On Jul 13, 10:16*am, Billy Burpelson wrote:
Bob wrote:
The problem with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
In hybrids, it comes from regen

Not quite true. The electricity used by an electric car does -not- "come
from regen" [erative braking]. This is a clever technique to recapture a
bit of energy when braking. To believe otherwise is akin to believing in
perpetual motion. The vast majority of the energy an electric car uses
is from either a power plant [the 'grid'] or from the on-board gasoline
tank that powers an internal combustion engine/generator.

That's why I said "in hybrids" when I mentioned regen...

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss and then lose
more in line losses. The emmisions in today's ulev cars are getting
down there. I guess I'd just like some common sense inserted into the
discussion and some real energy balance calculations made to help
clarify things. It seems that the politicians and environmentalists
aren't too interested in other scientific input.

Bob

Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please
realize that *nothing* is lossless. The point I was trying to emphasize
about electric vehicles is that you are centralizing pollution control
at a (relatively) few power plants rather than over millions of cars
with IC engines.

...and then lose more in line losses.

Not as much as you might think, at least not since AC won out over DC
transmission around the turn of the last century (Bless you Mr. Tesla,
Mr. Westinghouse). Power is sent at extremely high voltages (so lower
current) to minimize the I squared R (power) loss. And once again, the
whole point is centralization, acceptable losses notwithstanding.

It seems that the politicians and environmentalists aren't too
interested in other scientific input.

Bob, you don't know how right you are. The current Administration has
been notorious for ignoring science.

Billy Burpelson wrote:

Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please
realize that *nothing* is lossless. The point I was trying to emphasize
about electric vehicles is that you are centralizing pollution control
at a (relatively) few power plants rather than over millions of cars
with IC engines.

...and then lose more in line losses.

Not as much as you might think, at least not since AC won out over DC
transmission around the turn of the last century (Bless you Mr. Tesla,
Mr. Westinghouse). Power is sent at extremely high voltages (so lower
current) to minimize the I squared R (power) loss. And once again, the
whole point is centralization, acceptable losses notwithstanding.

It seems that the politicians and environmentalists aren't too
interested in other scientific input.

Bob, you don't know how right you are. The current Administration has
been notorious for ignoring science.

Yep, Bill Clinton was well known for being interested in science. :-)

Bob wrote:

It seems that the politicians and environmentalists aren't too
interested in other scientific input.

Billy Burpelson wrote:

Bob, you don't know how right you are. The current Administration
has been notorious for ignoring science.

dxAce wrote:

Yep, Bill Clinton was well known for being interested in science. :-)

Um, that wouldn't have been the scientific study he did on cigar
flavorings, was it?

"Billy Burpelson" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...

True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please realize
that *nothing* is lossless.

In the grand scheme, this is not true. The law of conservation of mass and
energy states that there is no loss in the conversion process.

Brenda Ann wrote:

The other concern is the losses in the grid distribution. We use oil
based fuels to generate electricity at a conversion loss...
True...no one has repealed the laws of thermodynamics. But please realize
that *nothing* is lossless.

In the grand scheme, this is not true. The law of conservation of mass and
energy states that there is no loss in the conversion process.


'Lost to the process we desired' or 'Inadvertently misdirected' would
mean the same thing that BB meant.


mike (and entropy continues to increase) II

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