sub-group of the mighty macho morsemen are the ex-service- members (military service that is) who demand a militaristic structure of defined rank-status-privilege with the "best" privileges naturally bestowed on those with the highest rank. [they self-define themselves as "deserving" of it] All of the military mighty macho morsemen are anal to a point of near-insanity on strict, unbending legalities with implied capital-offense punishment to be immediately applied to the poor souls who look for change in regulations. They "believe" all the usual political propaganda statements to be (almost) words of God and gleefully pin on their "deserved" medals for engaging in a hobby activity that requires federal regulation (due to the nature of EM physics). All that fuss and furor over a HOBBY activity! None may say nay to the divine-right of ham rule by the mighty macho morsemen! :-) |
Yes.
Well, you cannot disguise the fact that the over 60 crowd just don't have the energy or enthusiasm as the teenage to 30 crowd--or the fact that these younger people are actively engaged in the research, development and production phases of electronics. Why they may effectively hang on limiting the hobby--this cannot not go on indefinitely... And, while it is true only those with a wet diaper can truly appreciate change--change is in the wind... the next decade should provide a dip in number of licenses which has never been seen before... this is only the beginning... Warmest regards, John wrote in message ups.com... From: "John Smith" on Tues 7 Jun 2005 21:18 I was gonna say that!!! (but, you did say it better!) Thank you...but it's only a summation of what has gone on in here for years, said by others as well as I. :-) But glad you clarified, certainly is close to my take on the whole thing--you think you might be the only one who has ever told them the truth--of how it all looks in others eyes? If not, you suppose the problem is that they didn't believe the first guy? grin Actually there were dozens in here since 1996 trying to point out the TRUTH, but the die-hard morsemen would have none of it, preferring their own wonderful fantasies. Most simply got tired of wasting their time trying to argue against those (sometimes irrational) "believers." One of the redoubtable fanstasizers was Jim Kehler, KH2D, on Guam. He went so far as to "found" the fake organization known as "No SSB International" to counter the established No Code International (NCI) organiztion. NSI had very good web page design but was hampered by their "leader," Kehler, possessed of a zealot's blunt axe of words. NSI no longer exists as any effective group. NCI continues. NCI leaders helped to bring about the revision of S25 for international amateur radio standards at WRC-03...along with the IARU... even though hampered by the resistance of ARRL at the time. Kehler had some kind of illness and moved to the contiguous USA a few years ago. He had a website of his own (may still have) and kept digging and digging at those code-tested he did not like...in rather not-nice terms such as "brain-dead old farts." :-) The international maritime world selected GMDSS as THE distress-and-safety automatic calling system a few years ago, abandoning the old, romantic stalwart 500 KHz distress frequency with its "CW" only capability. The USCG has stopped monitoring that 500 KHz frequency. Some in here (notably W0EX in Missouri, probably SK now) tried to tell all "it wouldn't work!" by repeatedly quoting some retired mariner (who was oblivious to the fact that the international maritime folks had already tested the system and found that it does work!). The FCC has added GMDSS commercial licensing class categories (a few years ago) in Title 47 C.F.R. and COLEMs do the testing for those (rather simple) written license tests. The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) has abandoned "CW" necessity for long over-water flights and air carrier navigator-radio personnel were "downsized" (laid-off, given their pension monies, waved bye-bye). ICAO switched to voice on HF for such tasks. Maritimers on the shipping lanes now use SSB voice and various TORs (Teleprinter Over Radio) on HF for long-distance communications. More expeditious for them, less error-prone than "CW." River and harbor communications switched to VHF voice decades ago for water-borne radio communications. Outside of some long-ago-installed automatic station identifiers using preset ID beepers, the only users of "CW" in the USA are the amateur radiotelegraphers. Members of the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) do some remarkable rationalization on "why" all MUST test for morsemanship to gain HF privileges: "It is the SECOND-most popular mode;" "it is needed so all can communicate with third-world hams;" "it is a 'traditional' and 'basic' mode;" "they need to know it so that all can communicate during extreme emergencies (perhaps when space aliens invade the earth)." The old, tired, trite "CW gets through when nothing else will" still surfaces even though first coined in the 1930s. Put into terms of reality, the morsemen had to test for it and therefore all newcomers have to do it (the "jump through the hoops" hazing syndrome)...nya, nya. :-) A sub-group of the mighty macho morsemen are the ex-service- members (military service that is) who demand a militaristic structure of defined rank-status-privilege with the "best" privileges naturally bestowed on those with the highest rank. [they self-define themselves as "deserving" of it] All of the military mighty macho morsemen are anal to a point of near-insanity on strict, unbending legalities with implied capital-offense punishment to be immediately applied to the poor souls who look for change in regulations. They "believe" all the usual political propaganda statements to be (almost) words of God and gleefully pin on their "deserved" medals for engaging in a hobby activity that requires federal regulation (due to the nature of EM physics). All that fuss and furor over a HOBBY activity! None may say nay to the divine-right of ham rule by the mighty macho morsemen! :-) |
