On Aug 20, 6:41 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 01:17:50 -0700, RHF wrote:
Note - Most of the new HDTV Channels are UHF 14-83 and only
require the smaller UHF 'size' TV Antennas -but- these are also
more directional : Hence the Built-in-Rotor.

Most, but not all! In San Francisco, NBC (KNTV-11) is already on VHF
channel 12, and ABC will be moving to VHF channel 7 in 18 months, when
their analog vacates the channel.

In Sacramento, there are no VHF DTVs now, but on Transition Day PBS
(KVIE-6) and ABC (KXTV-10) will be moving to VHF channels 9 and 10
respectively.

Likewise in other cities.

Salespeople at "big box" stores will tell you you MUST buy a new HDTV
antenna for use with your new HDTV. The antennas they sell are nearly
always UHF-only. Do not expect to receive all your local stations if you
buy their special antenna. It may work now, but some of your channels may
disappear in 2009.

If the antenna you already have on your old analog set is working OK, it
will be fine for HDTV.


I'm using an HDTV antenna made by Terk, which gets both VHF and UHF
HD. It has a scary looking UHF antenna, then two rabbit ears for VHF.
When assembled, and with the whips down, it looks like the number 7.
There's a Philips HD antenna that has just the UHF element. For a
while, Radio Shack was selling an HD antenna that had two loops
mounted parallel to the table surface, unlike most antennas where the
loop is perpendicular. I have no idea if that was a UHF only antenna.

On Aug 20, 6:27 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...

DS,

Now that you have explained all that - this Joe Six-Pack
is going to sit-down and have a Beer ) ~ RHF

On Aug 20, 6:27 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

Yeah, I figured something like that. Tertiary stations skimp on lots
of stuff, since they don't have lots of cash.


channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...


Did you get this from a website? If you did, I'd like the url, since I
may be living in a different state on D Day.

I can't get HD channel 62 (analog 64). But it really doesn't matter,
since it's Telemundo (Spanish).

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:51:20 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

Yeah, I figured something like that. Tertiary stations skimp on lots
of stuff, since they don't have lots of cash.

An improper TVCT is theoretically illegal - the FCC regulations
incorporate the ATSC standard - but I suspect the Commission will settle
for the station being on the air at all and using a virtual channel number
that doesn't conflict with anyone else...

In any case, no extra equipment is necessary to do it right. It's just a
matter of properly setting up the equipment the station already has. Of
course, that does require a qualified engineer, which is usually more
expensive than better equipment.....

Did you get this from a website? If you did, I'd like the url, since I
may be living in a different state on D Day.

My own(grin).
http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/dtvfinal/dtvindex.htm
The data comes from an FCC spreadsheet.

I can't get HD channel 62 (analog 64). But it really doesn't matter,
since it's Telemundo (Spanish).

I think channel 62 (and 64) are on Mt. Diablo, quite a bit further from
Sacramento than the other stations.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:51:01 -0700, RHF wrote:
To the average TV/HDTV Viewer using Cable TV
or DirectTV will any of this matter ?

FCC figures do indicate roughly 20% of the audience nationally is still
using an antenna as their only source of TV. (this figure varies wildly
between markets) A considerably larger number of people have
cable/satellite on some TVs but also have some sets that aren't connected.

20% is definitely a minority, but it does reflect 60 million Americans!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:45:51 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
I'm using an HDTV antenna made by Terk, which gets both VHF and UHF
HD. It has a scary looking UHF antenna, then two rabbit ears for VHF.
When assembled, and with the whips down, it looks like the number 7.
There's a Philips HD antenna that has just the UHF element. For a
while, Radio Shack was selling an HD antenna that had two loops
mounted parallel to the table surface, unlike most antennas where the
loop is perpendicular. I have no idea if that was a UHF only antenna.

There's a Zenith antenna out there that's designed to work only on UHF but
people have found it's OK for channels 7-13 as well. Channels 2-6 are a
lost cause on that antenna, but there are very few DTV stations planning
on using those channels. (you should check before buying one though, and
make sure your city isn't one of the exceptions!)

In theory, the old UHF loops would always have worked better when bent
parallel to the table surface. All TV stations' signals have a
horizontally-polarized component - almost none (especially on UHF) have a
vertical component.

Experts are finding that the old-fashioned "bow-tie" antennas (with the
flat screen behind them) are the most effective DTV antennas. In theory
they're only good for UHF but people are reporting decent results on
channels 7-13 as well.

