You're mostly correct, but it's not quite that simple.

Say you've got a radio for sale and you set a reasonable reserve to protect
your investment. In other words, below a certain price you're willing to
keep it and try again another day. Let's say that reserve is $200, and
let's also say that it's worth that, maybe more (your reserve is
reasonable).

For whatever reason (time of year, other listings of the same radio running
concurrently, whatever) interest is lower than expected and no one has yet
met your reserve. I come along and snipe it, and as the high bidder at $190
I have "won" the radio. However, I haven't met your reserve so no
transaction takes place. Everyone's time is wasted.

BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I would
probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the high bidder
that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me your reserve? It's
kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.



"Roadie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jan 31, 9:21 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
I think it's fair to say that most people here are fairly savvy when it
comes to eBay buying/selling, so let me throw out this question: What is
the value of keeping a reserve price secret?

When there's a radio I'm interested in that has a reserve, I always ask
the
seller what that reserve is. That way I know whether or not I'd be
wasting
my time watching it, and it may make a difference in how much I bid. So
if,
for example, you see a $400-450 radio but the guy says his reserve is
$800,
you don't waste your time. And likewise if he says his reserve is $425,
you
might bid the $425 even if $375 would make you the high bidder, so that
you
actually get the item instead of "Reserve not met" being the result. If
you know the reserve you can make the decision.

However, many sellers reply that they don't reveal their reserve.
What's
the point? Isn't the reserve just another way of saying "This item is up
for auction to the highest bidder, but here is the least I'll take for
it"?
What am I missing?

Jeff


Who cares what the reserve is - it is irrelevant to what you should
bid. You should know the value of the radio and what you maximum
price is. If you are interested in the item just bid your maximum and
get on with life. The proxy bidding system will bid yours and
everyone elses bid up. And I guaranteee you that the the person who
wants the radio the most will win because they will be the high
bidder.

BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I would
probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the high
bidder that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me your
reserve? It's kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.

Exactly why I won't bid at all if someone won't tell me a reserve... F 'em
if they wanna do mind games.

Rich

Unrevealed Source wrote:

BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I
would probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the
high bidder that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me
your reserve? It's kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.

Let me re-iterate a portion of my previous (and please note the last
paragraph):

I'm not sure why some people have such a hard-on against reserves.
Let me explain...

If you were selling something at a real, in-person swap fest, say you
were asking a 100 bucks for your item. Furthermore, you would
probably be willing to let them dicker you down to, oh, $95 or even
$90.

However, in the back of your mind, -known only to you-, the *absolute
minimum* price you would take (to keep from having to haul your item
back home) is $85. This $85 price in the back of your mind is
*exactly* the same as an eBay reserve; nothing sinister about it, no
plot, just a "safety net" to protect you, the seller, from having to
sell at a give-away price.

As to why people keep the reserve a "secret" is obvious--why tip your
hand by telling the absolute, rock-bottom price you would accept? It
is an auction, after all.

In your example above, your $200 wouldn't necessarily "guarantee that
you will actually win". Bidding -could- continue higher, depending on
the day of the week, the phase of the moon or whatever.

Looks like this "reserve" debate is like the Iraq war debate: no matter
what side you support, you are right!

I agree - I don't bother bidding either against a "secret" reserve. But my
original question was WHY people sometimes don't reveal it.

"Dorpmuller" wrote in message
. ..
BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I
would probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the
high bidder that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me your
reserve? It's kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.

Exactly why I won't bid at all if someone won't tell me a reserve... F 'em
if they wanna do mind games.

Rich

On Feb 1, 8:30 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
You're mostly correct, but it's not quite that simple.

Say you've got a radio for sale and you set a reasonable reserve to protect
your investment. In other words, below a certain price you're willing to
keep it and try again another day. Let's say that reserve is $200, and
let's also say that it's worth that, maybe more (your reserve is
reasonable).

For whatever reason (time of year, other listings of the same radio running
concurrently, whatever) interest is lower than expected and no one has yet
met your reserve. I come along and snipe it, and as the high bidder at $190
I have "won" the radio.

You have not won the auction nor the radio. If you did not meet the
reserve price you won nothing other than a gold star for your effort.

However, I haven't met your reserve so no
transaction takes place. Everyone's time is wasted.

You did not have sufficient interest in the radio to put in a winning
bid. If you wanted the radio you should have bid the maximum you
would pay and let the proxy system take care of incremental bids for
you. If you feel that placing bids is a waste of your time then you
should find some other form of entertainment.

