To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

there may be more aliens in LA than hams

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

90% or more like 80% ? what you caling almost all

myself about I guess about 80%


4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

Personaly I believe they do not realize it

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

I truely hope you are right Sir I turely do


7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

I'd love to call you a liar on that one


8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

AOF:

I checked out Art Bell's site, but couldn't get any figures on how many
"space aliens" are residing in California, I would have loved to have made
a comparison to their numbers with amateurs, as a ratio... I think that
me be another story, perhaps a "gov't conspiracy" and they are obfuscating
the facts... heart-felt-frown

80%? Eight out of ten? You think I am an alarmist if I use "almost all"
to describe that kind of percentage? grin

John

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:56:28 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

there may be more aliens in LA than hams

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

90% or more like 80% ? what you caling almost all

myself about I guess about 80%


4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

Personaly I believe they do not realize it

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

I truely hope you are right Sir I turely do


7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

I'd love to call you a liar on that one


8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

John Smith wrote:
AOF:

I checked out Art Bell's site, but couldn't get any figures on how many
"space aliens" are residing in California, I would have loved to have made
a comparison to their numbers with amateurs, as a ratio... I think that
me be another story, perhaps a "gov't conspiracy" and they are obfuscating
the facts... heart-felt-frown

80%? Eight out of ten? You think I am an alarmist if I use "almost all"
to describe that kind of percentage? grin

I do think you are an alarmist, OTOH the state of affairs does call for
it
but 8 of ten is my experence and 1.5 out of ten are pushing upper 50's

John

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:56:28 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

there may be more aliens in LA than hams

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

90% or more like 80% ? what you caling almost all

myself about I guess about 80%


4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

Personaly I believe they do not realize it

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

I truely hope you are right Sir I turely do


7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

I'd love to call you a liar on that one


8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Smith wrote:
AOF:

I checked out Art Bell's site, but couldn't get any figures on how many
"space aliens" are residing in California, I would have loved to have
made
a comparison to their numbers with amateurs, as a ratio... I think that
me be another story, perhaps a "gov't conspiracy" and they are
obfuscating
the facts... heart-felt-frown

80%? Eight out of ten? You think I am an alarmist if I use "almost all"
to describe that kind of percentage? grin

I do think you are an alarmist, OTOH the state of affairs does call for
it
but 8 of ten is my experence and 1.5 out of ten are pushing upper 50's

John

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:56:28 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I
believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there
exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to
change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And,
what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to
keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone,
than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

there may be more aliens in LA than hams

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California,
alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

90% or more like 80% ? what you caling almost all

myself about I guess about 80%


4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they
are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

Personaly I believe they do not realize it

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

I truely hope you are right Sir I turely do


7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal
numbers.

I'd love to call you a liar on that one


8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would
have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move
towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the
truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

Then, tell me, HOW do they avoid ever pushing their upper 50's

J

Jerry wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

John Smith wrote:
AOF:

I checked out Art Bell's site, but couldn't get any figures on how many
"space aliens" are residing in California, I would have loved to have
made
a comparison to their numbers with amateurs, as a ratio... I think that
me be another story, perhaps a "gov't conspiracy" and they are
obfuscating
the facts... heart-felt-frown

80%? Eight out of ten? You think I am an alarmist if I use "almost all"
to describe that kind of percentage? grin

I do think you are an alarmist, OTOH the state of affairs does call for
it
but 8 of ten is my experence and 1.5 out of ten are pushing upper 50's

John

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 19:56:28 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I
believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there
exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to
change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And,
what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to
keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone,
than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

there may be more aliens in LA than hams

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California,
alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

90% or more like 80% ? what you caling almost all

myself about I guess about 80%


4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they
are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

Personaly I believe they do not realize it

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

I truely hope you are right Sir I turely do


7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal
numbers.

I'd love to call you a liar on that one


8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would
have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move
towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the
truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

Then, tell me, HOW do they avoid ever pushing their upper 50's

well it can be done but the method is a bit drastic

they can die, not that I am suggesting they should, Instead I'd like to
see the average brought down a bit with fresh blood

J

What, in your opinion, constitutes a "old timer". How, exactly are these
"old timers" contributing to the demise of Amateur Radio?

Dan/W4NTI

"John Smith" wrote in message
news
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California, alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and
above.

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first
stages of a massive change.

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

John

John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

Well, let's see what ya got.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California,
alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Are there more than 664,000 illegal aliens in California? If so,
your belief is reasonable.

