HD radio won't just go away.
 

There is no such place name in California as Ventura.I know what the
place name is, but I done forgot it at the moment.Telamon, tell all them
cutesy pie gals old hansom Larry over here in Mississippi Loves them.
cuhulin

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...


Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities.

It's happening. WiMax.

Try connecting one of those set-top boxes to your portable TV at the
beach, or out camping.. I am not happy (nor is anyone else in the
situation) with having a relatively expensive pocket portable TV obsoleted
and useless.

Truly, how many people use portable TVs? Most portable TV viewing is on
cellular phones, the new iPod, etc.

Most young people I know don't listen to radio at all. It's not in their
line of thinking. They listen to their mp3 players when they listen at
all. They couldn't care less about radio, and adding more stations won't
change that. Besides, have you checked out what kids listen to now?
Almost 100% rap/hiphop/urban. They don't want choice... they want
conformity (as youth always have.. not with the adult world, but among
their peers).

There you go again. There are various kinds or blends of hip hop and
rhythmic CHR. Some markets have two or three stations in the broad genre,
because it has variants, and the proponents of one kind don't like the
other.

Young people (12-24) listen to all kinds of things, and that group is
definitely not composed of sheeple....

Using diverse New York, the top radio stations a

WHTZ CHR (what used to be Top 40)
WWPR Hip Hop mostly Black appeal
WQHT Hip Hop, mostly Hispanic appeal
WCAA Reggaeton (Latin rhythmic) and tropical
WSKQ Latin Tropical
WBLS R&B / Urban
WKTU Rhythmic / light dance
WPAT Spanish AC
WLTW Soft AC
WQBU Regional Mexican
WRKS Urban
WWFS Hot AC
WAXQ Rock

So you can not say that all listen to urban or hip hop stations... not even
30% of the listening by 12-24 in NY is to such stations.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Brenda Ann wrote:


"

Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities. (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming
audio for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the
lag doesn't allow for enough FEC... )


Can you explain "backhaul is still via telephone modem"?

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 4:36 pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"SFTV_troy" wrote in message

oups.com...

Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where
you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et
cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a
teenager.

some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations
that they were previously easily able to receive)

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities. (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming audio
for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the lag
doesn't allow for enough FEC... )

to larger still (the obsoleting of
literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of
currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables),
analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.).

Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam
engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old
technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient
technologies to faster, economical technologies.

BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to
mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's
not been wasted.

Those things were not abandoned wholesale or all at once. They were phased
out by attrition, nobody forced anyone to buy a horseless carriage. Plus,
there are still working steamboats and horse drawn carriages in use today.

Try connecting one of those set-top boxes to your portable TV at the beach,
or out camping.. I am not happy (nor is anyone else in the situation) with
having a relatively expensive pocket portable TV obsoleted and useless.





And has anyone considered the long term
ecological repercussions of having to dispose
of all these millions of now useless devices?

Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food
packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette
player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic
wrap, and containers.

Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist,
and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves.

Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding
more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that
demand (no room to add stations).

Most young people I know don't listen to radio at all. It's not in their
line of thinking. They listen to their mp3 players when they listen at all.
They couldn't care less about radio, and adding more stations won't change
that. Besides, have you checked out what kids listen to now? Almost 100%
rap/hiphop/urban. They don't want choice... they want conformity (as youth
always have.. not with the adult world, but among their peers).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Streaming audio certainly isn't DX, but I fully support Wimax and
internet radio because (1) they're going send HD radio into the
dustbin and (2) they don't destroy a huge swath of spectrum. Perhaps
after Wimax results in the commercial death of HD radio we'll get to
see something truly new and truly interesting pop up on MW.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
Streaming audio certainly isn't DX, but I fully support Wimax and
internet radio because (1) they're going send HD radio into the
dustbin and (2) they don't destroy a huge swath of spectrum. Perhaps
after Wimax results in the commercial death of HD radio we'll get to
see something truly new and truly interesting pop up on MW.


