Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

Amateur Radio operators no longer part of Tournament of Roses Parade. The
world famous parade is held every New Year's Day in Pasadena, CA. For more
than 30 years, an amateur radio group provided support communications for
the event. But beginning this year, the amateur radio operators will no
longer be part of the event. Parade organizers have an ample supply of
alternative communications and are comfortable no longer using the amateur
radio group. They would have liked to use the hams, but it appears the hams
began to tell parade officials how to handle parts of the communications.
(Tnx to Steve Stroh, N8GNJ for the link.)

A general observation based on the article and on recent experience in my
part of the world - Many hams still view their communications support as an
essential service and have not appreciated that communications is now a
commodity availlable through many alternatives. I have personally seen
situations where amateurs adopted an attitude that clearly lost sight of
themselves delivering a service to someone else. As a service provider, the
served agency (or in this case, the parade officials) are the customer. You
do what the customer requires. Too many ham groups get confused on this
point and try to run the show themselves.

In my state, we have a lot of hams volunteering to help the Red Cross in
times of emergency. A decade ago, hams were called a lot to provide
communications at many disaster situations. Today, locally, they are called,
perhaps, once per year or less, because the Red Cross has many communication
options available today. Many hams still view communications problems as
"ham radio problems". They do not think outside the box. From the Red Cross
perspective, I have an emergency problem and I will solve that problem using
all possible solutions available to me, with hams being one of those tools
(I am a ham radio operator too). My job (as a volunteer) is not to create
communication opportunities for hams, but to render disaster relief in the
most effective way I can. Some hams believed it was my job to define all
communications problems in terms of them. Hams have a lot to offer, but not
all groups are stepping up to the modern era and offering the right blend of
services that meet served agency needs. And their groups are dying.

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:50:14 -0500, "No Roses" ssb@anon wrote:


Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

Amateur Radio operators no longer part of Tournament of Roses Parade. The
world famous parade is held every New Year's Day in Pasadena, CA. For more
than 30 years, an amateur radio group provided support communications for
the event. But beginning this year, the amateur radio operators will no
longer be part of the event. Parade organizers have an ample supply of
alternative communications and are comfortable no longer using the amateur
radio group. They would have liked to use the hams, but it appears the hams
began to tell parade officials how to handle parts of the communications.
(Tnx to Steve Stroh, N8GNJ for the link.)

cut for breifity

I have heard such stories before but not on this scale

In Illioois IEMA and ARES were not (and may still not be speaking)

it is easy to looks at some ham personalities and igmaine the
conversations

Dan was commenting that Red Cross seemed to be avoiding the use of Ham
Radio during Katrina

this sort of thing is likely to become an increasing problem for the
ARS in the future
_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

Amateur Radio operators no longer part of Tournament of Roses Parade. The
world famous parade is held every New Year's Day in Pasadena, CA. For more
than 30 years, an amateur radio group provided support communications for
the event. But beginning this year, the amateur radio operators will no
longer be part of the event. Parade organizers have an ample supply of
alternative communications and are comfortable no longer using the amateur
radio group. They would have liked to use the hams, but it appears the hams
began to tell parade officials how to handle parts of the communications.
(Tnx to Steve Stroh, N8GNJ for the link.)

A general observation based on the article and on recent experience in my
part of the world - Many hams still view their communications support as an
essential service and have not appreciated that communications is now a
commodity availlable through many alternatives. I have personally seen
situations where amateurs adopted an attitude that clearly lost sight of
themselves delivering a service to someone else. As a service provider, the
served agency (or in this case, the parade officials) are the customer. You
do what the customer requires. Too many ham groups get confused on this
point and try to run the show themselves.

In my state, we have a lot of hams volunteering to help the Red Cross in
times of emergency. A decade ago, hams were called a lot to provide
communications at many disaster situations. Today, locally, they are called,
perhaps, once per year or less, because the Red Cross has many communication
options available today. Many hams still view communications problems as
"ham radio problems". They do not think outside the box. From the Red Cross
perspective, I have an emergency problem and I will solve that problem using
all possible solutions available to me, with hams being one of those tools
(I am a ham radio operator too). My job (as a volunteer) is not to create
communication opportunities for hams, but to render disaster relief in the
most effective way I can. Some hams believed it was my job to define all
communications problems in terms of them. Hams have a lot to offer, but not
all groups are stepping up to the modern era and offering the right blend of
services that meet served agency needs. And their groups are dying.

wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

Had the "subject line" said this, the rest of the comments by the
Anonymous Troll might have been a bit less tainted.

