The CGC Communicator Newsletter

Web Posting

(The following email exchange, posted here on 5/30/09, suggests serious
negative impact to KSGN's signal, from IBOC operations. -sb)

-----Original Message-----
From: KG6VSW (at) gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Bruce Potterton @ KSGN(FM)
Subject: Weekend signal improvement

Message from Bryce Foster:

Greetings,

For the last few days, until recently, KCRW on 89.9 had an outage on
their IBOC system. As a DX'er and a listener to KSGN, I was curious as
to how much impact this would have on your signal.

The improvement in coverage and signal quality in western areas of your
coverage area was remarkable. I often spend time on the weekends in the
Victorville area, and this weekend I made the drive from my home in
Whittier to Victorville on both Saturday and Sunday, and was able to
observe the signal improvement along the 605 and 210 freeways.

From my location in Whittier, until approximately the 605-10 junction,
your signal was quite strong. Normally your signal is almost
non-existent due to IBOC interference, and is limited to brief, rapid
fade ups out of the noise.

Along the 210, your signal was marginal along the foothills until just
before the 210-57 junction, where it reached full strength and stayed
strong until the Cajon Pass. Normally the IBOC noise dominates 89.7 on
the 210 until near the San Bernardino line in Upland. This amounts to
about 10 miles of distance that IBOC costs you on the 210.

It is too bad that this lousy "technology" is such a detriment to your
signal. In many areas of Eastern L.A. county, KFSH and the 90.3 Air1
translators are about the only options for Christian music, and both
have major signal problems in the area. Without the IBOC, you had a much
better signal than both of them in these areas.

I hope this useful, I'm not sure if you have considered the impact of
KCRW's IBOC before, or if anyone else has complained. Most people who
experience the degraded signal probably do not know the cause, I suspect
there is a sizeable amount of listeners that are lost due to this
interference.

Regards,
Bryce Foster - KG6VSW

________


On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Bruce Potterton bpotterton (at)
ksgn.com wrote:

Hi Bryce,

Thank you very much for your reception report. It confirms what we have
suspected for quite some time. We first noted the IBOC interference
shortly after KCRW started their IBOC transmission, when we noticed a
huge drop in listenership in the East LA Arbitron survey reports.

It is unfortunate that the FCC has allowed this "legal" form of
interference. It is even more frightening that the FCC is considering
allowing IBOC transmissions to increase power to -10dB, an increase of
10db power. I just got word that the FCC may make a ruling on this
docket Before the completion of an ongoing comprehensive NPR research
project designed to determine the amount of interference such additional
power will cause interference to analog signals.

It would be a great help to us and other analog broadcasters if you
would send comments urging the FCC to postpone any decision in this
matter until AFTER the completion of the NPR study.

Below I have copied an excerpt for the "CGC Communicator", (a newsletter
published by Robert Gnosett, Consulting Engineer):

COMMENTS NEEDED ON PROPOSED FM HD RADIO POWER INCREASE

The FCC is requesting comments on specific issues regarding the
proposed +10 dB FM HD Radio (IBOC) power increase. Watch out. For one
thing, the Commission is considering granting power increases before
NPR's detailed interference studies are completed -- the first
comprehensive studies in this field.

The Commission needs to hear from you. The message is: Wait
until the facts are determined before doing anything. Analog FM could
suffer serious and permanent damage by premature HD power increases.
There is a short time frame for filing Comments.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-09-1127A1.doc


I believe your listening report would be of great interest to the
broadcast engineering community in general. May I have your permission
to pass it on to Robert Gonsett, so that he may include it in an
upcoming issue of the CGC Communicator?

Thank you again for your report and your interest in listening to 89.7 KSGN.

Bruce Potterton
Engineer, KSGN

________

From: Bryce Foster [mailto:kg6vsw (at) gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:44 PM
To: Bruce Potterton @ KSGN(FM)
Subject: Weekend signal improvement

Hi Bruce,

Feel free to forward my comments along to whoever you'd like. I'm glad
they are of interest!

I can imagine that the appx. 10 miles of coverage lost on the 210 is
reflected throughout Eastern Los Angeles county and would account for
the hit in your ratings here, particularly in areas where terrain favors
signals to the south and west.

I was aware of the 10db power boost proposal, but I hadn't heard about
it in a while until you brought this up. I would be glad to send a
comment to the FCC, and I can relay this tidbit of information to the FM
DXing list I belong to if that would help. Obviously our interests are a
bit biased, but the harmful effects of IBOC go beyond DXing when it
legitmately causes interference. I'm not sure where exactly your
protected countour falls, but regardless, even "out-of-market" listeners
would seem to be valuable as a non-commercial station, as their
donations and support are just as good as someone down the street from
the transmitter site.

Best wishes - I hope further harm can be avoided, and am glad to see
that not all broadcasters are completely on-board with the expansion of
IBOC to destructive levels.

