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HD radio won't just go away.
David Eduardo wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in message ... . And now, twice, in front of the group, he's promised to get his engineers out here to take signal strength measurements at my location to determine why I can't hear a local 50kw station, but immediately dropped all conversation about it. And that, whille none of your business, is due to the fact that Paul Easter, an talented and wonderful engineer, moved to a corporate position at Salem, and we are short handed in the middle of two transmitter moves. To date the only one who's bothered to investigate my reception issues, is me. :) Good for you. . And some blatant inconsistencies in his claims about agencies/sales. Your experiences of a decade or more ago have little to do with the current situation, where interactive media is far more attractive to advertising agencies than radio because there are more creative dollars to be made there. And his experience. These things make me suspect that, though, he's still the David we've all come to know and love, that he's getting low on the calm, educational patience he's showed a year ago, and is now running out of both patience, and appreciation of the intercourse. I'm out of patience with the people who insist that there is listening to distant skywave signals, when there is no such thing documented and with those who think AM is not on a horrible decline, with its main and majority format, news talk, moving to FM. And I'm out of patience with you, who think a radio station in 2007 can change the demos on a buy because he once saw a station changed on a buy. I spoke with the head or our naitonal rep about changing demos on a campaign, and she simply laughed. Yeah! She was laughing at you. Many do. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 2:35 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
I'm out of patience with the people who insist that there is listening to distant skywave signals, The only thing you're out of is credibility. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 1:38 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ... The only thing on my website that has changed in the last 4 years is the addition of a bunch of old Radex, Whites and Stevenson's magazines. The bio / history is essentially unchanged from when I cut and pasted it from my resume, about year 2000. It's even got the same spelling errors. Actually, Steve pointed out that wasn't true about a year ago. Steve is probably certifiably crazy. I take anything he says as being automatically untrue; This tells me that I must have a pretty good grip on reality. Your knowledge of radio sales is dated, stilted and inaccurate; I was wondering when that would finally come out. At least my knowledge is based on 45 years of active experience. Mine on 48. And the last agency I visited was Friday, and its accounts include McDonalds, among others. Have a good evening, David. You've proven, by your own words, your own obfuscations that just about everything said by Steve is true. And to me, you're just another arrogant S.O.B who can't look beyond his office to realize that everyone around him is thinking the same thing: No, only the nutjobs like dxAss and Telamon and Steve refuse to realize how radio is used today, and the changes the industry has to make to survive... and that said survival will likely not include AM in the long run. I realize that you use radio as a flimsy and ultimately temporary barrier to the growth of internet radio. Period. You're the one living in the past, Tardo. The fact is, I speak with real listeners every week, Yes, but the listeners in your head don't count. and have a pretty good idea what they want today, based on tens of thousands of yearly interviews. Here, there are some who seem to have an intimate relationship with their TenTec and have no idea what real people do, and how stations today have to serve them. If you believe this, you wouldn't waste your time here. Period. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 1:43 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in ... David Eduardo wrote: You can't have it both ways, David. You can't insist that Radio is healthier than ever, and then claim your worry is about the success of terrestrial radio against alternatives. But I do not claim that. Radio is in slow revenue growth mode, and this year may be no-growth (although due to automotive and mortgage / housing crisis situations) so it is critical to keep the existing audience base, which the PPPM shows to be a 96% reach of all 6+ Americans. No, radio isn't in slow growth mode. You're just in talk trash mode. You can't have it both ways, David. You can't claim that there are too many signals to be profitable, and then solve the problem with more options. It is rational to offer more formats on the good facilities via HD2, although the losers will be the rimshots and AMs. This will allow the listeners to pick free, terrestrial radio with more options. It's the same reason stores open branches... when I have to drive 15 miles to Bed Bath and Beyond, I pick the Linens and Things that is 3 miles away, but if there is a new BBB at equal distance, I will remain loyal to that chain. The total market sales of BBB will be divided, but they keep my dollars... Good luck stopping the internet, Don Quixote. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 1:47 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message ... I think he believes his own noise and no he can't provide the link because what he claims doesn't exist. At least not yet. The info provided to iBiquity's owners is not public, so I am not giving you a link. You will simply have to hold your water until Samsung ships low power, lower cost chips in 2008. Most lies have a kernel of truth in them so they are believable. All I know is every time a take a poke at what he posts the stick goes right through the one layer of the "story" he tells. All that he posts seem very illusionary in nature. Nothing is like your insistence that listeners will put up with a bad AM signal and listen, despite radio audience measurements that are universally accepted showing no such thing occurs. And of course, if what you say is true, listeners would be perfectly content listening to static so long as they can heard it in HD quality. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 1:51 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , David wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo" wrote: I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough market, you fool. I think what happened was that they pretty much sold one to everybody who wanted one over the series' extremely long run. Probably not the case. My guess is the profit margin was to thin and they wanted to spend their time on more profitable product. There are many older technology type components that would continue to get more expensive with time and they would need to redesign it just to keep costs down. I noticed the price on a R8B kept going up the last few years they made it. With the Asian competition and the engineering hours needed probably tipped the scales in favor of dropping it. Drake would probably be asking at $2K to $2.5K for an R8B if they were still making it today. Or, the simple answer: there is a huge decline in the number of SW stations, and also in SW listeners. Domestic SW, the nicest DX, is all but disappearing and the quality broadcasters are reducing schedules or suspending service.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Don't worry Tardo. Wimax is going to fix your sorry ass for good. Lol. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 2:35 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
When the responses I get are idiotic, I react as one does to an idiot. Umm....no, you react as an idiot. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 2:41 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Eric F. Richards" wrote in messagenews:dhguf3d0v58pt6igd718rd1l644plch66b@4ax .com... Steve wrote: Sorry Tardo, but you'll never stop the internet or internet radio. He (or those who think like him) can destroy conventional radio, and where it is useful is in times of emergency, such as 9/11 or when a major river-crossing bridge suddenly ceases to exist. And an FM can not provide the needed service in the Minneapolis case? Or did the bridge extend across the entire Great Plains. WWL was one of the really lucky stations, as it had been hardened. Nearly nowhere on the Gulf Coast or FL is there a station that sould survive what WWL went through. The first to go in a hurricane are usually AMs, as the sites tend to be low and damp. FMs with backups on buildings are the most robust today. I have been through a bunch of big hurricanes while in PR, and the AMs never stayed on.... the FMs did. For a commuter, all that chit-chat between the musical pieces or the news stories is very useful. And an FM can not do that? FMs are highly viable still; with few exceptions, AMs are not. Wimax will take care of that. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 3:04 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message ups.com... Since most 'folks' here are over 50 or around 50 : No Body Here Listens To You - d'Eduardo ! ~ RHF You just pointed out something that the engineer who gave a radio club a tour a few years ago mentioned.... there are no young DXers any more. That's right. They're all listening to internet radio now. I'm sure some of it is that there is no appeal of AM at all to young people, whether they be teens or young adults, so they would not discover AM skip in any case, But there has to be more to this than just what is on the radio. A parallel would be the number of people who in the mid to late 80's into the 90's built their own computers. There were parts places all over, magazines filled with ads for cases and fans.... now there is nearly nothing. Kinda like people who who are wanting to stick with out-of-date broadcast technologies, like IBOC. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 3:16 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- No, only the nutjobs like dxAss and Telamon and Steve refuse to realize how radio is used today, and the changes the industry has to make to survive... and that said survival will likely not include AM in the long run. Oh I see I'm a nut job and not a listener. You don't get much right do you. How do you expect to survive when you are so confused. You are not a "typical" listener by any means. The term "broad" in broadcasting is there for a reason, and radio can not nor has it ever been able to serve very tiny niche listener groups. But I think you are off the deep end because of your denial of ratings, inability to see that if there is no listening of conseuence beyond a certain signal intensity, there must be a truth there, and your idea that knowing wave and propagation theory is somehow necessary to understanding that listeners don't tune to weak signals. The fact is, I speak with real listeners every week, and have a pretty good idea what they want today, based on tens of thousands of yearly interviews. Here, there are some who seem to have an intimate relationship with their TenTec and have no idea what real people do, and how stations today have to serve them. You seem to have a real problem with the fact that I have an RX340. Sounds like jealousy to me. No, I think anything over the price of a Drake or AOR is the equivalent of buying a Bentley. Nice if