Amateur Radio operators no longer part of Tournament of Roses Parade. The
world famous parade is held every New Year's Day in Pasadena, CA. For more
than 30 years, an amateur radio group provided support communications for
the event. But beginning this year, the amateur radio operators will no
longer be part of the event. Parade organizers have an ample supply of
alternative communications and are comfortable no longer using the amateur
radio group. They would have liked to use the hams, but it appears the hams
began to tell parade officials how to handle parts of the communications.
(Tnx to Steve Stroh, N8GNJ for the link.)

A general observation based on the article and on recent experience in my
part of the world - Many hams still view their communications support as an
essential service and have not appreciated that communications is now a
commodity availlable through many alternatives. I have personally seen
situations where amateurs adopted an attitude that clearly lost sight of
themselves delivering a service to someone else. As a service provider, the
served agency (or in this case, the parade officials) are the customer. You
do what the customer requires. Too many ham groups get confused on this
point and try to run the show themselves.

A bit of pontification by an Anonymous "source".

In my state, we have a lot of hams volunteering to help the Red Cross in
times of emergency. A decade ago, hams were called a lot to provide
communications at many disaster situations. Today, locally, they are called,
perhaps, once per year or less, because the Red Cross has many communication
options available today. Many hams still view communications problems as
"ham radio problems". They do not think outside the box....(SNIP)

Hmmmmmmm....Seems the box they were within was pretty solid over
the last four months...espeically since "professional" planners such as
this Anonymous poster failed and failed spectacularly.

And if he or she as a Red Cross manager or agent of some sort
doesn't call those Amateurs to plan, practice and drill WITH the Red
Cross, as the above would indicate, then s/he has only manufactured the
problem.

Yes, I understand that the Red Cross has lots of cellphones and
lots of their own radios.

Yet none of the ones they had in New Orleans did them much
good...now did they?

From the Red Cross
perspective, I have an emergency problem and I will solve that problem using
all possible solutions available to me, with hams being one of those tools
(I am a ham radio operator too). My job (as a volunteer) is not to create
communication opportunities for hams, but to render disaster relief in the
most effective way I can. Some hams believed it was my job to define all
communications problems in terms of them.

So far, from what's been reported in the press over the last four
months (and I DO refer to the "general media"...Not just ARRL/CQ) has
been that the "blend" was just right...Mobile, adaptable communications
that were effective, dependable and cost effective.

Hams have a lot to offer, but not
all groups are stepping up to the modern era and offering the right blend of
services that meet served agency needs. And their groups are dying.

The people who needed to be "stepping up" were the ones getting
bunches of bunches (read that tens-of-millions of dollars) of state
and federal monies for all those high tech communications facilities
that were SUPPOSED to stand up to these kind of natural
disasters...That includes Red Cross, local EMA's, state EMS agencies,
Public Safety departments, etc etc etc.

(1) No where in the piece did anyone say that Amateurs had
"ruined" their welcome. It simply said the Rose Parade folks are now
using other resources. No big deal. Many agencies prefer to keep a
tighter rein over persons "working" for them, and I see this as nothing
less. Without the "author" telling us who he/she is and from what
position of authority they make the claim that Amateurs have "ruined"
anything, I find the subject line laughable at best.

Mind you I am not doubting that they (the Rose Parade staff) may
have found other communications resoures.

(2) The original comments are from an anonymous poster who makes
suggestions that he or she is a person of some importance as a "Red
Cross" representitive. Sorry. No name, office, assignment, post, etc,
leaves me as ANYTHING but "impressed" with his/her comments about
his/her alleged experiences with Amateurs as described as they pertain
to other "emergency communications". In short, it sounds like a troll.

(3) This in no way, shape or form mitigates a single bit of
anything that has occured or continues to occur as it pertains to the
integration of and deployment of Amateur Radio resources for disaster
relief. The FACT remains that the American Red Cross, The Department
of State, the Department of Homeland Defense, The Defense Department,
The Salvation Army, etc etc etc all maintain MOU's, or Memorandum's of
Understanding with the ARRL at the National level and various
organizations at the local levels to provide EMERGENCY communicaitons.

In as much as the Rose Parade is an annual event, one would be
hard pressed to refer to it as "emergent".

(4) We're still waiting for YOUR presentation of qualifying
references on comments YOU have made on other "emergency comms" issues.
YOUR track record on such issues is, in-and-of-itself, lacking.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade
cut

A general observation based on the article and on recent experience in my
part of the world - Many hams still view their communications support as an
essential service and have not appreciated that communications is now a
commodity availlable through many alternatives. I have personally seen
situations where amateurs adopted an attitude that clearly lost sight of
themselves delivering a service to someone else. As a service provider, the
served agency (or in this case, the parade officials) are the customer. You
do what the customer requires. Too many ham groups get confused on this
point and try to run the show themselves.

A bit of pontification by an Anonymous "source".
your point? if any
cut
Yes, I understand that the Red Cross has lots of cellphones and
lots of their own radios.