- Bryce

Posted by Steve Blodgett
Earthsignals.com

http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/KSGN_IBOC.htm

On Jun 1, 8:42 am, dave wrote:
The CGC Communicator Newsletter

Web Posting

(The following email exchange, posted here on 5/30/09, suggests serious
negative impact to KSGN's signal, from IBOC operations. -sb)

-----Original Message-----
From: KG6VSW (at) gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:51 PM
To: Bruce Potterton @ KSGN(FM)
Subject: Weekend signal improvement

Message from Bryce Foster:

Greetings,

For the last few days, until recently, KCRW on 89.9 had an outage on
their IBOC system. As a DX'er and a listener to KSGN, I was curious as
to how much impact this would have on your signal.

The improvement in coverage and signal quality in western areas of your
coverage area was remarkable. I often spend time on the weekends in the
Victorville area, and this weekend I made the drive from my home in
Whittier to Victorville on both Saturday and Sunday, and was able to
observe the signal improvement along the 605 and 210 freeways.

From my location in Whittier, until approximately the 605-10 junction,
your signal was quite strong. Normally your signal is almost
non-existent due to IBOC interference, and is limited to brief, rapid
fade ups out of the noise.

Along the 210, your signal was marginal along the foothills until just
before the 210-57 junction, where it reached full strength and stayed
strong until the Cajon Pass. Normally the IBOC noise dominates 89.7 on
the 210 until near the San Bernardino line in Upland. This amounts to
about 10 miles of distance that IBOC costs you on the 210.

It is too bad that this lousy "technology" is such a detriment to your
signal. In many areas of Eastern L.A. county, KFSH and the 90.3 Air1
translators are about the only options for Christian music, and both
have major signal problems in the area. Without the IBOC, you had a much
better signal than both of them in these areas.

I hope this useful, I'm not sure if you have considered the impact of
KCRW's IBOC before, or if anyone else has complained. Most people who
experience the degraded signal probably do not know the cause, I suspect
there is a sizeable amount of listeners that are lost due to this
interference.

Regards,
Bryce Foster - KG6VSW

________

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 8:46 AM, Bruce Potterton bpotterton (at)
ksgn.com wrote:

Hi Bryce,

Thank you very much for your reception report. It confirms what we have
suspected for quite some time. We first noted the IBOC interference
shortly after KCRW started their IBOC transmission, when we noticed a
huge drop in listenership in the East LA Arbitron survey reports.

It is unfortunate that the FCC has allowed this "legal" form of
interference. It is even more frightening that the FCC is considering
allowing IBOC transmissions to increase power to -10dB, an increase of
10db power. I just got word that the FCC may make a ruling on this
docket Before the completion of an ongoing comprehensive NPR research
project designed to determine the amount of interference such additional
power will cause interference to analog signals.

It would be a great help to us and other analog broadcasters if you
would send comments urging the FCC to postpone any decision in this
matter until AFTER the completion of the NPR study.

Below I have copied an excerpt for the "CGC Communicator", (a newsletter
published by Robert Gnosett, Consulting Engineer):

COMMENTS NEEDED ON PROPOSED FM HD RADIO POWER INCREASE

The FCC is requesting comments on specific issues regarding the
proposed +10 dB FM HD Radio (IBOC) power increase. Watch out. For one
thing, the Commission is considering granting power increases before
NPR's detailed interference studies are completed -- the first
comprehensive studies in this field.

The Commission needs to hear from you. The message is: Wait
until the facts are determined before doing anything. Analog FM could
suffer serious and permanent damage by premature HD power increases.
There is a short time frame for filing Comments.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-09-1127A1.doc

I believe your listening report would be of great interest to the
broadcast engineering community in general. May I have your permission
to pass it on to Robert Gonsett, so that he may include it in an
upcoming issue of the CGC Communicator?

Thank you again for your report and your interest in listening to 89.7 KSGN.

Bruce Potterton
Engineer, KSGN

________

From: Bryce Foster [mailto:kg6vsw (at) gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:44 PM
To: Bruce Potterton @ KSGN(FM)
Subject: Weekend signal improvement

Hi Bruce,

Feel free to forward my comments along to whoever you'd like. I'm glad
they are of interest!

I can imagine that the appx. 10 miles of coverage lost on the 210 is
reflected throughout Eastern Los Angeles county and would account for
the hit in your ratings here, particularly in areas where terrain favors
signals to the south and west.

I was aware of the 10db power boost proposal, but I hadn't heard about
it in a while until you brought this up. I would be glad to send a
comment to the FCC, and I can relay this tidbit of information to the FM
DXing list I belong to if that would help. Obviously our interests are a
bit biased, but the harmful effects of IBOC go beyond DXing when it
legitmately causes interference. I'm not sure where exactly your
protected countour falls, but regardless, even "out-of-market" listeners
would seem to be valuable as a non-commercial station, as their
donations and support are just as good as someone down the street from
the transmitter site.

Best wishes - I hope further harm can be avoided, and am glad to see
that not all broadcasters are completely on-board with the expansion of
IBOC to destructive levels.

- Bryce

Posted by Steve Blodgett
Earthsignals.com

http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/KSGN_IBOC.htm

Great post Dave - Listeners have a chance to comment on FCC MM Docket
No. 99-325 concerning IBOC interference. I encourage everyone to do
it. I did it and it wasn't hard. Radio stations alone don't have
much say in it's proliferation, but listeners could make the
difference. We need to do it before this is allowed to escalate
further. Now's a chance to make a difference.