John Smith wrote:
Kelly:

Yep. Personal attacks, don't discuss what is not in your personal
self-interests. Call those with differing ideas a troll, deny a problem
exists, etc, etc, etc...

Gee, where have I seen this behavior before...

John

(yawn)

Zzzzzz . . .

N2EY:

Apparently you don't understand IQ scores...

IQ is measured by you ability to extrapolate off common knowledge and
use the products of such to solve new solutions which the "test'ee" is
unfamiliar with... it is the ability of the mind to adapt to new
situations, new conditions, new ideas and come up with new solutions...

It is also pattern recognition...

It is NOT a "religious beliefs" in existing knowledge, it is NOT
upholding traditions and methods for historical reasons...

One thing it is NOT is wrote learning... a chimpanzee can do that...

Warmest regards,
John

wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message
...

... oh, I love that argument!!! Let me see if I have it
correctly,
either:

1) Women are too stupid for the technical fields.

That claim is incorrect.

But it reveals something about its writer.

Some people still believe the idea that intelligence can be
meaningfully measured/expressed as a single numeric quantity.
As if IQ scores told all.

The fact of the matter is that there are a number of different
types of intelligence - at least seven different, distinct
kinds have been identified. A person can be a genius in one
intelligence area and barely functional in another.

The phrase "are too stupid for the technical fields" reveals
that its author still believes the single-quantity concept.


Uh-Huh. You trump all of 'em in that game.

How you managed to twist Mike's words to come up with this
interpretation is
amazing. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort.

Exactly.

2) We are no worse than any other technical field about baring
women.

Spelling doesn't seem to be a strong suit, though..

He said nothing about barring women from technical fields. Again
how you
managed to come up with this inverted interpretation is one of
the mysteries
of the world. Women choose not to go into technical fields for
their own
reasons. That includes hobby activities like ham radio.

He's another Burke Dee, a male ditz/troll, he isn't worth the effort,
ignore the goofball.

Thank you. I work with a number of female engineers, and they seem
to
have no problem working with me. My opinion on the issue is based
on
conversations with them.

I smell an oddity here. Dee is an engineer who apparently works in
academia. You also work in academia and know some number of woman
engineers who are also in academia. I've been out here in the
commercial side for decades and per previous have had very few
encounters with woman engineers. Is it possible that the woman
engineers I don't see out here are operating in academia instead??
Would not surprise me a bit if that's the case.

Here's what I've observed:

1) Most technical fields have been predominatly male for a whole bunch
of reasons. That's changing but it takes a long time, because you
don't
become a senior engineer overnight.

2) "Technical field" covers a lot of ground. Medical technology - is
that
technical or medical?

3) The factors involving career choice are many and varied. Just one
example:

Back in the
1970s, when I was in high school, a lot of girls I knew who would have
excelled in the technical fields were essentially dequalified by the
schools they went to. The boys' high schools offered lots of math and
science courses at all levels, while the girls' high schools did not,
focusing more on languages, social studies, and related fields. The
division was subtle but effective - very few girls from those schools
went into technical fields in college, while lots of boys did.

Especially one who bristles at being called a
"female" engineer. She says "Just call me an engineer, if you don't
mind!"

Works for me.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On 15 Jun 2005 17:01:18 -0700, wrote:

In all my 43 years in engineering I've met a grand total of four woman
engineers, two MEs, one EE and a Chem E.

In my 50 years in engineering I've =dated= more women engineers than
you seem to have met, was engaged to one (nuclear engineer) and
married another (EE). In my wife's office alone there are more than
4 =PEs= on her floor, including the chief of the structural engineering
section (imagine that, a lady tower engineer). Had my wife gone
through the paperwork as she talked about twenty years ago she, too,
would have been a PE.

Our contesting club alone has
three female members, an old girlfriend is a ham and I met W3CUL. Out
of Lord only knows how many engineers and hams I've met over the years.

In our club, the largest radio club in the state if not in the
Pacific Northwest, about 1/3 of the hams are women, and of them,
about half are active on the air in some fashion or other.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:24:54 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:

Wait 'till they hit the course or assignment that throws them back
into the mortal realm. We've all hit that point at one time or
another....