On Aug 21, 6:46 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:45:51 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
I'm using an HDTV antenna made by Terk, which gets both VHF and UHF
HD. It has a scary looking UHF antenna, then two rabbit ears for VHF.
When assembled, and with the whips down, it looks like the number 7.
There's a Philips HD antenna that has just the UHF element. For a
while, Radio Shack was selling an HD antenna that had two loops
mounted parallel to the table surface, unlike most antennas where the
loop is perpendicular. I have no idea if that was a UHF only antenna.

There's a Zenith antenna out there that's designed to work only on UHF but
people have found it's OK for channels 7-13 as well. Channels 2-6 are a
lost cause on that antenna, but there are very few DTV stations planning
on using those channels. (you should check before buying one though, and
make sure your city isn't one of the exceptions!)

In theory, the old UHF loops would always have worked better when bent
parallel to the table surface. All TV stations' signals have a
horizontally-polarized component - almost none (especially on UHF) have a
vertical component.

Experts are finding that the old-fashioned "bow-tie" antennas (with the
flat screen behind them) are the most effective DTV antennas. In theory
they're only good for UHF but people are reporting decent results on
channels 7-13 as well.

This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
Claims to have Coveage of Channels 2-79
HDTV ANTENNA = http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260150283040
A-Neutronics, Inc. Model# AV-891 - Specifications*
· Frequency Range: 40~860MHz
· TV CHANNELS: 2-79
· Antenna Height: ~21" width: ~16"
· Receiving: HDTV/UHF/VHF/FM
· Range: up to 50 Miles
(Estimated range, based on reception over flat and open terrain)
· CONNECTOR: 75 ohm "F"
· GAIN: VHF:32~34dB; UHF:34~36dB
· NOISE FIGU 7dB
· Power Supply: input AC110V 60Hz
· Turning Degree: ~360

This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo also claims
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ250155800238
Frequency : 45 - 860 MHz
Channels : VHF 2-13 UHF 21-69

NOTE - Both are Amplified with a Rotor

While the Non-Amplifier and Non-Rotor
4-Bay Bow-Tie Antennas are only rated for UHF
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260148015644
· Frequency Range : 470~862MHz
· TV CHANNELS : 14-69
-and- this 2-Bay Bow-Tie Antenna covers
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ230160696625
only UHF Channels 14-69

~ RHF
.
.
.. .




~ RHF

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:32:03 -0700, RHF wrote:
This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo
Claims to have Coveage of Channels 2-79
HDTV ANTENNA = http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ260150283040
A-Neutronics, Inc. Model# AV-891 - Specifications*
· Frequency Range: 40~860MHz
· TV CHANNELS: 2-79
· Antenna Height: ~21" width: ~16"
....
This HDTV Antenna-Rotor Combo also claims
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ250155800238
Frequency : 45 - 860 MHz
Channels : VHF 2-13 UHF 21-69

A quarter-wavelength on channel 2 is roughly 1.5m or about 60". Any
antenna whose largest dimension is 21" is going to be very much a
compromise on VHF.

"Up to 50 miles", kinda suggests that if the VHF station is operating from
a 2,000-foot mountain, you're on a hill too, there are no noisy
computers in your house, and the atmospherics are just right, you might
get a snowy picture. I would suggest that in "real life" 10-15 miles
might be a better estimate, at least for VHF.

I haven't checked in quite a few years, (before I got DirecTV) but I
guess I can still pick up Ameica One tv out of Greenville, Mississippi
on one of my tv sets that isn't hooked up to DirecTV.The picture was
snowy though because Greenville is about seventy miles North Northwest
of me, on the Mississippi River.I think America One tv is broadcast out
of Arlington,Texas and relayed to Greenville.Of course, when the big
HDTV switchover comes if Feburary 2009, I probally won't be able to pick
up America One tv.I don't want HDTV, SCREW the fcc!.
Local Jackson area tv stations I can pick up are, WLBT 3 NBC, WJTV 12
CBS, WAPT 3 ABC, WMPN 29 PBS, WRBJ 34 CW TV Services, WUFX 35 NNT TV
Services, WDBD 40 FOX.There is another tv station that might be
broadcasting in Jackson someday, WWJX, may be independent, owner is
Flinn Broadcasting.
cuhulin

Another tv station I almost forgot about is, RFD TV
www.devilfinder.com RFD TV Jackson Mississippi DirecTV

on channel 379.There is a Cattle Auction going on there right now.
cuhulin