Bob wrote:
On Jul 13, 12:44 am, D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
D Peter Maus wrote:
Dave wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Jul 12, 10:14 am, Dave wrote:
- - RHF wrote:
- -
- - RHF Replies : Dave - No !
- - More Drilling in the USofA ia Helping Every Day and
- - in US States like North Dakota : New Oil Wells are
- - Creating New Millionaires right here in the US
- - versus- Enriching the Saudis and Funding Al Qaeda
- - and the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists.
- WTF is an "Islam-O-Fascist"?
-wrt- Islamofascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism
- Conservation is the only way to quickly reduce prices.
- Period.
Dave - 'Increased Supply' and 'Reduced Demand'
is the only way to permanently Reduce Prices [.]
The one thing that personal 'conservation' does is to
Reduce your overall Personal {out-fo-pocket} Cost to
You in the Short Term.
OLD - You Driving 600 Miles @ 20MPG and using 30 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $120 for Gas.
NEW - You Driving 450 Miles @ 20MPG and using 22.5 Gallons
of Gas a Week @ $4.00 per Gallon with a Total Weekly Cost
of $90 for Gas.
RESULT - Your personal Reduction of 150 Miles Driven
by 25% results in a Personal Cost Savings of 25% ~$30
per Week.
The ONLY WAY Conservation Works : Is When It Is Done
Equally By All : That Takes Some Form of Mandatory
Restrictions {Rationing} on Gas Use Age for All Drivers.
You are wrong. Raising prices forces conservation just as well as
some stupid rule.
Conservation does not result in independence.
There is not enough oil in the USA to make us "independent". Let the
Chinese have the muck, we can go virtually all-electric (including cars)
within a decade. Now would be a good time, as the economy's in the
****ter anyway.
There is more oil just off shore of the US than all of OPEC combined.
Off California it's being pushed through the silt on the ocean floor and
floating to the surface at Oily Point...named by the native Indians more
than 400 years ago.

There is so much very old petroleum under the Gulf it's pushing
through the silt and pooling on the Gulf floor.

Off Florida, there is more oil under the ocean floor that the Chinese
are setting up outside of our territorial waters to begin drilling in a
single deposit that our own facilities can access just a few miles offshore.

Yes, we have the oil.

As for electric cars...a great idea that's already seeing resistance
in several states. Wisconsin has banned them in 12 counties. With more
counties on the way. And several states are looking at placing enormous
restrictions on their us. California is one of them. Illinois is
another. Not just the NEV's that are starting to hit the market, but
electrics in general.

Why? To protect the tax stream. Wisconsin is the state that tells gas
station owners what they must charge for a gallon of gasoline, and
blocks discount promotions because the lower price reduces tax collection.

Conservation will not put a single gallon of gas on the market at a
lower price. Nor will it reduce demand, prices, or shortages.

Electric is definitely the way to go. I have no problem agreeing
there. Tesla has proven the technology exists to make a practical, if
expensive, electric car with good performance. But politics in these
matters are another matter.

As long as politicians have a say, electric cars are going to remain
the stuff of dreams. Get them out of the way, and a lot of things can
change.

The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen and that type of vehicle should have
been further tax "incentivised" and long term mandated by now.

If we all start plugging our cars into the grid, most of that
electricity comes from fossil fueled facilities, and under current
political climate any added generation would almost certainly be oil
or gas fired. Nuclear is a dirty word, and so is any type of coal...

Bob

Like I said...as long as there are politicians involved...

harvey wrote:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic39902.html

Produce more cars

sell them to China and India and Saudi Arabia

they all need gasoline

Price goes up.


There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

In article ,
Dave wrote:

harvey wrote:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic39902.html

Produce more cars

sell them to China and India and Saudi Arabia

they all need gasoline

Price goes up.


There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.

I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10

I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.

I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10

I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?


mike


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blocks all postings from Gmail, Google Mail and Google Groups.

http://improve-usenet.org/

"Billy Burpelson" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please realize
that *nothing* is lossless.

In the grand scheme, this is not true. The law of conservation of mass and
energy states that there is no loss in the conversion process.

Brenda Ann wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...
True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please realize
that *nothing* is lossless.

In the grand scheme, this is not true. The law of conservation of mass and
energy states that there is no loss in the conversion process.


'Lost to the process we desired' or 'Inadvertently misdirected' would
mean the same thing that BB meant.


mike (and entropy continues to increase) II

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In article CrBek.4457$7%6.2579@edtnps82, m II wrote:

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.

I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10

I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?

Peter is correct about that.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.
I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10
I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?

Peter is correct about that.


If both Peter and Dave said the same thing, why is one of them a nut case?


mike

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Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage,
this filter blocks all postings with a Gmail,
Google Mail or Google Groups address.

http://improve-usenet.org/

m II wrote:
Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.

What a nut case.
I'm putting your brain on Ebay for a minimum bid of $0.10
I figure someone will pay it just to kick it around.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?
Peter is correct about that.


If both Peter and Dave said the same thing, why is one of them a nut case?




What makes you think only one of us is?

Telamon wrote:

There is no shortage of crude oil. If we make more, they make less.
Price is controlled by value of the dollar as much as anything.


D. Peter Maus said there's so much of it that it's bubbling up out of
the ocean floor. In numerous places. Is he also a nut case?

Peter is correct about that.

And I'm not correct about the imagined shortage? We outsource
everything else; why not outsource the environmental degradation of
crude oil production?