On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:45:57 -0400, "ohioradioham"
wrote:

Blow Code - your ideas will damn amateur radio and kill it.

That's evidently why the number of hams kept decreasing until code was
eliminated, right?

Oh, wait a minute - the numbers didn't START decreasing until code was
eliminated.

Forcing CW onto newcomers will only turn them away
from amateur radio since CW is seen by outsiders as old-fashioned and
out-of-date. This is the 21st Century and people do not want to be forced
to learn and use and communication method developed in the 19th Century.

People today don't want to be forced to learn - whether it's CW, or
how to build a trivial little interface between a transceiver (modern
invention) and a computer (another modern invention), or some antenna
theory. Just hand them a license and a radio and they want to be on
the air.

Grow up and face reality.

Reality is that ham radio is turning into a multi-band CB - just buy a
radio and get on the air without actually knowing how it works or how
to use it.

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:41:23 -0400, Al Klein
wrote:

Reality is that ham radio is turning into a multi-band CB - just buy a
radio and get on the air without actually knowing how it works or how
to use it.

------------ REPLY SEPARATOR ------------

Much as it pains me, I have to admit the above is true. It is
happening because that's what the majority wants. Isn't democracy
wonderful?

Sigh.

Bill, W6WRT
Licensed since 1957, the good 'ol days
20 WPM Extra who dislikes CW and always will

"Bill Turner" wrote in message
...
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:41:23 -0400, Al Klein
wrote:

Reality is that ham radio is turning into a multi-band CB - just buy a
radio and get on the air without actually knowing how it works or how
to use it.

------------ REPLY SEPARATOR ------------

Much as it pains me, I have to admit the above is true. It is
happening because that's what the majority wants. Isn't democracy
wonderful?

Sigh.

Bill, W6WRT
Licensed since 1957, the good 'ol days
20 WPM Extra who dislikes CW and always will

I'll agree with this - to a point. While hams "could" go about their hobby
and be creative - making gadgets and so on to aid in their hobby or whatever
else to keep the "electronics" part of it alive, many don't. Many just do as
suggested, buy a radio and operate it - not doing another thing. Yes it can
be a bit of a pain to design a multi band or even single band
transmitter/receiver or transceiver - while they may not equal an off the
shelf unit such as a Icom 706 or whatever, it does add to the fun of
"Creating" and "Using" it. Yeah I know - like a car, who wants to build when
you can buy. But if you've not built from scratch - try it sometime.
I've built many items and enjoy using them. They've also saved me umpteen
hours of work to boot. I build only items I know I can get use of, not
something I'm going to waste money on buying parts, time and labor and other
materials - just to throw it in a drawer. IF you build something of use or
convenience, you will appreciate it and desire to do even more. THAT is one
way to carry out the Ham tradition EVEN IF you hate code and swear it off. I
had to know code also for passing exams. I AM an examiner. I'm not "in love"
with code, but then many are. To each their own. Radio is fairly diverse, it
allows you to find your niche.

Technology in itself has to carry some blame - not everyone can repair the
current type of equipment being sold. Not everyone has the tools and
necessary special soldering/desoldering equipment. Some of that can cost as
much as a radio - itself. So, I say if ya want to at least "try" to
participate in repairing your own, buy some older stuff, use it, repair it,
ENJOY it. Enjoy using it AND being able to keep it alive.

I guess to make a point short and to the point - if you like ham - try to
get as much out of the hobby as you can - after all - you took the time to
get a license and spent the money to get involved. IF you don't like ham -
maybe into CB, fine - learn what you need about antennas, coax, etc......
and get into your hobby that way. There IS something for everyone if they
just LOOK. A hoby, regardless of it's nature - is to be ENJOYED.

Lou/Ka3flu

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:25:17 -0400, "clfe"
wrote:

Yes it can
be a bit of a pain to design a multi band or even single band
transmitter/receiver or transceiver - while they may not equal an off the
shelf unit such as a Icom 706 or whatever, it does add to the fun of
"Creating" and "Using" it.