At that point, there will not be AM... the spectrum will be used for
something important, like radio controlled plastic cars from Radio Shack.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Eric F. Richards wrote:
wrote:



Most users aren't posting from Google Groups that has a 10 message per
~2 hour limit. I use the second email address in order to get around
that idiotic limitation.

Post in the clear if you want respect. You are telling me you
can't find a usenet server available to the outside world

I'm currently posting from a hotel (business trip). I have no idea
what the Hotel's Usenet server is, and so I defaulted to using
Googlegroups. Perhaps you know of a free server that does not have
posting limits?

BTW:

Having multiple email accounts is no different than having multiple
phone numbers. It's not a crime.



No, just to get around killfiles. That's okay, you're covered now.

Oh. Gee. I really care.

Not. Go ahead and block me. I don't give a rat's ass.




This isn't a mailing list. This is a Usenet newsgroup.

Typing faster than I think. ....

Or not thinking.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

David Eduardo wrote:

"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
Streaming audio certainly isn't DX, but I fully support Wimax and
internet radio because (1) they're going send HD radio into the
dustbin and (2) they don't destroy a huge swath of spectrum. Perhaps
after Wimax results in the commercial death of HD radio we'll get to
see something truly new and truly interesting pop up on MW.


At that point, there will not be AM... the spectrum will be used for
something important, like radio controlled plastic cars from Radio Shack.

Controlled by pathological fake Hispanics such as yourself?

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 11:19 am, craigm wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:

some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations that they were previously easily able to receive)

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles
outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think
one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem
connection?

CraigM,

Sorry but the Urban Techno-Geek {SFTV}
can not hear the Voice of Rural Reality.

~ RHF

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy"

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

Streaming is not DX. ...

Yes it is. It's listening to a station from a Distant location.


Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would
allow them to listen to these streams?

I use my phone line when I'm at home.






BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to
mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's
not been wasted.

Try connecting one of those set-top boxes to your portable TV at the beach,
or out camping.. I am not happy (nor is anyone else in the situation) with
having a relatively expensive pocket portable TV obsoleted and useless.

Yeah. Things were better during the 50s. I wish we could reverse
progress and go back to the blurry, barely-visible black-n-white.
And no FM.

/end sarcasm

I sold my portable on ebay. I hadn't used it for ten years, and so
saw no reason to keep it. I kept the 2nd one for watching analog
cable upstairs, and thus no need for a D-to-A converter box.



And has anyone considered the long term
ecological repercussions of having to dispose
of all these millions of now useless devices?

Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food
packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette
player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic
wrap, and containers.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

SFTV_troy wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy"

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

Streaming is not DX. ...

Yes it is.

No, it's not. Get a clue little boy.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 6:57 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message

ups.com...

Streaming audio certainly isn't DX, but I fully support Wimax and
internet radio because (1) they're going send HD radio into the
dustbin and (2) they don't destroy a huge swath of spectrum. Perhaps
after Wimax results in the commercial death of HD radio we'll get to
see something truly new and truly interesting pop up on MW.

At that point, there will not be AM... the spectrum will be used for
something important, like radio controlled plastic cars from Radio Shack.

Maybe you'll get lucky and it'll be all colloidal silver infomercials,
all the time.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

craigm wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:


"

Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming
audio for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the
lag doesn't allow for enough FEC... )

Can you explain "backhaul is still via telephone modem"?

Computers operate in two directions during internet access. Typically
the phone line or DSL or cable line flows both down & up across the
same wire, but not satellite:

DOWN - from the satellite
UP - via the phone line

So the down channel is broadband, while the up channel is narrowband.
The thing Brenda forgot is that virtually all of these AM websites are
optimized for phone line usage. I don't need broadband to DX to
California or the UK or Australia via my 56K modem.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
.
..

I think he believes his own noise and no he can't provide the link
because what he claims doesn't exist. At least not yet.

The info provided to iBiquity's owners is not public, so I am not giving
you
a link. You will simply have to hold your water until Samsung ships low
power, lower cost chips in 2008.

You are full of it. The development was announced and then news about it
went to zero. That's not a good sign.

