Jim,

Nothing that might happen as aresult of this NPRM will
involve changing the written tests.

This NPRM as currently put forth ONLY ends Element 1,
the code test.

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

(SNIP of latest statistics analysis on comments)

Hello, Len
I personally am not concerned about code/no code.
My problem is how easy do
they wish to make the multiple guess test. Frankly, folks that don't have
to work for something seldom appreciate it. Didn't they find that out
with
welfare?

Then again, I might be wrong.

If you gave away the licenses with no test at all (no test
international?),
a lot of folks might well say "no" and a lot of the rest wouldn't
appreciate
it anyways.

Just my humble opinion.

73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm

wrote in message

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

snip


I personally am not concerned about code/no code. My problem is how easy do
they wish to make the multiple guess test.

NPRM 05-143 is concerned about elimination/retention of the
morse code test for amateur radio licensing.

If you have a bitch, moan, cuss-word, or whatever about the
written test questions, you just contact the VEC Question Pool
Committee. The VEC QPC make up ALL the written test questions
and answers. FCC no longer has a hand in that, they only approve
(or disapprove) the Pool.

Frankly, folks that don't have
to work for something seldom appreciate it.

I personally am not concerned about some "work ethic" or "moral
virtue" bullsnit or its holier-than-thou sounding phrases.

I've WORKED for my living since graduating high school. Spare
me some of that folksy filosophizing floobydust, okay?

Didn't they find that out with welfare?

You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very well,
didn't it?

Then again, I might be wrong.

No, the "incentive plan" worked very well for the welfare of
the morsemen. They got real big and important, looked down
their noses at the "mundane" and felt good. Made the "class
distinction" thing into a fine art.

But, it kind of went sour with R&O 99-412, didn't it? FCC made
code test rates 5 WPM maximum and cut the number of license
classes in half! My, my, what a calamity to the super-special
ultra-extra-morsemen!

If you gave away the licenses with no test at all (no test international?),
a lot of folks might well say "no" and a lot of the rest wouldn't appreciate
it anyways.

Gosh, REALLY? Wow, gee-whilikers, Captain Code, is that true?

Just my humble opinion.

Hardly. Hardly "unbiased" either. :-)

If you don't like what I publish in this "scorecard," then you
welcome to go read all 1967 comments on WT Docket 05-235 that have
arrived by midnight EDT on 30 August 2005. Do your own stats.
It's easy. Anyone can do it. Just takes a little work. :-)

Jim Hampton wrote:

I personally am not concerned about code/no code.

Hello Jim, (from another Jim who used to live in
Wayne County).

Concerned or not, it seems FCC *really* wants to
dump Element 1. That's no surprise at all, given
the past 25-30 years or so.

My problem is how easy do
they wish to make the multiple guess test.

A key factor is which "they" you mean.

Several of the proposals asked for a new beginner
license. The scariest of those was the NCVEC idea,
which was derived from a paper titled "Amateur
Radio in the 21st Century". I wrote a rebuttal to
that paper which I sent to the authors, and also
posted here. Kinda long but it's detailed. You can
skip through the code test discussion and focus on
the written-test stuff, which says they think the
Tech is too hard for newcomers!

Other proposals (like the FISTS proposal) detail
how the written tests could be improved.

But FCC specifically denied all proposed changes
to the written exam structure and methods, and the
number of license classes in the NPRM. So the
writtens won't change much one way or the other.

Frankly, folks that don't have
to work for something seldom appreciate it.

Yup. It's called "investment", in the general
sense, not just money.

Didn't they find that out with welfare?

"Welfare" takes a lot of forms - corporate,
lifestyle, geographic, etc.

Of course if a behavior is rewarded, you tend to
get more of it.

Then again, I might be wrong.

Not really.

If you gave away the licenses with no test at all (no test
international?),
a lot of folks might well say "no" and a lot of the rest
wouldn't appreciate
it anyways.

FCC did that with a service called 'cb'. Look what happened.

Of course some folks will say that cb became a mess because
of overcrowding and/or lack of enforcement. IOW, they blame
everyone other than those actually breaking the rules.

--

But you are correct to be concerned. Back in 2000, when FCC
dropped all code testing except Element 1, they also reduced
the number and size of the written tests. The written test
reduction was dramatic, particularly for Technician and Extra.

Just watch. FCC will probably dump Element 1 regardless of
what the comment total works out to be in the end. They ignored
majority opinion in 2000 on how many code test speeds there should be,
and there's no requirement that FCC follow majority opinion on
anything.

I've predicted before that when Element 1 goes you'll see a flurry of
upgrades and some short-term growth - but no big
technological changes, nor sustained increases in the number
of hams.

Once all that settles down, you'll see renewed attacks on the *written*
tests from some folks, claiming the written tests
are obsolete, outmoded, too hard, unfair to handicapped people, etc.

Practically all of the objections to the code tests can be
modified for use against the writtens. In fact they have been -
read the "21st Century" paper.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Today's Scorecard in the NCTA v. PCTA Amateur NPRM Opinions!

30 Aug 05, WT Docket 05-235 Comments on Test Element 1
Elimination/Retention a

Total 1968

Indeterminate/duplicates (note 1) 97

Unambiguously Against NPRM (note 2) 542 28.97%
Unambiguously For NPRM (note 3) 1054 56.33%
Code test ONLY for Extras (note 4) 275 14.70%

Notes:

1. Includes duplicate postings from same individual, "joke"
or "test" entries which do not have a valid address, or
polemicizing a personal pet peeve which has nothing to
do with the NPRM, individuals not understanding the
scope and purpose of the NPRM, one foreign citizen
submission, and six who were commenting on another
matter having nothing to do with amateur radio regulations.

2. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly AGAINST
the NPRM and against dropping any code testing.

3. Includes only those who are whole-heartedly FOR the
NPRM and the abolition of the morse code test.

4. These are "in-betweeners" who wish to retain the code
test for the "highest" class (Extra) but will accept
eliminating the code test for other classes.

Percentage figures are calculated against the Total less
the number of Indeterminate entries. For all up to
being received by 30 Aug 05 that would be 1871.

This is the last daily posting IN THIS FORMAT. With the notice
of NPRM 05-143 finally appearing in the Federal Register and
the end of Comment period established as 31 October 2005, end
of Replies to Comments on 14 November 2005, and NO statement
on whether or not the previous 1968 Comments are effective for
Commission R&O decisions, the FORMAT will change. There will
be "total" Comments (and percentages) columns and "new"
Comments (and percentages) filed from 31 August onward.

Stay tuned...the future of U.S. amateur radio is being made,
like it or not.

wrote:
From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm


wrote in message

Didn't they find that out with welfare?


You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very well,
didn't it?

You seem to have the idea of welfare backward, Len, and you've
introduced a factual error. There was never a class of license under
Incentive Licensing, which provided an upgrade for merely passing a
morse exam. To go from the General to Advanced, one passed only a
theory exam. To step up from the Advanced to the Amateur Extra, one
passed a theory exam and a higher speed morse exam.

In a welfare system, you get something for doing nothing. You stick
your hand out and someone gives you something.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm


wrote in message

Didn't they find that out with welfare?


You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very well,
didn't it?

You seem to have the idea of welfare backward, Len, and you've
introduced a factual error. There was never a class of license under
Incentive Licensing, which provided an upgrade for merely passing a
morse exam. To go from the General to Advanced, one passed only a
theory exam. To step up from the Advanced to the Amateur Extra, one
passed a theory exam and a higher speed morse exam.

BUZZZ wrong answer Dave there was such a class. the Tech Plus class and
it exists today like the advanced and Novice classes

get your facts straight before you start casting stones


Siting to await the evasions that are likely to follow catching another
of MMM in another error of fact

In a welfare system, you get something for doing nothing. You stick
your hand out and someone gives you something.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm

wrote in message

Didn't they find that out with welfare?

You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the
high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very
well, didn't it?

You seem to have the idea of welfare backward, Len, and you've
introduced a factual error.

uh-oh, now you've done it, Dave. You pointed out both faulty
reasoning and a factual error in one of Len's postings here.

There was never a class of license
under
Incentive Licensing, which provided an upgrade for merely
passing a
morse exam. To go from the General to Advanced, one passed
only a
theory exam. To step up from the Advanced to the Amateur
Extra, one
passed a theory exam and a higher speed morse exam.

Not only that, but after 1990 the 13 and 20 wpm Morse Code
tests could be avoided by getting a waiver. All it took was
a letter from any doctor.

The Extra and Advanced license classes have existed since 1951,
even though the changes commonly known as "incentive licensing"
did not go into effect until the late 1960s.

Before the restructuring of 1951, the old "ABC" license system
offered had one code test - and two written tests. Upgrading
to Class A required only a written test.

As for how well it worked, well, the number of Amateur Extras grew from
about 5000 in 1968 to over 75,000 in 2000. The number of Advanceds grew
from less than 40,000 to over 100,000 in the same time period. And the
total number of US amateurs grew
from about 260,000 to about 675,000 in the same time period.

In a welfare system, you get something for doing nothing.
You stick your hand out and someone gives you something.

You mean like the proposals by ARRL and NCI and NCVEC to
give automatic upgrades without any more tests?


73 de Jim, N2EY

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm


wrote in message

Didn't they find that out with welfare?


You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very well,
didn't it?

You seem to have the idea of welfare backward, Len, and you've
introduced a factual error. There was never a class of license under
Incentive Licensing, which provided an upgrade for merely passing a
morse exam.

Factual error? It was called the Tech-Plus. And before you go calling
me a liar, I'll correct myself and say, "Technician-Plus."

I love the way Dave and Jim dismiss the existance of whole license
class

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm


wrote in message

Didn't they find that out with welfare?


You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very well,
didn't it?

You seem to have the idea of welfare backward, Len, and you've
introduced a factual error. There was never a class of license under
Incentive Licensing, which provided an upgrade for merely passing a
morse exam.

Factual error? It was called the Tech-Plus. And before you go calling
me a liar, I'll correct myself and say, "Technician-Plus."

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:

wrote:

From: Jim Hampton on Aug 30, 6:12 pm



wrote in message

Didn't they find that out with welfare?


You mean the WELFARE system that rewarded the high-rate morsemen
with fancier titles and better privileges, such as in the
"incentive plan" licensing system? Yes. It worked very well,
didn't it?

You seem to have the idea of welfare backward, Len, and you've
introduced a factual error. There was never a class of license under
Incentive Licensing, which provided an upgrade for merely passing a
morse exam.


Factual error? It was called the Tech-Plus. And before you go calling
me a liar, I'll correct myself and say, "Technician-Plus."

The Tech-Plus came into existence long, long after the implementation of
Incentive Licensing.

Dave K8MN