"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in
.com:

snip
It's been known for years - decades - that if a big enough
storm came ashore in the right place, NO would be in big
trouble. A little more than a week ago it looked like
Katrina would hit NO dead-on with full Category 5 force.
Had that happened - and it was a real possibility - things
would probably be even worse there than today.


The first hurricane to flood the city happened in 1927. Hurricane
Betsy hit the city in 1965, flooded half the city and left 60,000
homeless. It's not like they didn't know this could happen.


Yet even with all that warning, the levee system was only good
for a Category 3 storm. People kept building there. even as the ground
kept sinking. Why?


Because of better weather prediction technology, and assurances from
the state and federal governments that they would provide assistance
in such a disaster. And because a thriving economy had already been
established -- i.e, "thar's gold in them thar swamps".


Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm?
I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have
the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place beforehand?


That's a question that will need to be answered by the state and
federal governments in the coming months.


Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or
unusual thing.

Or is that sort of thing too "liberal" for this era?

Meanwhile, Americans keep building big expensive homes and
buildings in lowlying coastal areas. And in places where the
ground shakes every so often.


And around active volcanoes, in tornado hot-zones, at the bottom of
steep mountain slopes, on muddy hillsides, etc.


Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland
in this country.


Why?


Because people think "it can't happen to me".

Besides there is no place on earth that isn't subject to some type of
natural disaster or another.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:31:50 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote in
:

snip
Why?


Because people think "it can't happen to me".

Besides there is no place on earth that isn't subject to some type of
natural disaster or another.


Some places are better than others. Look how many times a SoE has been
declared in Florida as compared to, say, Idaho.








----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

wrote in message
oups.com...
Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:


[snip]


Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm?
I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have
the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place
beforehand?
Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or
unusual thing.

There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people.
There was
ample notice of the magnitude of the storm.


It is my understanding that both the city of New Orleans and the state of
Louisiana actually have a plan to totally evacuate New Orleans but they
choose NOT to activate it.

[snip]

It seems to me that once the Administration got a clue, they
began devoting serious resources. Why it took so long for
them to get a clue is another issue. But I don't see anyone
saying it's not the Fed's job.

What I see as an issue that will be ignored is why there are
so many resources after the fact, but not before.


I've also heard that one of the major differences is that Louisiana did not
follow the example of Alabama and Mississippi in activating their state
quardsmen in advance of the hurricane.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

From: on Mon 5 Sep 2005 15:13


Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Fri 2 Sep 2005 06:09
Dave Heil wrote:


It must be close to a decade since Heil ceased being a paid
worker in the "foreign service" of the Department of State.
Absolutely NO evidence has been presented of his having learned
ANY diplomacy there.

There you go, Brian. Len's made another factual error. It won't be
five years until the end of this year.

Fair enough. Should I call him a liar at this point? Do I threaten
bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives? Maybe I need
to start a new thread about how Len might be homosexual or an idiot or
both?

Absolutely! Shout "Liar! Liar!" in here every chance you get,
charge that my pants are on fire (or 'fiar')!!!

"FACTUAL ERROR!" "FACTUAL ERROR!" :-)

Davie's Dossier has ALL the FACTS in it and ALL MUST KNOW THE
EXACT DETAILS IN IT...and never, ever remark anything FACTUALLY
WRONG ABOUT IT!!!! :-)

...okay, just where IS that dossier where we are all supposed to
KNOW ALL THE DETAILS of the Hero Diplomat from Foggy Bottom?

Do I need to do anything?

Yes, Brian, you must sound the Hue and Cry!

Death to the Infidels who dare challenge the Defenders of the
True Faith in amateur radio, the Faithful of the Church of
St. Hiram!

As to learning "ANY diplomacy",
there is never an instance where an ambassador calls a communications
type and says, "We've just received news from Washington. I want you to
go to the Foreign Ministry and make a demarche".

And there you have it.

My Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (Merriam Co., 1961) has it -

Demarche - noun, French origin, "a course of action. especially
one involving a change in policy, as in diplomacy."

Okay, let's use "demarche" in a sentence: All de morsemen do
demarche in de ranks to de same code drumbeat.



