okay. After posting, I just tiik a look at the federal ecpa law again.
And IF the hams are correct that federal law ALWAYS supercedes anf
trumps local and state laws, then it is legal for cbers and other non-
hams to have scanners in their vehicles no matter what state and local
laws say.

The ECPA clearly says it shall not be unlawful to listen to police
transmissions (as long as they're unencrypred).

And it does not mention any places where you're not allowed to listen
to them.

In other words, it shall not be unlawful period to listen to police
transmissions.

Anywhere within the U.S.

Unless of course the hams are wrong and state and local laws supercede
and trump federal law.


Which is it?

state and local laws superceding and trumping federal law so non-hams
listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is a crime.

or federal law superceding and trumping state and local laws so non-
hams listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is not a
crime.

copy of part of the text of the FEDERAL ecpa law:

"(g)it shall not be unlawful under this
chapter or chapter 121 this title for
Post p. 1860 any person---
"(i)to intercept or access an
electronic communication made through
an electronic communication system
that is configured so that such
electronic communication is readily
accessible to the general public;
"(ii) to intercept any radio
communication which is transmitted--
"(I) by any station for the use
of the general public, or that
relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles,
or persons in distress;
"(II)by any governmental, law
enforcement, civil defense, private
land mobile, or public safety
communications system, including
police and fire, readily accessible
to the general public;"

There you have it, folks. It shall NOT be unlawful to intercept any
radio communication which is transmitted by any governmental,LAW
ENFORCEMENT,civil defense,private land mobile, or public
communications system INCLUDING POLICE and fire, readily accessible to
the general public (meaning not encrypted. If you can hear them on a
regular analog scanner, they are definitely unencrypted.)

That is federal law.

"(III) by a station operating on
an authorized frequency within the
bands allocated to the amateur,
citizens band, or general mobile
radio services; or

Interesting because even after the ecpa passed, certain hams around my
area told me that it is against the law to listen to ham radio at all
on any radio reciever unless you have a ham radio license.

"(IV) by any marine or
aeronautical communications system;

I've listened to the airband. Boring.

In article
,
radioguy wrote:

okay. After posting, I just tiik a look at the federal ecpa law again.
And IF the hams are correct that federal law ALWAYS supercedes anf
trumps local and state laws, then it is legal for cbers and other non-
hams to have scanners in their vehicles no matter what state and local
laws say.

The ECPA clearly says it shall not be unlawful to listen to police
transmissions (as long as they're unencrypred).

And it does not mention any places where you're not allowed to listen
to them.

In other words, it shall not be unlawful period to listen to police
transmissions.

Anywhere within the U.S.

Unless of course the hams are wrong and state and local laws supercede
and trump federal law.


Which is it?

I edited the cross posting.

If it was unlawful then selling scanners that cover the police band
would be banned. They are not banned and they are not unlawful to use.
Some states regulate whether they can be used in a car however.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

On Dec 23, 8:03�pm, radioguy wrote:
okay. After posting, I just tiik a look at the federal ecpa law again.
And IF the hams are correct that federal law ALWAYS supercedes anf
trumps local and state laws, then it is legal for cbers and other non-
hams to have scanners in their vehicles no matter what state and local
laws say.

The ECPA clearly says it shall not be unlawful to listen to police
transmissions (as long as they're unencrypred).

And it does not mention any places where you're not allowed to listen
to them.

In other words, it shall not be unlawful period to listen to police
transmissions.

Anywhere within the U.S.

Unless of course the hams are wrong and state and local laws supercede
and trump federal law.

Which is it?

state and local laws superceding and trumping federal law so non-hams
listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is a crime.

or federal law superceding and trumping state and local laws so non-
hams listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is not a
crime.

copy of part of the text of the FEDERAL ecpa law:

"(g)it shall not be unlawful under this
chapter or chapter 121 this title for
Post p. 1860 any person---
"(i)to intercept or access an
electronic communication made through
an electronic communication system
that is configured so that such
electronic communication is readily
accessible to the general public;
"(ii) to intercept any radio
communication which is transmitted--
"(I) by any station for the use
of the general public, or that
relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles,
or persons in distress;
"(II)by any governmental, law
enforcement, civil defense, private
land mobile, or public safety
communications system, including
police and fire, readily accessible
to the general public;"

There you have it, folks. It shall NOT be unlawful to intercept any
radio communication which is transmitted by any governmental,LAW
ENFORCEMENT,civil defense,private land mobile, or public
communications system INCLUDING POLICE and fire, readily accessible to
the general public (meaning not encrypted. If you can hear them on a
regular analog scanner, they are definitely unencrypted.)

