Dear Telamon,

I absolutely agree with your assessment of some of the new people here
on this group. Who are they anyway? And why do at least some of them
feel the necessity to resort to vulgar language?

I suppose that if someone asked about a comparison of the Honda Civic,
the Toyota Corolla, and the Nissan Sentra on a group, there would be
some "clown" who would post that the Mercedes E-class is much better
"hands-down!"

The original question was for a comparison of SSB performance between
the Degen DE-1103 and the Sony ICF-SW7600GR (with a mention of a couple
of other small SW portables). Also the original poster said he was
interested in using a (potential) new receiver for MW broadcasts.

As I stated in my original post here, I do not own a Degen DE-1103. I
do own the Sony ICF-SW7600GR and its performance on SSB is very good
for a portable in its size and price class (that last should have gone
without saying!), at least in my opinion. (And I think I forgot to
mention that it is a superlative performer on MW as well.)

Last night, reception conditions were mediocre and the stations I could
hear (Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, and a few others) had
shows that were not of interest to me at that time. (I was feeling a
bit out of sorts.) So I decided to try the 80-meter Ham band. On 3933
kHz (around 0420 UTC) I heard a group of Hams talking and the signal
was very clear. Just for the heck of it, I turned off my AOR/Wellbrook
and turned on the Sony/AN-LP1. The signal was by no means as clear or
as strong as on the AOR, but it was intelligble, if not pleasant. On
the AOR the signal sounded like "straight" AM; on the Sony the signal
was obviously sideband. But then look at the difference in price!
You're absolutely right - it is unfair to compare radios in different
price classes especially in view of the obvious fact that radios in
different price (and size) classes have different purposes.

I think the Sony did all right! (Unfortunately the Hams were talking
about Heat Pumps, which is not one of my favorite subjects. So after my
little "experiment," I turned everything off and went to bed!)

I suppose there's no real way to keep some of the "nastier" people off
this group, such as H. Slate. As I'm sure you, Telamon, and many others
know here I do try to answer questions where I feel that I can be of
some help to someone. I've been an SWL for almost fifty years (of
course that doesn't always make my answers right) and while my
shortwave radio "collection" is by no means as extensive as many of the
people here, I do have a fair amount of experience using the ones I
have (and quite a few others as well). If my messages are unwanted by
the majority of "old-timers" here, well just let me know and there will
be no hard feelings.

I've been called a few names before (most notably by my wife) but this
is the first time I've been called a "shill."

Best,

Joe

Telamon wrote:
In article pan.2006.08.08.20.02.19.280000@Quetzalcoatl,
Bob Dobbs EC42 wrote:

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:26:29 +0000, Telamon wrote:

In article pan.2006.08.08.08.09.44.574000@Quetzalcoatl,
Bob Dobbs EC42 wrote:

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:48:53 +0000, Telamon wrote:

You are being a bit silly about this comparison. Sony
ICF-SW7600GR is about $150 and the Eton E1 is about $500, which
is 3.3 times the cost of the Sony.

Unless you go through your radios quickly, the difference in
initial cost can be amortized in a fraction of their useful
lifespan, plus you have a more entertaining set for all that time.

You can build a much better widget of any type by spending over 3
times the money on the fabrication cost. You have to compare radios
that cost about the same otherwise it is comparing apples to
oranges.

That's the crux of my point, that over extended time those spherical
objects become more alike and the sweeter taste outweighs the initial
cost.

Most people that have thought about it agree with this outlook.

I can only speak for myself and I'm certainly not 'most people'.

Why do you post here? Is it just to debate? I try to be nice and I'm
just disabused by a new poster to the news group. Well, chances are you
are not new to the news group just one of a small handful of nut cases
that reside here with a new handle so I'll dispense with the niceties
and just declare you completely unreasonable.

Now check this out - You can not compare radios that have a large cost
difference between them. This is not a debatable statement and you are a
fool if you think otherwise. You are obviously just Trolling for trouble.

I don't go through my radios quickly but that has not been a price
consideration for me. Generally, I have paid more money for
performance and features that cost more money to put into a radio.

But if you were buying on cost alone, you wouldn't have accumulated
the experience that better equipment provides.

That has nothing to do with the thread as is injecting the E1 into a
thread about radios $200.

There are no radios that you pay more money for just because of
owner status or looks of a radio.

I'd guess from outward signs that there are indeed folk who pay more
for the status and prestige that high costs connote than the
performance generally associated with it.

Yeah that and maybe the new plastic smell right?

Plonk

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Shill out, Joe...



"Joe Analssandrini" wrote in message
ups.com...

I've been called a few names before (most notably by my wife) but this
is the first time I've been called a "shill."

Best,
Joe

In article . com,
"Joe Analssandrini" wrote:

Telamon wrote:
In article pan.2006.08.08.20.02.19.280000@Quetzalcoatl,
Bob Dobbs EC42 wrote:

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 19:26:29 +0000, Telamon wrote:

In article pan.2006.08.08.08.09.44.574000@Quetzalcoatl,
Bob Dobbs EC42 wrote:

On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 03:48:53 +0000, Telamon wrote:

You are being a bit silly about this comparison. Sony
ICF-SW7600GR is about $150 and the Eton E1 is about $500,
which is 3.3 times the cost of the Sony.