We are aware of what is going on. That's all that matters; the idea is to
keep expanding the station count so more and more manufacturers will buy the
new chips and get the radios out in the stores.

Most lies have a kernel of truth in them so they are believable. All I
know is every time a take a poke at what he posts the stick goes right
through the one layer of the "story" he tells. All that he posts seem
very illusionary in nature.

Nothing is like your insistence that listeners will put up with a bad AM
signal and listen, despite radio audience measurements that are
universally
accepted showing no such thing occurs.

This shows you are a sham. You don't know what reception is like around
here AM or FM. You are full of it.

How does the fact that listeners measured by the ratings services show no
interest in skywave reception at all related to whether I know what
reception is like of not? They DON'T listen to distant signals, so there is
no need to protect distant signals.

The point you do not understand since you do not live around here is AM
does better day or night than FM. Even the low rolling hills on the
coast let alone the larger mountains inland make for very poor FM
reception so your arguments that FM sounds better is bogus. AM is
superior over FM around here at least. I'll bet you have never driven
route 1 along the coast in Ventura or LA counties. FM really sucks on
that road that runs along the ocean.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield- it today.

Or, the simple answer: there is a huge decline in the number of SW
stations, and also in SW listeners. Domestic SW, the nicest DX, is
all but disappearing and the quality broadcasters are reducing
schedules or suspending service.

Yeah like you would know.

You are in denial on this, too? How many SW stations did Colombia
have in 1967? And how many now? How many total SW hours does the VOA
produce today? 1967? How many SW transmitters and what powers and
hours did HCJB have in the 60's vs. today?

Now do the same statistics for FM. Colombia had zero FMs in '67, now
80% of the listening is to FM, of which there are now more than AMs
in the country. There is a migration from SW to Am to FM. And now to
digital.

Some have gone, some have changed, some are new. Things change so what.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Steve wrote:

Streaming audio certainly isn't DX, but I fully support Wimax and
internet radio because (1) they're going send HD radio into the
dustbin and (2) they don't destroy a huge swath of spectrum.


It doesn't? According to wikipedia, the EU has set-aside 300
megahertz of space! That's a heck of a "huge swatch" of spectrum. 15
times larger than what's allocated to FM, and 300 times larger than
the AM allocation.

I call that huge.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,

But I think you are off the deep end because of your denial of
ratings, inability to see that if there is no listening of conseuence
beyond a certain signal intensity, there must be a truth there, and
your idea that knowing wave and propagation theory is somehow
necessary to understanding that listeners don't tune to weak signals.

Well you don't seem to know what reception is like around here on the
west coast and all you need is a portable radio to find out. Knowledge
of propagation is not necessary. You just keep on making crap up about
how hard or easy it is to pick up a station based on something you read
and misinterpreted on the Internet.

It does not matter what "reception is like here" because we can easily see
what kind of reception generates listening... and, as said before, unless
the signal is very strong, there is no listening generated. And beyond that,
we have the fact that AM generates very little listening under age 45, and
soon it will be "under age 55" and there will be no revenue to support the
band.

So the reality is you don't know but are guessing based on manufactured
statistics or stuff you read on the Internet. However, although you do
not have direct knowledge you feel free to tell me what I can receive
well or not. What a crock.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:


I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough
market, you fool.

I think what happened was that they pretty much sold one to everybody
who wanted one over the series' extremely long run.

As I recall it Drakes explanation of the discontinuation it wasn't so much the
lack of demand but other issues.

I'll have to contact Bill Frost and ask him about that.


I'll bet I'm right about the cost of producing the R8B.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,

But I think you are off the deep end because of your denial of
ratings, inability to see that if there is no listening of conseuence
beyond a certain signal intensity, there must be a truth there, and
your idea that knowing wave and propagation theory is somehow
necessary to understanding that listeners don't tune to weak signals.

Well you don't seem to know what reception is like around here on the
west coast and all you need is a portable radio to find out. Knowledge
of propagation is not necessary. You just keep on making crap up about
how hard or easy it is to pick up a station based on something you read
and misinterpreted on the Internet.