------------ REPLY SEPARATOR ------------

Right you are, but there is one area where homebuilders can still
equal or even outperform commercial manufacturers: High power
amplifiers.

Amplifiers these days are so expensive to buy and yet so simple to
build that a lot of hams enjoying rolling their own. Anyone interested
should join the Amps reflector at contesting.com or the RFAmplifiers
group at yahoo.com, or both.

Don't expect to throw one together in a weekend, but do spend some
time learning the ins and outs of amp design and go for it.

Fun, fun, fun!

Bill, W6WRT

Al Klein wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 08:45:57 -0400, "ohioradioham"
wrote:

Blow Code - your ideas will damn amateur radio and kill it.

That's evidently why the number of hams kept decreasing until code was
eliminated, right?

The drop would have been far worse than it is now had the CW testing
speed not been reduced.

Oh, wait a minute - the numbers didn't START decreasing until code was
eliminated.

Sorry Al, but the drop of CW came around the explosion of the Internet.
Young people see our hobby as outdated and the CW testing requirement
reinforces that. What to see a huge drop in licenses? Bring back CW
testing for all licenses and raise the speeds again. There will be
hardly any new licenses issued if someone made such a gross and stupid
error in judgement.


Forcing CW onto newcomers will only turn them away
from amateur radio since CW is seen by outsiders as old-fashioned and
out-of-date. This is the 21st Century and people do not want to be forced
to learn and use and communication method developed in the 19th Century.

People today don't want to be forced to learn - whether it's CW, or
how to build a trivial little interface between a transceiver (modern
invention) and a computer (another modern invention), or some antenna
theory. Just hand them a license and a radio and they want to be on
the air.

Grow up and face reality.

Reality is that ham radio is turning into a multi-band CB - just buy a
radio and get on the air without actually knowing how it works or how
to use it.

CW testing has nothing to do with knowing how the radio works or how it
operates. Thanks for reinforcing some of my previous positions.

The ham bands were filled with idiots when we had all that CW testing.
CW testing has never kept out the idiots and never will.

Besides, since the US is a democracy, the ham bands will turn into
whatever we let it turn into because the majority rules and CW freaks
like yourself are increasingly in the minority.

On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:49:35 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Young people see our hobby as outdated and the CW testing requirement
reinforces that. What to see a huge drop in licenses? Bring back CW
testing for all licenses and raise the speeds again. There will be
hardly any new licenses issued if someone made such a gross and stupid
error in judgement.

The drop started MANY years before CW was dropped. Want to increase
the number of hams? Eliminate cellular phones (a lot of people got on
the air to have communications in the car) and the internet - since
those are two of the prime causes of lack of interest in ham radio
today.

CW testing has nothing to do with knowing how the radio works or how it
operates.

But many of the same people who want to eliminate CW also want to
eliminate any tests that would really test for knowledge. It's not CW
they want to eliminate, it's effort. You can cheat on written tests
but, since you can't cheat much on CW (although some have), they want
it eliminated. Not just kept for one class of license. What's wrong
with code-free HF, but an additional class with, say, a 20wpm CW test?
It would have nothing to do with the number of people becoming hams.
But those who are opposed to CW testing are opposed to ALL CW testing.
Getting on the air - with the highest class license available is, to
them, their right.

It's like people who are adamantly opposed to having driver's licenses
revoked because "driving is a right".

Sorry, but getting on the public airwaves is not a right.

Besides, since the US is a democracy, the ham bands will turn into
whatever we let it turn into because the majority rules

Democracy is a form of government that protects the minority from the
excesses of the majority - the majority doesn't need protection from
itself.

....Would any of you say that Heathkit, of Benton Harbour, Michigan, maybe
perpetuated the glamour within the ham hobby of the recent past, or did the
glamour of the ham hobby past perpetuate Heathkit until there was no more
glamour?