I especially like Jim's recounting amateur radio's contributions during
WWII when there was no legal amateur radio operations in the USA. He
cracks me up.

Then there's Heil's thrilling tales of African adventures
where he "synchronized" State Department communications via
morsemanship in the 1980s...

He opened and closed rtty circuits with CW?

He surely did, but not on the same frequency as the RTTY circuit.

What frequency?

Musta bin infrequently. REAL HF communicators in the post-WW2
period didn't need to "synchronize" their TTYs. Those machines
synchronize from each other, were designed that way. If some
HF net wanted to SET UP SCHEDULES of transmission, frequencies,
etc., then they would have use ANOTHER TTY circuit, usually the
"order wire" circuit used for command and control.

Of course, with a small embassy having only one radio, it's a
bit difficult.


claiming that "radio communications
paths were so poor that they would not support teleprinter/data
modes."

He was probably doing something wrong.

Actually, I maintained the lowest QSY rate of any AFRECONE station.

Is there an award for keeping folks on frequency too long?

It might be a plaque with stylized hands and drum.


That part about claiming that propagation paths were so poor that there
were times when they wouldn't support encrypted RTTY communications? It
was absolutely true. Then again, neither you nor Len know where the
other end of my circuit was. That'll just have to remain a mystery.

I've operated on encrypted circuits as well. That we lacked enough
frequencies to operate 24/7 is true.

Sunnuvagun. I shoulda chewed out the ACAN-Starcom-DCS people for
keeping that Asmara-Manila link into USAEUR network going 24/7.
I shoulda told them they COULDN'T DO THAT! [Davie told us in
the future 30 decades afterwards!]


None of that has anything to do with amateur radio...unless one
counts the entirety of the Department of State as an "amateur"
effort of foreign policy.

Do you think has an anti-U.S. Foreign Policy bias, Brian?

I -could- pretend to not understand your question, but that would be
too heilish.

Davie is from the gubmint...he here to help!

I think that Len has an anti-Heil bias. And when you apparently deny
your professional radio experience, what are we to think? I think that
you choose to not recognize your professional radio experience because
it might get in the way of your denigrations of Len.

That sounds pretty close to what everyone has read!


"Sorry Len, State Dept. Communications IS Amateur Radio!" Hi,
hi!

You wrote it. It is your quote. Don't be surprised if you see it again.

"Hi, hi!" A joke. You're welcome to bring it up again at anytime - as
a joke.

JOKES ARE NOT ALLOWED IN A MORSEMAN GROUP!!! :-)


Tsk. In other government radio, the U.S. military has maintained
teleprinter/data networks 24/7 in equatorial regions as well as
elsewhere some THIRTY YEARS PRIOR to Heil's tale of inability to
get a State Department radio circuit working. [Asmara, Eritrea,
was the principal relay point for DCS/Starcom/ACAN linkage of
Manila, Phillipines, to Pirmasens, FRG, kept open on 24/7 basis
from 1948 to about 1978...Asmara can be considered to be in the
"equatorial region" of the African continent]

I would consider it so. But I only have a degree in Geography.

With that degree, you'd likely be able to figure that Bissau and
Freetown are across the continent from Asmara. When my old colleagues
speak of the "West African Echo" they don't include East Africa. Go
figure. I didn't work into nor did I work through Asmara. The missing
piece of the puzzle for both of you is the location of the station I
worked into. Good luck.

Ascension.

Davie has achieved ultimate beatitude and ASCENDED?!? WOW!

Tsk, tsk, tsk. All that misdirection to avoid agreement that
Eritrea is close to the equator. :-)

If anyone wants, I can reveal the TTY message header addresses
(four-letter) used by the Army -and- State Department in relaying
TTY messages. But, those were used in the 1950s and 1960s and
well before Davie demarched into dis quadrangle.


Heil is of the dictatorial view that ONLY licensed radio amateurs
are worthy of commenting/talking/discussing ANYTHING about amateur
radio...the "clubhouse" syndrome. Of course, such an attitude
would NEGATE U.S. government regulation and enforcement of amateur
radio since no Commissioner or FCC staffer is required to hold any
amateur radio license grants.