you can afford it, but not worth the extra $200 k over a BMW or Benz. I am not saying it is a waste of money if you are very rich, but I sure would not buy one. My real point is that even in the DX community such a radio is rare. Among listeners to commercial stations, so rare as to be freaky. And I'm not a real listener. Funny man. No, you are not. You are way to into the subject, albeit woefully misinformed, to be a "real" listener. Real listeners seldom remember call letters (unless they are over 50) and round dial positions and don't know station locations or slogans half the time. Radio is an accompanyment to other activities, and used like a utility. Well Bozo. I am a listener and I know what I want and it's not a serving of your BS. You might as well give up, as you are not getting what you want from terrestrial radio. I'm surprised you even engage in off air reception, anyway. Ratings wise, radio geeks are like contest pigs... very noisy, but they contribute nothing to ratings or our livelihood. The only thing that would demonstrate that anyone in this group is off the deep end is their having even the slightest inclination to believe you. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 3:19 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Eric F. Richards" wrote in messagenews:rsiuf3hvji3vahsfoik55m05b39ko3e71i@4ax .com... "David Eduardo" wrote: And an FM can not provide the needed service in the Minneapolis case? [...] FMs are highly viable still; with few exceptions, AMs are not. People listened for content. You and your buddies at iBiquity have destroyed the quality -- what there was -- of the remaining content. Most people are now listening to their digial audio players, not to the FMs. They won't get the news. How has iBiquity destroyed the quality of FM? There is no degradation of the FM analog signal to add HD, and saying so is an exaggeration or a lie. Most people, as in 96% of them, are listening to the radio each week.... same as 1965 when Arbiytron began. Good luck stopping the internet, Tardo. You have a lot of work to do. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:48:48 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote: none of us cares about the 0.3% of listening to out of market signals, by the way. You...don't...say... |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 20:57:02 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote: "David" wrote in message .. . Anybody who listens to AM radio at night around here is likely DXing. I just ran a multi-book report on your area, called LA / NNE, and found that less than 10% of all radio listening by 18-54 year olds is to AM. #1 and #2 stations are KLVE and KIIS, both Wilson FMs. Mount Wilson doesn't come in where I live. I can get KROQ, KYSR, KCRW and KCSN. Oh yeah, and a country station from Oxnard. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:28:28 GMT, Telamon
wrote: In article , David wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo" wrote: I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough market, you fool. Great radio. I'm listening to Wayne Resnik on mine, via a 10" RCA Tolex speaker box older than I am. Yuk. That guy is a pervert from the word go. A pervert? |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:51:31 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote: Or, the simple answer: there is a huge decline in the number of SW stations, and also in SW listeners. Domestic SW, the nicest DX, is all but disappearing and the quality broadcasters are reducing schedules or suspending service. It's a quality receiver extremely well suited for Medium wave listening. Next solar max (2010?) it'll be pulling in the whole world like locals on HF. |
HD radio won't just go away.
Steve wrote: On Sep 30, 1:43 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... David Eduardo wrote: You can't have it both ways, David. You can't insist that Radio is healthier than ever, and then claim your worry is about the success of terrestrial radio against alternatives. But I do not claim that. Radio is in slow revenue growth mode, and this year may be no-growth (although due to automotive and mortgage / housing crisis situations) so it is critical to keep the existing audience base, which the PPPM shows to be a 96% reach of all 6+ Americans. No, radio isn't in slow growth mode. You're just in talk trash mode. I sense a lot of animosity against Eduardo, but I think he has a valid point about the viability of multiple formats. The Baltimore AOR station has added sub-channels for Classic Rock and Indie Rock, which is just great for fans of the "rock" genre. Now they can hear music that they might otherwise not be able to hear. They have more choice. I know. You're going to say, "But it's not profitable". Okay well apparently the station manager disagree with you (which is why he's now programming 3 channels for his station). BUT even if we assume you're correct and it's not profitable..... so what? A station can just as easily broadcast *1* channel at high-quality 300 kbps. The HD Radio standard is flexible. |
HD radio won't just go away.
David Eduardo wrote: "Eric F. Richards" wrote in message People listened for content. You and your buddies at iBiquity have destroyed the quality -- what there was -- of the remaining content. Most people are now listening to their digial audio players, not to the FMs. They won't get the news. How has iBiquity destroyed the quality of FM? There is no degradation of the FM analog signal to add HD, and saying so is an exaggeration or a lie. I'd call it a "lie". I still listen to FM, driving across the country on business trips, and I hear absolutely NO degradation in the signal. (I wouldn't even know HD exists, if it weren't for the ads.) |
HD radio won't just go away.