That is federal law.

"(III) by a station operating on
an authorized frequency within the
bands allocated to the amateur,
citizens band, or general mobile
radio services; or

Interesting because even after the ecpa passed, certain hams around my
area told me that it is against the law to listen to ham radio at all
on any radio reciever unless you have a ham radio license.

"(IV) by any marine or
aeronautical communications system;

I've listened to the airband. Boring.


The problem with your logic chain starts with the assumption that
federal law supercedes state laws. In some types of statues dealing
with universal rights (freedom to vote, anti-segregation and other
types of statues relating to civil rights) it does. When it comes to
general regulations, deference is given to state and localities.
Conservatives have long trumpeted this division of deference to be the
linchpin of shared federalism between the national gov't and states.

Study constitutional law, it matters!

Mike
Louisville, KY

Michael "I'm a college professor with a PhD" Bryant wrote:

On Dec 23, 8:03�pm, radioguy wrote:
okay. After posting, I just tiik a look at the federal ecpa law again.
And IF the hams are correct that federal law ALWAYS supercedes anf
trumps local and state laws, then it is legal for cbers and other non-
hams to have scanners in their vehicles no matter what state and local
laws say.

The ECPA clearly says it shall not be unlawful to listen to police
transmissions (as long as they're unencrypred).

And it does not mention any places where you're not allowed to listen
to them.

In other words, it shall not be unlawful period to listen to police
transmissions.

Anywhere within the U.S.

Unless of course the hams are wrong and state and local laws supercede
and trump federal law.

Which is it?

state and local laws superceding and trumping federal law so non-hams
listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is a crime.

or federal law superceding and trumping state and local laws so non-
hams listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is not a
crime.

copy of part of the text of the FEDERAL ecpa law:

"(g)it shall not be unlawful under this
chapter or chapter 121 this title for
Post p. 1860 any person---
"(i)to intercept or access an
electronic communication made through
an electronic communication system
that is configured so that such
electronic communication is readily
accessible to the general public;
"(ii) to intercept any radio
communication which is transmitted--
"(I) by any station for the use
of the general public, or that
relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles,
or persons in distress;
"(II)by any governmental, law
enforcement, civil defense, private
land mobile, or public safety
communications system, including
police and fire, readily accessible
to the general public;"

There you have it, folks. It shall NOT be unlawful to intercept any
radio communication which is transmitted by any governmental,LAW
ENFORCEMENT,civil defense,private land mobile, or public
communications system INCLUDING POLICE and fire, readily accessible to
the general public (meaning not encrypted. If you can hear them on a
regular analog scanner, they are definitely unencrypted.)

That is federal law.

"(III) by a station operating on
an authorized frequency within the
bands allocated to the amateur,
citizens band, or general mobile
radio services; or

Interesting because even after the ecpa passed, certain hams around my
area told me that it is against the law to listen to ham radio at all
on any radio reciever unless you have a ham radio license.

"(IV) by any marine or
aeronautical communications system;

I've listened to the airband. Boring.

The problem with your logic chain starts with the assumption that
federal law supercedes state laws. In some types of statues dealing
with universal rights (freedom to vote, anti-segregation and other
types of statues relating to civil rights) it does. When it comes to
general regulations, deference is given to state and localities.
Conservatives have long trumpeted this division of deference to be the
linchpin of shared federalism between the national gov't and states.

Study constitutional law, it matters!

You should have studied for that PhD, then you wouldn't have had to lie about
having one.

dxAce wrote:

Study constitutional law, it matters!

You should have studied for that PhD, then you wouldn't have had to lie about
having one.



Yes you should,
Ever hear of the commerce clause?

There are thousands of Federal laws that trump State laws.

The bad part about the issues at hand is
the state can confiscate your stuff.
and you have to spend thousands to prove they were wrong.

On Dec 24, 3:38*pm, Raven wrote:
dxAce wrote:
Study constitutional law, it matters!

You should have studied for that PhD, then you wouldn't have had to lie about
having one.

Yes you should,
Ever hear of the commerce clause?

There are thousands of Federal laws that trump State laws.

The bad part about the issues at hand is
the state can confiscate your stuff.
and you have to spend thousands to prove they were wrong.

It works both ways there are Federal laws that overule state laws and
stae laws that overule federal laws. Kidnapping is a state crime but
made federal if you cross a state line with the victim. All federal
civil rights laws trump state laws unless the state's is more liberal.
I think most federal laws have a clause stating how they relate to
state laws. As clear as mud isnt it. The American Civil Liberties
Union is the place to contact tfor information on specific laws. I
believe they have already been involved in some cases in Virginia.