Unless you go through your radios quickly, the difference in
initial cost can be amortized in a fraction of their useful
lifespan, plus you have a more entertaining set for all that
time.

You can build a much better widget of any type by spending over
3 times the money on the fabrication cost. You have to compare
radios that cost about the same otherwise it is comparing
apples to oranges.

That's the crux of my point, that over extended time those
spherical objects become more alike and the sweeter taste
outweighs the initial cost.

Most people that have thought about it agree with this outlook.

I can only speak for myself and I'm certainly not 'most people'.

Why do you post here? Is it just to debate? I try to be nice and
I'm just disabused by a new poster to the news group. Well, chances
are you are not new to the news group just one of a small handful
of nut cases that reside here with a new handle so I'll dispense
with the niceties and just declare you completely unreasonable.

Now check this out - You can not compare radios that have a large
cost difference between them. This is not a debatable statement and
you are a fool if you think otherwise. You are obviously just
Trolling for trouble.

I don't go through my radios quickly but that has not been a
price consideration for me. Generally, I have paid more money
for performance and features that cost more money to put into a
radio.

But if you were buying on cost alone, you wouldn't have
accumulated the experience that better equipment provides.

That has nothing to do with the thread as is injecting the E1 into
a thread about radios $200.

There are no radios that you pay more money for just because of
owner status or looks of a radio.

I'd guess from outward signs that there are indeed folk who pay
more for the status and prestige that high costs connote than the
performance generally associated with it.

Yeah that and maybe the new plastic smell right?

Plonk

Dear Telamon,

I absolutely agree with your assessment of some of the new people
here on this group. Who are they anyway? And why do at least some of
them feel the necessity to resort to vulgar language?

I suppose that if someone asked about a comparison of the Honda
Civic, the Toyota Corolla, and the Nissan Sentra on a group, there
would be some "clown" who would post that the Mercedes E-class is
much better "hands-down!"

This is a world wide public news group where individuals are supposed
to participate by posting news and information germane to the news
group. As a public resource some decide to abuse it for as many reasons
as there are people. Some are sociopaths or have defective
personalities where the people around them have shunned them. I suppose
this is another place for them to fail to be able to interact with
other people under a few simple rules. If you were to meet them in
person it would be for the last time as you would actively avoid them
in the future.

It could be that some psychologist is using us for guinea pigs testing
some theory of social interaction. Some of the posters might be on
drugs or be nut cases. Some people just like to play mind games on
others. Why? Maybe a form of control so they feel powerful? Who knows
what is really going on with some of the posters to the news group.

The original question was for a comparison of SSB performance between
the Degen DE-1103 and the Sony ICF-SW7600GR (with a mention of a
couple of other small SW portables). Also the original poster said he
was interested in using a (potential) new receiver for MW broadcasts.

As I stated in my original post here, I do not own a Degen DE-1103. I
do own the Sony ICF-SW7600GR and its performance on SSB is very good
for a portable in its size and price class (that last should have
gone without saying!), at least in my opinion. (And I think I forgot
to mention that it is a superlative performer on MW as well.)

Last night, reception conditions were mediocre and the stations I
could hear (Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, and a few
others) had shows that were not of interest to me at that time. (I
was feeling a bit out of sorts.) So I decided to try the 80-meter Ham
band. On 3933 kHz (around 0420 UTC) I heard a group of Hams talking
and the signal was very clear. Just for the heck of it, I turned off
my AOR/Wellbrook and turned on the Sony/AN-LP1. The signal was by no
means as clear or as strong as on the AOR, but it was intelligble, if
not pleasant. On the AOR the signal sounded like "straight" AM; on
the Sony the signal was obviously sideband. But then look at the
difference in price! You're absolutely right - it is unfair to
compare radios in different price classes especially in view of the
obvious fact that radios in different price (and size) classes have
different purposes.

Yesterday morning conditions were poor for me receiving stations across
the NA continent. The geomagnetic field was unsettled but it has been
that way in the past and Australia and NZ have come in just fine.

Some antennas work better than others depending on the time of day and
conditions. It is a good idea to have more than one kind of antenna
around as the best angle of reception varies.

I think the Sony did all right! (Unfortunately the Hams were talking
about Heat Pumps, which is not one of my favorite subjects. So after
my little "experiment," I turned everything off and went to bed!)

I find most ham conversations boring. That would change if some were my
friends and I was interested in their personal details but as strangers
talking about some thing that interests them is generally not
interesting. When I listen to hams I care about how well I receive them
and where they are located and maybe their equipment but that is about
it.