Steve wrote: How has iBiquity destroyed the quality of FM? There is no degradation of the FM analog signal to add HD, and saying so is an exaggeration or a lie. Most people, as in 96% of them, are listening to the radio each week.... same as 1965 when Arbitron began. Good luck stopping the internet, Tardo. You have a lot of work to do. There's no need. The internet and tradional broadcast radio/tv can coexist. |
HD radio won't just go away.
David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" I'm sorry, I fail to see the logic of your argument. Try again. Let's say in Anytown that there are 24 formats that could get over about a 1 share.... in other words, the percentage of listening that would get advertisers results based on enough listeners hearing the message. But Anytown has only 12 FM signals that do a decent job of covering the market. So there are 12 viable formats that are not being done in Anytown, formats that would be salable, listenable and useful. So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on Eminently logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. The Baltimore station has split into 3 sub-channels: - AOR - Classic Rock - Indie Rock ......thus giving listeners more options, more variety, more music. It's similar to what's been happening to Cable TV the last ten years, slowly but surely expanding from ~50 channels to ~200 channels. (And profiting.) |
HD radio won't just go away.
SFTV_troy wrote:
Eminently logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. The Baltimore station has split into 3 sub-channels: - AOR - Classic Rock - Indie Rock So you've given up any pretense of being an actual user and are outing yourself as a shill? Most users wouldn't feel the need to change their alias within 24 hours of first appearing on a mailing list unlesss they were actively working to get around people's kill filters. -- Eric F. Richards, "It's the Din of iBiquity." -- Frank Dresser |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 11:44 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
David Eduardo wrote: "Telamon" I'm sorry, I fail to see the logic of your argument. Try again. Let's say in Anytown that there are 24 formats that could get over about a 1 share.... in other words, the percentage of listening that would get advertisers results based on enough listeners hearing the message. But Anytown has only 12 FM signals that do a decent job of covering the market. So there are 12 viable formats that are not being done in Anytown, formats that would be salable, listenable and useful. So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on Eminently logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. The Baltimore station has split into 3 sub-channels: - AOR - Classic Rock - Indie Rock A puny set of choices indeed compared to what internet radio yields. .....thus giving listeners more options, more variety, more music. It's similar to what's been happening to Cable TV the last ten years, slowly but surely expanding from ~50 channels to ~200 channels. (And profiting.) A mere hiccup compared to what internet radio offers. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 11:35 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
Steve wrote: How has iBiquity destroyed the quality of FM? There is no degradation of the FM analog signal to add HD, and saying so is an exaggeration or a lie. Most people, as in 96% of them, are listening to the radio each week.... same as 1965 when Arbitron began. Good luck stopping the internet, Tardo. You have a lot of work to do. There's no need. The internet and tradional broadcast radio/tv can coexist. Internet radio will eliminate the need for outdated modes of broadcasting. You can't fight progress. |
HD radio won't just go away.
Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy" wrote in message ps.com... Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No. Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....) No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of unavailability of product? Ever hear of CHOICE? Hi Brenda, Yeah just 5 seconds ago when I read your post. ;-) Although it's sometimes painful to have to abandon your old record player and upgrade to CD, I think it's worthwhile. You get better sound. (Of course, you don't have to abandon records; there are still turntables out there.) Me, I'm stuck in the middle of this HDTV transition. I'm recording HDTV with a vcr, which is totally inadequate for the task, but I'm still glad the transition was made, because HDTV looks much, much better than analog. I have no desire to take a step backwards to analog. Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not take a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby) Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a teenager. some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations that they were previously easily able to receive) The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via streaming. to larger still (the obsoleting of literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables), analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.). Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient technologies to faster, economical technologies. BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's not been wasted. And has anyone considered the long term ecological repercussions of having to dispose of all these millions of now useless devices? Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic wrap, and containers. Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves. Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that demand (no room to add stations). You mention digital satellite radio. That's fine, and I wouldn't mind giving it a try.. but hey, satellite radio doesn't affect my ability to listen to any of hundreds or more terrestrial analog stations whenever I choose. IBOC terrestrial radios DOES! No it doesn't. Just type in your favorite radio station's call letters.com, and you can hear them over the internet. (If you can't find your station, I'd be happy to help you locate its dot-com location.) Oh and you can try free XM by going he radioaol.com - That's what I listen to during work (sometimes). If you want to listen to digital radio, then get yourself an XM or Sirius radio and listen to your heart's content I don't want to pay $150 a year for radio. I like the free over-the- air kind, but I want more stations. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 11:23 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