Jimmie

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:

...
It works both ways there are Federal laws that overule state laws and
stae laws that overule federal laws. Kidnapping is a state crime but
made federal if you cross a state line with the victim. All federal
civil rights laws trump state laws unless the state's is more liberal.
I think most federal laws have a clause stating how they relate to
state laws. As clear as mud isnt it. The American Civil Liberties
Union is the place to contact tfor information on specific laws. I
believe they have already been involved in some cases in Virginia.

Jimmie

Jimmie

Yeah, but, I was always going to write the script for a TV story ...

Cutting to the quick, a guy has his his wife killed by a very bad man.
The guy then figures out who this very bad man is, kills him, buries him
in his back yard and gets away scott-free!

But then, you can tell, I'd never make it as a writer, and how would
anyone make an hour-and-a-half movie out of that single paragraph???? grin

Regards,
JS

On Dec 23 2008, 8:55*pm, Mike wrote:
On Dec 23, 8:03 pm, radioguy wrote:





okay. After posting, I just tiik a look at the federal ecpa law again.
And IF the hams are correct that federal law ALWAYS supercedes anf
trumps local and state laws, then it is legal for cbers and other non-
hams to have scanners in their vehicles no matter what state and local
laws say.

The ECPA clearly says it shall not be unlawful to listen to police
transmissions (as long as they're unencrypred).

And it does not mention any places where you're not allowed to listen
to them.

In other words, it shall not be unlawful period to listen to police
transmissions.

Anywhere within the U.S.

Unless of course the hams are wrong and state and local laws supercede
and trump federal law.

Which is it?

state and local laws superceding and trumping federal law so non-hams
listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is a crime.

or federal law superceding and trumping state and local laws so non-
hams listening to police transmissions in their vehicles is not a
crime.

copy of part of the text of the FEDERAL ecpa law:

"(g)it shall not be unlawful under this
chapter or chapter 121 this title for
Post p. 1860 any person---
"(i)to intercept or access an
electronic communication made through
an electronic communication system
that is configured so that such
electronic communication is readily
accessible to the general public;
"(ii) to intercept any radio
communication which is transmitted--
"(I) by any station for the use
of the general public, or that
relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles,
or persons in distress;
"(II)by any governmental, law
enforcement, civil defense, private
land mobile, or public safety
communications system, including
police and fire, readily accessible
to the general public;"

There you have it, folks. It shall NOT be unlawful to intercept any
radio communication which is transmitted by any governmental,LAW
ENFORCEMENT,civil defense,private land mobile, or public
communications system INCLUDING POLICE and fire, readily accessible to
the general public (meaning not encrypted. If you can hear them on a
regular analog scanner, they are definitely unencrypted.)

That is federal law.

"(III) by a station operating on
an authorized frequency within the
bands allocated to the amateur,
citizens band, or general mobile
radio services; or

Interesting because even after the ecpa passed, certain hams around my
area told me that it is against the law to listen to ham radio at all
on any radio reciever unless you have a ham radio license.

"(IV) by any marine or
aeronautical communications system;

I've listened to the airband. Boring.

The problem with your logic chain starts with the assumption that
federal law supercedes state laws. In some types of statues dealing
with universal rights (freedom to vote, anti-segregation and other
types of statues relating to civil rights) it does. When it comes to
general regulations, deference is given to state and localities.
Conservatives have long trumpeted this division of deference to be the
linchpin of shared federalism between the national gov't and states.

Study constitutional law, it matters!

Mike
Louisville, KY- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

While what I learned in school agrees with what you say, 99.99 percent
of the hams have said exactly the opposite and have even said that
there
have been SEVERAL federal court rulings which ruled and upheld the
opposite of what you and I were taught.

"radioguy" wrote in message
...

Irregardless of the ecpa, try to listen in on military tactical comms and
let them find out about it.. they tend to call that espionage. Which is why
most scanners don't have the tactical freqs. in them...

Also, it depends upon your USE of the intercepted comms. There is an
enhancement for using a police scanner in furtherance of a crime.

Brenda Ann wrote:

...
Also, it depends upon your USE of the intercepted comms. There is an
enhancement for using a police scanner in furtherance of a crime.



In most SDRs, it is only software (firmware in the cheaper ones), it is
only a matter of tweaking the source code to receive any freq within
range of the circuitry, or reprogramming the PIC in the cheaper ones ...

The military should always use deep encryption if they are
serious--otherwise, I would suspect you were only receiving
transmissions of non-importance, or those broadcast for disinformation
purposes ...

Regards,
JS