And it's a real shock the first time it happens.

Can you say grad school "Advanced Atomic Physics" ? ggg

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:03:51 -0400, Cmd Buzz Corey wrote:

How many women get their pilots license as compared to men?

I don't know. I'll have to ask our friend Jane who owns and flys
her own air taxi service....

Ever go to a quilting meeting? How many men did you see there?

Quilting, I have no idea. I do know that our friend Paul is one of
the better local crochet artists - he does specialty work such as
Jewish skullcaps with intricate designs and teaches same at local
congregations.

Ever go to an antique radio swap meet? You will find a lot more men
collecting and fixing old radios than women.

One of the more prominent collectors and restorers of WW-II-era
military radios is a woman - who is also the communications chief
for one of the major California cities.

Do you collect dolls, tea sets, china dishes? No? Lots of women do.

As do most of the dealers in that field, who are overwhelmingly male.


--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:11:41 GMT, robert casey wrote:

Perhaps what bothers some people the most about the code test
is that it isn't something most people already know. And it
isn't something that can be learned by reading a book, watching
a video, etc. It's a skill, not "book learning".

That makes it a real PITA to people who are good at book
learnin' and not so hot at motor skills.

Those are the same people who get As in Chemistry but Ds in Chem
Lab.....

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

- Not all Technicians are "nocodetest". The FCC has been renewing all
Technician and Technician Plus licenses as Technician for more than 5
years, and in less than 5 more years there will be no more Technician
Pluses at all, because they will all have either expired or been
renewed as Technicians. In that same time period,
Novices who pass Element 2 get Technician licenses, not Technician
Pluses. And any Technician who passes Element 1 is still shown as
Technician on the database.


I used to be an "old" tech plus. Partly to avoid the above
ambiguity I upgraded. Could have just got a paperwork
only upgrade to general, but decided to go for extra.

John Smith wrote:
Kelly:

Yep. I think you are unaware that some of us out here have our licenses,
got our radios fired up, tune the bands--and it is nothing but the same
old, same old...

We do see all the rag chews, boring rants, same operators, same gripes,
same rants, same little groups, same ideas, same conversations as
yesterday--day, after day, after day...

I am sure a lot of 'em are sitting there waiting for us poor ignorant
ops to "get with it" and "come to the realization" of just how vital and
interesting this all is and SHOULD BE to us...

Well I am one which does not and cannot appreciate it... if the fault
lies with me and my interests and views--so be it...

If I am wrong and all these young guys just can't wait to get a license
and startup a QSO so they hear these old guys fart and rant--well, that
is just a short coming of mine--and, those young dynamic guys who are
running the world right now and providing new ideas, designs and methods
are probably on the way here right now to find the old farts.... I'll
just sit here and wait for 'em, I need a change... maybe I can chat
with one or two of 'em--if they can quit their hero worship of you guys
long enough... grin

Dayum "John", YEAH, absolutely, boycott RRAP, refuse to post again
until the thirtysometings roll in!

All in favor say aye . . ?



John

wrote in message
oups.com...

Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:


. . . The ham was Gene Reynolds W3EAN
who went out of his way to answer my unending stream of questions
that
night. I probably drove him nuts but I think he enjoyed it. There
was
no turning back after that night, I was gonna become a ham.

I enjoyed the story, Brian.

I've enjoyed the whole trip Michael.

But I gotta break in here. What you have
described is the real reason that people become hams. You were bitten
by
the bug, and it sounds like no one was going to stop you from
becoming one.

Yessir that's about right certainly in my case.

I too was hooked early in life, although it took a long time to
finally
get my ticket. I'm just P****d that I didn't get it years earlier.

Sorry about the previous rant but once in awhile somebody around here
bumps my babble button and there I go again . . You bumped the
bloomin'
button again Coslo. Rant Mode = ON

I didn't exactly leap toward the FCC office to take the test either,
far from it. One problem being that I had a number of other interests
too like photography, Boy Scouts, model railroading and GIRLS. They
all
absobred my time and what little money I could scrounge via paper
routes and such.

