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Old September 30th 07, 12:40 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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Default HD radio won't just go away.


"SFTV_troy" wrote in message
ps.com...

Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was
there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No.
Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital
satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like
digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....)



No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of unavailability of
product? Ever hear of CHOICE?

Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not take
a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby), some
larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city grade
contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations
that they were previously easily able to receive) to larger still (the
obsoleting of literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of
currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables), analog radios,
turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.). And has anyone considered the long
term ecological repercussions of having to dispose of all these millions of
now useless devices? "Progress" don't come for free. Sometimes it costs more
than people are willing to pay.

Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist, and is/will
create(ing) more problems than it solves.

You mention digital satellite radio. That's fine, and I wouldn't mind giving
it a try.. but hey, satellite radio doesn't affect my ability to listen to
any of hundreds or more terrestrial analog stations whenever I choose. IBOC
terrestrial radios DOES! If you want to listen to digital radio, then get
yourself an XM or Sirius radio and listen to your heart's content.... just
don't expect the millions of people in the US alone that IBOC is negatively
affecting to just roll over and play dead.




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Old September 30th 07, 05:34 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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Posts: 118
Default HD radio won't just go away.

Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy" wrote in message
ps.com...

Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was
there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No.
Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital
satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like
digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....)



No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of
unavailability of product? Ever hear of CHOICE?


Hi Brenda,

Yeah just 5 seconds ago when I read your post. ;-) Although it's
sometimes painful to have to abandon your old record player and
upgrade to CD, I think it's worthwhile. You get better sound. (Of
course, you don't have to abandon records; there are still turntables
out there.)

Me, I'm stuck in the middle of this HDTV transition. I'm recording
HDTV with a vcr, which is totally inadequate for the task, but I'm
still glad the transition was made, because HDTV looks much, much
better than analog. I have no desire to take a step backwards to
analog.


Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not
take a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby)


Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where
you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et
cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a
teenager.


some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations
that they were previously easily able to receive)


The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.



to larger still (the obsoleting of
literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of
currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables),
analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.).



Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam
engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old
technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient
technologies to faster, economical technologies.

BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to
mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's
not been wasted.



And has anyone considered the long term
ecological repercussions of having to dispose
of all these millions of now useless devices?


Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food
packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette
player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic
wrap, and containers.



Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist,
and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves.


Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding
more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that
demand (no room to add stations).



You mention digital satellite radio. That's fine, and I wouldn't mind
giving it a try.. but hey, satellite radio doesn't affect my ability
to listen to any of hundreds or more terrestrial analog stations
whenever I choose. IBOC terrestrial radios DOES!


No it doesn't. Just type in your favorite radio station's call
letters.com, and you can hear them over the internet. (If you can't
find your station, I'd be happy to help you locate its dot-com
location.)

Oh and you can try free XM by going he radioaol.com - That's
what I listen to during work (sometimes).



If you want to listen to digital radio, then get yourself
an XM or Sirius radio and listen to your heart's content


I don't want to pay $150 a year for radio. I like the free over-the-
air kind, but I want more stations.

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Old September 30th 07, 05:40 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,324
Default HD radio won't just go away.

On Sep 30, 12:34 pm, SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy" wrote in message
ups.com...


Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was
there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No.
Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital
satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like
digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....)


No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of
unavailability of product? Ever hear of CHOICE?


Yes, It's what has driven me to internet radio.



Hi Brenda,

Yeah just 5 seconds ago when I read your post. ;-) Although it's
sometimes painful to have to abandon your old record player and
upgrade to CD, I think it's worthwhile. You get better sound. (Of
course, you don't have to abandon records; there are still turntables
out there.)


Yes, but better sound is of little value when combined with **** poor
programming.


Me, I'm stuck in the middle of this HDTV transition. I'm recording
HDTV with a vcr, which is totally inadequate for the task, but I'm
still glad the transition was made, because HDTV looks much, much
better than analog. I have no desire to take a step backwards to
analog.

Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not
take a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby)


Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where
you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et
cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a
teenager.


That's right, you can hear it all on the internet. But wait, what do
we need all of these HD radios for then?


some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive stations
that they were previously easily able to receive)


The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.

to larger still (the obsoleting of
literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of
currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables),
analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.).


Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam
engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old
technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient
technologies to faster, economical technologies.


That's what I keep telling all the HD radio proponents, but they just
clink to their little digital horse drawn carriages. Time to let go of
the past and drive on the internet autobahn.

BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to
mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's
not been wasted.

And has anyone considered the long term
ecological repercussions of having to dispose
of all these millions of now useless devices?


Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food
packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette
player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic
wrap, and containers.

Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist,
and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves.


Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding
more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that
demand (no room to add stations).


Yes, this is also driving people to internet radio.


You mention digital satellite radio. That's fine, and I wouldn't mind
giving it a try.. but hey, satellite radio doesn't affect my ability
to listen to any of hundreds or more terrestrial analog stations
whenever I choose. IBOC terrestrial radios DOES!


No it doesn't. Just type in your favorite radio station's call
letters.com, and you can hear them over the internet. (If you can't
find your station, I'd be happy to help you locate its dot-com
location.)


Precisely! Looks like you're catching on!


Oh and you can try free XM by going he radioaol.com - That's
what I listen to during work (sometimes).

If you want to listen to digital radio, then get yourself
an XM or Sirius radio and listen to your heart's content


I don't want to pay $150 a year for radio. I like the free over-the-
air kind, but I want more stations.


Yeah, that's why internet radio is the future. Cheaper than satellite,
thousands of more choices than HD.

Progress feels good. Real good.

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Old September 30th 07, 05:41 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,243
Default HD radio won't just go away.



SFTV_troy wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:
"SFTV_troy" wrote in message
ps.com...

Was there a downside to upgrading from Cassettes to CDs? No. Was
there a downside to upgrading from analog VHS to digital DVDs? No.
Was there a downside to upgrading from analog radio to Digital
satellite radio? No. (I could go on-and-on with other examples like
digital MP3s and Ipods and Internet radio and.....)



No downside? Ever hear of replacement costs? Ever hear of
unavailability of product? Ever hear of CHOICE?


Hi Brenda,

Yeah just 5 seconds ago when I read your post. ;-) Although it's
sometimes painful to have to abandon your old record player and
upgrade to CD, I think it's worthwhile. You get better sound. (Of
course, you don't have to abandon records; there are still turntables
out there.)

Me, I'm stuck in the middle of this HDTV transition. I'm recording
HDTV with a vcr, which is totally inadequate for the task, but I'm
still glad the transition was made, because HDTV looks much, much
better than analog. I have no desire to take a step backwards to
analog.

Those that think there is no downside to "upgrading" technology do not
take a myriad of factors into account, some small (like the DX hobby)


Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where
you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et
cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a
teenager.


Uh, that's NOT DX'ing, no matter what the pathological David F. Gleason might have you
believe.


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Old September 30th 07, 07:19 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 89
Default HD radio won't just go away.

SFTV_troy wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:



some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations that they were previously easily able to receive)


The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.



Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles
outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think
one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem
connection?




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Old October 1st 07, 12:21 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
RHF RHF is offline
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Posts: 8,652
Default HD radio won't just go away.

On Sep 30, 11:19 am, craigm wrote:
SFTV_troy wrote:
Brenda Ann wrote:


some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations that they were previously easily able to receive)


The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.


Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles
outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think
one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem
connection?


CraigM,

Sorry but the Urban Techno-Geek {SFTV}
can not hear the Voice of Rural Reality.

~ RHF
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Old October 1st 07, 01:03 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,494
Default HD radio won't just go away.

In article ,
craigm wrote:

SFTV_troy wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:



some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations that they were previously easily able to receive)


The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.



Are you assuming rural America has high speed internet? I live 4 miles
outside city limits and there is no DSL and no cable internet. Do you think
one can adequately stream a decent internet feed over a 28k modem
connection?


You can go satellite with high bit rates. Main downside is high ping
time but that is usually only an issue with on line gaming.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California
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Old September 30th 07, 09:36 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 855
Default HD radio won't just go away.


"SFTV_troy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes true. By the way, DX isn't dead. It moved to the internet, where
you can hear stations as far away as London, Russia, Australia, et
cetera. I hear more distant stations now than I ever did as a
teenager.


some larger (orphaning millions of listeners that don't live inside city
grade contours of broadcast stations, and lose their ability to receive
stations
that they were previously easily able to receive)


The analog FM is still there. So too are the websites, so rural
listeners can stream them off the internet. Heck, I listen to
stations in my hometown, and I'm currently 1000 miles away, just via
streaming.


Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities. (hint: satellite internet doesn't handle streaming audio
for beans, since the backhaul is still via telephone modem, and the lag
doesn't allow for enough FEC... )

to larger still (the obsoleting of
literally hundred of millions (possibly even billions) of
currently useful devices (analog TV's (especially portables),
analog radios, turntables, cassette decks, ad inf.).



Yes. Just like when we abandoned horse-drawn carriages, steam
engines, and riverboats. It's called progress... moving from old
technologies to new technologies. Movign from slow or inefficient
technologies to faster, economical technologies.

BTW analog TVs are not dead. I've got a digital tuner attached to
mine, which means the set will die a natural death of old age. It's
not been wasted.



Those things were not abandoned wholesale or all at once. They were phased
out by attrition, nobody forced anyone to buy a horseless carriage. Plus,
there are still working steamboats and horse drawn carriages in use today.

Try connecting one of those set-top boxes to your portable TV at the beach,
or out camping.. I am not happy (nor is anyone else in the situation) with
having a relatively expensive pocket portable TV obsoleted and useless.

And has anyone considered the long term
ecological repercussions of having to dispose
of all these millions of now useless devices?


Trivial compared to the amount of trash generated from food
packaging. By volume I'd estimate a thrown-away VCR or Cassette
player is less than 1% the volume generated by food boxes, plastic
wrap, and containers.



Digital radio is an answer to a problem that doesn't exist,
and is/will create(ing) more problems than it solves.


Actually there is a problem. Young adults and teens are demanding
more variety, and analog radio doesn't have room to grow to meet that
demand (no room to add stations).



Most young people I know don't listen to radio at all. It's not in their
line of thinking. They listen to their mp3 players when they listen at all.
They couldn't care less about radio, and adding more stations won't change
that. Besides, have you checked out what kids listen to now? Almost 100%
rap/hiphop/urban. They don't want choice... they want conformity (as youth
always have.. not with the adult world, but among their peers).



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Old September 30th 07, 10:07 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,817
Default HD radio won't just go away.


"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...


Streaming is not DX. Also, where do you think these rural listeners are
going to get broadband internet access that would allow them to listen to
these streams? Ain't gonna happen, because nobody is supplying broadband
outside of cities.


It's happening. WiMax.

Try connecting one of those set-top boxes to your portable TV at the
beach, or out camping.. I am not happy (nor is anyone else in the
situation) with having a relatively expensive pocket portable TV obsoleted
and useless.


Truly, how many people use portable TVs? Most portable TV viewing is on
cellular phones, the new iPod, etc.

Most young people I know don't listen to radio at all. It's not in their
line of thinking. They listen to their mp3 players when they listen at
all. They couldn't care less about radio, and adding more stations won't
change that. Besides, have you checked out what kids listen to now?
Almost 100% rap/hiphop/urban. They don't want choice... they want
conformity (as youth always have.. not with the adult world, but among
their peers).


There you go again. There are various kinds or blends of hip hop and
rhythmic CHR. Some markets have two or three stations in the broad genre,
because it has variants, and the proponents of one kind don't like the
other.

Young people (12-24) listen to all kinds of things, and that group is
definitely not composed of sheeple....

Using diverse New York, the top radio stations a

WHTZ CHR (what used to be Top 40)
WWPR Hip Hop mostly Black appeal
WQHT Hip Hop, mostly Hispanic appeal
WCAA Reggaeton (Latin rhythmic) and tropical
WSKQ Latin Tropical
WBLS R&B / Urban
WKTU Rhythmic / light dance
WPAT Spanish AC
WLTW Soft AC
WQBU Regional Mexican
WRKS Urban
WWFS Hot AC
WAXQ Rock

So you can not say that all listen to urban or hip hop stations... not even
30% of the listening by 12-24 in NY is to such stations.


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Old September 30th 07, 10:01 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,861
Default HD radio won't just go away.

There is no such place name in California as Ventura.I know what the
place name is, but I done forgot it at the moment.Telamon, tell all them
cutesy pie gals old hansom Larry over here in Mississippi Loves them.
cuhulin



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