It does not matter what "reception is like here" because we can easily see
what kind of reception generates listening... and, as said before, unless
the signal is very strong, there is no listening generated. And beyond that,
we have the fact that AM generates very little listening under age 45, and
soon it will be "under age 55" and there will be no revenue to support the
band.

So the reality is you don't know but are guessing based on manufactured
statistics or stuff you read on the Internet. However, although you do
not have direct knowledge you feel free to tell me what I can receive
well or not. What a crock.

Yes, 'Eduardo' is a crock. A full crock. He's also a fake Hispanic, AND a
pathological liar. He's been the latter for at least 50 years now.

I think his mommie taught him that one. After all, she went to the same school as
Hillary Clinton, so what can one expect?

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article . com,
SFTV_troy wrote:

Steve wrote:
On Sep 30, 1:43 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in
...

David Eduardo wrote:

You can't have it both ways, David. You can't insist that
Radio is
healthier than ever, and then claim your worry is about the
success of terrestrial radio against alternatives.

But I do not claim that. Radio is in slow revenue growth mode,
and this year may be no-growth (although due to automotive and
mortgage / housing crisis situations) so it is critical to keep
the existing audience base, which the PPPM shows to be a 96%
reach of all 6+ Americans.

No, radio isn't in slow growth mode. You're just in talk trash
mode.


I sense a lot of animosity against Eduardo, but I think he has a
valid point about

Snip

This is the guy that tells me what my reception is like based on
marketing statistics. This is the guy that calls me a lier when I post
about what I can hear, what programming I listen too, and that in any
even I'm not relevant to his work or life. This in a news group about
radio listening local or distant. The guy is a joke and is the only one
that does not realize it.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:


I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough
market, you fool.

I think what happened was that they pretty much sold one to everybody
who wanted one over the series' extremely long run.

As I recall it Drakes explanation of the discontinuation it wasn't so much the
lack of demand but other issues.

I'll have to contact Bill Frost and ask him about that.

I'll bet I'm right about the cost of producing the R8B.

As I recall it, you are. It wasn't so much an issue of demand it was something to do
with the availability of components currently being used, re-design costs because of
that unavailability, and just the overall cost of building them.

The market was there, just witness the still high price an R8B brings.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Sep 30, 3:04 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message

ups.com...



Since most 'folks' here are over 50 or around 50 :

No Body Here Listens To You - d'Eduardo ! ~ RHF

You just pointed out something that the engineer who gave a radio club a
tour a few years ago mentioned.... there are no young DXers any more.

That's right. They're all listening to internet radio now.


I'm sure some of it is that there is no appeal of AM at all to young people,
whether they be teens or young adults, so they would not discover AM skip in
any case, But there has to be more to this than just what is on the radio.

A parallel would be the number of people who in the mid to late 80's into
the 90's built their own computers. There were parts places all over,
magazines filled with ads for cases and fans.... now there is nearly
nothing.

Kinda like people who who are wanting to stick with out-of-date
broadcast technologies, like IBOC.

Yeah. That technology is older than I am.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article om,
SFTV_troy wrote:

David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon"

I'm sorry, I fail to see the logic of your argument. Try again.


Let's say in Anytown that there are 24 formats that could get over about a 1
share.... in other words, the percentage of listening that would get
advertisers results based on enough listeners hearing the message. But
Anytown has only 12 FM signals that do a decent job of covering the market.
So there are 12 viable formats that are not being done in Anytown, formats
that would be salable, listenable and useful.

So, a station puts one of the viable second tier of formats on


Eminently logical. I've already stated this elsewhere, but it's worth
repeating. The Baltimore station has split into 3 sub-channels:
- AOR
- Classic Rock
- Indie Rock

.....thus giving listeners more options, more variety, more music.
It's similar to what's been happening to Cable TV the last ten years,
slowly but surely expanding from ~50 channels to ~200 channels. (And
profiting.)

Pretty clueless of you to compare cable to radio broadcasting.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
craigm wrote:

SFTV_troy wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:


some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations that they were previously easily able to receive)

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.



Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles
outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think
one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem
connection?