While my folks cheerfully funded Scouting they did not fund any of my
other hot buttons. Probably because they knew I'd drive them broke if
they did. They did encourage my pursuit of ham radio though, I guess
they thought it had educatinal value and it kept me off the streets
and
outta trouble. The latter didn't work very well though.

I never had an Elmer, I had no idea how to connect with a ham club
when
I was 10-12 so I scrounged books and magazines about ham radio and
tuned the bands with my junk radios. When I finally got to high school
I found a bunch of hams and and "the rest is history". Took me about
five years to go from my encounter with W3EAN to passing the Novice
test and getting on the air with it.

Which was in a much different regime than we have today. The Novice
license was a stick and carrot ticket with the emphasis on the stick.
We had 365 days from the date the license was issued to upgrade to a
13WPM General or get booted out of ham radio. Of the dozens of local
Novices I knew I don't recall of any who failed to upgrade or bitched
about the code tests.

I think I'm very typical of the kids who got into the hobby back then
and there were great heaps of us. The adults who took up ham radio
back
then were a different story, they had the money and they had control
of
their lives which us kids did not have. Net result today is that us
kids from back then are obviously the grouchy old farts of today and
almost universally have disdain to one degree or another for the
current state of affairs in the giveaway requirements for licensing.

It's not that we're mentally frozen in time at all, that's 100% BS.
It's because we've been there and done it all and we know what works
and what does not given the fact that except for the current licensing
nonsense ham radio hasn't changed nearly as much as many would try to
have us believe. Fuhgeddit, we see right thru it.

Im convinced that events in the future will prove us right. Today we
have a "bloat the numbers at any cost" game which is doomed to
backfire
eventually. The big question is how badly it will backfire and how
much
damage will have been be done before it happens. The history of this
country over last couple decades is chock full of eamples of backing
away from failed giveaways. It's only a matter of time until ham radio
gets it's turn.

Whew: Got that one out of my system too. Thanks Mike.

The idea of "recruiting" people into the ARS is likely never going to
work - at least as far as snagging people that are thinking about a
hobby, but don't know what to pick up.

I agree right down the line. You can't "recruit" anybody into a hobby
unless some kernel of interest already exists in the mind of the
"target" and even then it's a dicey proposition in most cases. It's
like trying to herd cats, doesn't work. The best we can do is toss out
PR to raise the awareness of ham radio and let the chips fall where
they might. The League is in the right direction in this respect.

If you wanna be a Ham - you *know* it.

Yupper but how one gets there varies hugely to the point where all
670,000 of us have probably taken 300,000 different routes. Compare
the
way Dee got into the hobby vs. my route. How different can they get?!


A local oldster was inquiring as to when his license expired, because
he couldn't find his F.C.C. Wallpaper. We help him figure it out. We
need to keep the geezers on the air. I love talking to them. I hope
someone is looking out for me when I'm 91!

They're all treasures we have a responsibilty to protect. Often from
themselves. Heh.

- Mike KB3EIA -

w3rv

Phil:

My gawd, the bands are crawling with them, there must be heavy
congestion somewhere with 'em all trying to communicate... I think my
radio has stopped working--can't find a one--heck, perhaps some
chauvinist engineer designed this piece of junk and it would pass female
voices though the audio stages--SOMETHING IS WRONG!!!

John

"Phil Kane" wrote in message
ganews.com...
On 15 Jun 2005 17:01:18 -0700, wrote:

In all my 43 years in engineering I've met a grand total of four woman
engineers, two MEs, one EE and a Chem E.

In my 50 years in engineering I've =dated= more women engineers than
you seem to have met, was engaged to one (nuclear engineer) and
married another (EE). In my wife's office alone there are more than
4 =PEs= on her floor, including the chief of the structural
engineering
section (imagine that, a lady tower engineer). Had my wife gone
through the paperwork as she talked about twenty years ago she, too,
would have been a PE.

Our contesting club alone has
three female members, an old girlfriend is a ham and I met W3CUL. Out
of Lord only knows how many engineers and hams I've met over the
years.

In our club, the largest radio club in the state if not in the
Pacific Northwest, about 1/3 of the hams are women, and of them,
about half are active on the air in some fashion or other.

--
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane

From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon