On 29 Jun 2005 16:10:55 -0700, wrote:

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 02:34:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 19:12:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 09:59:04 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 18:08:19 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 11:19:31 -0700, wrote:
snip

Why can't you just clearly and plainly state what you
suggest that I do?

I have - many, many times.

You just keep writing that I must decide. But
you do not state concrete actions that the
decision will produce.

Option 1 or Option 2.

Those are not concrete actions.

To, Sir, they are quite obviously not.

They are choices!

Decision is a concrete action.

In this case, your decision.

Your action.

You must decide!
You must decide.
You must.

You sound like the chimes of Big Ben.

When text is displayed upon a monitor, or uopn a page, does it make a sound?

Most assuredly not.

Tinnitus, perhaps?

You missed the reference completely, then.

You cannot answer a question with a question.

Focus.


What *do* you suggest? Just speak plainly rather than
answering a question with another question, or a zinger.

What's your suggestion?

The way I see it, you have two options:

1. Continue to be suckered in to foolish arguments.
2. Do not continue to be suckered in to foolish arguments.

OK so far.

Glad to hear it!

So far, so good.

Option 1 is expensive - you become a possession of those who goad you
in to responding. A puppet, as it were, dancing at the end of someone's strings....

That's called trolling. You're saying I should not respond to Len's
trolls. In other words, you suggest that I shut up. But you can't bring
yourself to write clearly and plainly, choosing to gussy up your words
with psychobabble.

What you fail to notice is that Len dances at the ends of others'
strings far more. And that while I write the truth, he inserts mistakes
(intentional or otherwise) to bait others into responding.

Look at the number of posts I have made in this thread. Or other
threads. Compare to the number made in response to me.

There's also the organ grinder's red-hatted monkey who will do almost
anything for attention. Including misquotes of others.

Now you'll say that's not the point. And perhaps in your fantasy, it
isn't.

Please try to stay focussed.

The word is spelled "focused".

....but again, the obsessive-compulsive need to be 'always correct'
rears it's ugly head.

Focus.


Everything is not about Len.

That is correct!

There is hope!


Does he possess you so completely that your world revolves
around him?

No one "possesses" me, Leo.

Heh heh heh......you have been a puppet for a long time.

Decide!


Break free.

Decide.

Why?

You must.


That's your spin on it - does not address what actions you
suggest *I* take.

That is your current reality.

That's your soft-science psychobabble spin, then. ;-)

Not at all.

I have decided that it is. Simple as A, B and C

Not at all.

Think harder.

Use your education.

And focus.

There are only two choices available to you.

Says who?

There are two.


A and B. Option 1 - or Option 2.

There is no C.

There's always a C.

Not in a two variable equation.

Such as this.

Owned. Or Free.

Wimp. Or Strong.

Dit. Or Dah. (mandatory radio content hi hi)


Option 2 is much more difficult than Option 1

For you, maybe.

Not at all.

- it requires the
intelligence to recognize a legitimate argument from bait,
and
considerable inner strength to resist the drive to respond,
even when you know you are in the right.

"resist the drive to respond, even when you know you are in the right"
= shut up.

That is quite an oversimplification, Jim.

How, Leo?

This has been explained enough times already.

Do your homework!


If I respond to Len in any way, you say I have taken Option 1.
Therefore the only way to take Option 2 is for me to shut up.

Not true.


All your blathering psychobabble comes down to your trying to tell me
to shut up without using those words.

Not true.

Are you hoping that someone will tell you to shut up?

Why?


Resisting the temptation to be suckered in to responding to a
post
designed with the intent of making you jump would require the
discipline of refusing to respond, and the wisdom to recognize the need..

Which is what I do, most of the time. Just not all of the time. To
satisfy your criteria for Option 2, I'd have to pretty much stop
posting here.

Are you suggesting that you cannot post without responding to trolls?

If your statement is true - why do you stay?

Are you nothing more than bait?

Are your posts simply strings of rants assembled at the pleasure of
others?

You cannot post anything at all of substance without joining in your
own torment?

What drives this sort of behaviour?


In fact, it seems to me that perhaps *you* are posting here with the
intent of making me "jump"....

Do you have that discipline, Jim? The wisdom?

Sure. Do you?

Prove it, Jim - show us all.

There is no evidence available to support your claim to date.

Demonstration, please.

Show us what you've got!


Can you resist the temptation to respond? Do you possess the
inner strength?

Not so far.

Not in the past - but perhaps in future. Perhaps today!

Decide - Owned or Free.

Polish - or Avoid.

I'm not Polish.

You are polishing. Turds.


That's what you're telling me to do.

You could just be clear about it. But that's not your way.

It cannot be simplified any further, Jim.

Sure it can: the two words "shut up"

Do you feel that this is your only logical option, then?

Is there no other way?


Owned - or Free.

Speak out - or Shut Up.

That's what it means.

Be trolled - or not.

That's what it means.


Decide.


You're begging the question, Leo.

I am begging the answer.

Decide!

This is your potential future reality.

Many Happy Returns

Focus, Jim.

You really should get out more, Leo.

Focus.


Option 1. Or Option 2.

Continue - or Change.


So what do you suggest *I* do?

Decide!

Actions, Leo.

Um - decision is an action.

Decide!

Owned or free.

Yet you quote Caine and the stuff about a man not being silent.

(Forgetting for a moment that Caine was a make-believe person
in a TV
show rife with pseudo-wise Eastern philosophical sayings...)

That quote did not apply to your situation.

Why not?

You can read, correct? Such as the next paragraph, which contains the
answer:

It referenced 'wrong' in more of a human sense - i.e. someone
doing
'wrong' to others.

Intentional misstatement does wrong to others.

Intentional misstatement is a device to get you arguing. The wrong
done to you in these cases is done by you. The fact that it is
'intentional' indicates this - the facts are immaterial - the medium
itself is the message.

You are your own enemy in these battles.


Intervening - i.e. 'correcting the wrong', was to
stop the actions of the perpetrator of said wrong, thereby protecting
the perpetrator (bu getting suckered every time) and the victim (of
the resultant bashing). Caine could not help you - he would be too
confused.

What was Caine's callsign?

Oh oh. The need to be right can be a painful master, Jim.

The series "Kung Fu" was set in the American Southwest in the 1870s.

Before radio was invented.

Wow! That's one five star education yer packin there, podner......yee
haw!

Some day....you might want to try to learn how to use Google too - so
you can do your homework before you post!

Instead of having to have others clean up after you. Frequently.

http://www.kungfu-guide.com/overview.html


Your current situation requires a different metaphor:

"A man walking along discovers a turd in the middle of his
path. What should he do?

If he is wise, he would step around it and go along his way. But, if
he should pick it up and begin polishing it, in the expectation that
it would somehow gain value as a result of his effort, he would be
quite foolish indeed."


So you're saying that the posts of Len and some others here are turds.

I think you have a point there!

Hope springs anew!

That's why the polishing isn't going too well sometimes.

Then again - some of your posts here are -well- just a tad stinky as
well.

Like the German history lesson that you tried to give me earlier in
this thread.

That was a turd.

I chose not to polish it.

One cannot polish a turd.


Polish - or Avoid.

Option 1 - or Option 2.

You must decide!


That's your spin.

That's your opinion.

Fact.

Owned or free - Decide!


Owned - or free.

You must decide.

Why?

You must.

Says who?

There is no option.

There's always an option.

And you have only two.

Option 1.

and Option 2.

SOS - or change.


If you continue on the current path, then you have chosen
Option 1.

Things continue as they are.

You remain owned.

If you elect to change, then you have chosen Option 2.

You become free.

You must decide!

Speak - or shut up.

Do you feel that this is the only way that you could handle the
situation?

Do you believe that you could do it?


That's the choice you give me.

That's the choice you gave you.


The path you choose will be entirely up to you.

So there *is* a choice!

There is always a choice.

Odd to hear from someone who told me I could not stop
myself.

Hopefully I was incorrect.

Decide!

Yours to make if your are able to do so,

Ah - now there's a condition!

Which only you can overcome.

You want me to shut up. That is clear. You dress it up in fancy
terms but that's what it comes down to.

Do you possess the discipline which you will require in order
to avoid
responding to each and every taunt and tease posted to annoy
you?

I already have demonstrated that, Leo. Do you see me responding to
"each and every taunt and tease"?

Yup.

You haven't missed a turd yet.


Yes or no?

Yup.


Do you possess the wisdom to see things as they are, and
recognize a need for change?

You mean to shut up?

Do you equate that with wisdom?

Would that make you appear more wise?

"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant, than to open your
mouth and remove all doubt."

Mark Twain, I believe.

Is this the philosophy that you are leaning towards?


I see little evidence so far - but there is hope.

Look within. Think.

And Decide!

You sure are fixated on that stuff, Leo.

Thinking is good for you. So is introsspection. And decision.

Try it and see!


--

Psychotics build castles in the air
Neurotics live in them
Shrinks collect the rent
-
Decide!

You must decide!

Why?

You must.

No, I don't.

There is no choice. Continue - or Change.

You must decide!

I've decided you want to be the landlord.

Great! You are capable of decision!

Try to apply that to the choice before you.

Fool. Or Savant.

Decide.

Free For All.

Choose wisely!

Wise by whose standards?

We'll all see the answer to that one soon enough - when you
decide!

How will you know what is decided?

That is the simplest task of all.

Should you choose Option 2, it will be immediately apparent to all.

Translation: shut up!

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em......


Should you continue down the current path, then you have chosen to
remail with Option 1. Equally apparent to all.

You must decide!

Option 1 - Speak out against incorrect information (even though it's
probably a troll)

Correct.


Option 2 - Shut up

Oversimplification, as discussed above.

How is it an oversimplification? How else would Option 2 be chosen?
What other evidence would convince you that I chose Option 2?

Simple - we wouldn't have Jim saying "You're Wrong" over and over and
over again in multiple threads. Just a few times. In legitimate
discussions.

Would you be able to tell? Or has it been too long?


How would such a choice be demonstrated in concrete, practical terms?

Hmmm - you read the two options, right?

Just can't make yourself spell them out, I see.

That would require Leo to be responsible..

That would relieve you of your requirement to think.

I'm simply asking for a definite criteria. You won't provide it,
because you know that Option 2 = shut up

Is there a way I could choose Option 2 and not shut up? If so, the two
are not the same. If not, the two are essentially the same thing.

You'll need to think just a bit harder, Jim......you aren't quite
there yet! Use that brain!

The options have been spelled out quite clearly above.

Option 1. Status Quo. Owned.

= Speak out against incorrect information

Correct.

So far so good.

This is where you are at right now.

So far, not good.



And Option 2. Change. Free.

= Shut up

Oversimplification, as discussed above.

What other alternative exists, Leo? The opposite of

"Speak out against incorrect information"

is

"Do not speak out against incorrect information"

You feel that you must respond to every challenge in a thread? You
are incapable of making your point and then ignoring the inevitable
rehashing over and over again? (the trolling part?)

Didn't you say that you had the discipline and the wisdom a while back
in this thread?

Where is it, then? Perhaps you have it, but cannot apply it?

Where'd you put them? In a drawer somewhere with your socks?

Go get 'em - and let's see 'em in action!

What actions do you suggest?

Decide! Only you can make this decision - you're on your own
now.

You have not offered the requested information. Seems to me that
when you speak of "abuse" and "control" and "goading", you're
really talking about yourself, not Len.

Decide!

Perhaps you are talking about yourself *and* Len.

Focus. Everything is not about Len.

Of course not. This part is about your unwillingness to be honest.

Are you hoping that someone will tell you to shut up?

Why?

Do you need that for some reason?

Would it fulfil a need?

Do you need to fight?

Suppose you are correct, and Len's purpose is to

Focus. Everything is not about Len.

And try to start what you finish.



Or perhaps you and he are one and the same.

Not at all!

If you *were*, that's how you'd respond.
If you *weren't*, that's how you'd respond.

Hmmm - now that's a Masters - level analysis of the issue.

Thanks for narrowing this one down for us, Jim!

You soft-science types fall apart when concrete reality comes along

Yup - that was some real handy analysis there, Jim. You reduced the
equation right down to the least common denominator, and proved beyond
the shadow of a doubt that I may be...or may not be.

Nice work!



Good luck!

Be seeing you.

Um - shouldn't that be BCNU?

That means the same thing....it's telegraph stuff!


No. You don't get the reference, I see. Pity.

I ignored it. This is a serious matter.

To whom?

You. It's your future!

Not TV.

And hold on to that pity - you may well be in need of it.

When you decide.


73 de Jim, N2EY

44, Leo

"I am not a number! I am a free man"

Well, no.

At the moment, you are at a crossroads.

To be free, you must decide.

Status quo - or change.

Speak out - or shut up.

Natter - or discuss.

Rag on - or ragchew.

Sucker - or Smart.

Owned. Or Free.

You Decide.

44, Leo

Who is #1?

You sure don't know your "92 Code" too well, either...maybe you could
brush up on that after...

....you Decide.

44, Leo

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

So here goes:

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 16:10:55 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 02:34:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 19:12:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 09:59:04 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 18:08:19 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 11:19:31 -0700, wrote:
You must decide!
You must decide.
You must.

You sound like the chimes of Big Ben.

You missed the reference completely, then.

You cannot answer a question with a question.

I didn't!

Heh heh heh......you have been a puppet for a long time.

Some would say since Arrival

Decide!
Break free.
Decide.

Why?

You must.

Sounds like a Hammer pounding Into an Anvil

That's your spin on it - does not address what actions you
suggest *I* take.

That is your current reality.

That's your soft-science psychobabble spin, then. ;-)

Not at all.

I have decided that it is. Simple as A, B and C


There are only two choices available to you.

Says who?

There are two.

A and B. Option 1 - or Option 2.

There is no C.

There's always a C.

Not in a two variable equation.

Such as this.

Do you want me to deny the truth just to permit Living in Harmony?

Owned. Or Free.

Wimp. Or Strong.

Dit. Or Dah. (mandatory radio content hi hi)

Sounds like an order from The General..
If I respond to Len in any way, you say I have taken Option 1.
Therefore the only way to take Option 2 is for me to shut up.

Not true.

That's what it all boils down to.

All your blathering psychobabble comes down to your trying to tell me to shut up without using those words.

Not true.

Are you hoping that someone will tell you to shut up?

No.

Why?

Polish - or Avoid.

I'm not Polish.

You are polishing. Turds.

Not me!


That's what you're telling me to do.

You could just be clear about it. But that's not your way.

It cannot be simplified any further, Jim.

Sure it can: the two words "shut up"

Do you feel that this is your only logical option, then?

Is there no other way?


Owned - or Free.

Speak out - or Shut Up.

That's what it means.

Be trolled - or not.

That's what it means.

How is one different from the other?


The series "Kung Fu" was set in the American Southwest in the 1870s.

Before radio was invented.

But not before callsigns were invented!

Wow! That's one five star education yer packin there,
podner......yee haw!

Do you think callsigns were invented for radio? Think again.

Your current situation requires a different metaphor:

"A man walking along discovers a turd in the middle of his
path. What should he do?

If he is wise, he would step around it and go along his
way. But, if
he should pick it up and begin polishing it, in the
expectation that
it would somehow gain value as a result of his effort, he
would be quite foolish indeed."

Agreed!

He could also avoid the hazard, and point it out to others so
they do not trod in it.

So you're saying that the posts of Len and some others here
are turds.

I think you have a point there!

Hope springs anew!

That's why the polishing isn't going too well sometimes.

So you agree! Excellent!

Now let us consider.....

If your description of Len's posts (the product) is accurate, what does
that make the producer of said product?

That pretty much sums it up, I think.

--

Psychotics build castles in the air
Neurotics live in them
Shrinks collect the rent
-

wrote:

Do you want me to deny the truth just to permit Living in Harmony?

Holy Moly!

Jim used to alter Kim's post to live in Harmony?

Jim used to insult Len just to live in harmony?

Jim said that a Morse Code Exam would be a barrier to Morse Code use
just to live in harmony?

Jim very very surprising individual.

On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

You still haven't, actually - 2/3 of the original post is missing....

73, Leo


So here goes:

Leo wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 16:10:55 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 29 Jun 2005 02:34:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 19:12:17 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 27 Jun 2005 09:59:04 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 18:08:19 -0700, wrote:
Leo wrote:
On 26 Jun 2005 11:19:31 -0700, wrote:
You must decide!
You must decide.
You must.

You sound like the chimes of Big Ben.

You missed the reference completely, then.

You cannot answer a question with a question.

I didn't!

Heh heh heh......you have been a puppet for a long time.

Some would say since Arrival

Decide!
Break free.
Decide.

Why?

You must.

Sounds like a Hammer pounding Into an Anvil

That's your spin on it - does not address what actions you
suggest *I* take.

That is your current reality.

That's your soft-science psychobabble spin, then. ;-)

Not at all.

I have decided that it is. Simple as A, B and C


There are only two choices available to you.

Says who?

There are two.

A and B. Option 1 - or Option 2.

There is no C.

There's always a C.

Not in a two variable equation.

Such as this.

Do you want me to deny the truth just to permit Living in Harmony?

Owned. Or Free.

Wimp. Or Strong.

Dit. Or Dah. (mandatory radio content hi hi)

Sounds like an order from The General..
If I respond to Len in any way, you say I have taken Option 1.
Therefore the only way to take Option 2 is for me to shut up.

Not true.

That's what it all boils down to.

All your blathering psychobabble comes down to your trying to tell me to shut up without using those words.

Not true.

Are you hoping that someone will tell you to shut up?

No.

Why?

Polish - or Avoid.

I'm not Polish.

You are polishing. Turds.

Not me!


That's what you're telling me to do.

You could just be clear about it. But that's not your way.

It cannot be simplified any further, Jim.

Sure it can: the two words "shut up"

Do you feel that this is your only logical option, then?

Is there no other way?


Owned - or Free.

Speak out - or Shut Up.

That's what it means.

Be trolled - or not.

That's what it means.

How is one different from the other?


The series "Kung Fu" was set in the American Southwest in the 1870s.

Before radio was invented.

But not before callsigns were invented!

Wow! That's one five star education yer packin there,
podner......yee haw!

Do you think callsigns were invented for radio? Think again.

Your current situation requires a different metaphor:

"A man walking along discovers a turd in the middle of his
path. What should he do?

If he is wise, he would step around it and go along his
way. But, if
he should pick it up and begin polishing it, in the
expectation that
it would somehow gain value as a result of his effort, he
would be quite foolish indeed."

Agreed!

He could also avoid the hazard, and point it out to others so
they do not trod in it.

So you're saying that the posts of Len and some others here
are turds.

I think you have a point there!

Hope springs anew!

That's why the polishing isn't going too well sometimes.

So you agree! Excellent!

Now let us consider.....

If your description of Len's posts (the product) is accurate, what does
that make the producer of said product?

That pretty much sums it up, I think.

--

Psychotics build castles in the air
Neurotics live in them
Shrinks collect the rent
-


????

Where'd the rest of it go?

Leo wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

You still haven't, actually - 2/3 of the original post is missing....

73, Leo

Jim ran the entire text through his DaVinci Code Reader. The part
snipped spelled out K5TIT, so he very well couldn't have quoted it.
Rest assured that the LaLeche reLay League has been informed.

From: "b.b." on Thurs 7 Jul 2005 15:28


Leo wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

You still haven't, actually - 2/3 of the original post is missing....