Len:
A direct quote from Jim Haynie, "The ARRL president asserted that many Amateur Extra class licensees couldn't pass today's Element 4 examination if they had to..." Complete article at: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/05/22/1/?nc=1 Warmest regards, John wrote in message ups.com... From: "John Smith" on Tues 7 Jun 2005 21:18 I was gonna say that!!! (but, you did say it better!) Thank you...but it's only a summation of what has gone on in here for years, said by others as well as I. :-) But glad you clarified, certainly is close to my take on the whole thing--you think you might be the only one who has ever told them the truth--of how it all looks in others eyes? If not, you suppose the problem is that they didn't believe the first guy? grin Actually there were dozens in here since 1996 trying to point out the TRUTH, but the die-hard morsemen would have none of it, preferring their own wonderful fantasies. Most simply got tired of wasting their time trying to argue against those (sometimes irrational) "believers." One of the redoubtable fanstasizers was Jim Kehler, KH2D, on Guam. He went so far as to "found" the fake organization known as "No SSB International" to counter the established No Code International (NCI) organiztion. NSI had very good web page design but was hampered by their "leader," Kehler, possessed of a zealot's blunt axe of words. NSI no longer exists as any effective group. NCI continues. NCI leaders helped to bring about the revision of S25 for international amateur radio standards at WRC-03...along with the IARU... even though hampered by the resistance of ARRL at the time. Kehler had some kind of illness and moved to the contiguous USA a few years ago. He had a website of his own (may still have) and kept digging and digging at those code-tested he did not like...in rather not-nice terms such as "brain-dead old farts." :-) The international maritime world selected GMDSS as THE distress-and-safety automatic calling system a few years ago, abandoning the old, romantic stalwart 500 KHz distress frequency with its "CW" only capability. The USCG has stopped monitoring that 500 KHz frequency. Some in here (notably W0EX in Missouri, probably SK now) tried to tell all "it wouldn't work!" by repeatedly quoting some retired mariner (who was oblivious to the fact that the international maritime folks had already tested the system and found that it does work!). The FCC has added GMDSS commercial licensing class categories (a few years ago) in Title 47 C.F.R. and COLEMs do the testing for those (rather simple) written license tests. The ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) has abandoned "CW" necessity for long over-water flights and air carrier navigator-radio personnel were "downsized" (laid-off, given their pension monies, waved bye-bye). ICAO switched to voice on HF for such tasks. Maritimers on the shipping lanes now use SSB voice and various TORs (Teleprinter Over Radio) on HF for long-distance communications. More expeditious for them, less error-prone than "CW." River and harbor communications switched to VHF voice decades ago for water-borne radio communications. Outside of some long-ago-installed automatic station identifiers using preset ID beepers, the only users of "CW" in the USA are the amateur radiotelegraphers. Members of the ARS (Archaic Radiotelegraphy Society) do some remarkable rationalization on "why" all MUST test for morsemanship to gain HF privileges: "It is the SECOND-most popular mode;" "it is needed so all can communicate with third-world hams;" "it is a 'traditional' and 'basic' mode;" "they need to know it so that all can communicate during extreme emergencies (perhaps when space aliens invade the earth)." The old, tired, trite "CW gets through when nothing else will" still surfaces even though first coined in the 1930s. Put into terms of reality, the morsemen had to test for it and therefore all newcomers have to do it (the "jump through the hoops" hazing syndrome)...nya, nya. :-) A sub-group of the mighty macho morsemen are the ex-service- members (military service that is) who demand a militaristic structure of defined rank-status-privilege with the "best" privileges naturally bestowed on those with the highest rank. [they self-define themselves as "deserving" of it] All of the military mighty macho morsemen are anal to a point of near-insanity on strict, unbending legalities with implied capital-offense punishment to be immediately applied to the poor souls who look for change in regulations. They "believe" all the usual political propaganda statements to be (almost) words of God and gleefully pin on their "deserved" medals for engaging in a hobby activity that requires federal regulation (due to the nature of EM physics). All that fuss and furor over a HOBBY activity! None may say nay to the divine-right of ham rule by the mighty macho morsemen! :-) |
John Smith wrote: Yes. Well, you cannot disguise the fact that the over 60 crowd just don't have the energy or enthusiasm as the teenage to 30 crowd--or the fact that these younger people are actively engaged in the research, development and production phases of electronics. Why they may effectively hang on limiting the hobby--this cannot not go on indefinitely... John, there is hope. I took a look at the actuarial tables shortly after joining this newsgripe, and it look like they are working in our favor. We can help it work by not turning into the very type of amateur that the tables are currently removing from hamdom. And, while it is true only those with a wet diaper can truly appreciate change--change is in the wind... the next decade should provide a dip in number of licenses which has never been seen before... this is only the beginning... Warmest regards, John Progress! |
From: John Smith on Jun 8, 5:35 pm