Maybe the simplicity of proxy bidding makes it difficult to
understand. Lets say you see a Sony CRF320 with an undisclosed
reserve and you would pay no more than $200.00 Simply enter $200.00.
If you are the first bidder and your bid exceeds the reserve your bid
will be taken to the reserve and will not be increased until someone
else comes along with a higher bid. If the reserve is higher than
your bid then your bid will be no more than the minimum amount or your
maximmum bid depending on whhat other bidders do. Proxy bidding is
nothing more than an efficient way to make incremental bids.

For proxy bidding to work the buyer has to know what an item is worth
and what he is willing to pay for it.



BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I would
probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the high bidder
that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me your reserve? It's
kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.

There is nothing self defeating about a seller placing a reserve. The
seller is simply protecting his interests under the Ebay rules. And he
knows if he starts out with a low opening bid and a reserve it will
atttract a lot more bidding attention and possibly entice someone to
spend more than they would otherwise because they catch auction
fever. Proxy bidding allows the bidder to place one bid and not get
caught up in key pounding rounds of last minute sniping that will
likely result in someone paying more than they should.

If you as a potential buyer don't like bidding on reserve auctions
then I suggest that you look for ones where there is no reserve.


"Roadie" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jan 31, 9:21 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
I think it's fair to say that most people here are fairly savvy when it
comes to eBay buying/selling, so let me throw out this question: What is
the value of keeping a reserve price secret?

When there's a radio I'm interested in that has a reserve, I always ask
the
seller what that reserve is. That way I know whether or not I'd be
wasting
my time watching it, and it may make a difference in how much I bid. So
if,
for example, you see a $400-450 radio but the guy says his reserve is
$800,
you don't waste your time. And likewise if he says his reserve is $425,
you
might bid the $425 even if $375 would make you the high bidder, so that
you
actually get the item instead of "Reserve not met" being the result. If
you know the reserve you can make the decision.

However, many sellers reply that they don't reveal their reserve.
What's
the point? Isn't the reserve just another way of saying "This item is up
for auction to the highest bidder, but here is the least I'll take for
it"?
What am I missing?

Jeff

Who cares what the reserve is - it is irrelevant to what you should
bid. You should know the value of the radio and what you maximum
price is. If you are interested in the item just bid your maximum and
get on with life. The proxy bidding system will bid yours and
everyone elses bid up. And I guaranteee you that the the person who
wants the radio the most will win because they will be the high
bidder.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Incorrect. In order to win some (not all) auctions and also keep the
winning bid to a minimum, you must snipe. The simple-minded "just place
your highest bid and forget about it" is for amateurs or people that don't
care if they win or not.


"Roadie" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 1, 8:30 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
You're mostly correct, but it's not quite that simple.

Say you've got a radio for sale and you set a reasonable reserve to
protect
your investment. In other words, below a certain price you're willing to
keep it and try again another day. Let's say that reserve is $200, and
let's also say that it's worth that, maybe more (your reserve is
reasonable).

For whatever reason (time of year, other listings of the same radio
running
concurrently, whatever) interest is lower than expected and no one has
yet
met your reserve. I come along and snipe it, and as the high bidder at
$190
I have "won" the radio.

You have not won the auction nor the radio. If you did not meet the
reserve price you won nothing other than a gold star for your effort.

However, I haven't met your reserve so no
transaction takes place. Everyone's time is wasted.

You did not have sufficient interest in the radio to put in a winning
bid. If you wanted the radio you should have bid the maximum you
would pay and let the proxy system take care of incremental bids for
you. If you feel that placing bids is a waste of your time then you
should find some other form of entertainment.

Maybe the simplicity of proxy bidding makes it difficult to
understand. Lets say you see a Sony CRF320 with an undisclosed
reserve and you would pay no more than $200.00 Simply enter $200.00.
If you are the first bidder and your bid exceeds the reserve your bid
will be taken to the reserve and will not be increased until someone
else comes along with a higher bid. If the reserve is higher than
your bid then your bid will be no more than the minimum amount or your
maximmum bid depending on whhat other bidders do. Proxy bidding is
nothing more than an efficient way to make incremental bids.

For proxy bidding to work the buyer has to know what an item is worth
and what he is willing to pay for it.



BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I
would
probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the high
bidder
that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me your reserve?
It's
kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.

There is nothing self defeating about a seller placing a reserve. The
seller is simply protecting his interests under the Ebay rules. And he
knows if he starts out with a low opening bid and a reserve it will
atttract a lot more bidding attention and possibly entice someone to
spend more than they would otherwise because they catch auction
fever. Proxy bidding allows the bidder to place one bid and not get
caught up in key pounding rounds of last minute sniping that will
likely result in someone paying more than they should.

