I use Time Wanner Cable in New York City. And I notice that when
commericals come on the volume level is too high.

I could like to know if other people notice this?

Thank you

oldchip






SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Steven Ramirez wrote:
I use Time Wanner Cable in New York City. And I notice that when
commericals come on the volume level is too high.

I could like to know if other people notice this?

Thank you

oldchip




Cable is horrible about this. Most of the commercials come in over
processed...that is, with average level driven closer to the peak, for
greater loudness.

Also, there's a good deal of spectral manipulation so the bulk of the
audio falls into the spectra where the ear is most sensitive.

It's a phenomenon that's been applied to commercial audio since the
early days.

This differs from most program audio which has higher dynamic range,
and often, but not always, less spectral manipulation, so the ear
doesn't fatigue through the program. So, there's a difference in
perceived level between commercial and program matter.

Also at issue, is that local commercials come in produced by smaller
houses, or in-house, with less attention to the audio. Levels can be
low. Production values different. And the entry level operators taking
in these local spots, or even locally produced access programs, don't
pay attention to the incoming audio, and take corrective measures to see
to it that levels are matched source-to-source.

And since cable doesn't, as a rule, process the audio for each
channel at the head end for level/loudness/spectral distribution, the
levels can vary not only source to source, but channel to channel, as well.

You'll notice similar issues with your DTV channels over the air from
your local stations.

CBS network feeds tend to be pre processsed to remove a lot of the
level variations at the network. As does CBS and ABC. Locally, though,
this can vary.

You can take some steps to correct this, yourself, though. If you
have a newer TV, in the Setup Menu, the audio portion has an audio level
control setting specifically designed to deal with these loudness
variations. Toshiba calls it StableSound. Others have similar names.
These can be effective, but a bit heavy handed.

Now, if you're using outboard audio for a home theatre setup, you can
install a compressor, or limiter yourself. FMR audio makes a product
called a Really Nice Compressor, with a street price of about $229. This
particular device has what FMR calls "Super Nice" mode: Gain control
without audible artifacts. Setting attack at a medium fast rate, release
medium slow and compression ratio at about 3:1 or less, and using no
more than 5db of gain control, in SuperNice mode, you can pull up the
lower audio without the huge pump up of noise you hear in most
installations, control the huge variations between program level audio
and commercial audio, still appreciate the more natural sound of the
less processed program audio, AND hear some of the very low portions
that otherwise would be nearly inaudible.

In the case of gain control devices, like equalizers, less is more,
so use it lightly for maximum benefits. If you can hear it working,
you're using too much.

D Peter Maus wrote:

Steven Ramirez wrote:

I use Time Wanner Cable in New York City. And I notice that when
commericals come on the volume level is too high.

I could like to know if other people notice this?

Thank you

oldchip




Cable is horrible about this. Most of the commercials come in over
processed...that is, with average level driven closer to the peak, for
greater loudness.

snip

There is an ongoing thread on this topic in sci.electronics.repair (and
perhaps crossposted groups); missing from much of the discussion is the
use of vertical interval clues to mute or attenuate audio during source
changes (commercials). Thoughts?

Michael

msg wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

Steven Ramirez wrote:

I use Time Wanner Cable in New York City. And I notice that when
commericals come on the volume level is too high.

I could like to know if other people notice this?

Thank you

oldchip




Cable is horrible about this. Most of the commercials come in over
processed...that is, with average level driven closer to the peak, for
greater loudness.

snip

There is an ongoing thread on this topic in sci.electronics.repair (and
perhaps crossposted groups); missing from much of the discussion is the
use of vertical interval clues to mute or attenuate audio during source
changes (commercials). Thoughts?

Michael


There have been attempts for years to achieve this. Trouble is, that
any technical solutions had to be implemented within products for which
such solutions would be contrary to purpose. So, there were compromises
which favored the manufacturer, and its commercial partners.