I suppose there's no real way to keep some of the "nastier" people
off this group, such as H. Slate. As I'm sure you, Telamon, and many
others know here I do try to answer questions where I feel that I can
be of some help to someone. I've been an SWL for almost fifty years
(of course that doesn't always make my answers right) and while my
shortwave radio "collection" is by no means as extensive as many of
the people here, I do have a fair amount of experience using the ones
I have (and quite a few others as well). If my messages are unwanted
by the majority of "old-timers" here, well just let me know and there
will be no hard feelings.

It's a public news group so all you can do is kill file the problem
people. There are a handful of trouble makers that change their handles
after a while when most people have kill filed them.

I've been called a few names before (most notably by my wife) but
this is the first time I've been called a "shill."

This is just some Trolling individual trying to cause trouble with you.
If this happened to you in person you would get away from them and
actively avoid them. Here some are under the delusion that you must
read what they post or you are "controlling" them.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon ) writes:

I think the Sony did all right! (Unfortunately the Hams were talking
about Heat Pumps, which is not one of my favorite subjects. So after
my little "experiment," I turned everything off and went to bed!)

I find most ham conversations boring. That would change if some were my
friends and I was interested in their personal details but as strangers
talking about some thing that interests them is generally not
interesting. When I listen to hams I care about how well I receive them
and where they are located and maybe their equipment but that is about
it.

Of course, one big difference is that amateur radio is a two-way
form of communication, with broadcasting specifically prohibited.
So listening to it is like overhearing someone on the bus having
a conversation with a friend, which generally is uninteresting unless
you're part of the conversation.

Broadcasting is to address those listeners at home, so if they aren't
talking to that audience, they aren't doing their job.

Just as with utility listening and number stations, listening to ham
radio is often for the sake of testing one's ability to receive a weak
signal or to run up a score of something, with the contents being
secondary.

Michael

If you dont want to start out spending a lot of money for a shortwave
radio,buy one of those forty something dollar Degen or Kaito shortwave
radios.Test it out,see how you like it.If later on,you want a more
expensive and perhaps better radio,check www.jr.com or Amazon for a
Sony 7600GR radio.Check eBay too.Be sure to check out the eBay sellers
ratings.
cuhulin

There are a few old elderly Hams in the Jackson metro area and elsewhere
in Mississippi I listen to once in a while with my Radio Shack Pro-91
150 channel scanner radio.They never use profane language or insult
anybody.There is no reason they would want to either because they are
adults and they are Southern gentlemen.

www.rigpix.com Radio Shack/Realistic Pro-91 I bought that radio for
$75.00 at the EZ Pawn pawn shop across the Pearl River in
Pearl,Mississippi about eight or nine years ago.I also own an ADi AR-147
radio (rigpix.com) I bought for two dollars at the Goodwill store (six
tenths of a mile South of my little doggy's couch) about two years
ago.The radio looks brand new.I haven't got around to checking it out
yet though.If it works ok,I wont talk on it because I dont have a
license.
cuhulin

Michael Black wrote:
Telamon ) writes:

I think the Sony did all right! (Unfortunately the Hams were talking
about Heat Pumps, which is not one of my favorite subjects. So after
my little "experiment," I turned everything off and went to bed!)

I find most ham conversations boring. That would change if some were my
friends and I was interested in their personal details but as strangers
talking about some thing that interests them is generally not
interesting. When I listen to hams I care about how well I receive them
and where they are located and maybe their equipment but that is about
it.

Of course, one big difference is that amateur radio is a two-way
form of communication, with broadcasting specifically prohibited.
So listening to it is like overhearing someone on the bus having
a conversation with a friend, which generally is uninteresting unless
you're part of the conversation.

Broadcasting is to address those listeners at home, so if they aren't
talking to that audience, they aren't doing their job.

Just as with utility listening and number stations, listening to ham
radio is often for the sake of testing one's ability to receive a weak
signal or to run up a score of something, with the contents being
secondary.

Michael

What you're saying makes sense, and I myself would have said the same
thing at one time. Surely, you'd think that commercial radio stations,
whose very survival depends on their ability to attract and retain
listeners, could offer up something more interesting to listen to than
your typical conversation between hams. However, at least in my
opinion, they do not.

Where FM is concerned...forget about it. It's such a wasteland now that
I sometimes forget it even exists. Commercial AM is better, but there's
a lot of junk there, too. So many long infomercials about human growth
hormone or whatever the latest variety of snake oil is, etc. I actually
find that that the conversations I find by tuning around the ham bands
at random are more interesting...even if it's just some guy talking
about his antenna, or his house repairs, or whatever. At least it's
real, and I can relate to it. Real people, real events and real
problems are just more interesting to me than the programming dreamt up
or purchased by the folks at commercial broadcasters.

I actually think this was one of the initial appeals of "reality TV".
The networks were producing so much garbage that someone realized they
could get better programming just by turning a camera on somewhere and
walking away. But of course, the temptation to improve upon "reality"
is irresistible, I guess, and what now goes under the name "reality TV"
is anything but real--shows like The Surreal Life and The Simple Life
with Paris Hilton--these shows have zilch to do with "reality".
Consequently, they stink.

Okay...I'm done!

Steve