Yes. Well, you cannot disguise the fact that the over 60 crowd just don't have the energy or enthusiasm as the teenage to 30 crowd--or the fact that these younger people are actively engaged in the research, development and production phases of electronics. Why they may effectively hang on limiting the hobby--this cannot not go on indefinitely... And, while it is true only those with a wet diaper can truly appreciate change--change is in the wind... the next decade should provide a dip in number of licenses which has never been seen before... this is only the beginning... The mighty macho morsemen cannot conceive of that. They are immortal. They RULE. [they've said as much...] However, "energy and enthusiasm" is a function of both individual genes and mental outlook. "Enthusiasm" in half-century-old state- of-the-art techiques and practices should be consigned to niche nostalgia places, not kept as federal regulations. Many of the stratification crowd seem to hang onto their "enthusiasm" of their young days as if it were a lifeline to some imagined fountain of youth promising that they will remain younger than springtime by holding to old paradigms. [Rodgers and Hammerstein could do a great musical opera on that if Rodgers wasn't a silent (piano) key and Oscar wasn't a silent pen...but it wouldn't play in Newington] [well, maybe a version of "Carousel" since these olde-fahrts keep going around and around and around...] My own viewpoint is different. By virtue of being born when I was, my lifetime has seen the comming of the solid-state era and the definite decay of vacuum tube technology...that bringing a virtual explosion of different applications, new and exciting SOCs (Systems On a Chip)...plus a whole new set of passive and semi-active components and ways to hold them all together. Technology-wise that is truly WONDERFUL and MARVELOUS. We all have the capability of high-speed data and imagery communications internationally, 24/7, no worries about the condition of the ionosphere...all for less than $2000 in today's dollars to get a "mainframe" computer on a desk and a year's subscription to an ISP. Buy-sell-trade, do personal banking, keep family in touch at all times etc., etc., etc. My personal enthusiasm on the technology just grows and grows from keeping in touch with the new developments and seeing the products (some delivered to my door after electronic ordering). I'm not going to see the end of even if the mortal world sees my end. That's the way of humans being. Others, the stratification crowd, the staunch defenders of the status quo, demand a HALT to progress, NO CHANGE. Keep all nice and tidy and belonging just the way it was when they were young. Psychological reassurances of their "safety." Denial of the fact that they ARE getting on. Denial of the fact that other, younger people MIGHT be interested in doing this ham radio hobby thing. Oh, some of them whip up some adrenaline and do lip-service to old, trite phrases of "helping youngsters" and all that but the MUST keep THEIR playground in their order. NO changes allowed. Most don't help, don't bother to learn how to help. Why would a young person of today WANT to study morse code just to communicate on HF? Other than being in a "ham family?" The Internet opened to the public 14 years ago and most of the world is connected to the net. A shrink wrap CB transceiver is available over the counter for less than $100, complete with antenna and microphone. A pair of FRS hand-helds costs only $50 maximum and permits 5 mile two-way talking with isolation via digital mode. A cell phone with a built-in camera costs less than $100 and can communicate anywhere within range of a cell site...to the rest of the telephonic world. One in five Americans have cell phone subscriptions. Need to send documents across country fast? Go to chain drugstores and use their FAX machines. All sorts of quick communications possibilities for all today. COMPETITION OF INTEREST. Competition of quality and dependability. And all that hasn't touched on the OTHER advantages the younger folk have today, things that are entertaining, interesting, mind-holding. In truth, some young folks LIKE certain old things. That's been true in every generation. The best-ever stagecoaches are built today...in either California or Arizona (depending on your guild location)...for movie and TV use. Horseback riding is for personal pleasure today. It isn't a requirement to survive as it once was. When we want to send a telegram today, it is done by data modes probably through fiber-optic lines, transmission at relatively unlimited speed, securely and without error. No one has to go to the old train office and have some manual telegrapher translate it and send it at 10 to 20 words per minute. That was for times older than a century ago. Today's ham can purchase a top-of-the-line HF transceiver, fancy antenna and tower, peripheral gizmos up the gazoo, all for less than $5000. They get rock-solid frequency stability and read-out of same down to 10 Hz increments...Digital Signal Processing, "VFO 'split'" with frequency memories, sharp crystal filters to reduce QRM and QRN to a minimum...even operate it through a PC! None of that was available in a single package a half century ago. But, the olde-fahrts can sit back and dictate all MUST test for the 161-year-old "technology" skill of morse code on that HF. Incredible dichotomy. Incredible hypocrisy. Actuarial tables will manifest themselves. The mighty macho morsemen WILL have their morse keys pried out of their cold, dead fingers. Your prediction will come to pass. Perhaps much sooner than they expected. RIP. Bip Bip |
John Smith wrote:
Len: A direct quote from Jim Haynie, "The ARRL president asserted that many Amateur Extra class licensees couldn't pass today's Element 4 examination if they had to..." Complete article at: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/05/22/1/?nc=1 Haynie's mistake is in assuming that because he might have trouble passing it, many others would also have difficulty. Dave K8MN |
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