That's a dichotomy in thinking of Heil as a former employee of the
U.S. government. It's also friggin' WEIRD.

Len has discussed. Len had commented. I'm guessing that Len has
talked, though there's no evidence of it here. Len has insulted. Len
has denigrated. Len has belittled.

I agree. Has Len been insulted? denigrated? belittled?

Len has been insulted. Len has been denigrated. Len has been
belittled. :-) [it's all in Google archives!]


As to the FCC staffer schpiel, it has been previously addressed a number
of times. Len isn't an FCC staffer, nor is he a radio amateur.

Nor are most FCC staffers, even the ones dealing directly with amateur
radio.

Davie ain't IN the FCC, he's just a participant and a stray
participle trying to sentence others who don't agree with him.


Heil may have spent too much time in the basement with his radios.

Now *that* would be weird. My hamshack consists of two, adjacent second
floor rooms.

You told us you lived in a tarpaper shack.

Must be some "tarpaper" underlayment on the outside walls... :-)


Heil attempts to word-play in a puerile game of trying to be the
schoolmistress rapping the knuckles of "students" who make minor
"typographical" errors in spelling.

Dave is smug.

I certainly can be from time to time.

From time to time?

Allatime! Plus arrogant, abusive, dictatorial to all that don't
agree with him. :-)


Len used a couple of words three
or more times each. He spelled them in the same incorrect way each
time. They were not typographical errors. They were Len's spelling
errors. Did you know that Len claims to be a PROFESSIONAL writer?

Aye. You should see my son's textbooks....

WOW! All professional writers are SUPPOSED to to absolutely pure
"professional work" when they aren't getting paid? I didn't know
that!

Yes, I AM a professional writer in that I get money for work
submitted for publishing. Several periodicals know that. The
IRS knows that and the Franchise Tax Board of California knows
that from the "miscellaneous income" tax forms submitted. I
get nothing by being in here...with all the "nothing" morsemen.

Heil is welcome to contact the IRS and Franchise Tax Board to
dispute the above, but such would be wasted effort on his part.

I did not mention any Hun
who wishes to conquer any ham world, only that Heil attempts to be
a master of Hunnish language and the only "judge" on translations
of Hunnish to English.

Dave must be multi-lingual.

If the word belligerent is based in Latin, then I am. Len seems to
think it was used by Attila and his horde.

What word would attila have used?

"HEIL!" :-)



"Beware the Hun in the sun!" - old RAF fighter pilot expression.
:-)

I half expected Jimmie Noserve to come in here and write that
quote! He MUST have read of it in his renowned historical reading!

If anyone wants to learn Hunnish, they need only get a Capital One
credit card and reform an invading Hun. It's in the ads. :-)

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:49:36 -0400, "Dee Flint"
wrote in
:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:


[snip]


Most of all, why wasn't everyone evacuated *before* the storm?
I know some refused to go, but many more simply did not have
the means to go. Why wasn't there a better plan in place
beforehand?
Hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico aren't a new or
unusual thing.

There should have been buses brought in to evacuate people.
There was
ample notice of the magnitude of the storm.


It is my understanding that both the city of New Orleans and the state of
Louisiana actually have a plan to totally evacuate New Orleans but they
choose NOT to activate it.


http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=973
http://gov.louisiana.gov/Press_Relea...ail.asp?id=983


[snip]

It seems to me that once the Administration got a clue, they
began devoting serious resources. Why it took so long for
them to get a clue is another issue. But I don't see anyone
saying it's not the Fed's job.

What I see as an issue that will be ignored is why there are
so many resources after the fact, but not before.


I've also heard that one of the major differences is that Louisiana did not
follow the example of Alabama and Mississippi in activating their state
quardsmen in advance of the hurricane.


They did, about 3600 of them. And Louisiana activated their NG
-before- both Alabama and Mississippi.










----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

From: "Dee Flint" on Tues 6 Sep 2005 18:31


"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
On 5 Sep 2005 18:27:06 -0700, wrote in


Tornado "hot zones" just happen to coincide with some of the best farmland
in this country.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. FACTUAL ERROR!