The significance of that belief is another matter.

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of
California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Are there more than 664,000 unemployed in California? If so,
your belief is reasonable.

The significance of that belief is another matter.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and above.

What evidence do you have?

I'm 51 and have been an Extra for 35 years. I know plenty of generals
and extras younger than 60 - and plenty who are older.

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving
old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they
realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

What evidence do you have? Hoe do you define "impede progress"?

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in
regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first stages of a massive change.

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

You can believe whatever you want, John, but that doesn't make it
so.

There are plenty of people who think the earth isn't much more than
6000 years old, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

There are plenty of people who technology can solve any problem.

There are plenty of people who think that change equals progress, and
so they push change regardless of whether it does any good
or not.

There are plenty of people who embrace simple, easy answers to
complex, tough problems - because such answers usually blame
some other group.

N2EY:

That is what we are here for, the debate and weeding out the false from
the true... can't all be done in a day... bring a lunch, maybe dinner, a
bottle of your favorite beverage, have a sit... we are just about to
start...

John

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:12:33 -0700, N2EY wrote:


John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

Well, let's see what ya got.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California,
alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Are there more than 664,000 illegal aliens in California? If so,
your belief is reasonable.

The significance of that belief is another matter.

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of
California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Are there more than 664,000 unemployed in California? If so,
your belief is reasonable.

The significance of that belief is another matter.

3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and above.

What evidence do you have?

I'm 51 and have been an Extra for 35 years. I know plenty of generals
and extras younger than 60 - and plenty who are older.

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving
old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they
realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

What evidence do you have? Hoe do you define "impede progress"?

5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in
regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first stages of a massive change.

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

You can believe whatever you want, John, but that doesn't make it
so.

There are plenty of people who think the earth isn't much more than
6000 years old, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

There are plenty of people who technology can solve any problem.

There are plenty of people who think that change equals progress, and
so they push change regardless of whether it does any good
or not.

There are plenty of people who embrace simple, easy answers to
complex, tough problems - because such answers usually blame
some other group.

wrote:
John Smith wrote:
To all:

I do have opinions, I do believe I try to form correct ones. I believe I
change, adapt and re-think these opinions--and frequently, if there exists
proof to the contrary of these beliefs--I would be an IDIOT not to change
them, and men of sound sanity and judgement will be the judges. And, what
is true today may change, it may not be true forever--I would like to keep
in step with my beliefs.

Well, let's see what ya got.

However, somethings I believe a

1) There are more illegal aliens in the state of California,
alone, than
there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Are there more than 664,000 illegal aliens in California? If so,
your belief is reasonable.

The significance of that belief is another matter.

well it helps put the Interests of the ARS into perspective

2) I believe there are more unemployed in the state of
California, alone,
than there are LICENSED amateurs in the whole united states.

Are there more than 664,000 unemployed in California? If so,
your belief is reasonable.

The significance of that belief is another matter.

Ditto


3) I believe almost ALL generals and extras are sixty years of age and above.

What evidence do you have?

I'm 51 and have been an Extra for 35 years. I know plenty of generals
and extras younger than 60 - and plenty who are older.

4) I believe amateur has become a group of self-serving
old men of
yesteryear and they impede progress, I am unclear if they
realize they are
doing this, or the extent which others see them as doing that.

What evidence do you have? Hoe do you define "impede progress"?

you realy need to ask?


5) I believe MOST amateur gear is outdated, uses technology from
yesteryear and manufacturers see hams as a minute group in
regards to
sales and expendature on research and development and retooling.

6) I believe, right now as I type this, that this is all in the first stages of a massive change.

7) I believe amateur are a "Non-Issue" purely from these dismal numbers.

8) I believe much more, and it all points in the direction of the
above--amateur radio will change/adapt or die, and the oldsters would have
it die--either out of disability, ignorance or design, but the effect
would be the same--and I believe even as I type this a few move towards
the other direction, and a new day for amateur radio--I believe the truly
great men in amateur radio died when the old guy who assisted me in
getting tickets died, and I believe he would have been man enough to
have stood up to the plate and called a spade, a SPADE!

I am a believer...

You can believe whatever you want, John, but that doesn't make it
so.

There are plenty of people who think the earth isn't much more than
6000 years old, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

There are plenty of people who technology can solve any problem.

There are plenty of people who think that change equals progress, and
so they push change regardless of whether it does any good
or not.

There are plenty of people who embrace simple, easy answers to
complex, tough problems - because such answers usually blame
some other group.