Seeing-I-dawg wrote:
You pretty much nailed it. No antenna is ideal. The fun is finding one,
two, three... that work respectably with your gear, your particular RF
environment, and your listening goals. That could be anything from a
beverage to a rubber duck :-)

IM - yech! Outboard filter(s) to knock down the offending station(s)
perhaps?

Regarding longwires; Why? It will have peaks and valleys in reception
across the RF spectrum. Join the ends to make a horizontal loop and that
will disappear - linear response.

I respect Guy Atkins remarks regarding his dissappointment with the
Wellbrook 1530. I have never owned a loop of that size and type and have
always been apprehensive about trying it. Noise isn't a huge problem here.
If I can replace my 450 ohm ladder-line feed to my horizontal loop with coax
(using the ALA100 amp) I may be able to eliminate most of the remaining
noise and pick up a db or two (except I can no longer transmit into it).

I no longer am a DYI with electronics. I just don't have the time or
patience to gather the parts, solder the board and cross my fingers. If
someone sells an assembled Dallas amplifier I may bite.

I am really getting excited about the software defined radio Guy Atkins
uses. After listening to his sound bites on his SDR-1000 blog I have to
lock up the credit cards. I would really enjoy attending one of his
DXpeditions.

EOM

Guy Atkins is very lucky to live in what must be one of the quitest RF
environments
around. My home RF level isn't as bad as I had thought, I know see what
real
bad RFI is, but at that there is very little I can hear on a AOR7030+,
R8B, or a R2000.
The first 2 recivers do a much beter job in very crowded band
conditions with very strong
signlas next to weak ones that I am intereted in.

On a "remote" mountain top in eastern KY I enjoyed pushing the AOR to
the limits.
That quite location showed the difference between a great receiver and
a much more
modest (R2000) receiver.

Perversly better locations deserve better recveivers. Since the local
noise floor sets
the limit to our reception it makes sense but it does feel odd. I have
been busy trying
to eliminate, or at least reduce, any unwanted RF noise. Sadly while I
have had great
success at eliminating the RF noise emitted by/within our home. We got
rid of our
desk top PCs, tossed the TV and similar steps have reduced my noise
floor as much
as I can. Too bad I can;t convine my nieghbors to limit thier RFI. I
had hoped the
Wellbrook ALA 1530 would reduce noise from nearby homes, but either
the whole
lopp concept is flawed, which I believe, or my in location all the
noise is "far field" and
a loop won't help.

Terry

wrote
I had hoped the
Wellbrook ALA 1530 would reduce noise from nearby homes, but either
the whole
lopp concept is flawed, which I believe, or my in location all the
noise is "far field" and
a loop won't help.

Curious that Wellbrook states that the 1530 will operate best when it is
about 30ft away from your home and for best MW reception mounted near the
ground. It alegedly performs better on SW when mounted up high at the cost
of MW reception.

Where's that credit card!? LOL

In article . com,
wrote:

Snip

Guy Atkins is very lucky to live in what must be one of the quitest
RF environments around. My home RF level isn't as bad as I had
thought, I know see what real bad RFI is, but at that there is very
little I can hear on a AOR7030+, R8B, or a R2000. The first 2
recivers do a much beter job in very crowded band conditions with
very strong signlas next to weak ones that I am intereted in.

On a "remote" mountain top in eastern KY I enjoyed pushing the AOR to
the limits. That quite location showed the difference between a great
receiver and a much more modest (R2000) receiver.

Perversly better locations deserve better recveivers. Since the local
noise floor sets the limit to our reception it makes sense but it
does feel odd. I have been busy trying to eliminate, or at least
reduce, any unwanted RF noise. Sadly while I have had great success
at eliminating the RF noise emitted by/within our home. We got rid of
our desk top PCs, tossed the TV and similar steps have reduced my
noise floor as much as I can. Too bad I can;t convine my nieghbors to
limit thier RFI. I had hoped the Wellbrook ALA 1530 would reduce
noise from nearby homes, but either the whole lopp concept is flawed,
which I believe, or my in location all the noise is "far field" and a
loop won't help.

I would believe the latter. The "whole loop concept" is not flawed.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

wrote in message
ups.com...
Guy Atkins is very lucky to live in what must be one of the quitest RF
environments
around. My home RF level isn't as bad as I had thought, I know see what
real
bad RFI is, but at that there is very little I can hear on a AOR7030+,
R8B, or a R2000.

Yes, it's very quiet here in the Pacific NW, with the fewest "thunderstorm
days" of any place in the continental USA. In mid-winter, with a Western
Beverage antenna at dawn, aimed out over the Pacific Ocean, you'd swear your
receiver was defective, or the antenna broken. In these conditions,
extremely faint tropical band and foreign (TP) mediumwave signals have a
fighting chance to be heard (assuming a top-notch, low noise receiver like a
AR7030 or my current fave, the SDR-1000.

