ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

I said that the ambient noise from the car itself as well as road noise
are
such that most stereo information is lost or imperceptible in vehicles
and,
thus, not appreciated. In addition, the processing on nearly all stations
reduces the dynamic range, so the stereo effect of different levels from
left and right is eliminated... and that applies to any listening
location.

It's easy to perceive depending on the material. Say a different
instrument comes from left and right at the same volume. Easy to tell
even with road noise.

Part of the perception of dimension comes from dynamic range. Radio so
limits range that the information is lost and the ability to interpret
spatial relationsips is diminished.

That's right Eduardo, dynamic range only plays a part in stereo.

I said that there were stations that got the stereo light to shine
without actually being in stereo. The objective was deceiptful, as
what they wanted was to make people think that the station was
stereo when it wasn't. Most people never figured that out as they
couldn't tell the difference.

How am I supposed to know about most people. You saying most people
are stupid then?

No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because
the lit stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

I can't speak for most people and neither can you. I am quite capable of
telling the difference.

I don't believe the 60% mono figure. You are not making any
sense at all today.

I really don't care what you believe as you have no data to the
contrary while the radio industry has countless valid surveys.

People don't lie in the surveys? Mistakes are not made? Silly
people like you are not around to misinterpret the data?


My staff does about a hundred thousand interviews a year, all of
which I can monitor. We see no indication of lies, since lying about
a station or about music they like has no gain. QC will avoid
mistakes, and a percentage of reconfirm callbacks can achieve that.
As to the interpretation, we've done better in the ratings than any
other major player over the last years, so we must be doing our
research, interpretation and implementation quite well.

You do not understand the scientific process and bias the results of
your interviews in a number of ways so the results fit your preconceived
notions. Do continue to fool yourself.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

In article ,
"Frank Dresser" wrote:

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

[snip]


No, most people don't realize there is no stereo separation because the
lit
stereo light convinces them it is stereo when it is not.

[snip]

Let's not forget about modern FM car radios. My car's radio blends from
stereo to mono quite seamlessly as signals become less than ideal. If I pay
attention, I'll notice that the reception is in weak stereo or full mono
much of the time. That's preferable because there's practially no distorted
audio, abrupt switches from stereo to mono and picket fencing that come with
full time stereo car radios. All the while, the stereo light never blinks
off.

The stereo indicator only lights when a 19KHz pilot carrier is present.
The program material could be monophonic or stereo.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

In article
,
Tom wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:17*am, Telamon
wrote:
Look, I understand that there are limiter and processors but I just
can't believe most stations compress music into a 6 dB range. That's
just not right.


You're both right: FM system dynamic range may be on the order of 70
dB while the occupied dynamic range may be the top 6 dB for 95% of the
time on many stations. The dynamic range between a comfortable
loudness and ambient noise may be as much as 30-35 dB in the average
home or as little as 10-20 dB in an automobile. Stations that process
for the ideal home listening environment will have frustrated
listeners in the car if they carry wide dynamic range content such as
classical music and vice versa.

That's not what he meant Tom. Eduardo thinks that is the entire dynamic
range is 6 dB.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

The fact is that the Arbitron diary methodology and implementation are
accredited by the Media Research Council, made up mostly of some of the
best
statisticians and surveying technologists in the country who work at the
behest of the advertising and agency communities. The purpose is to
guarantee that proper techniques and procedures are used so that the data
is
reliable within the ocnstraints of the limits of polling.

Bunch of malarky. Preconceived ideas implemented by one group beholden
to another. That might be your kind of vetting but most would not fall
for it.

The MRC represents the interests of advertisers, who are beholden to neither
the media nor the ratings companies. At most times, they are adversarial.

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:


Brenda Ann already told you... about 6 db

Well, I guess the stations WANT the LISTENER to get FATIGUED listening
to their station so they turn it off then.

See "Tom's" post below. The reason for reduced dynamic range is to always be
above the ambient noise in the listening environment.