73, Leo

Jim ran the entire text through his DaVinci Code Reader. The part
snipped spelled out K5TIT, so he very well couldn't have quoted it.

Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of women? gasp

I wonder if all those "children he parented" (implied) were
by Immaculate Conception?

Rest assured that the LaLeche reLay League has been informed.

Ah! The organization in Newington, the one with the "milk
of ham-an kindness?" :-)

"Polish, polish, polish he goes, and where he stops, nobody
knows..." with some hat tips to Major Bowes' Amateur Hour

bit bit

wrote:
From: "b.b." on Thurs 7 Jul 2005 15:28


Leo wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

You still haven't, actually - 2/3 of the original post is missing....

73, Leo

Jim ran the entire text through his DaVinci Code Reader. The part
snipped spelled out K5TIT, so he very well couldn't have quoted it.

Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of women? gasp

I think his DaVinci Code reader malfunctioned.

I wonder if all those "children he parented" (implied) were
by Immaculate Conception?

I think that Jim was bottle fed.

Rest assured that the LaLeche reLay League has been informed.

Ah! The organization in Newington, the one with the "milk
of ham-an kindness?" :-)

"Polish, polish, polish he goes, and where he stops, nobody
knows..." with some hat tips to Major Bowes' Amateur Hour

bit bit


When the Mad LaLeche reLay League Mothers discover all of the K5TIT
haters in here...

b.b. wrote:
wrote:
From: "b.b." on Thurs 7 Jul 2005 15:28


Leo wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

You still haven't, actually - 2/3 of the original post is missing....

73, Leo

Jim ran the entire text through his DaVinci Code Reader. The part
snipped spelled out K5TIT, so he very well couldn't have quoted it.

Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of women? gasp

I think his DaVinci Code reader malfunctioned.

I wonder if all those "children he parented" (implied) were
by Immaculate Conception?

I think that Jim was bottle fed.

Rest assured that the LaLeche reLay League has been informed.

Ah! The organization in Newington, the one with the "milk
of ham-an kindness?" :-)

"Polish, polish, polish he goes, and where he stops, nobody
knows..." with some hat tips to Major Bowes' Amateur Hour

bit bit


break


When the Mad LaLeche reLay League Mothers discover all of the K5TIT
haters in here...

oh that could be painfull to watch

From: b.b. on Jul 9, 1:04 pm

wrote:
From: "b.b." on Thurs 7 Jul 2005 15:28
Leo wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

Jim ran the entire text through his DaVinci Code Reader. The part
snipped spelled out K5TIT, so he very well couldn't have quoted it.

Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of women? gasp

I think his DaVinci Code reader malfunctioned.

Well, that's what he gets for spending less than $100 and
designing it with vacuum tubes in the 1990s...


I wonder if all those "children he parented" (implied) were
by Immaculate Conception?

I think that Jim was bottle fed.

That would explain much! :-)

bit bit

b.b. wrote:
wrote:
From: "b.b." on Thurs 7 Jul 2005 15:28


Leo wrote:
On 5 Jul 2005 17:44:07 -0700, wrote:

I thought I'd answered this one, but apparently not.

You still haven't, actually - 2/3 of the original post is missing....

73, Leo

Jim ran the entire text through his DaVinci Code Reader. The part
snipped spelled out K5TIT, so he very well couldn't have quoted it.

Mighty Macho Morsemen will have none of women? gasp

I think his DaVinci Code reader malfunctioned.

I wonder if all those "children he parented" (implied) were
by Immaculate Conception?

I think that Jim was bottle fed.


So what's wrong with being fed bottles of Bud?


Rest assured that the LaLeche reLay League has been informed.

Ah! The organization in Newington, the one with the "milk
of ham-an kindness?" :-)

"Polish, polish, polish he goes, and where he stops, nobody
knows..." with some hat tips to Major Bowes' Amateur Hour

bit bit


When the Mad LaLeche reLay League Mothers discover all of the K5TIT
haters in here...