It was under these mid-winter, dawn enhancement conditions that I heard
tantalizing faint signals around 3174 kHz (variable) in the late 1990s,
which had all the clues of Indonesian "amatir" stations. Think: Indo college
kids back home on holiday or weekend breaks, playing non-stop Indo rock
music with flea-powered transmitters, no IDs, often distorted audio, no
official "RRI" news at the top of the hour, etc. I've heard enough of the
real RRI and RPD Indonesian stations to recognize the Indo amatir (pirate)
station. Similarly, I've logged very low power Australian x-band stations
such as Radio Brisvaani, the Hindi station on 1701 kHz (Brisbane,
Queensland). I'd never have a chance to hear this sort of DX, however, at
home in the suburban RF jungle near Seattle-Tacoma. These catches were on
coastal DXpeditions, under ideal conditions.

I do have pretty low noise levels of the RFI, hash-and-buzz sort at home,
due to the underground AC mains. The main problem are the dozen or so MW
stations registering S-9+40 to S-9+60 dB on the SDR's (calibrated) signal
meter. My local 1 kw'er, 1450 KSUH in Puyallup, is a bit over 1 mile from
home. When I had a 700 ft. Beverage antenna aimed at my Asian targets, the
antenna unfortunately was oriented right at KSUH, too. The signal on 1450
from that antenna registered -13 dBm, which is, I believe, around S-9+65 dB.
This is an example of what the trans-Pacific MW stations need to fight
through to be heard in a suburban location like this. So far, I'm finding
the Wellbrook ALA 100 on a rotator does just fine for snagging the foreign
MW DX that makes it through the RF jungle; a Beverage is no advantage.

73,

Guy Atkins
Puyallup, WA
www.sdr-1000.blogspot.com

Guy is so right about the joys of DXing in a very low noise environment,
such as the Pacific coast Grayland site. I takes a lot of research and
running around to find an "ideal" low noise DX site and on our crowded
planet they become harder and harder to find.

I found such a site in a remote part of our Atlantic coast,Seefontein, miles
from the nearest town and miles from the nearest powerline. It's just bliss
to have that phenomena that Guy describes: when the noise on the antenna's
is so low you start checking to see if in fact they are connected. It is
such a joy to hear stations thousand's of miles away waft in over the
airwaves as clear as a bell, yet the signal strength is so low it doesn't
even move your "S" meter. What a thrill!

That's why some of us serious DXer's travel long distances with considerable
effort in time and money to enjoy these most favourable DX conditions.

Try it = you'll love it..............
--
John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8 & ERGO software
Sony 7600D, GE SRIII, Redsun RP2100
BW XCR 30, Sangean 803A.
GE circa 50's radiogram
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop, POARDT Roelof mini-whip
http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

"Guy Atkins" wrote in message
. ..

Yes, it's very quiet here in the Pacific NW, with the fewest "thunderstorm
days" of any place in the continental USA. In mid-winter, with a Western
Beverage antenna at dawn, aimed out over the Pacific Ocean, you'd swear
your receiver was defective, or the antenna broken. In these conditions,
extremely faint tropical band and foreign (TP) mediumwave signals have a
fighting chance to be heard (assuming a top-notch, low noise receiver like
a AR7030 or my current fave, the SDR-1000.

It was under these mid-winter, dawn enhancement conditions that I heard
tantalizing faint signals around 3174 kHz (variable) in the late 1990s,
which had all the clues of Indonesian "amatir" stations. Think: Indo
college kids back home on holiday or weekend breaks, playing non-stop Indo
rock music with flea-powered transmitters, no IDs, often distorted audio,
no official "RRI" news at the top of the hour, etc. I've heard enough of
the real RRI and RPD Indonesian stations to recognize the Indo amatir
(pirate) station. Similarly, I've logged very low power Australian x-band
stations such as Radio Brisvaani, the Hindi station on 1701 kHz (Brisbane,
Queensland). I'd never have a chance to hear this sort of DX, however, at
home in the suburban RF jungle near Seattle-Tacoma. These catches were on
coastal DXpeditions, under ideal conditions.

I do have pretty low noise levels of the RFI, hash-and-buzz sort at home,
due to the underground AC mains. The main problem are the dozen or so MW
stations registering S-9+40 to S-9+60 dB on the SDR's (calibrated) signal
meter. My local 1 kw'er, 1450 KSUH in Puyallup, is a bit over 1 mile from
home. When I had a 700 ft. Beverage antenna aimed at my Asian targets, the
antenna unfortunately was oriented right at KSUH, too. The signal on 1450
from that antenna registered -13 dBm, which is, I believe, around S-9+65
dB. This is an example of what the trans-Pacific MW stations need to fight
through to be heard in a suburban location like this. So far, I'm finding
the Wellbrook ALA 100 on a rotator does just fine for snagging the foreign
MW DX that makes it through the RF jungle; a Beverage is no advantage.