In addition, over time we have found that a station that is not loud is also
perceived as being "weak" and is thus not considered a good station.

No, I stand with the industry, which is a very different condition. I've
been on so many NAB, RAB, NAFMB, AIR, NAB Europe, Billboard, R&R, PRBA
and
other panels that I have lost track of them. I would not be there were my
opinions and interpretations not respected and welcome.

All a blur? You can imagine quite a bit in a short period of time
apparently.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:
..

Limiting is a form of compression since it removes excursions in excess
of
the level that would produce 100% modulation (or 100% negative peaks on
AM).

Not really. Limiting is a hard stop that is not ever passed. Compression
is an algorithm applied to the program material that attempts to prevent
reaching that max limit but it could go over limit in extreme
circumstances.

That's the definition that fit 30 years ago. Today, audio processers like
the Optimod and the Omnia employ delay to look ahead at the audio, then,
with advance knowledge, know when to reduce gain to prevent the need to peak
limit by hard clipping. So what we have is a merging of the concept of
compression and peak limiting. It's all achieved by looking ahead to know
how to process the audio that then heads to the transmitter.

It's what works.

I don't think so. Maybe that's why I can't listen to most FM stations as
you helped pervert the sound.

There are about 30,000 stations in the Western Hemisphere. I can't see how
one person's adjustments can influence all of them.

The real truth is that stations have realized that a sound that is loud,
level and specttrally balanced wins if the programming is right.

Today's radio sounds infinitely better than it did 30 or 40 years ago.

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Tom wrote:

On Oct 19, 2:17 am, Telamon
wrote:
Look, I understand that there are limiter and processors but I just
can't believe most stations compress music into a 6 dB range. That's
just not right.


You're both right: FM system dynamic range may be on the order of 70
dB while the occupied dynamic range may be the top 6 dB for 95% of the
time on many stations. The dynamic range between a comfortable
loudness and ambient noise may be as much as 30-35 dB in the average
home or as little as 10-20 dB in an automobile. Stations that process
for the ideal home listening environment will have frustrated
listeners in the car if they carry wide dynamic range content such as
classical music and vice versa.

That's not what he meant Tom. Eduardo thinks that is the entire dynamic
range is 6 dB.

Tom is clairying that the dynamic range of the FM system vs. the dynamic
range of the program content broadcasters put into the system.

As Tom says, about 95% of the time the material on air is somewhere in the
vicinity of a 6 db dynamic range.

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

The fact is that the Arbitron diary methodology and implementation are
accredited by the Media Research Council, made up mostly of some of the
best
statisticians and surveying technologists in the country who work at the
behest of the advertising and agency communities. The purpose is to
guarantee that proper techniques and procedures are used so that the data
is
reliable within the ocnstraints of the limits of polling.

Bunch of malarky. Preconceived ideas implemented by one group beholden
to another. That might be your kind of vetting but most would not fall
for it.

The MRC represents the interests of advertisers, who are beholden to neither
the media nor the ratings companies. At most times, they are adversarial.

Yeah right. Keep on dreaming.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:


Brenda Ann already told you... about 6 db

Well, I guess the stations WANT the LISTENER to get FATIGUED listening
to their station so they turn it off then.

See "Tom's" post below. The reason for reduced dynamic range is to always be
above the ambient noise in the listening environment.

In addition, over time we have found that a station that is not loud is also
perceived as being "weak" and is thus not considered a good station.

SNIP

I go right on by those "loud" stations. Now I understand why I no longer
listen to FM except for the classical music stations.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

ibiquity AM hybrid digital radio provides little consumer benefits
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

The MRC represents the interests of advertisers, who are beholden to
neither
the media nor the ratings companies. At most times, they are adversarial.

Yeah right. Keep on dreaming.

Obviously, you have never been in a radio station negotiation with an ad
agency. Or seen how an MRC decision caused Arbitron shares to lose 30% of
their value in 2007.

"Adversarial" may not have been a strong enough term... "gladiatorial" may
be a better fit.