You can go satellite with high bit rates. Main downside is high ping
time but that is usually only an issue with on line gaming.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 9:53 am, SFTV_troy wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Sep 29, 3:31 pm, SFTV_troy wrote:
wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:

With digital the FM band would effectively triple or even quadruple
the number of channels on the dial. (Alternatively Classical FM
stations could boost the sound from 2 channel stereo to 5.1
surround.)

Do you understand the consequences of what
you propose? Apparently you do not.

- No, because I can not read your mind.
- Please explain the consequences.


- - That's An Evasive Answer - Please Answer The Question.

- Ahhh, you're taking the "arrogant position"
- where you presume, "Troy is a ****ing idiot"

WHAT ME ARROGANT ?

Actually I 'Presume' You Are Very Intelligent
-or- At least I Did . . .

- and "I'm smarter than Troy", therefore "I'll talk
- down to him like he's a worthless worm."

"That's An Evasive Answer - Please Answer The Question."

Is a Straight In-Your-Face Statement
{ One-to-One / Eyeball-to-Eyeball }

- How rude and unfriendly.

It is Rude and Unfriendly to Ask you to actually
Listen to the AM/MW Radio Band and the very
Negative Effect that IBOC has had on It : Prior
to posting your High Praises of "HD" Radio.

- - Turn in an Analog AM/MW Radio and tune every 10 kHz
- - from 530 kHz to 1710 kHz and Listen to what you hear
- - on each and every 10 kHz Radio Station Channel :
- - That Buzz Noise Hash that was not

- Yes I am aware of that problem.

Your 'awareness' has clearly not resulted in "Understanding".

- (Although I'm still able to hear
- Radio Disney just fine on the AM.)

One Radio Station out of "How Many"
prior to IBOC ? ? ?

- The solution is simple for someone like yourself
- who has an internet connection:

- call letters.com - listen online.

Listening 'On-Line' is not Free Over-the-Air Radio [.]

~ RHF

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
craigm wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:


"

Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities. (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming
audio for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the
lag doesn't allow for enough FEC... )


Can you explain "backhaul is still via telephone modem"?

You make requests or upload files / data over the phone line. The
download path to you is the satellite dish. If you are surfing the net
your requests and upstream data are small and the downloads such as
movie trailers, video, and streaming media are high bit rate.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

On Sep 30, 6:23 pm, dxAce wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy"

The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

Streaming is not DX. ...

Yes it is.

No, it's not. Get a clue little boy.


(1) Well grandpa, I do have a clue; you're just being narrow-minded
to presume only AM is DX. Other media can also be DX too.

(2) Even if it doesn't fit your definition of DX'ing (via AM), why
does it matter? When you listen over the internet, you're still
hearing the exact-same program.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

You have a mistaken impression of radio audience measurement.

Snip

You misrepresent the facts to support your arguments as needed. You tell
me I don't hear the stations I listen to because they are so weak as to
be DX and nobody would spend time listening to them. You are full of it.

You are, as I mentioned previously, the kind of listener radio stations are
hard put to serve. You mentioned already that you are not satisfied with
your local stations (and your local stations are those licensed to Ventura
County) and prefer to listen to ones from locations at some distance.

Radio sales and programming are focused on the local radio market. Even the
LA stations, some of which get listening by Ventura County residents, don't
have an interest in residents in your county as, simply put, there is no
money to be made off such listening. Your local stations don't seem to serve
you, and the more distant ones do not care to serve you as there is no gain.
You are one of a tiny percentage of bona fide radio listeners that simply
can't be satisfied... in Ventura, probably the econommics of a small, low
revenue market are the determining factor... so to broadcasting, you are
"unservable."

You find listenable stations that the average person neither knows exists or
can not pick up well. Most DXers have a bit more tolerance for noise,
hisses, buzzes and static than the average listener... who today uses CDs or
iPod digital files as the standard; AM as a band can not satisfy the
listener expectations of the last two generations.

You equate being able to pick up a station with being able to listen to it.
These are not the same things, and you should understand that the normal
listener to radio has a higher standard of reception than you do. For
example, 780 in Reno is not 100% every night; most listeners would never
return after the first time they hear nose, static, fading or interference.