73,

Guy Atkins
Puyallup, WA
www.sdr-1000.blogspot.com

John Plimmer wrote:
It's just bliss
to have that phenomena that Guy describes: when the noise on the antenna's
is so low you start checking to see if in fact they are connected. It is
such a joy to hear stations thousand's of miles away waft in over the
airwaves as clear as a bell, yet the signal strength is so low it doesn't
even move your "S" meter. What a thrill!


It's a pity these sorts of locations are so few and far between. In
most locations, atmospheric noise is significant *all by itself*.

I think it was Seein-I-Dawg who commented about the Wellbrook ALA-1530
being shielded....

As far as I can tell, having looked at their site several times,
Wellbrook makes no such claims and points to the loop configuration as
the reason why it rejects some near field RFI. This is also born out
by the fact that they also sell an Indoor version of the antenna which
is packaged in a sort of plastic hula hoop, rather than in Aluminum
tubing. Wellbrook does make a very nice preamp and I suspect that the
ALA-100 WILL outperform the ALA-1530 and the ALA-330s with 50 feet of
wire on it. (I currently have an ALA-1530 and hope to have an ALA-100
shortly so I'll let you know.)

Rob


Steve wrote:
John Plimmer wrote:
It's just bliss
to have that phenomena that Guy describes: when the noise on the antenna's
is so low you start checking to see if in fact they are connected. It is
such a joy to hear stations thousand's of miles away waft in over the
airwaves as clear as a bell, yet the signal strength is so low it doesn't
even move your "S" meter. What a thrill!


It's a pity these sorts of locations are so few and far between. In
most locations, atmospheric noise is significant *all by itself*.

Rob wrote:
I think it was Seein-I-Dawg who commented about the Wellbrook ALA-1530
being shielded....

As far as I can tell, having looked at their site several times,
Wellbrook makes no such claims and points to the loop configuration as
the reason why it rejects some near field RFI. This is also born out
by the fact that they also sell an Indoor version of the antenna which
is packaged in a sort of plastic hula hoop, rather than in Aluminum
tubing. Wellbrook does make a very nice preamp and I suspect that the
ALA-100 WILL outperform the ALA-1530 and the ALA-330s with 50 feet of
wire on it. (I currently have an ALA-1530 and hope to have an ALA-100
shortly so I'll let you know.)

Rob


Steve wrote:
John Plimmer wrote:
It's just bliss
to have that phenomena that Guy describes: when the noise on the antenna's
is so low you start checking to see if in fact they are connected. It is
such a joy to hear stations thousand's of miles away waft in over the
airwaves as clear as a bell, yet the signal strength is so low it doesn't
even move your "S" meter. What a thrill!


It's a pity these sorts of locations are so few and far between. In
most locations, atmospheric noise is significant *all by itself*.

The Wellbrook loops are not shielded. The exposed metal is the loop.

The 1530+ high bandwidth version looks ineresting. You could justify
the cost if you use it for FM broadcast. Otherwise, get the ALA 100 and
roll your own loop.

Well, judging from my ALA1530, which I have partially disassembled,
there is wire running inside the Aluminum so the aluminum is not the
loop. The indoor version doesn't have any aluminum on it either as far
as I can tell, just a plastic outer covering.

Rob


wrote:
The Wellbrook loops are not shielded. The exposed metal is the loop.

The 1530+ high bandwidth version looks ineresting. You could justify
the cost if you use it for FM broadcast. Otherwise, get the ALA 100 and
roll your own loop.

In article . com,
"Rob" wrote:

Steve wrote:
John Plimmer wrote:
It's just bliss to have that phenomena that Guy describes: when
the noise on the antenna's is so low you start checking to see if
in fact they are connected. It is such a joy to hear stations
thousand's of miles away waft in over the airwaves as clear as a
bell, yet the signal strength is so low it doesn't even move your
"S" meter. What a thrill!


It's a pity these sorts of locations are so few and far between. In
most locations, atmospheric noise is significant *all by itself*.

I think it was Seein-I-Dawg who commented about the Wellbrook ALA-1530
being shielded....

That was a mistake. That Troll usually posts off topic political crap.

As far as I can tell, having looked at their site several times,
Wellbrook makes no such claims and points to the loop configuration
as the reason why it rejects some near field RFI.

The loop configuration is a reason that the antenna design will be
helpful in reducing local interference.

This is also born out by the fact that they also sell an Indoor
version of the antenna which is packaged in a sort of plastic hula
hoop, rather than in Aluminum tubing.

You and I both do not know what is inside the plastic tubing. It might
be shielded or it may not.

Wellbrook does make a very nice preamp and I suspect that the ALA-100
WILL outperform the ALA-1530 and the ALA-330s with 50 feet of wire on
it. (I currently have an ALA-1530 and hope to have an ALA-100
shortly so I'll let you know.)

Externally the antenna design is good way to go but it would depend on
how it was executed.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California