Jack

"Al Klein" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:49:35 -0400, "J. D. B."
wrote:

Young people see our hobby as outdated and the CW testing requirement
reinforces that. What to see a huge drop in licenses? Bring back CW
testing for all licenses and raise the speeds again. There will be
hardly any new licenses issued if someone made such a gross and stupid
error in judgement.

The drop started MANY years before CW was dropped. Want to increase
the number of hams? Eliminate cellular phones (a lot of people got on
the air to have communications in the car) and the internet - since
those are two of the prime causes of lack of interest in ham radio
today.

CW testing has nothing to do with knowing how the radio works or how it
operates.

But many of the same people who want to eliminate CW also want to
eliminate any tests that would really test for knowledge. It's not CW
they want to eliminate, it's effort. You can cheat on written tests
but, since you can't cheat much on CW (although some have), they want
it eliminated. Not just kept for one class of license. What's wrong
with code-free HF, but an additional class with, say, a 20wpm CW test?
It would have nothing to do with the number of people becoming hams.
But those who are opposed to CW testing are opposed to ALL CW testing.
Getting on the air - with the highest class license available is, to
them, their right.

It's like people who are adamantly opposed to having driver's licenses
revoked because "driving is a right".

Sorry, but getting on the public airwaves is not a right.

Besides, since the US is a democracy, the ham bands will turn into
whatever we let it turn into because the majority rules

Democracy is a form of government that protects the minority from the
excesses of the majority - the majority doesn't need protection from
itself.

wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:41:23 -0400, Al Klein wrote:

That's evidently why the number of hams kept decreasing until code was
eliminated, right?

Ham radio is an old hobby, with mostly older people using it. Older people
slow down as they age. Trying to tap out ANY speed code with arthritis or
carpal tunnel syndrome isn't going to work for that majority.
I re-considered renewing my license about 5 years ago. Today I know I can't
tap out 5 wpm. Forcing this outmoded relic of communication on an aging
generation is nonsense.
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Well now you cant take a propper Morse test even if you wanted to in the UK.
Now the amateur radio licence is free to renew online. If you want to play
with digital communication using very low bandwith how about PSK31? Anyway
I thought this old troll would be best posted in uk.radio.amateur

Andy

I believe 'ham' radio is dying, because there is only so many times you can
give
radio checks and tell others what kind of equipment you have. If I tune to a
ham
repeater on my scanner, I hear the same conversations I heard 10 years ago,
one
guy telling another one what type of radio he has connected to what kinda
antenna.
Every once in a while you'll hear someone announce the monthy meeting, or
some one
telling his wife he's caught in traffic and will be late getting home (
which he could have
done on a cell phone at 1/100th the cost, and not everyone would know he
wasn't home)

Ham radio is dying because its outdated, yes you can 'call across the
counrty' to another
'ham' for mere pennies ( once you buy the expensive equipment, put up a god
awful ugly
antenna, as big as your garage, and pass all the tests to allow you to do
it ) I can do the same
thing using a cell phone with No Test, No Huge antenna, and can call ANYONE
that happens
to have a phone and as a bonus... the whole world can't listen.

As far as being a hobby and 'fun', well maybe, but I hear more people on
ham radio talking
about the time they have in doing antenna swaps and maintance, that I just
can't even
imagine that being 'fun'.

Ham radio is much like the mail service, who actually sends a friend or
family a written letter
anymore ? you may get a birthday or christmas card with a 'note', you'll
get 'bills' and junk mail,
but when is the last time you either got or sent a long letter to a friend
or family? Newer technology
has rendered 'mail' obsolete, you have telephones, e-mail, instant
messangers, and FAX if you really
have to send a piece of paper, like a copy of a document.

Perhaps if they had dropped the 'code' requirements 30 years ago, they
would have picked up a lot
of new users, but as far as I can tell, most of the new HF class users have
just upgraded from their
'tech' status with very few NEW members actually jumping on the band wagon.


