On 10/16/09 14:07 , John Higdon wrote:


Oh, and don't forget the studio, the new digital STL, monitoring
equipment, and the fact that HD equipment currently in the field is
notoriously unreliable. Fortunately, most stations don't care that much
because their three HD listeners don't phone in to complain.



You know what's really interesting about that whole HD Listener
thing,...is that people see this as an opportunity for a station to
garner new revenues by attracting new listeners.

Reality paints a much different picture than the public perceives.

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are
not printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken
from some pre-existing program source. Any new programming outlet
steals it's listeners from the existing 100 share. So, literally,
stations are hoping to steal their own listeners to put them on the
HD streams.

What's that, you say? They stay in the family? Really? Well,
while a listener shift from the baseband channel to the HD2 stream
DOES keep that listener within the company, it takes that listener
from the programs of high advertising rates, and puts them on the
programs of LOW advertising rates. Enough listeners make that shift,
and the baseband channel's advertising rates fall. Meanwhile the HD
stream's rates are abysmally low mostly because there is virtually
no listenership. Most advertising on HD at the moment is value added
to the baseband's sales packages. That which isn't, is low rated.
And the advertising revenues per spot are dramatically less than the
revenues per spot on the baseband.

So, what HD is really doing is robbing the analog channels of
it's revenues while putting the ratings points on HD streams that
can't begin to replace the lost revenue from the baseband.

How the hell the bean counters at these stations let that go is
beyond me. Hell, when I was at CBS, we reused the toner in the copy
machine, for cryin' out loud. Drop $100,000 + on HD and then let it
siphon off the ad rates?

C'mon.

D. Peter Maus wrote:

Reality paints a much different picture than the public perceives.

Your reality isn't reality at all.

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

Nope. According to the NAB chairman, Apple will be adding an HD FM tuner
to an upcoming iPod Nano. Microsoft has already added it to the Zune
(though that may only bring in one or two new listeners!). The
additional market is not coming just from listeners that would otherwise
be listening to analog FM on their car radios. It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

Any new programming outlet steals it's
listeners from the existing 100 share. So, literally, stations are
hoping to steal their own listeners to put them on the HD streams.

Not true at all.

What's that, you say? They stay in the family? Really? Well, while a
listener shift from the baseband channel to the HD2 stream DOES keep
that listener within the company, it takes that listener from the
programs of high advertising rates, and puts them on the programs of LOW
advertising rates.

Versus putting them on the programs of another station.

So, what HD is really doing is robbing the analog channels of it's
revenues while putting the ratings points on HD streams that can't begin
to replace the lost revenue from the baseband.

You're not looking at the big picture.

How the hell the bean counters at these stations let that go is beyond
me.

It's because they have more information than you have.

On 10/16/09 16:05 , SMS wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:

Reality paints a much different picture than the public perceives.

Your reality isn't reality at all.

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.



So there's going to be more than 100 share in a market? Interesting.

That's really going to **** off Arbitron.


Then, again, what doesn't.

In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now? Stations are languishing trying to gain market share
because no one wants to listen to them. Why? Because they're not doing
anything worth listening to. You don't need HD to put decent programming
on the air!

Any new programming outlet steals it's
listeners from the existing 100 share. So, literally, stations are
hoping to steal their own listeners to put them on the HD streams.

Not true at all.

Actually, most veterans of this industry agree that is the case.

So, what HD is really doing is robbing the analog channels of it's
revenues while putting the ratings points on HD streams that can't begin
to replace the lost revenue from the baseband.

You're not looking at the big picture.

I hate to tell you this, but that IS the big picture. Boiled down to
residue, what we have here is some looney theory that broadcasters who
can't lure listeners to a single channel will be able to lure listeners
to many channels. What magic programming is going to cause this to
happen? If such magical programming exists, why aren't they using it NOW?

How the hell the bean counters at these stations let that go is beyond
me.

It's because they have more information than you have.

No, actually it is because too many stations are more governed by
emotion rather than sound business sense. I give the recent failure of
KGNY as a prime example.

--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
AT&T-Free At Last

"John Higdon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.