In each case, where there has been an attempt made, and successful or
practical design implemented, it's been defeated by other interests. An
extreme example being included in TiVo and TiVo-like DVR services, where
an attempt to bypass commercials are met with popups. Or in the case of
one DVR device, the Fast Forward is defeated during commercial messages.
Hacking the hardware has been roadblocked by grinding off the
identification numbers and manufacturers marks of chips on the board.
Hacking the streams for outboard implementation has been met with
inverted or modified video encoding, in some cases, encryption.
Manufacturers are keenly aware that consumers which to have this
ability, but they realize they have a conflicting dog in the hunt, and
commercial interests win out. With technical solutions to prevent the
ultimate intent of the consumer.

And there are a spate of new laws that prohibit modifying the
hardware, the stream, or the output of a commercially provided device to
modify content.

The intent is that we should HAVE to sit through commercials as an
entry fee into enjoying content of our choosing. Like current DVD's,
encoded so one cannot blast past the 15 minutes of commercials and
trailers at the beginning of DVDs on some current DVD players, this
attempt at defeat of intent is being met with greater technological
determination by commercial entities which live and die by advertising.

More importantly, there has been an attempt for some time, now, to
actually define skipping commercials as 'theft of service,' and make it
illegal. This issue was given voice by Ted Turner 10 years ago at a
conference, in which he openly stated that people who skip through, edit
out, mute or otherwise remove commercials from media are guilty of theft
and ought to be prosecuted for their crimes.

Two bills made it to the Senate floor to bring this idea to fruition.

So, while as in warfare, where technical advantages are shortlived
and bested by other technical solutions rather quickly, any attempts
through technology to defeat the intrusion of commercial advertising,
aurally, visually, or otherwise, is going to be transitory at best. And
at worst, will lead to other technical solutions that are far more
oppressive and intrusive than the commercials themselves.

Even now, it's nearly impossible to do it manually.

One TV demonstrated by Sony before advertisers in the mid 90's,
defeated the Mute function during commercials. That's not in production.
Yet. But more sets are now limiting the effectiveness of the 'mute' to
prevent silencing entirely. Precisely for this reason.


So, if loudness of commercials is annoying, the most practical
solution is to raise the levels of surrounding audio through outboard
devices.

Or build your own players and cable interfaces. Because what's
commercially available is simply not going to accomodate what we want,
here.

D Peter Maus wrote:

snip


And there are a spate of new laws that prohibit modifying the
hardware, the stream, or the output of a commercially provided device to
modify content.


snip

More importantly, there has been an attempt for some time, now, to
actually define skipping commercials as 'theft of service,' and make it
illegal.

For awhile in the late '70s and early '80s in some U.S. cities a homeowner
could be subject to an intrusive search of premises if a certain size Yagi
antenna pointed in certain directions was observed on his property; the
intent was to prosecute 'theft of service' of directed pay TV services.

Erosion of freedom of information is one of the most disheartening aspects
of living in this era; the music industries draconian prosecution of suspected
illegal Internet downloading is just the most visible consequence. The absence
of universally accessible library content as popularized by Al Gore's once
proposed "information superhighway" never happened due to IP restrictions
among other limitations (efforts like Wikipedia are not really serious
substitutes IMHO). Too bad Mr. Gore abandoned this cause for another one
more politically popular.

When will people realize that freedom of access to and unfettered rights to use
information is as important to quality of life and advancement of civilization
as the securing of physical and political freedom, and as worthy of sacrifice
to establish and secure?

Commercials on over the air tv and cable tv and satellite tv providers
(I subscribe to DirecTV) are almost always too loud, some of them are
Very Loud.Somebody should invent a MUTE gadget, something that can be
worn on a wrist or around the neck or lay it on the couch armrest.The
MUTE gadget should have nothing more than a Big MUTE button on it and it
would do nothing but MUTE the sound and turn the sound back on when the
MUTE button is slapped again.Invent something like that and you can make
a billion dollars.I have been thinking about removing all of the buttons
except the MUTE button on one of my spare DirecTV tv remotes so I won't
have to waste one or two seconds looking for the MUTE button.I love the
MUTE button on my tv remote.
cuhulin

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
More importantly, there has been an attempt for some time, now, to
actually define skipping commercials as 'theft of service,' and make it
illegal. This issue was given voice by Ted Turner 10 years ago at a
conference, in which he openly stated that people who skip through, edit
out, mute or otherwise remove commercials from media are guilty of theft
and ought to be prosecuted for their crimes.