And you equate listenablity to receivability. The fact is that listenership
of AM radio is at its lowest at night, likely due to, first, the greater use
of TV by the AM 45+ listener core and, second, by the fact that nearly every
AM in the US has less coverage at night than in the daytime, so choices are
reduced.

Countless studies have been made over the years of where a station gets its
audience. The purpose is to not waste money marketing and promoting where
there is no potential. For AMs, where we can identify at home and at work
listening by ZIP code (and that is 70% of listening) nearly all the
listening to any particular station takes place inside a very strong signal
contour. Most radio stations do their promotion in what we call Hot Zips, or
areas where we get lots of listening. All of these are inside, to use LA as
an example, the 70 dbu for FM and the 10 mvm for AM. And it's the same for
our competitors.

The average radio listener does not listen to weaker signals. They
definitely do not listen to noisy ones.

Add to that the fact that nearly all AM listeners are over 45, and the
majority over 55 and you have, as I said, two generations of Americans who
don't use AM much or at all.

You don't seem to know what reception on the west coast is like so
either you don't listen to AM at all or you don't live on the west
coast. Which is it?

I know what reception is like for DX, but that is irrelevant to a discussion
of why a decision was made to implement HD and then extend its use to nights
on AM. That decision is based on how radio is used as much as on the
technical issues.

My DX interest is stations from Mexico, and, to some extent, Central
America. I really have no interest in domestic DX and do what I can to null
those stations. Ask about when you can get La Voz de Centroamerica in SPS,
Honduras, and that I can tell you. When is XEW silent so the "hidden relay"
can be heard? The difference is that I know when I am DXing and when I am
listening for content.... something the average listener is really clear
about.

How many times do I have to post I'm not a DX'er? Oh, that's right you
don't read or listen to people do you.

If KOH is not coming in well I don't listen. I try again the next night
and if reception is good, and it usually is, then I stay tuned in.
That's going to happen a lot less now that I have HD hiss in the
background all the time. Now I'll be listening to KOH very infrequently
to never because I'm not going to listen to that bacon frying sound in
the background. It's very annoying.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article . com,
SFTV_troy wrote:

RHF wrote:

I want to see FM upgraded with three to four times more programs to
choose from.

SFTV_troy are you on d'Eduardo's Pay Roll ?
-or- Work for any of the Companies that Employ Him ?
-or- Work for a Radio Station using his Programming ?


Nope. I'm an electrical engineer who designs computer boards and
circuits.

I'd expect an electrical engineer to be more knowledgeable than your
posts indicate.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

Telamon wrote:

In article ,
craigm wrote:

Can you explain "backhaul is still via telephone modem"?

You make requests or upload files / data over the phone line. The
download path to you is the satellite dish. If you are surfing the net
your requests and upstream data are small and the downloads such as
movie trailers, video, and streaming media are high bit rate.


.... and ...

SFTV_troy wrote:


Computers operate in two directions during internet access. Typically
the phone line or DSL or cable line flows both down & up across the
same wire, but not satellite:

DOWN - from the satellite
UP - via the phone line

So the down channel is broadband, while the up channel is narrowband.
The thing Brenda forgot is that virtually all of these AM websites are
optimized for phone line usage. I don't need broadband to DX to
California or the UK or Australia via my 56K modem.


Well, Wildblue and Hughesnet are the two major providers of satellite access
in the US and they both use two way satellite connections. They do not use
the phone.

Both offer higher upload speeds than a conventional phone line can provide.

Makes one wonder what else you don't understand.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

The point you do not understand since you do not live around here is AM
does better day or night than FM. Even the low rolling hills on the
coast let alone the larger mountains inland make for very poor FM
reception so your arguments that FM sounds better is bogus. AM is
superior over FM around here at least. I'll bet you have never driven
route 1 along the coast in Ventura or LA counties. FM really sucks on
that road that runs along the ocean.

I have only driven that route a few dozen times. The local FMs (the ones
with decent in market signals) sound fine.