On Oct 17, 2:27*am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"John Higdon" wrote in message

...





In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

* First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. *HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Struble: HD Addresses The ’Long Tail’"

"Bob Struble, President/CEO of HD Radio developer iBiquity Digital,
says in his latest column on the iBiquity website that HD technology
can help radio address the Long Tail of consumer interest... Analog
radio cannot effectively serve the Long Tail, Struble writes... But HD
Radio, he says, gives radio broadcasters an economically viable way to
address the Long Tail with niche formats on HD2 and HD3 subchannels...
I got a bunch of thought provoking comments on The Long Tail column,
and the usual suspects questioning my sanity and family background."

http://www.hdradio.com/the_buzz.php?thebuzz=315

"Harvard Business Review: Should You Invest in the Long Tail?"

"Chris Anderson, editor of Wired magazine, argues that the sudden
availability of niche offerings more closely tailored to their tastes
will lure consumers away from homogenized hits. The 'tail' of the
sales distribution curve, he says, will become longer, fatter, and
more profitable. Elberse, a professor at Harvard Business School, set
out to investigate whether Anderson's long-tail theory is actually
playing out in today's markets. She focused on the music and home-
video industries -- two markets that Anderson and others frequently
hold up as examples of the long tail in action -- reviewing sales data
from Nielsen SoundScan, Nielsen VideoScan, the online music service
Rhapsody, and the Australian DVD-by-mail service Quickflix. What she
found may surprise you: Blockbusters are capturing even more of the
market than they used to, and consumers in the tail don't really like
niche products much."

http://www.citeulike.org/user/mmkurth/article/2984768

There is no viable business-model for niche formats on the HD channels
- Struble should have known that, since he is a Harvard MBA Baker
Scholar. Perhaps, he doesn't read the Harvard Busines Review, or more
likely, is just lying, as we all know.

"CC Radio’s Format Lab gone?"

"So bottom line, the Format Lab is no longer available on the web and
has cut some of its formats down to the most successful/desirable. The
www.iHeartMusic.com website seems to only list the main audio streams
of CC stations--not multicast HD formats--but does offer a few off to
the side: erockster; Pride; Verizon New Music; Smooth Jazz; Real
Oldies; Slow Jams and New Country. There used to be something close to
100 formats listed on the site."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/11252.html

"Bonneville pulls iChannel Music"

"Bonneville has pulled the plug on its iChannel Music HD Network and
streaming. For the most part, it has replaced the HD multicast with
WorldBand Media content (brokered ethnic programming). iChannel
allowed indie bands to upload their music online for consideration...
We commend Bonneville for giving it a shot—it allowed radio to expose
a lot of new, unsigned indie bands from around the world. CC Radio's
eRockster HD2 format is still around at a good handful of stations and
still outstanding. If that gets shuttered, a good bunch of us just
might be done with HD Radio listening altoghether."

http://www.rbr.com/radio/12113.html

Yup, these niche formats have been a failure! LOL!

"HD Radio Farce" wrote in message
...
On Oct 17, 2:27 am, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"John Higdon" wrote in message

...





In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog
FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Struble: HD Addresses The ’Long Tail’"

"Bob Struble, President/CEO of HD Radio developer iBiquity Digital,
says in his latest column on the iBiquity website



ANother cut/paste!

On Oct 16, 11:27*pm, "Jo Jo Gunn" wrote:
"John Higdon" wrote in message

...



In article ,
SMS wrote:

D. Peter Maus wrote:

* First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

If "killer programming" is going to be available on HD, why not put it
on analog FM now?

As someone who used to work in Classical radio, you realize that those
formats are dropping like flies.

Classical could find a nice home on HD-2 channels....and some NPR outlets
are doing news/talk on their HD1....and doing classical on their HD2.

The formats available on HD2 (and 3) are going to be niche programming.
Enough listeners to sustain it, but not enough to warrant an $70 million
dollar signal.

One of the biggest problems classical formats have had is balancing the
listeners who like choral & opera....with those who don't!

This one of the great uses of secondary streams. *HD2 can be all choral &
opera.

COuntry formats that feature 90's and todays music...can put 60's/70's on
the decondary HD2 channel.