Steve wrote: On Sep 30, 1:43 am, "David Eduardo" wrote: "D Peter Maus" wrote in ... David Eduardo wrote: You can't have it both ways, David. You can't insist that Radio is healthier than ever, and then claim your worry is about the success of terrestrial radio against alternatives. But I do not claim that. Radio is in slow revenue growth mode, and this year may be no-growth (although due to automotive and mortgage / housing crisis situations) so it is critical to keep the existing audience base, which the PPPM shows to be a 96% reach of all 6+ Americans. No, radio isn't in slow growth mode. You're just in talk trash mode. I sense a lot of animosity against Eduardo, but I think he has a valid point about the viability of multiple formats. The Baltimore AOR station has added sub-channels for Classic Rock and Indie Rock, which is just great for fans of the "rock" genre. Now they can hear music that they might otherwise not be able to hear. They have more choice. I know. You're going to say, "But it's not profitable". Okay well apparently the station manager disagree with you (which is why he's now programming 3 channels for his station). BUT even if we assume you're correct and it's not profitable..... so what? A station can just as easily broadcast *1* channel at high-quality 300 kbps. The HD Radio standard is flexible.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Three channels? Have you ever looked into what's available on the internet. This isn't 1950 anymore. |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sep 30, 12:34 pm, SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote: "SFTV_troy" wrote in message ups.com... Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No. Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....) No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of unavailability of product? Ever hear of CHOICE? Yes, It's what has driven me to internet radio. Hi Brenda, Yeah just 5 seconds ago when I read your post. ;-) Although it's sometimes painful to have to abandon your old record player and upgrade to CD, I think it's worthwhile. You get better sound. (Of course, you don't have to abandon records; there are still turntables out there.) Yes, but better sound is of little value when combined with **** poor programming. Me, I'm stuck in the middle of this HDTV transition. I'm recording HDTV with a vcr, which is totally inadequate for the task, but I'm still glad the transition was made, because HDTV looks much, much better than analog. I have no desire to take a step backwards to analog. Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not take a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby) Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a teenager. That's right, you can hear it all on the internet. But wait, what do we need all of these HD radios for then? some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations that they were previously easily able to receive) The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via streaming. to larger still (the obsoleting of literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables), analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.). Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient technologies to faster, economical technologies. That's what I keep telling all the HD radio proponents, but they just clink to their little digital horse drawn carriages. Time to let go of the past and drive on the internet autobahn. BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's not been wasted. And has anyone considered the long term ecological repercussions of having to dispose of all these millions of now useless devices? Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic wrap, and containers. Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves. Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that demand (no room to add stations). Yes, this is also driving people to internet radio. You mention digital satellite radio. That's fine, and I wouldn't mind giving it a try.. but hey, satellite radio doesn't affect my ability to listen to any of hundreds or more terrestrial analog stations whenever I choose. IBOC terrestrial radios DOES! No it doesn't. Just type in your favorite radio station's call letters.com, and you can hear them over the internet. (If you can't find your station, I'd be happy to help you locate its dot-com location.) Precisely! Looks like you're catching on! Oh and you can try free XM by going he radioaol.com - That's what I listen to during work (sometimes). If you want to listen to digital radio, then get yourself an XM or Sirius radio and listen to your heart's content I don't want to pay $150 a year for radio. I like the free over-the- air kind, but I want more stations. Yeah, that's why internet radio is the future. Cheaper than satellite, thousands of more choices than HD. Progress feels good. Real good. |
HD radio won't just go away.
SFTV_troy wrote: Brenda Ann wrote: "SFTV_troy" wrote in message ps.com... Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No. Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....) No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of unavailability of product? Ever hear of CHOICE? Hi Brenda, Yeah just 5 seconds ago when I read your post. ;-) Although it's sometimes painful to have to abandon your old record player and upgrade to CD, I think it's worthwhile. You get better sound. (Of course, you don't have to abandon records; there are still turntables out there.) Me, I'm stuck in the middle of this HDTV transition. I'm recording HDTV with a vcr, which is totally inadequate for the task, but I'm still glad the transition was made, because HDTV looks much, much better than analog. I have no desire to take a step backwards to analog. Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not take a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby) Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a teenager. Uh, that's NOT DX'ing, no matter what the pathological David F. Gleason might have you believe. |
HD radio won't just go away.