Yet none of the ones they had in New Orleans did them much
good...now did they?

why do you say that? guess you didnot read the articles posted here on
the subject

they did not get as much service as they hoped for but they and other
still got service
cut

(3) This in no way, shape or form mitigates a single bit of
anything that has occured or continues to occur as it pertains to the
integration of and deployment of Amateur Radio resources for disaster
relief. The FACT remains that the American Red Cross, The Department
of State, the Department of Homeland Defense, The Defense Department,
The Salvation Army, etc etc etc all maintain MOU's, or Memorandum's of
Understanding with the ARRL at the National level and various
organizations at the local levels to provide EMERGENCY communicaitons.

and yet why did Dan make coments along the same lines about ARS
activities during Katrina
cut

an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

cut

I assume then you agree with my comments since you snipped them
without disagreement or other comment.

A general observation...(SNIP TO...) to run the show themselves.

A bit of pontification by an Anonymous "source".

your point? if any

Do you understand the meaning of the word "pontification"...?!?!

(That was a rhetorical question, of course...if you DID understand
it, you would hve gotten my "point"....)

Yes, I understand that the Red Cross has lots of cellphones and
lots of their own radios.

Yet none of the ones they had in New Orleans did them much
good...now did they?

why do you say that? guess you didnot read the articles posted here on
the subject

Sure I did...and in the New York Times, MSN On-Line, CNN.com, etc
etc etc.

And most of them were useless, just like I said.

they did not get as much service as they hoped for but they and other
still got service

They got squat. Amateurs were "carrying the freight" for days
down there.

(3) This in no way, shape or form mitigates a single bit of
anything that has occured or continues to occur as it pertains to the
integration of and deployment of Amateur Radio resources for disaster
relief. The FACT remains that the American Red Cross, The Department
of State, the Department of Homeland Defense, The Defense Department,
The Salvation Army, etc etc etc all maintain MOU's, or Memorandum's of
Understanding with the ARRL at the National level and various
organizations at the local levels to provide EMERGENCY communicaitons.

and yet why did Dan make coments along the same lines about ARS
activities during Katrina

One man, one opinion...In neither case does it change FACTS that
Amateur Radio is STILL the option of choice for mobile, immediate,
reliable emergency communications. THAT is established by the
aforementioned MOU's above and the previously mentioned news sources.

Steve, K4YZ

K4YZ wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

cut

I assume then you agree with my comments since you snipped them
without disagreement or other comment.
I can't stop you from assuming anything I can and do point out it
merely makes you an ass

an Old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

cut

I assume then you agree with my comments since you snipped them
without disagreement or other comment.

I can't stop you from assuming anything

But you COULD do something about your grammar and thereby alleviate
much of the confusion.

I can and do point out it merely makes you an ###

No...It only makes me tired in trying to decipher and full of pity
that a "man" pushing 40 can't express himself any better than you do.

Steve, K4YZ

On 4 Jan 2006 17:01:28 -0800, "K4YZ" wrote:


an Old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

cut

I assume then you agree with my comments since you snipped them
without disagreement or other comment.

I can't stop you from assuming anything

But you COULD do something about your grammar and thereby alleviate
much of the confusion.

no I could not

you seek to be confused

I can and do point out it merely makes you an ###

No...It only makes me tired in trying to decipher and full of pity
that a "man" pushing 40 can't express himself any better than you do.

another lie

no one is making you do anything

therefore by your words you are a child abuser

Steve, K4YZ

everyone should be advised that The following person
has been advocating the abuse of elders making false charges of child rape, rape in general forges post and name

he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes
he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable

STEVEN J ROBESON
151 12TH AVE NW
WINCHESTER TN 37398
931-967-6282

well stevie you assked for it you got it
Mark Morgan


_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 140,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account

wrote:
On 4 Jan 2006 17:01:28 -0800, "K4YZ" wrote:
an Old friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
No Roses wrote:
Amateur Radio no longer at Rose Parade

cut

I assume then you agree with my comments since you snipped them
without disagreement or other comment.

I can't stop you from assuming anything

But you COULD do something about your grammar and thereby alleviate
much of the confusion.

no I could not

Sure you can.

you seek to be confused

No, I don't.

I can and do point out it merely makes you an ###

No...It only makes me tired in trying to decipher and full of pity
that a "man" pushing 40 can't express himself any better than you do.

another lie

Nope.

no one is making you do anything

I didn't say anyone was "making" me do anything, Marike.

I simply stated that reading your dreck is tiring. That's true.
I also hold pity for you in that you are almost 40 and still express
yourself like a lazy second grader. That's true also.

therefore by your words you are a child abuser

Nope. YOU continue to misqoute me.

Why do you choose to be deceitful?

Steve, K4YZ