There are spots where there is multipath, but HD will reduce or eliminate
that.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

So the reality is you don't know but are guessing based on manufactured
statistics or stuff you read on the Internet. However, although you do
not have direct knowledge you feel free to tell me what I can receive
well or not. What a crock.

1. Arbitron data is not manufactured, and if you combine a year of surveys,
and read the data in MapMaker, you can easily do a "fuzzy line" plot of
where a station has useful coverage. It's funny that it tends to match the
10 mvm contour nicely.

2. I do not get any data on the internet. Before we could process the data
in Maximiser, we had to plot every diary against a map of ZIPs at
Arbitrons's HQ in Maryland. Ask the Arbitron folks who was there most often
to do that?

3. I have no interest in what you receive. I have an interest in what people
can listen to, so I made sure I knew what a listenable signal was, first.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
dxAce wrote:

David wrote:

On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 17:27:54 -0700, "David Eduardo"
wrote:


I suppose it was my idea to discontinue the R8B? There was not enough
market, you fool.

I think what happened was that they pretty much sold one to everybody
who wanted one over the series' extremely long run.

As I recall it Drakes explanation of the discontinuation it wasn't so
much the
lack of demand but other issues.

I'll have to contact Bill Frost and ask him about that.


I'll bet I'm right about the cost of producing the R8B.

People would have paid more... as costs went up. The issue was that there
was not a big enough demand to pay for the costs of production runs,
redesign around changing parts, etc.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

This is the guy that tells me what my reception is like based on
marketing statistics.

You certainly twist things at your convenience. I have said many times that
radio is not interested in reception outside the primary market. Strike one.
Radio stations get essentially no listening outside, in the case of AMs, the
10 mvm contour... proven by looking at the behaviour of millions of diary
keeping listeners over the last decade or so. Strike 2. And reception can be
considered listenable only if many people listen to a station in an area.
Strike 3.

You listen to stations most people, if not all, in your area, consider
unlistenable, and they tell us this by the failure of the stations you have
metioned to show up with even minimal listening in your area.

This is the guy that calls me a lier when I post
about what I can hear,

You still do not get the difference between hearable and listenable.

what programming I listen too,

While it appears, from the fact you care about AM, that you like news talk,
I have not made any observation on your choice of that programming. Keep in
mind that news talk is migrating to FM in many places already, due to
demographic concerns.

and that in any
even I'm not relevant to his work or life.

No, yoiu are not. You have such strange listening patterns and choices
nobody can appeal to you. The out of market stations can not derive revenue
from you, as there is no out of market sales. You don't benefit the in
market stations, as you do not use them. Useless, then, to terrestrial
radio.

This in a news group about
radio listening local or distant. The guy is a joke and is the only one
that does not realize it.

The real joke is on the couple of guys like you who don't realize that they
are contributing to the end of AM.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
If KOH is not coming in well I don't listen. I try again the next night
and if reception is good, and it usually is, then I stay tuned in.
That's going to happen a lot less now that I have HD hiss in the
background all the time. Now I'll be listening to KOH very infrequently
to never because I'm not going to listen to that bacon frying sound in
the background. It's very annoying.


And KROW could care less. They get most of their revenue 6 AM to 7 PM in the
groudnwave coverage area around Reno. They get no benefit from you or even
10,000 like you in Ventura County, CA.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"David Eduardo" wrote:


You listen to stations most people, if not all, in your area, consider
unlistenable, and they tell us this by the failure of the stations you have
metioned to show up with even minimal listening in your area.



He doesn't listen because Aribtron says they don't listen because
Arbitron doesn't count out of market listeners because they don't
listen.

Nice.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

The point you do not understand since you do not live around here is AM
does better day or night than FM. Even the low rolling hills on the
coast let alone the larger mountains inland make for very poor FM
reception so your arguments that FM sounds better is bogus. AM is
superior over FM around here at least. I'll bet you have never driven
route 1 along the coast in Ventura or LA counties. FM really sucks on
that road that runs along the ocean.

I have only driven that route a few dozen times. The local FMs (the ones
with decent in market signals) sound fine.