Classical and Country are just two formats
missing in many metro areas :
=IF= People are Listening to the HD-2 Channels
the Advertisers will Follow and the Income will Flow . . .
~ RHF

On Oct 16, 5:05*pm, SMS wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:
* Reality paints a much different picture than the public perceives.

Your reality isn't reality at all.

* First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

Nope. According to the NAB chairman, Apple will be adding an HD FM tuner
to an upcoming iPod Nano. Microsoft has already added it to the Zune
(though that may only bring in one or two new listeners!). The
additional market is not coming just from listeners that would otherwise
be listening to analog FM on their car radios. It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

Any new programming outlet steals it's
listeners from the existing 100 share. So, literally, stations are
hoping to steal their own listeners to put them on the HD streams.

Not true at all.

* What's that, you say? They stay in the family? Really? Well, while a
listener shift from the baseband channel to the HD2 stream DOES keep
that listener within the company, it takes that listener from the
programs of high advertising rates, and puts them on the programs of LOW
advertising rates.

Versus putting them on the programs of another station.

* So, what HD is really doing is robbing the analog channels of it's
revenues while putting the ratings points on HD streams that can't begin
to replace the lost revenue from the baseband.

You're not looking at the big picture.

* How the hell the bean counters at these stations let that go is beyond
me.

It's because they have more information than you have.

"Nope. According to the NAB chairman, Apple will be adding an HD FM
tuner
to an upcoming iPod Nano."

"HD's Killer App Goes Poof!"

"You’ve probably heard that Apple’s new iPod Nano will have an FM
tuner with iTunes tagging built in. Lost in radio’s coverage of the
announcement was its impact on HD Radio... Apple’s deal with iBiquity
was just a test. They wanted a system that could sell more downloads
and trump Rhapsody, and HD was the perfect guinea pig. They already
had tagging on the entire iPod line. With the kinks worked out, now
all they had to do was add an FM tuner to the iPod. Which they did
with the new Nano... Make no mistake. This move was not designed to
help radio. It was designed to give iTunes a revenue boost... And HD?
Apple knows how many downloads HD generated for iTunes. Maybe that’s
why they didn’t bother adding an HD tuner to any of the new iPods."

http://tinyurl.com/yklsvt6

Didn't happen, and never will.

"HD Radio Farce" wrote in message
...
On Oct 16, 5:05 pm, SMS wrote:
D. Peter Maus wrote:
Reality paints a much different picture than the public perceives.

Your reality isn't reality at all.

First, there is only a 100 share in any market. New listeners are not
printed up like $100 bills in Washington. They have to be taken from
some pre-existing program source.

Nope. According to the NAB chairman, Apple will be adding an HD FM tuner
to an upcoming iPod Nano. Microsoft has already added it to the Zune
(though that may only bring in one or two new listeners!). The
additional market is not coming just from listeners that would otherwise
be listening to analog FM on their car radios. It's coming from
listeners that would otherwise be listening to their iPod, CDs, or
digital media (in the car or not in the car) because there's nothing on
analog AM or FM that they want to listen to. HD radio is much more
likely to be stealing customers from satellite radio than from analog FM.

Any new programming outlet steals it's
listeners from the existing 100 share. So, literally, stations are
hoping to steal their own listeners to put them on the HD streams.

Not true at all.

What's that, you say? They stay in the family? Really? Well, while a
listener shift from the baseband channel to the HD2 stream DOES keep
that listener within the company, it takes that listener from the
programs of high advertising rates, and puts them on the programs of LOW
advertising rates.

Versus putting them on the programs of another station.

So, what HD is really doing is robbing the analog channels of it's
revenues while putting the ratings points on HD streams that can't begin
to replace the lost revenue from the baseband.

You're not looking at the big picture.

How the hell the bean counters at these stations let that go is beyond
me.

It's because they have more information than you have.

"Nope. According to the NAB chairman, Apple will be adding an HD FM
tuner
to an upcoming iPod Nano."

HD's Killer App Goes Poof!"

"You’ve probably heard that Apple’s new iPod Nano \

Another cut/paste by the HD nut.