On a semi-related note...

Sony/BMG are trying to redefine "illegal" regarding fair use of music. I
just read an article saying that they're pushing to make it illegal for you
to rip your own, bought and paid for, CD's to your computer or mp3 player,
regardless of whether you are sharing them or not. Their logic: ripping a CD
to your computer or mp3 player, even after purchasing the CD, is like
"stealing only one copy".

On Jan 7, 2:18 pm, msg wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:

snip



And there are a spate of new laws that prohibit modifying the
hardware, the stream, or the output of a commercially provided device to
modify content.

snip

More importantly, there has been an attempt for some time, now, to
actually define skipping commercials as 'theft of service,' and make it
illegal.

For awhile in the late '70s and early '80s in some U.S. cities a homeowner
could be subject to an intrusive search of premises if a certain size Yagi
antenna pointed in certain directions was observed on his property; the
intent was to prosecute 'theft of service' of directed pay TV services.

Erosion of freedom of information is one of the most disheartening aspects
of living in this era; the music industries draconian prosecution of suspected
illegal Internet downloading is just the most visible consequence. The absence
of universally accessible library content as popularized by Al Gore's once
proposed "information superhighway" never happened due to IP restrictions
among other limitations (efforts like Wikipedia are not really serious
substitutes IMHO). Too bad Mr. Gore abandoned this cause for another one
more politically popular.

When will people realize that freedom of access to and unfettered rights to use
information is as important to quality of life and advancement of civilization
as the securing of physical and political freedom, and as worthy of sacrifice
to establish and secure?

Do you have a site that anyone was actually busted, much less
convicted?
Here in central KY the cable company and I got into a ****ing contest
and
when they leaned on me for my oversize Log Periodic Dipole, I pointed
out
that per FCC rules they shouldn't have any detectable leakage. When
they
sent nastygrams, I responded with a impromptu net on the 6M frequency
they used as the low band AGC control reference.

They called me and begged me to call it off and even offered free
cable
and I told them pound sand and complained to the FCC. They got cited
and had to clean up their leakage. No "if ands or but". Clean it up of
shut
it down.

I can still detect and if I cared pull in enough signal to watch any
unscrambled
signal, but since I don't and didn't watch TV, I used the LPD for VHF
and UHF
scanning. The fact my antenna was mounted in the vertical axis instead
of
the normal horizontal axis.

Of the many things I worry about in life, being nailed for picking up
illegal CATV
from leakage is way down on my list.

Terry

On Jan 7, 3:46*am, Steven Ramirez wrote:
I use Time Wanner Cable in New York City. *And I notice that when
commericals come on the volume level is too high.

I could like to know if other people notice this?

Thank you

oldchip


SDF Public Access UNIX System -http://sdf.lonestar.org

SR - Yes and my Cable TV Remote Control has a "Mute" Button
on it to help solve this repetitive and annoying problem. ~ RHF

wrote:

On Jan 7, 2:18 pm, msg wrote:

snip

For awhile in the late '70s and early '80s in some U.S. cities a homeowner
could be subject to an intrusive search of premises if a certain size Yagi
antenna pointed in certain directions was observed on his property; the
intent was to prosecute 'theft of service' of directed pay TV services.

snip

Do you have a site that anyone was actually busted, much less convicted?

One would need to inspect the police blotter from legal newspapers in the
Twin Cities seven county metro area in that time frame; the issue was a
hot topic of the time; archives of the Mpls. Star-Tribune would have
articles. But yes, there were prosecutions and convictions and challenges
to the law which IIRC eventually succeeded, and IIRC involved hams
who were subjected to arrest and prosecution. Rather than cable leakage,
the service was a directed broadcast of pay TV (HBO at the time) from the
tallest building in downtown Mpls.

Here in central KY the cable company and I got into a ****ing contest
and when they leaned on me for my oversize Log Periodic Dipole, I pointed
out that per FCC rules they shouldn't have any detectable leakage. When
they sent nastygrams, I responded with a impromptu net on the 6M frequency
they used as the low band AGC control reference.

Tip of the hat to you on that one ;-)

Michael