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On Aug 18, 7:06 pm, American Insurgent wrote:

I live in Clovis, California (just outside Fresno), 180 miles from
Sacramento, and get hdtv on channels 3, 13, and 58 almost every day,
using a Channel Master 1160A antenna mounted with rotor on a 20-ft
mast. Some days I also get channels 10, 29, and 40 from Sacramento.
Reception is usually strong enough in the mornings and at night. I
have also, on occasion, received hdtv stations from the bay area, 200
miles from me.

I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up
in a tree and aimed it for San Francisco. We could get a fair picture in the
morning and evening, but nothing but snow during the day. Because of a
mountain intervening, we really didn't get much signal at all from Sacto.
Our best signal was from "Perfect 36".

On Aug 19, 3:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:


I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up

Paradise is well over 250 miles from Clovis/Fresno. Fresno is between
San Francisco and Los Angeles whereas Paradise is Near Chico, or even
closer to Magalia, California.

When I lived in Sacramento, I got analog channels from Chico, Redding,
Reno, San Francisco, San Jose, Salinas, Concord, and sometimes even
from Fresno. With the SAME antenna, I would expect to also get the
digital signals from those same stations.

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On Aug 19, 3:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:


I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi
up

Paradise is well over 250 miles from Clovis/Fresno. Fresno is between
San Francisco and Los Angeles whereas Paradise is Near Chico, or even
closer to Magalia, California.


Chalk it up to getting old. I confused Chico with Fresno (not a lot of
difference between the two, though. Both are like living in hell with a few
trees. Fresno is a few degrees hotter..

On Aug 19, 5:18 pm, wrote:
On Aug 19, 3:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:



I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up

Paradise is well over 250 miles from Clovis/Fresno. Fresno is between
San Francisco and Los Angeles whereas Paradise is Near Chico, or even
closer to Magalia, California.

When I lived in Sacramento, I got analog channels from Chico, Redding,
Reno, San Francisco, San Jose, Salinas, Concord, and sometimes even
from Fresno. With the SAME antenna, I would expect to also get the
digital signals from those same stations.

I have been to Paradise, CA -and- I have been to Hell . . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%2C_California

On Aug 19, 4:12 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
wrote in message

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On Aug 18, 7:06 pm, American Insurgent wrote:

I live in Clovis, California (just outside Fresno), 180 miles from
Sacramento, and get hdtv on channels 3, 13, and 58 almost every day,
using a Channel Master 1160A antenna mounted with rotor on a 20-ft
mast. Some days I also get channels 10, 29, and 40 from Sacramento.
Reception is usually strong enough in the mornings and at night. I
have also, on occasion, received hdtv stations from the bay area, 200
miles from me.

I used to live in Paradise, a few miles from you. We put a large UHF yagi up
in a tree and aimed it for San Francisco. We could get a fair picture in the
morning and evening, but nothing but snow during the day. Because of a
mountain intervening, we really didn't get much signal at all from Sacto.
Our best signal was from "Perfect 36".


You probably had a sunrise/sunset effect, if I call it something Ace
will scream at me so I'll just leave it at that. Channel 36 put out a
powerful signal for 20 years until the early 2000s. When I was a kid
in the 1980s a standard tabletop rabbit ears antenna with a loop would
pick it up quite easily in Roseville, 140 miles from San Jose. Even if
San Francisco stations weren't coming in, 36 would come in. Then
around five years ago they abruptly vanished. I suspect that the old
transmitter croaked and the station replaced it with a much less
muscular unit.

I always thought it was a shame that 36 had such crappy programming
for the signal they put out. They were an old fashioned independent
station-lots of old movies and cheap reruns. 36 had very little self-
produced programming. The self-produced local show had largely
disappeared from most TV (except PBS, and even they got most of their
stuff from WGBH) by 36's heyday. The advent of satellites and VCRs
meant that stations could fill airtime without resorting to producing
much of their own stuff.

It also meant that the stations could operate 24 hours, instead of
shutting down after the 11 pm news and going back on at 7 am. By the
late 80s stations were signing off only once a week for transmitter
maintenance. A few years after that, they perfected the science of
staying on while doing maintenance, and all TV became 24 hours. I used
to love staying up late in the summer (when there was no school) and
watching the stations sign off Sunday night for maintenance. By then
it was one of the few ways they could express themselves. Channel 40
in Sacramento had 2 minute opinion programs for a long time, until
people got too dumb to tell opinion from regular programming or to
recognize opinion when they saw it (what's this?), and the station was
rendered unable to express management's opinions.

