"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:
...
Mike


Our watches and clocks all measure the spinning of the earth, one spin =
24 hours. Now that is all very nice and everything, and it does get me to
appointments on time, but it is NOT "real."

Of course it is real. The clock gets you to appointments "on time" for the
same reason that directions and maps get you to appointments "on spot".

Imagine just before the big bang, when all the matter in the universe
sprang forth from some sub-atomic particle sized piece into all "our
matter" now. And, imagine four old bearded men sitting there and
observing the big bang--what do the wrist watches on their arms measure?

Who knows? It doesn't really matter *what* they measure! But they
clearly are measuring *something*, or they wouldn't be wearing them, right?
That they have no concept of Earthly hours is irrelevent. Just like the
lengths of their beards are measuring *something*, even though they don't
know about inches or meters or any of our Earthly measurements of length.

As I said earlier, all of the measuring tools and terms we use to define the
4 dimensions are
purely arbitrary. What they are measuring, however, is very real. The
concepts of before, now and after are as real and universal as up, down,
left, right, forward and backward.

Perhaps the Big Bang happens in cycles, every 24 "hours" on their "watches".
As Einstein showed, time is relative to the velocity of the observer.

Mike

Mike wrote:
...

Our watches and clocks all measure the spinning of the earth, one spin
= 24 hours. Now that is all very nice and everything, and it does get
me to appointments on time, but it is NOT "real."

Of course it is real. The clock gets you to appointments "on time" for
the same reason that directions and maps get you to appointments "on spot".

Imagine just before the big bang, when all the matter in the universe
sprang forth from some sub-atomic particle sized piece into all "our
matter" now. And, imagine four old bearded men sitting there and
observing the big bang--what do the wrist watches on their arms measure?

Who knows? It doesn't really matter *what* they measure! But they
clearly are measuring *something*, or they wouldn't be wearing them,
right? That they have no concept of Earthly hours is irrelevent. Just
like the lengths of their beards are measuring *something*, even though
they don't know about inches or meters or any of our Earthly
measurements of length.

...
Mike




What our watches measure is "something", it could just be some
undiscovered quality/law of matter, and that is useful--my appointment
keeping stands.

However, when you start plugging these things into mathematical "laws"
and NOT caring EXACTLY what they are about, it is insane, now it is
useful--and one is best using such 'til better comes along ... BUT, you
NEVER forget you really DON'T KNOW or DON'T UNDERSTAND what is really
happening and are only substituting "magic numbers" so as to get some
type of usable results ...

Today there are many things we use without understanding them, this is
good, but only a fool says, "Don't worry about what is really going on,
this will get us where we are going." Because, without always searching
the truths, we will fail to make the new discoveries and start accepting
our "made up formulas" as reality.

There are many examples we need to look further, only the fools stand
saying we know it all, we cannot even state we absolutely know photons
exist! (however, allowing that they do gives us usable theory, for the
moment ...)

JS

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
What our watches measure is "something", it could just be some
undiscovered quality/law of matter, and that is useful--my appointment
keeping stands.

However, when you start plugging these things into mathematical "laws" and
NOT caring EXACTLY what they are about, it is insane, now it is
useful--and one is best using such 'til better comes along ... BUT, you
NEVER forget you really DON'T KNOW or DON'T UNDERSTAND what is really
happening and are only substituting "magic numbers" so as to get some type
of usable results ...

Well, that's the current state of physics, isn't it? We don't know what
electricity "really is" either, but that doesn't stop us from producing
"mathematical laws" that describe it's behavior. Electricity is "real"
even though we don't know what it "really is".

The same applies to gravity, and to spacetime.

Mike

Mike wrote:
...

Well, that's the current state of physics, isn't it? We don't know
what electricity "really is" either, but that doesn't stop us from
producing "mathematical laws" that describe it's behavior.
Electricity is "real" even though we don't know what it "really is".

The same applies to gravity, and to spacetime.

Mike


Yes Mike, that is pretty much the state of things, let us not leave it
there ...

Let's advance some theories, attempt some experiments (even if they are
DAMN WRONG!), some answers are bound to fall out of the tree.

But, let's not be afraid to question all which is.

JS