Slow Code wrote:
No, numbers are decreasing because ham radio has been dumbed down so
having a ham license isn't worth anything anymore and people are leaving.

Therefore, if the ARS required MENSA membership, there would
be more hams?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:36:36 GMT, Slow Code wrote:

No, numbers are decreasing because ham radio has been dumbed down so
having a ham license isn't worth anything anymore and people are leaving.

no slow code the number are down because with Code testing looks so
stupid

Code testing is absurd. The government shouldn't be in the merit badge
business.

If you really need a merit badge to hang on the wall, listen to W1AW
during a qualifying run....

Cecil Moore wrote:
Slow Code wrote:

No, numbers are decreasing because ham radio has been dumbed down so
having a ham license isn't worth anything anymore and people are leaving.

Therefore, if the ARS required MENSA membership, there would
be more hams?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Guys don't have mensas. If they did, this would be called the "Women's
League of Coders."

;^)

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:36:36 GMT, Slow Code spake
thusly:

Barry OGrady wrote in
:

On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 22:54:46 -0500, Nada Tapu wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:23:03 GMT, Slow Code wrote:


Or just lazy people out?

Sc

It certainly didn't keep me out, and I wasn't all that crazy about
learning it, either.

More to the point, are there more licensed amateurs since the code
requirement was removed years ago?


No, numbers are decreasing because ham radio has been dumbed down so
having a ham license isn't worth anything anymore and people are leaving.

No, it's dying because of attitudes like yours that scare people away.
Nobody wants to be like you.

Opus- wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:36:36 GMT, Slow Code spake
thusly:


More to the point, are there more licensed amateurs since the code
requirement was removed years ago?


No, numbers are decreasing because ham radio has been dumbed down so
having a ham license isn't worth anything anymore and people are leaving.

No, it's dying because of attitudes like yours that scare people away.
not scare or not just scare disgust indeed it was the attitude of
people like sc and Robeson that served as a the major to each newbie I
have helped to obtain a license

Nobody wants to be like you.

afew do to be fair but not near enough to be usefull nor is the result
desiable

Opus- wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 00:36:36 GMT, Slow Code spake
thusly:


More to the point, are there more licensed amateurs since the code
requirement was removed years ago?


No, numbers are decreasing because ham radio has been dumbed down so
having a ham license isn't worth anything anymore and people are leaving.

No, it's dying because of attitudes like yours that scare people away.
not scare or not just scare disgust indeed it was the attitude of
people like sc and Robeson that served as a the major to each newbie I
have helped to obtain a license

Nobody wants to be like you.

afew do to be fair but not near enough to be usefull nor is the result
desiable

Nada Tapu wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:39:47 -0400, wrote:


Call me old fashioned, but I think the code makes amateur radio look
rather quaint and charming myself. It's a legacy mode, and just because it's a relic

which means you agree with my point but lack the guts to say so

it it makes us look like relics

From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm


On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:

no slow code the number are down because with Code testing looks so
stpupid

The numbers are down for a variety of reasons, but I suspect that
computers and the internet are the major factors, not the CW
requirement.

The ready-built Personal Computer first appeared in 1976,
30 years ago (the "IBM PC" debuted in 1980, 26 years ago).
The Internet went public in 1991, 15 years ago.
"Restructuring" to drop the morse test rate to 5 WPM
for all such tests happened only 6 years ago.

The peak licensing of 737,938 happened on 2 Jul 03, just
3 years ago. [they've been dropping at an average of 7K
per year ever since]

I disagree on your reasons stated in your quote above.

When I ask technical people about why they haven't
acquired an interest in amateur radio, I never get the CW requirement
as a response.

Strange, I hear that response. Having been IN radio-
electronics for over a half century, I DO know some
"technical people." :-)

Manual radiotelegraphy was a MUST to use early radio
as a communications medium. The technology of early
radio was primitive, simple, and not yet developed.
On-off keying was the ONLY practical way to make it
possible to communicate. Morse code was then already
mature and a new branch of communications was open
to use by downsized landline telegraphers.

They simply view the whole service as outmoded in the
face of modern telecommunications.

PART of that IS true. NOT all of it.

What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Another thing outmoded is the strict "necessity" to use
a formalism in "procedure" AS IF it was "professional"
radio. That formalism was established between 50 to 70
years ago. Amateur radio, by definition, is NOT
professional. Too many olde-tymers want to PRETEND
they are pros in front of their ham rigs.

