From: Michael Coslo on Sep 14, 1:46 pm

wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:


Don't agree. First responders are not "radio operators", they're
firefighters, medics, police at multiple levels and all the rest. Given
a big enough disaster like the New Orleans hurricane onsite FEMA
operatives, the Coast Guard, any number of military units from all the
services also land in the middle of it.

I must not have made myself clear Brian. The answer is not in freeing
up the BW now occupied by analog television. The answer for
communications in a disaster is trained and competent operators.

I agree with all that.

And the trained operators should be called in when the regular comms
first go out, not after a few days.

I don't agree here - depending on what I think you mean by "trained
operators". Local governments can't train and store reserve
dispatchers who are only activated for drills in preparation for major
emergencies, won't work. Emergency dispatching is an art and skill
which has to be used on a very regular basis or the dispatchers lose
the edge they need to do the job properly when a "big one" hits
unexpectedly.

I think for all practical concerns, the trained operators are us. From
what I have seen in the short time that I have been a Ham, there is a
learning curve to become a proficient operator. And although A person
can become proficient of course, it takes some time. We get training all
the time in our contests, and the occasional more formal emergency
training events.

"Training in [radio] contests?!?" To do WHAT? Win points?

"In the short time that you have been a ham," you've become a
proficient law enforcement person, a medic, a fireman, are able
to wade through flood waters, put up antennas in 100+ MPH winds
and enunciate clearly into a microphone or mash your fist on a
code key as befits a 1940s radio op on a B-17 over Germany?

Remarkable. Maybe I should try that. All I had to do in the
1950s was learn and practice the art of land warfare. ["close
with, and destroy the enemy!"]

In those cases the local authorities can call up all shifts of their
regular crews to get a sufficient amount of manpower and their reserve
radios on the air. But in order to get any benefit out of an approach
like this the dispatch centers have to be able to almost immediately be
expanded and able to keep operating thru hell and high water for an
extended period. None of those type facilities are in place that I've
ever heard about.

The Greater Los Angeles Emergency Communications Center was set up
just that way prior to January 17th, 1994, and functioned very well.
No warnings whatsoever beforehand. At a few minutes past 4:30 AM
the Northridge Earthquake hit, the Pacific Intertie was broken, and
the entire area of about 10 million residents was without ANY
electric power. The Center worked, the outlying government-
utilities industry communications worked on emergency generators
(already there) and mobile, vehicle power. I repeat, NO warning
ahead of time.

How much warning did New Orleans have? 3 days, 4, 5? Hurricanes
spawn in mid-Atlantic and the Carribean and take days to come
ashore, all the time tracked by NOAA. Plenty of time for all
those hams with their indestructible ham radios to be On The
Scene as First Responders! They are all "trained and competent"
in emergency radio, right? Drill regularly in those "radiosport"
contests? READ all about it in QST?

A couple $80 million civil AWACs planes and $10 million a year to
maintain and staff 'em is chicken feed. Problem is that Haliburton will
have already drained the till before Boeing and Motorola get their
passes at it.

Hey! you stole my line!...really! ;^)

Tsk. "AWACs?" You guys have lost way too many grey cells to
ionizing radiation while being under the fantasy of "training
and competence" by virtue of sitting in front of your radddios
tweaking knobs and imagining you are all he-roes.

Five of those abandoned-and-later-flooded dozens of empty school
busses in New Orleans could have been used. No damn "$80 million"
costs involved there. With over half the city of New Orleans
BELOW sea level for YEARS, the government of the city of the Big
Easy didn't use their brains...for YEARS.

Does your ham radio FLOAT? Can your ham antenna stand up under
Force 4 winds?

Or is your "training and competence" only tied up with classroom
work, talking it up with the students, and imagining How Good
you all are?

wrote

Lotta nonsense in this article, bunch of clueless politicians going at
it as usual.

I have a real hard time believing anyone has been killed by a spectrum shortage.
Or did Katrina suck up all the RF spectrum when it came thru.

I wonder how they would have fared if comm managers had paid more attention to
survivability (site/antenna/power generation integrity, generator
shielding/protection/placement/fuel availability).

This isn't quite as glamorous as whiz-bang Trunking & Mobile data systems but
it's certainly more important.

73, de Hans, K0HB

K=D8HB wrote:
wrote

Lotta nonsense in this article, bunch of clueless politicians going at
it as usual.

I have a real hard time believing anyone has been killed by a spectrum sh=
ortage.
Or did Katrina suck up all the RF spectrum when it came thru.

Heh.

I wonder how they would have fared if comm managers had paid more attenti=
on to
survivability (site/antenna/power generation integrity, generator
shielding/protection/placement/fuel availability).

This isn't quite as glamorous as whiz-bang Trunking & Mobile data systems=
but
it's certainly more important.

You bet. No dispatch centers no radio period. I've been chasing down
articles on the subject for the last couple days. I haven't found
anything which specifically gets into the current condition of the EOCs
but bits and pieces indicate that the power and land line systems are
coming back up much faster than the municipal radio systems. But we're
talking about the Big Easy here which is not exactly the national model
for governmental planning and efficiency.

This is the town where 10% of it's police force quit on the spot and
headed out of town when Katrina landed on 'em. So who knows what shape
their first-responder's infrastucture is in? For all we know maybe all
the New Orleans EOC "sump pump operators" have quit too and the water
is still ten feet deep in the operations room . .

Homeland Secuity gotta get into this field and lay down the national
standards for siting and construction of the EOCs and all their
paraphernalia.=20

=20
73, de Hans, K0HB

w3rv

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...
Responders' lack of spectrum 'cost lives'
By Shaun Waterman
UPI Homeland and National Security Editor

Published 9/12/2005 11:40 AM

WASHINGTON, Sept. 12 (UPI) -- Former Sept. 11 commission Chairman Tom
Kean says first responders in Louisiana not having had access to
radio spectrum needed for interoperable communications "cost lives,"
as it did at the World Trade Center.

their problem is not how much spectrum, but having some channels where they
can all talk to each other. i would say that 2m would be good for them to
confiscate, along with all the repeaters and existing radios that use it.
this should give them a flexible enough chunk of spectrum, complete with an
installed set of repeaters nation wide and a large number of easily
reprogrammed radios that can do not only repeaters but simplex and even
digital communications.

Dave wrote:

"KØHB" wrote in message
ink.net...

Responders' lack of spectrum 'cost lives'
By Shaun Waterman
UPI Homeland and National Security Editor

Published 9/12/2005 11:40 AM

WASHINGTON, Sept. 12 (UPI) -- Former Sept. 11 commission Chairman Tom
Kean says first responders in Louisiana not having had access to
radio spectrum needed for interoperable communications "cost lives,"
as it did at the World Trade Center.


their problem is not how much spectrum, but having some channels where they
can all talk to each other. i would say that 2m would be good for them to
confiscate, along with all the repeaters and existing radios that use it.
this should give them a flexible enough chunk of spectrum, complete with an
installed set of repeaters nation wide and a large number of easily
reprogrammed radios that can do not only repeaters but simplex and even
digital communications.


Except that if they need some place wher they can all talk to each
other, they sure as heck don't need the entire 2 meter band! That is of
course unless they are pumping out a mighty wide signal.

The idea is incorrect at it's very root.

- Mike KB3EIA -