If you as a potential buyer don't like bidding on reserve auctions
then I suggest that you look for ones where there is no reserve.


"Roadie" wrote in message

oups.com...



On Jan 31, 9:21 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
I think it's fair to say that most people here are fairly savvy when
it
comes to eBay buying/selling, so let me throw out this question: What
is
the value of keeping a reserve price secret?

When there's a radio I'm interested in that has a reserve, I always
ask
the
seller what that reserve is. That way I know whether or not I'd be
wasting
my time watching it, and it may make a difference in how much I bid.
So
if,
for example, you see a $400-450 radio but the guy says his reserve is
$800,
you don't waste your time. And likewise if he says his reserve is
$425,
you
might bid the $425 even if $375 would make you the high bidder, so
that
you
actually get the item instead of "Reserve not met" being the result.
If
you know the reserve you can make the decision.

However, many sellers reply that they don't reveal their reserve.
What's
the point? Isn't the reserve just another way of saying "This item is
up
for auction to the highest bidder, but here is the least I'll take for
it"?
What am I missing?

Jeff

Who cares what the reserve is - it is irrelevant to what you should
bid. You should know the value of the radio and what you maximum
price is. If you are interested in the item just bid your maximum and
get on with life. The proxy bidding system will bid yours and
everyone elses bid up. And I guaranteee you that the the person who
wants the radio the most will win because they will be the high
bidder.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You are giving the perfect description of someone who really doesn't
know or care to know what the value of an item is. That person wants
that radio and will snipe to get it. He is a seller dream cause he
will come in with a premptive bid 10 secods before the auction close.
Heart pounding, hands sweating he bangs the enter key at the last
possible second so that he and he alone willl get that radio and the
price is secondary.

On Feb 2, 6:24 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
Incorrect. In order to win some (not all) auctions and also keep the
winning bid to a minimum, you must snipe. The simple-minded "just place
your highest bid and forget about it" is for amateurs or people that don't
care if they win or not.

"Roadie" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Feb 1, 8:30 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
You're mostly correct, but it's not quite that simple.

Say you've got a radio for sale and you set a reasonable reserve to
protect
your investment. In other words, below a certain price you're willing to
keep it and try again another day. Let's say that reserve is $200, and
let's also say that it's worth that, maybe more (your reserve is
reasonable).

For whatever reason (time of year, other listings of the same radio
running
concurrently, whatever) interest is lower than expected and no one has
yet
met your reserve. I come along and snipe it, and as the high bidder at
$190
I have "won" the radio.

You have not won the auction nor the radio. If you did not meet the
reserve price you won nothing other than a gold star for your effort.

However, I haven't met your reserve so no
transaction takes place. Everyone's time is wasted.

You did not have sufficient interest in the radio to put in a winning
bid. If you wanted the radio you should have bid the maximum you
would pay and let the proxy system take care of incremental bids for
you. If you feel that placing bids is a waste of your time then you
should find some other form of entertainment.

Maybe the simplicity of proxy bidding makes it difficult to
understand. Lets say you see a Sony CRF320 with an undisclosed
reserve and you would pay no more than $200.00 Simply enter $200.00.
If you are the first bidder and your bid exceeds the reserve your bid
will be taken to the reserve and will not be increased until someone
else comes along with a higher bid. If the reserve is higher than
your bid then your bid will be no more than the minimum amount or your
maximmum bid depending on whhat other bidders do. Proxy bidding is
nothing more than an efficient way to make incremental bids.

For proxy bidding to work the buyer has to know what an item is worth
and what he is willing to pay for it.

BUT, if I email you and ask "What's your reserve" and you tell me, I
would
probably bump my bid to $200 just to guarantee that if I am the high
bidder
that I will actually get it. Why wouldn't you tell me your reserve?
It's
kind of self-defeating to keep it a secret.

There is nothing self defeating about a seller placing a reserve. The
seller is simply protecting his interests under the Ebay rules. And he
knows if he starts out with a low opening bid and a reserve it will
atttract a lot more bidding attention and possibly entice someone to
spend more than they would otherwise because they catch auction
fever. Proxy bidding allows the bidder to place one bid and not get
caught up in key pounding rounds of last minute sniping that will
likely result in someone paying more than they should.

If you as a potential buyer don't like bidding on reserve auctions
then I suggest that you look for ones where there is no reserve.