There are spots where there is multipath, but HD will reduce or eliminate
that.

Try driving it again. Ocean on one side and high cliffs on the other
such that FM is pretty much dead. You will not pick up anything from the
LA area just a few stations from up or down the coast. Must be a magic
radio in your car or you have never driven that road. Every post you
make, makes you look less real to me.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

So the reality is you don't know but are guessing based on manufactured
statistics or stuff you read on the Internet. However, although you do
not have direct knowledge you feel free to tell me what I can receive
well or not. What a crock.

1. Arbitron data is not manufactured, and if you combine a year of surveys,
and read the data in MapMaker, you can easily do a "fuzzy line" plot of
where a station has useful coverage. It's funny that it tends to match the
10 mvm contour nicely.

2. I do not get any data on the internet. Before we could process the data
in Maximiser, we had to plot every diary against a map of ZIPs at
Arbitrons's HQ in Maryland. Ask the Arbitron folks who was there most often
to do that?

3. I have no interest in what you receive. I have an interest in what people
can listen to, so I made sure I knew what a listenable signal was, first.

More importantly you have no interest in reality.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

HD radio won't just go away.
 

"Eric F. Richards" wrote in message
...
"David Eduardo" wrote:


You listen to stations most people, if not all, in your area, consider
unlistenable, and they tell us this by the failure of the stations you
have
metioned to show up with even minimal listening in your area.



He doesn't listen because Aribtron says they don't listen because
Arbitron doesn't count out of market listeners because they don't
listen.

In each market area, all listening to any radio station is recorded by
listeners as is the instruction in the Arbitron diary. Commercial or
non-commercial, local or not, internet or off air, satellite or terrestrial.
All is recorded and processed. If there is any significant listening to out
of market stations it is recorded.

There are a couple of hundred stations that get out of market listening in
the US. Most are FMs, and the listening is in geographically adjacent or
embedded markets.

In the San Francisco market, San Jose is part of the total metro. But there
is also a separate San Jose rating, taken from the sample done in one county
only, so the SF stations show up in the San Jose Book. Similarly, Riverside
/San Berdoo are adjacent to LA, but not in the LA radio market (they are in
the TV market and thus in the DMA) and LA stations get about half the
listening in that market's ratings. But there is no market anymore where
skywave listening to AM consistently if ever "makes the book." The last
cases were the usage of KGO at night in Oregon.... but that does not happen
any more.

But if WWL has listening in Seattle, WWL will show up in the Seattle
ratings.

HD radio won't just go away.
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

This is the guy that tells me what my reception is like based on
marketing statistics.

You certainly twist things at your convenience. I have said many times that
radio is not interested in reception outside the primary market. Strike one.
Radio stations get essentially no listening outside, in the case of AMs, the
10 mvm contour... proven by looking at the behaviour of millions of diary
keeping listeners over the last decade or so. Strike 2. And reception can be
considered listenable only if many people listen to a station in an area.
Strike 3.

You listen to stations most people, if not all, in your area, consider
unlistenable, and they tell us this by the failure of the stations you have
metioned to show up with even minimal listening in your area.

More baloney from the master fabricator.

This is the guy that calls me a lier when I post
about what I can hear,

You still do not get the difference between hearable and listenable.

You still don't know the difference between some screw up ideas in your
head and reality.

what programming I listen too,

While it appears, from the fact you care about AM, that you like news talk,
I have not made any observation on your choice of that programming. Keep in
mind that news talk is migrating to FM in many places already, due to
demographic concerns.

Well that's just great. That means my reception will get worse than it
is now.

and that in any
even I'm not relevant to his work or life.

No, yoiu are not. You have such strange listening patterns and choices
nobody can appeal to you. The out of market stations can not derive revenue
from you, as there is no out of market sales. You don't benefit the in
market stations, as you do not use them. Useless, then, to terrestrial
radio.

This in a news group about
radio listening local or distant. The guy is a joke and is the only one
that does not realize it.

The real joke is on the couple of guys like you who don't realize that they
are contributing to the end of AM.

Well here is a news flash for you. The HD you promote is doing just that.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California