"deBaser" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:41:23 -0400, Al Klein wrote:

That's evidently why the number of hams kept decreasing until code was
eliminated, right?

Ham radio is an old hobby, with mostly older people using it. Older people
slow down as they age. Trying to tap out ANY speed code with arthritis or
carpal tunnel syndrome isn't going to work for that majority.
I re-considered renewing my license about 5 years ago. Today I know I
can't
tap out 5 wpm. Forcing this outmoded relic of communication on an aging
generation is nonsense.
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Well now you cant take a propper Morse test even if you wanted to in the
UK.
Now the amateur radio licence is free to renew online. If you want to
play
with digital communication using very low bandwith how about PSK31?
Anyway
I thought this old troll would be best posted in uk.radio.amateur

Andy

Back in 2001, Seattle had an earthquake (a small biggie- lots of damage) and
guess what, the cell phone system went down (up to 4 to 5 hours) and
landline phone system was trashed since everyone was calling either 911 or
their relatives, or what not.

BUT

Ham radio was alive and well, and we at the Western Washington Medical
Services group were able to maintain contact with the regions hospitals, and
blood banks, as well as other emergency services.

So, yes ham radio is maybe dying, but it is also a true and able way to
comminicate. Also note: when San Francisco had its earthquake, it was again
ham radio that got the word out to the world, since their cell phone systems
went down, and their landline system was in the same shape!
"labtech_one" wrote in message
...
I believe 'ham' radio is dying, because there is only so many times you
can
give
radio checks and tell others what kind of equipment you have. If I tune to
a
ham
repeater on my scanner, I hear the same conversations I heard 10 years
ago,
one
guy telling another one what type of radio he has connected to what kinda
antenna.
Every once in a while you'll hear someone announce the monthy meeting, or
some one
telling his wife he's caught in traffic and will be late getting home (
which he could have
done on a cell phone at 1/100th the cost, and not everyone would know he
wasn't home)

Ham radio is dying because its outdated, yes you can 'call across the
counrty' to another
'ham' for mere pennies ( once you buy the expensive equipment, put up a
god
awful ugly
antenna, as big as your garage, and pass all the tests to allow you to do
it ) I can do the same
thing using a cell phone with No Test, No Huge antenna, and can call
ANYONE
that happens
to have a phone and as a bonus... the whole world can't listen.

As far as being a hobby and 'fun', well maybe, but I hear more people on
ham radio talking
about the time they have in doing antenna swaps and maintance, that I just
can't even
imagine that being 'fun'.

Ham radio is much like the mail service, who actually sends a friend or
family a written letter
anymore ? you may get a birthday or christmas card with a 'note', you'll
get 'bills' and junk mail,
but when is the last time you either got or sent a long letter to a friend
or family? Newer technology
has rendered 'mail' obsolete, you have telephones, e-mail, instant
messangers, and FAX if you really
have to send a piece of paper, like a copy of a document.

Perhaps if they had dropped the 'code' requirements 30 years ago, they
would have picked up a lot
of new users, but as far as I can tell, most of the new HF class users
have
just upgraded from their
'tech' status with very few NEW members actually jumping on the band
wagon.


"deBaser" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:41:23 -0400, Al Klein
wrote:

That's evidently why the number of hams kept decreasing until code was
eliminated, right?

Ham radio is an old hobby, with mostly older people using it. Older
people
slow down as they age. Trying to tap out ANY speed code with arthritis
or
carpal tunnel syndrome isn't going to work for that majority.
I re-considered renewing my license about 5 years ago. Today I know I
can't
tap out 5 wpm. Forcing this outmoded relic of communication on an aging
generation is nonsense.
--
more pix @ http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html

Well now you cant take a propper Morse test even if you wanted to in the
UK.
Now the amateur radio licence is free to renew online. If you want to
play
with digital communication using very low bandwith how about PSK31?
Anyway
I thought this old troll would be best posted in uk.radio.amateur

Andy