"Roadie" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Jan 31, 9:21 pm, "Unrevealed Source"
wrote:
I think it's fair to say that most people here are fairly savvy when
it
comes to eBay buying/selling, so let me throw out this question: What
is
the value of keeping a reserve price secret?

When there's a radio I'm interested in that has a reserve, I always
ask
the
seller what that reserve is. That way I know whether or not I'd be
wasting
my time watching it, and it may make a difference in how much I bid.
So
if,
for example, you see a $400-450 radio but the guy says his reserve is
$800,
you don't waste your time. And likewise if he says his reserve is
$425,
you
might bid the $425 even if $375 would make you the high bidder, so
that
you
actually get the item instead of "Reserve not met" being the result.
If
you know the reserve you can make the decision.

However, many sellers reply that they don't reveal their reserve.
What's
the point? Isn't the reserve just another way of saying "This item is
up
for auction to the highest bidder, but here is the least I'll take for
it"?
What am I missing?

Jeff

Who cares what the reserve is - it is irrelevant to what you should
bid. You should know the value of the radio and what you maximum
price is. If you are interested in the item just bid your maximum and
get on with life. The proxy bidding system will bid yours and
everyone elses bid up. And I guaranteee you that the the person who
wants the radio the most will win because they will be the high
bidder.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Roadie wrote:
You are giving the perfect description of someone who really doesn't
know or care to know what the value of an item is. That person wants
that radio and will snipe to get it. He is a seller dream cause he
will come in with a premptive bid 10 secods before the auction
close. Heart pounding, hands sweating he bangs the enter key at the
last possible second so that he and he alone willl get that radio and
the price is secondary.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

To quote you:

That person wants that radio and will snipe to get it.

So why not? He wants it, he likes having it delivered to his front door,
it's worth it to him. If YOU want it badly enough, feel free to snipe,
bid high, whatever.

eBay prices are like water. They seek their own level. Nobody puts a gun
to anyone's head to force them to bid...

P.S.
Furthermore you say:

so that he and he alone willl get that radio

He and he alone? You and you alone? I miss your point. There is only one
item so, yes, only -one- person will get it.

Again folks, this is an *AUCTION*, not Wal-Mart. *High* bidder wins.
What else would you expect of an auction?

On Feb 2, 7:55 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"Roadie" wrote in message

oups.com...

You are giving the perfect description of someone who really doesn't
know or care to know what the value of an item is.

Value is subjective. It is based almost solely upon a persons desire to
have the item. For instance, a specific bit of origami is made from less
than a penny's worth of paper. However, if a person wants that bit of
origami very badly, they may wish to bid hundreds of dollars to get it. This
is that bit's value to that person, whereas to me it may not be worth as
much as the paper it was made from.

"True Market Value" is an artificial construct.

Well, sure you and I likely value items differently. But the point
remains that some of us know the value we assign to an item and others
do not. Those that snipe and otherwise get caught up in auction fever
bidding are more focused on getting the item than they are on what it
is worth.

On Feb 2, 8:07 pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
Roadie wrote:
You are giving the perfect description of someone who really doesn't
know or care to know what the value of an item is. That person wants
that radio and will snipe to get it. He is a seller dream cause he
will come in with a premptive bid 10 secods before the auction
close. Heart pounding, hands sweating he bangs the enter key at the
last possible second so that he and he alone willl get that radio and
the price is secondary.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

If snipers are concerned more about winning the auction than they are
about the price they paid, that's ok as long as they acknowlege it.
But for them to say they have found some secret strategy for
minimizing their costs and at the same time winning auctions by
sniping is largely self-delusional.



To quote you:

That person wants that radio and will snipe to get it.

So why not? He wants it, he likes having it delivered to his front door,
it's worth it to him. If YOU want it badly enough, feel free to snipe,
bid high, whatever.

And that's ok as long as the individual realizes that he is probably
spending a lot more money than he would have had he applied a little
self discipline by setting and sticking to an established price and
not getting caught up in auction fever.


eBay prices are like water. They seek their own level. Nobody puts a gun
to anyone's head to force them to bid...

P.S.
Furthermore you say:

so that he and he alone willl get that radio

He and he alone? You and you alone? I miss your point. There is only one
item so, yes, only -one- person will get it.

That is a point that some of us seem to forget. It really does not
matter when you enter your bid. It only matters that yours is the
highest entered before the auction closes. Period.


Again folks, this is an *AUCTION*, not Wal-Mart. *High* bidder wins.
What else would you expect of an auction?