The San Joaquin Valley of California is NOT in "tornado alley"
of the midwest. :-)

wrote:
From: on Mon 5 Sep 2005 15:13
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Fri 2 Sep 2005 06:09
Dave Heil wrote:

It must be close to a decade since Heil ceased being a paid
worker in the "foreign service" of the Department of State.
Absolutely NO evidence has been presented of his having learned
ANY diplomacy there.

There you go, Brian. Len's made another factual error. It won't be
five years until the end of this year.

Fair enough. Should I call him a liar at this point? Do I threaten
bricks through windows, slashed tires, terrorized wives? Maybe I need
to start a new thread about how Len might be homosexual or an idiot or
both?

Absolutely! Shout "Liar! Liar!" in here every chance you get,
charge that my pants are on fire (or 'fiar')!!!

"FACTUAL ERROR!" "FACTUAL ERROR!" :-)

Davie's Dossier has ALL the FACTS in it and ALL MUST KNOW THE
EXACT DETAILS IN IT...and never, ever remark anything FACTUALLY
WRONG ABOUT IT!!!! :-)

...okay, just where IS that dossier where we are all supposed to
KNOW ALL THE DETAILS of the Hero Diplomat from Foggy Bottom?

Do I need to do anything?

Yes, Brian, you must sound the Hue and Cry!

Death to the Infidels who dare challenge the Defenders of the
True Faith in amateur radio, the Faithful of the Church of
St. Hiram!

Heil is all about Heil. Everyone else's stuff stinks.

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote

Lighten up, Hans.

My doctor said my weight is (172#) is ideal for my height.

Beep beep!
de Hans, K0HB

Got a photo of that in a flight suit? Hi!

wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

When it gets fun is when they try to explain the
biblical flood as a verbatim event. The have yet to answer
two simple questions.

Where did the water come from?
Where did the water go?

I haven't found one yet that can answer the question, How much water
would it take to cover the earth from sea level to 1 foot over the top
of Mount Everest? And What effects would this extra mass have
on the
Earth?

Well, if you melted the polar ice caps, the oceans would rise some, but
not nearly enough. Precipitate out all the atmospheric water and the
oceans would rise some more.

So the environmentalists are all wet?

But to flood the entire earth requires much more water than that.

The flood story may have its origin in reality.

There is some evidence that the Black Sea was once a fresh water lake -
and a lot smaller than it is today. This would require that the strait
near Constantinople/Istanbul was an isthmus back then.

Think hard. What would that area be called today?

Hint: We spent most of the cold war counting the Russian ships and subs
passing through there. And we're almost approaching a radio-related
topic.

The evidence says that when the oceans rose at the end of the last
ice age, water from the Mediterranean rose to the point where it
overflowed the isthmus and flowed into what is now the Black Sea -
raising its level and flooding any low=ying lakeside communities.
Which have been well below sea level ever since.

(sound familiar)

Sounds like a big flood.

Such a catastrophe would have been remembered a long time.

Perhaps even to the present day. Especially if it covered all of the
known world at the time.

Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:
I think Jesus was one cool dude, and has a lot to
tell us about how to live.

Yup - and how *not* to live.

That being said, I think that many people who are
proclaiming
themselves as "Christians" these days are not. The so-called
conservative Christians who loudly proclaim their ascendancy
these days
don't really seem to have much to do with Jesus at all.

Nothing new about that. Constantine, Cyril, the Crusades, and
of course the Spanish Inquisition.

"If Jesus came back, and saw what's going on in His name,
He'd never stop throwing up." --Frederick, in Woody
Allen's "Hannah and Her Sisters"

The closest thing that they are is a modern day version
of the Pharisees. Their trends are much more old
testament - therefore not sharing in the new
covenant proclaimed by Jesus. They push public prayer,
also proscribed
against by Jesus, they push religious domination of
government - same deal.

They've had plenty of company in the past 2000 years...

While demanding that the first books of *their* bible

Except it's not really "theirs" - particularly the first
five books...