But, there is still an enormous area of the EM spectrum
that is still open for experimentation, for just the fun
of doing something out of the ordinary above 30 MHz.
That can be a very different RF environment, much much
different than the technology available in the 20s and
30s. It has exciting possibilities...except for the
rutted and mired olde-tymers unable to keep up with new
things, secure in their own dreams of youth and simple
technological environment.

Let's face it.. the romance is gone.

Oh, boo hoo...the "romance" of the 1930s is gone? Yes,
it IS. The "pioneering of the airwaves" below 30 MHz
has been DONE...mostly by the pros of radio (despite what
the ARRL claims). DONE a long time ago. The solid-state
era came into being about 45 years ago and has
revolutionized ALL electronics (radio is a subset of that).

Except as memorabilia trinkets of the past, GONE is the
analog VFO, GONE is the one-tube regenerative receiver,
GONE is the single-crystal-single-frequency Tx, GONE is
the big, bulky AM modulator amplifier, GONE is the not-
knowing-when-the-bands-are-open (solar activity and
ionosonding solved that and HF MUF is a predictable
item that can be found by a computer program). Except
for the boatanchor afficionados, vacuum tubes are GONE
for nearly everything but high-power transmitters.

The radio world of today is NOT that of 1950, nor of
1960, nor 1970, nor even 1980s. It keeps changing,
advancing, the state of the art never static. For the
stuck-in-the-mud olde tymers that is terrible...they
feel insecure on not being able to keep up, become
aggressive to newcomers ("no kids, lids or space
cadets") and retreat to the "secure" mode of their
youth, "CW." But, they want to make sure They get
the respect they feel they've "earned" (as if) so
they try and try and try to bring all down to THEIR
level...the code test MUST stay..."because."

There are 100 million two-way radios in use in the USA
alone, millions more in other countries. Those are the
cellular telephones. There are millions of VHF and UHF
transceivers in the USA, working daily for public
safety agencies, ships, private boats, air carriers as
well as private airplanes. There are tens of thousands
of HF transceivers in use in the USA, users being
everyone from government agencies to private boat
owners, ALL exclusive of amateur radio users. Where is
the "romance" in all this Plenty from a cornucopia that
all have grabbed? It is GONE, yes.

But, NEW "romances" await. DIFFERENT ones, I'd say a
helluva lot more complex than old, simple "radio." We
can't relive old "romances" except in our minds and we
can't grow physically younger. Only person-to-person
romance is TRUE, the other "romance" is of the
imagination, of the fantasy of what was once there.
This fantasy "romance" can't be brought back. It can't
be legislated into remaining static. The rules and
regulations have to change to keep up with the NOW.

Nada Tapu wrote:
On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 21:06:23 -0400, wrote:

yes you are stupid and anothe rof the usenet cowards

This discussion is over. You lose. And to prove it, you had to get
personal and I didn't. I will not engage in a reasoned debate with an
individual such as you. If you really are an amateur operator, and I
sincerely doubt that you are, do us all a favor and keep your seething
hatred and childish foot stomping off of the bands.

NT

If you really are an amateur operator, why can't you give out
your license callsign?

How DOES one have a "reasoned debate" with an anony-mousie
such as "Nada Tapu"?

I've not seen that such is possible in here except for two and
both of them are self-admitted Canadians.

wrote:
On 30 Sep 2006 22:36:54 -0700, "
wrote:

From: Nada Tapu on Sat, Sep 30 2006 2:23 pm


On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:56:08 -0400, wrote:

no slow code the number are down because with Code testing looks so
stpupid

The numbers are down for a variety of reasons, but I suspect that
computers and the internet are the major factors, not the CW
requirement.

The ready-built Personal Computer first appeared in 1976,
30 years ago (the "IBM PC" debuted in 1980, 26 years ago).
The Internet went public in 1991, 15 years ago.
"Restructuring" to drop the morse test rate to 5 WPM
for all such tests happened only 6 years ago.

The peak licensing of 737,938 happened on 2 Jul 03, just
3 years ago. [they've been dropping at an average of 7K
per year ever since]

I disagree on your reasons stated in your quote above.

When I ask technical people about why they haven't
acquired an interest in amateur radio, I never get the CW requirement
as a response.

Strange, I hear that response. Having been IN radio-
electronics for over a half century, I DO know some
"technical people." :-)

Manual radiotelegraphy was a MUST to use early radio
as a communications medium. The technology of early
radio was primitive, simple, and not yet developed.
On-off keying was the ONLY practical way to make it
possible to communicate. Morse code was then already
mature and a new branch of communications was open
to use by downsized landline telegraphers.