RHF wrote: On Sep 29, 3:31 pm, SFTV_troy wrote: wrote: SFTV_troy wrote: With digital the FM band would effectively triple or even quadruple the number of channels on the dial. (Alternatively Classical FM stations could boost the sound from 2 channel stereo to 5.1 surround.) Do you understand the consequences of what you propose? Apparently you do not. - No, because I can not read your mind. - Please explain the consequences. That's An Evasive Answer - Please Answer The Question. Ahhh, you're taking the "arrogant position" where you presume, "Troy is a ****ing idiot" and "I'm smarter than Troy", therefore "I'll talk down to him like he's a worthless worm." How rude and unfriendly. Turn in an Analog AM/MW Radio and tune every 10 kHz from 530 kHz to 1710 kHz and Listen to what you hear on each and every 10 kHz Radio Station Channel : That Buzz Noise Hash that was not Yes I am aware of that problem. (Although I'm still able to hear Radio Disney just fine on the AM.) The solution is simple for someone like yourself who has an internet connection: call letters.com - listen online. |
HD radio won't just go away.
RHF wrote: I want to see FM upgraded with three to four times more programs to choose from. SFTV_troy are you on d'Eduardo's Pay Roll ? -or- Work for any of the Companies that Employ Him ? -or- Work for a Radio Station using his Programming ? Nope. I'm an electrical engineer who designs computer boards and circuits. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: You have a mistaken impression of radio audience measurement. Snip You misrepresent the facts to support your arguments as needed. You tell me I don't hear the stations I listen to because they are so weak as to be DX and nobody would spend time listening to them. You are full of it. You are, as I mentioned previously, the kind of listener radio stations are hard put to serve. You mentioned already that you are not satisfied with your local stations (and your local stations are those licensed to Ventura County) and prefer to listen to ones from locations at some distance. Radio sales and programming are focused on the local radio market. Even the LA stations, some of which get listening by Ventura County residents, don't have an interest in residents in your county as, simply put, there is no money to be made off such listening. Your local stations don't seem to serve you, and the more distant ones do not care to serve you as there is no gain. You are one of a tiny percentage of bona fide radio listeners that simply can't be satisfied... in Ventura, probably the econommics of a small, low revenue market are the determining factor... so to broadcasting, you are "unservable." You find listenable stations that the average person neither knows exists or can not pick up well. Most DXers have a bit more tolerance for noise, hisses, buzzes and static than the average listener... who today uses CDs or iPod digital files as the standard; AM as a band can not satisfy the listener expectations of the last two generations. You equate being able to pick up a station with being able to listen to it. These are not the same things, and you should understand that the normal listener to radio has a higher standard of reception than you do. For example, 780 in Reno is not 100% every night; most listeners would never return after the first time they hear nose, static, fading or interference. And you equate listenablity to receivability. The fact is that listenership of AM radio is at its lowest at night, likely due to, first, the greater use of TV by the AM 45+ listener core and, second, by the fact that nearly every AM in the US has less coverage at night than in the daytime, so choices are reduced. Countless studies have been made over the years of where a station gets its audience. The purpose is to not waste money marketing and promoting where there is no potential. For AMs, where we can identify at home and at work listening by ZIP code (and that is 70% of listening) nearly all the listening to any particular station takes place inside a very strong signal contour. Most radio stations do their promotion in what we call Hot Zips, or areas where we get lots of listening. All of these are inside, to use LA as an example, the 70 dbu for FM and the 10 mvm for AM. And it's the same for our competitors. The average radio listener does not listen to weaker signals. They definitely do not listen to noisy ones. Add to that the fact that nearly all AM listeners are over 45, and the majority over 55 and you have, as I said, two generations of Americans who don't use AM much or at all. You don't seem to know what reception on the west coast is like so either you don't listen to AM at all or you don't live on the west coast. Which is it? I know what reception is like for DX, but that is irrelevant to a discussion of why a decision was made to implement HD and then extend its use to nights on AM. That decision is based on how radio is used as much as on the technical issues. My DX interest is stations from Mexico, and, to some extent, Central America. I really have no interest in domestic DX and do what I can to null those stations. Ask about when you can get La Voz de Centroamerica in SPS, Honduras, and that I can tell you. When is XEW silent so the "hidden relay" can be heard? The difference is that I know when I am DXing and when I am listening for content.... something the average listener is really clear about. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , "David Eduardo" wrote: "Telamon" wrote in message ... I think he believes his own noise and no he can't provide the link because what he claims doesn't exist. At least not yet. The info provided to iBiquity's owners is not public, so I am not giving you a link. You will simply have to hold your water until Samsung ships low power, lower cost chips in 2008. You are full of it. The development was announced and then news about it went to zero. That's not a good sign. We are aware of what is going on. That's all that matters; the idea is to keep expanding the station count so more and more manufacturers will buy the new chips and get the radios out in the stores. Most lies have a kernel of truth in them so they are believable. All I know is every time a take a poke at what he posts the stick goes right through the one layer of the "story" he tells. All that he posts seem very illusionary in nature. Nothing is like your insistence that listeners will put up with a bad AM signal and listen, despite radio audience measurements that are universally accepted showing no such thing occurs. This shows you are a sham. You don't know what reception is like around here AM or FM. You are full of it. How does the fact that listeners measured by the ratings services show no interest in skywave reception at all related to whether I know what reception is like of not? They DON'T listen to distant signals, so there is no need to protect distant signals. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "David Eduardo" wrote in message t... A parallel would be the number of people who in the mid to late 80's into the 90's built their own computers. There were parts places all over, magazines filled with ads for cases and fans.... now there is nearly nothing. You're kidding, right? Those ads are everywhere. There are probably at least as many people building their own computers now as there are buying pre-built ones. In our house, there are exactly three pre-built desktop machines (old Gateway minisystems I bought for next to nothing to use as streaming machines). The other 6 desktop machines (mostly towers) are built from discrete parts chosen for their particular merits. This is done by most anyone into serious computing. Those that buy machines off the shelf are usually doing so just to access e-mail and do a bit of web surfing. Computer Shopper went from a 300 page book sold everywhere to a standard size magazine, mostly with new media devices and such. LA had three local computer magazines, advertising the screwdriver shops and component sellers. All are gone, and have been for about 4 to 5 years. And the reason is that almost 100% of the screwdriver and parts shops are gone, leaving Frys and the big boxes to sell limited lines of easy to install routers and external hard drives. Mail order places, like my old drive supplier, Dirt Cheap Drives, are gone by the hundreds. My case source in Buena Park closed a couple of years ago, and there are fewer and fewer alternatives in new motherboards and components. With over half the market now being laptops, most consumers upgrade the box, not the components. Most systems are warranty-voided by adding anything beyond memory, so this is done far less than in the past. The days of overclocking and selecting special components is long-gone as a general practice because computers have reached speeds where buying the newest chip makes scant differnece and overclocking is just not worth the risk for most. I must have built 50 computers going back to the S-100 bus, but quit about 4 years ago when I could get everything I wanted in a laptop. I preobably also bought 150 CPUs, dozens of tubes of silicone grease, had cabinets filled with video cards and modems and motherboards... I used to know the different Asus boards by number... but like most assemblers I know, the pain is not worth the gain and assembled units are cheaper now than buying the parts retail. I buy a new laptop every 12 months, and by the time a new one arrives, the old one is pretty much ready for recycling... and I save lots of time trying to get parts. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message ... "David Eduardo" wrote in message ... No, only the nutjobs like dxAss and Telamon and Steve refuse to realize how radio is used today, and the changes the industry has to make to survive... and that said survival will likely not include AM in the long run. Your vision of "radio" is not radio. It's a low power digital 'local' service that forces everyone to buy new hardware to even make use of it. Anyone can listen to "radio" on the same equipment they listened to it on almost 90 years ago. Nobody has to change any equipment unless they want to. FM stereo is a success... yet it took 4 years to get the first 100 stations on the air. Today, we have 1501 HD stations on or building. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Telamon" wrote in message news:telamon_spamshield- it today. Or, the simple answer: there is a huge decline in the number of SW stations, and also in SW listeners. Domestic SW, the nicest DX, is all but disappearing and the quality broadcasters are reducing schedules or suspending service. Yeah like you would know. You are in denial on this, too? How many SW stations did Colombia have in 1967? And how many now? How many total SW hours does the VOA produce today? 1967? How many SW transmitters and what powers and hours did HCJB have in the 60's vs. today? Now do the same statistics for FM. Colombia had zero FMs in '67, now 80% of the listening is to FM, of which there are now more than AMs in the country. There is a migration from SW to Am to FM. And now to digital. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Telamon" wrote in message ... In article , But I think you are off the deep end because of your denial of ratings, inability to see that if there is no listening of conseuence beyond a certain signal intensity, there must be a truth there, and your idea that knowing wave and propagation theory is somehow necessary to understanding that listeners don't tune to weak signals. Well you don't seem to know what reception is like around here on the west coast and all you need is a portable radio to find out. Knowledge of propagation is not necessary. You just keep on making crap up about how hard or easy it is to pick up a station based on something you read and misinterpreted on the Internet. It does not matter what "reception is like here" because we can easily see what kind of reception generates listening... and, as said before, unless the signal is very strong, there is no listening generated. And beyond that, we have the fact that AM generates very little listening under age 45, and soon it will be "under age 55" and there will be no revenue to support the band. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"Steve" wrote in message oups.com... Don't worry Tardo. Wimax is going to fix your sorry ass for good. Lol. Guess who is going to provide content in WiMax? Same folks that provide radio content now! |
HD radio won't just go away.
SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote: some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations that they were previously easily able to receive) The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via streaming. Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem connection? |
HD radio won't just go away.
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:07:19 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote: Oink! |
HD radio won't just go away.
Eric F. Richards wrote: SFTV_troy wrote: Eminently logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. The Baltimore station has split into 3 sub-channels: - AOR - Classic Rock - Indie Rock So you've given up any pretense of being an actual user and are outing yourself as a shill? Most users wouldn't feel the need to change their alias within 24 hours of first appearing on a mailing list Most users aren't posting from Google Groups that has a 10 message per ~2 hour limit. I use the second email address in order to get around that idiotic limitation. ALSO: I'm not exactly hiding my identity am I? SFTV_troy. SFTVratings_troy. It's obvious I'm the same person. ------ If I truly wanted to hide my identity as you falsely claim, I'd hide myself better by not using near-identical names. ----- Clearly that was Not my intent. first appearing on a mailing list This isn't a mailing list. This is a Usenet newsgroup. I've been posting on them since 1988 (rec.arts.startrek, rec.arts.tv), so please don't compare them to an email list. They have no connection whatsoever to email. |
HD radio won't just go away.
Steve wrote: On Sep 30, 11:44 am, SFTV_troy wrote: Logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating. The Baltimore station has split to 3 sub-channels: - AOR - Classic Rock - Indie Rock A puny set of choices indeed compared to what internet radio yields. Look I have no qualms with Internet Radio. I listen to it half-a-day, every day, at work. BUT it has one serious flaw: - It doesn't work in the car. And I spend a LOT of time in my car (roughly 1.5 hours a day), thus I like to have available to me either Analog or HD Radio to help pass the time. |
HD radio won't just go away.
"SFTV_troy" wrote in message oups.com... Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a teenager. some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations that they were previously easily able to receive) The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via streaming. Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband outside of cities. (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming audio for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the lag doesn't allow for enough FEC... ) to larger still (the obsoleting of literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables), analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.). Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient technologies to faster, economical technologies. BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's not been wasted. Those things were not abandoned wholesale or all at once. They were phased out by attrition, nobody forced anyone to buy a horseless carriage. Plus, there are still working steamboats and horse drawn carriages in use today. Try connecting one of those set-top boxes to your portable TV at the beach, or out camping.. I am not happy (nor is anyone else in the situation) with having a relatively expensive pocket portable TV obsoleted and useless. And has anyone considered the long term ecological repercussions of having to dispose of all these millions of now useless devices? Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic wrap, and containers. Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves. Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that demand (no room to add stations). Most young people I know don't listen to radio at all. It's not in their line of thinking. They listen to their mp3 players when they listen at all. They couldn't care less about radio, and adding more stations won't change that. Besides, have you checked out what kids listen to now? Almost 100% rap/hiphop/urban. They don't want choice... they want conformity (as youth always have.. not with the adult world, but among their peers). |
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