By the way, I decided to manually enter EVERY SINGLE CHANNEL into the
TV to see what popped up, and got a couple surprises. Univision is on
channel 18, just like the list said, although weak. There's a
Christian station on HD Channel 48 that's not on the list. Apparently
it's the HD service of analog channel 29, which once ran a short lived
family programming network called Pax. Today, it's running a network
called Ion-on a mind boggling FOUR channels. One is Ion, one is
"qubo", apparently a Christian children's network, one is Ion Life,
and a fourth is "Worship", apparently Christian music videos. Channel
13 runs a second channel for sporting events.

Entering the analog channel into the box will cause the first
subchannel of the HD service of the analog station to pop up-IF you
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to
channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62. If you
look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of
disorientation until people adapt. But I'm the guy who was thrown for
a loop when CBS and ABC switched channels with each other in
Sacramento, so what do I know.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...

On Aug 20, 6:27 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...

DS,

Now that you have explained all that - this Joe Six-Pack
is going to sit-down and have a Beer ) ~ RHF

On Aug 20, 6:27 am, Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:49:56 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
have already entered the HD channel in. I got no signal on channel 29
until I manually went to HD channel 48. The Samsung box goes up to

Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

Yeah, I figured something like that. Tertiary stations skimp on lots
of stuff, since they don't have lots of cash.


channel 69, even though I read once that HD only went up to 62.

In the interim, DTV stations are possible on all 68 channels. The FCC
*tried* to avoid assigning interim channels above 51 (and especially above
59) but in some areas, like California, it simply wasn't possible.

I count only 17 interim DTV facilities above channel 59. However, three
of them are in Northern California. (and five in Los Angeles)

All of these go away in about 18 months. When the analog signals are shut
down in February 2009, all DTV stations above channel 51 will move to
lower channels. In most cases, that means their current analog channel
will be reactivated as digital. See below.

look at the HD channel list, it turns the order of stations that had
been accepted for 60 years on its head. There are very few VHF
channels anywhere, and in Sacramento, Univision is on channel 18 while
ABC has been exiled to channel 61. It's gonna result in a lot of

The current DTV channels are considered interim, for the transition
process. Many of them will change on Transition Day in February 2009.
Definitely ABC in Sacramento, because channel 61 will no longer be a valid
TV channel!

In Sacramento:
Channel 3: Interim 35, stays on 35.
Channel 6: Interim 53, moves to 9.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 30)
Channel 10: Interim 61, returns to 10.
Channel 13: Interim 25, stays on 25.
Channel 19: Interim 18, stays on 18.
Channel 29: Interim 48, stays on 48.
Channel 31: Interim 21, stays on 21.
Channel 40: Interim 55, returns to 40.
Channel 58: Interim 46, stays on 46.
Channel 64: Interim 62, moves to 26.
(after the SF analog station on that channel shuts down; SF will remain
on channel 27)

When you get up on the morning of February 18, 2009, you'll have to go
into your TV's setup menu and do another channel scan, to find your locals
on their new channels. You may have to do it more than once during that
week as I suspect some stations may not get moved to their new channels
quite on time...


Did you get this from a website? If you did, I'd like the url, since I
may be living in a different state on D Day.

I can't get HD channel 62 (analog 64). But it really doesn't matter,
since it's Telemundo (Spanish).

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:51:20 -0700, American Insurgent wrote:
Sounds like the station is programmed improperly and isn't sending a
proper "TVCT" ("Virtual Channel Table").

Yeah, I figured something like that. Tertiary stations skimp on lots
of stuff, since they don't have lots of cash.

An improper TVCT is theoretically illegal - the FCC regulations
incorporate the ATSC standard - but I suspect the Commission will settle
for the station being on the air at all and using a virtual channel number
that doesn't conflict with anyone else...

In any case, no extra equipment is necessary to do it right. It's just a
matter of properly setting up the equipment the station already has. Of
course, that does require a qualified engineer, which is usually more
expensive than better equipment.....

Did you get this from a website? If you did, I'd like the url, since I
may be living in a different state on D Day.

My own(grin).
http://www.w9wi.com/tvdb/dtvfinal/dtvindex.htm
The data comes from an FCC spreadsheet.

I can't get HD channel 62 (analog 64). But it really doesn't matter,
since it's Telemundo (Spanish).

I think channel 62 (and 64) are on Mt. Diablo, quite a bit further from
Sacramento than the other stations.