They simply view the whole service as outmoded in the
face of modern telecommunications.

PART of that IS true. NOT all of it.

What IS outmoded (technically) is sitting only on HF
and "working" other stations with morse radiotelegraphy.
Amateur radio is the ONLY radio service still using
morse radiotelegraphy for communications purposes.

Another thing outmoded is the strict "necessity" to use
a formalism in "procedure" AS IF it was "professional"
radio. That formalism was established between 50 to 70
years ago. Amateur radio, by definition, is NOT
professional. Too many olde-tymers want to PRETEND
they are pros in front of their ham rigs.

But, there is still an enormous area of the EM spectrum
that is still open for experimentation, for just the fun
of doing something out of the ordinary above 30 MHz.
That can be a very different RF environment, much much
different than the technology available in the 20s and
30s. It has exciting possibilities...except for the
rutted and mired olde-tymers unable to keep up with new
things, secure in their own dreams of youth and simple
technological environment.

Let's face it.. the romance is gone.

Oh, boo hoo...the "romance" of the 1930s is gone? Yes,
it IS. The "pioneering of the airwaves" below 30 MHz
has been DONE...mostly by the pros of radio (despite what
the ARRL claims). DONE a long time ago. The solid-state
era came into being about 45 years ago and has
revolutionized ALL electronics (radio is a subset of that).

Except as memorabilia trinkets of the past, GONE is the
analog VFO, GONE is the one-tube regenerative receiver,
GONE is the single-crystal-single-frequency Tx, GONE is
the big, bulky AM modulator amplifier, GONE is the not-
knowing-when-the-bands-are-open (solar activity and
ionosonding solved that and HF MUF is a predictable
item that can be found by a computer program). Except
for the boatanchor afficionados, vacuum tubes are GONE
for nearly everything but high-power transmitters.

The radio world of today is NOT that of 1950, nor of
1960, nor 1970, nor even 1980s. It keeps changing,
advancing, the state of the art never static. For the
stuck-in-the-mud olde tymers that is terrible...they
feel insecure on not being able to keep up, become
aggressive to newcomers ("no kids, lids or space
cadets") and retreat to the "secure" mode of their
youth, "CW." But, they want to make sure They get
the respect they feel they've "earned" (as if) so
they try and try and try to bring all down to THEIR
level...the code test MUST stay..."because."

There are 100 million two-way radios in use in the USA
alone, millions more in other countries. Those are the
cellular telephones. There are millions of VHF and UHF
transceivers in the USA, working daily for public
safety agencies, ships, private boats, air carriers as
well as private airplanes. There are tens of thousands
of HF transceivers in use in the USA, users being
everyone from government agencies to private boat
owners, ALL exclusive of amateur radio users. Where is
the "romance" in all this Plenty from a cornucopia that
all have grabbed? It is GONE, yes.

But, NEW "romances" await. DIFFERENT ones, I'd say a
helluva lot more complex than old, simple "radio." We
can't relive old "romances" except in our minds and we
can't grow physically younger. Only person-to-person
romance is TRUE, the other "romance" is of the
imagination, of the fantasy of what was once there.
This fantasy "romance" can't be brought back. It can't
be legislated into remaining static. The rules and
regulations have to change to keep up with the NOW.

a nice peice of writing stored I may lift a peice or for something I
am working on

Thank you. Feel free to use any part. I would be nice to
get credit for it, a common courtesy.


but yes their is still magaic I play with it (although yes acess to HF
would be a help as I learn the ins and out of EME and other VHF+ modes
pity that progress in the ARS is opposed at every turn by hams
themslves

"Magic" is a subjective term. The "magic" of HF worldwide comms
dissolved into reality for me in 1953 on seeing such wholesale
"magic" working 24/7 in tying US Army (and other military) into
the large network going back to the states.

"Different strokes for different folks."

ARRL is still fixated on HF and the "magic" of morse. Since they
influence (if not brainwash) as many US hams as they can with
their huge publishing effort, we aren't supposed to negatively
critique them. That's "not nice" to those who've had their brains
washed in that way.

I've seen "real" magic at the Magic Castle in Hollywood, CA. That's
mainly a professional association of magicians/illusionists. One
can't gain entrance without being admitted by a member. I've had
the marvelous opportunity to go in three times there...and be
totally fascinated by the illusions. Whenever I see some ham
bring up "magic" I think of the Magic Castle. A lot of hams ascribe
"magic" to HF comms but that is their own private illusion (or
delusion, as the case may be). Shrug. To each his own but I
don't like others trying to cram Their delusions into everyone.