(KJV) be taken as
absolutely literal, despite two different versions
of creation, they
totally ignore the Sermon on the Mount, in which Jesus delivers direct
orders in as plain language as you will find in the bible.
What's up with that?


It's a mystery, Mike. You just have to take it on faith.

I find it interesting that the dietary and other laws of the "old"
testament are ignored when inconvenient - just like
the inconvenient teachings of Jesus.

Fun fact: Which states do you think have the highest
and lowest
divorce rates - "conservative" red states or
"liberal" blue states?

"what God has joined together, let no man put asunder"...

Some of these good folks have figured out that they can receive
forgiveness for any of their sins, so they feel a lot better
now about sinning!

What is up with that is the modern
fundamentalist Christians are
falling for one of the oldest tricks
in the book - the false prophets.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind that
the world was *not*
created in seven days starting on Sunday, the 23rd of October
in 4004 BC
as determined by Ussher - and put in print in one of my bibles at home.


Actually, Genesis says it took six days - because the Creator
rested on the seventh day.

Rush job, too. Left a lot of holes....

void, without form


There is no doubt in my mind that the present
day universe *was*
created billions of years ago, probably in an
event we call "the Big
Bang.


There should always be doubt, Mike. The Big Bang
cosmology is simply the best explanation we
have now that fits all the scientific data. New
data might require a new cosmology.

That's one big difference between real and fake
science. Real science is always open to new
data and new explanations.

Whereas the "science" practiced by these
fake practitioners is in looking for evidence that
supports their proposition-and only their proposition.

Which isn't science at all.

When it gets fun is when they try to explain the
biblical flood as a verbatim event. The have yet to answer
two simple questions.

Where did the water come from?
Where did the water go?

I haven't found one yet that can answer the question, How much water
would it take to cover the earth from sea level to 1 foot over the top
of Mount Everest? And What effects would this extra mass have
on the
Earth?

Well, if you melted the polar ice caps, the oceans would rise some, but
not nearly enough. Precipitate out all the atmospheric water and the
oceans would rise some more.

But to flood the entire earth requires much more water than
that.

The flood story may have its origin in reality.

I don't doubt that a bit.

There is some evidence that the Black Sea was
once a fresh water lake -
and a lot smaller than it is today. This would
require that the strait
near Constantinople/Istanbul was an isthmus back then.

The evidence says that when the oceans rose
at the end of the last
ice age, water from the Mediterranean rose
to the point where it
overflowed the isthmus and flowed into what
is now the Black Sea -
raising its level and flooding any low=ying
lakeside communities.
Which have been well below sea level ever since.

(sound familiar)

Such a catastrophe would have been remembered a long time.

Yup. I am certain that some event in the past
left a big impression on
our ancestors

From their point of view, the entire earth was
covered with water. I'd
bet that some survivalist by the name of Noah put
his family on a boat,
and may have brought along some livestock. They
rode the flood out, and
built a new homestead when it was over.

The big question is how did that person know to do it?

The oral traditions of the time probably enhanced the story
with each
retelling. Then it gets written down, accepted as a good story over the ages.

Yep.

Now along comes fundamentalism, telling us we have to accept
the entire thing literal and verbatim.

While ignoring the important lessons of the story!

I highly doubt that it was created by
a supreme being.

Why? Couldn't the Supreme Being have set it all
in motion, and the Bang was just the method?

Why is not my concern, Jim. A supreme being may have created everything
yesterday, including all of our memories to the contrary.

Like I quoted about the supernatural explaining nothing...

Keerect.


But I doubt it. Seems a incredibly roundabout way of
doing things.

So what? To us humans, 100 years is a long lifetime. To geology
or evolution it's a blink of time.

4.5
billion years to have people start thinking of "him" around
4000 years
ago. Not to mention all the times they got it wrong before this one came
along....

So what? Nothing wronge with people believing whatever religion they
want, without proof, as long as they don't call it "science" or try to
force it on others.

For what
happened before then, it becomes quite complex, and I enjoy
speculation on that.

You can explain anything by using the 'supernatural'. Which means the
'supernatural' explains nothing.

73 de Jim, N2EY