Bob Dobbs wrote:
wrote:
Do those kind of LED lamps cause RFI?

Probably very little if any,
even if they're pulsed at rf frequencies.

It can be a lot!!! I am an engineer and the latest thing being hyped is
switch-mode controllers for LED lighting, so you can bet some company
will design a perfectly loud lamp in China.
P.F. correction circuits will ensure that this noise is over the full
A.C. cycle and not just at the peaks anymore.
Progress.

Bill Baka

Olson wrote:
" I don't believe you. The consensus in the ham community is that, as a
rule, the CFLs are not noisy. There ARE some that DO make noise, but
they are an aberration. That's why we buy things where we can return
them if we don't like them."
Believe me sir, they are very noisy. Perhaps you should be a little more
resourceful and check your facts before you present them.
Don't ever call someone a liar unless you are capable of deciphering the
truth.
Try it for yourself.

I did. You obviously ignored the hyperlink:

QRZ Forums Open Discussions Talk and Opinions - Amateur Radio
Compact fluorescent light bulbs CFLs
PDA

View Full Version : Compact fluorescent light bulbs CFLs
NN3W
09-22-2007, 07:44 PM
We've been thinking about switching our incandescent bulbs to CFLs for
certain lights in the house (the ones where we seem to replace a bulb
every 45 days).

Anyone have experience with CFLs and their potential for creating RF
interference. Any brands to favor any brands to strongly avoid?
KA2P
09-22-2007, 07:53 PM
My entire house is filled with them including two within ten feet of my
radio. No interference whatsoever. If there is, I don't notice it.
However, I understand the older versions caused some problems.
KC5CSG
09-22-2007, 08:20 PM
I replaced every single lamp in my house with CFL's. The only thing I've
noticed is a lower electric bill. No noise whatsoever on any bands I
frequent. They're definitely the way to go.
K3WRV
09-22-2007, 09:17 PM
Have 2 or three of them around, and no RFI problems 160-10, but don't
know about VHF.
One problem in the basement. In one ceiling fixture that burns out
incandescent bulbs frequently, the CFL lasted only about 3 months.
Bought it at a hamfest from a dealer. Made in China, and gave off
"Mercury Vapor" (or LED Blue) light. Don't trust the wattage equivalents
either - the 100 W "equivalent" produces less useable light than a 40 W
incandescent. But the ones I bought from $afeway work FB, if a bit dim.
Was going to change the whole house over to them, but not for the moment.
de Bob
N2RJ
09-22-2007, 09:18 PM
I use the "conserv-energy" ones (costco house brand), "commercial
electric" (home depot house brand) and philips.

They are all good when comes to RFI, with no noticeable RFI on any ham
band, shortwave or broadcast band that I listen to.

The conserv-energy ones have a high DOA rate. Almost every pack I've
bought has had at least one DOA. They're usually returned for a pack
that has no DOA ones.
WA9SVD
09-22-2007, 09:46 PM
I use several 100 Watt types (all spiral design) some 5-6 y/o, some that
(with power co. subsidies) are brand new and cost 5/$1.00, and some are
the new "dimmable" types usable with standard (SCR or TRIAC) dimmers.
I've experienced no RFI from any of them (including one in a swivel lamp
right above my radios) although the dimmer with an incandescent lamp DID
cause a lot of hash on the lower HF bands. That disappeared with the CFL
bulb. The only problem I've encountered is that the dimmable bulb, at
certain medium light levels, blocks the (IR) signal from the TV remote!
Block the bulb (or the pickup target on the TV) and all works fine.
Minor annoyance, and remotes from VCR or DVD player are NOT affected.
(It's an older 1984 vintage RCA TV.)
W4HAY
09-22-2007, 09:47 PM
We've been gradually re-lamping the stables for the past couple of years
and have been very satisfied. We've also been installing the CFL floods
in the fixtures along the barn's ridge, 25' up. In cold weather, it'll
take them a couple of minutes to reach full brilliance (unheated
structure). Out of probably 40 bulbs installed, we've had two failures
so far. We buy whatever Wal-Mart is stocking at the moment

I have a few in the house and have had no RFI problems. I can pick up a
buzz if I place an AM/SW portable a couple of feet from a bulb.

Dimmer circuits can be a problem, though.
09-22-2007, 09:51 PM
I have not received any interference to the bands I operate (40 meters
and higher) from florescent bulbs of any type.

I did once have a problem with the "touch lamps" which many have
complained about as causing RF interference. The problem was not
interference to my radio but my wife indicated that when I was using my
radio the lamp kept switching on and off. I told the wife that it was
because the RF from my radio antenna was getting into the lamps
circuitry causing the problem. Being associated with a RF Engineer for
many years my wife has gained many "trouble shooting" skills, She went
over and unplugged the lamp. I have not heard of any further problems.

Frank http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
K8JD
09-23-2007, 02:19 AM
I have used several of the fluorescent spiral bulbs, I have noticed some
wideband buzzing on some parts of the AMBC band when a portable radio is
near the lamps. No problems on 160 or 80 M. Yes, there are problelms
when listening for beacons on LW band.
KR2D
09-23-2007, 02:26 AM
I have a bunch of CFLs. No RFI, but I did have some cheap ones that
produced audible whines and buzzes. One of those cheapies burned out in
a week, and I returned the entire package for a refund. I've had bad
luck with cheap brands and house brands, with units burning out after a
short time. I've found Sylvania, Philips and GE brand CFLs to be reliable.
WA9CWX
09-23-2007, 02:33 AM
Been using the spiral kind for years, including in the shack, no RFI
problems.

Frank
K9KJM
09-23-2007, 06:46 AM
I started out many years ago with a few of the "straight" tube types
that DID cause some RFI problems. Since then I have only used the
"spiral" types and have had no problems with any of the various brands I
use.
W4HAY
09-23-2007, 12:21 PM
If you'll notice, that double helix on most CFLs is the same winding
configuration as non-inductive wire-wound resistors. That cancels out a
lot of the potential radiation.
N2RJ
09-23-2007, 01:18 PM
Quote[/b] (W4HAY @ Sep. 23 2007,07:21)]If you'll notice, that double
helix on most CFLs is the same winding configuration as non-inductive
wire-wound resistors. That cancels out a lot of the potential radiation.
Interesting.

I had always thought RFI was transmitted through the power lines from
the switching power supply in the lamp, not the lamp bulb itself.

Newer lamps have an FCC compliance stamp on them, which probably means
that they design them not to cause interference.
VO1GXG
09-23-2007, 01:29 PM
I HATE THEM!

They do not give off enough light

They make the room look yellow like you a radiating case of jondus.

They catch fire at the end of there life.

They just don't give u that warm fuzzy glow you get from normal light
bulbs and tubed radios! .
KC5CSG
09-23-2007, 02:11 PM
Quote[/b] (VO1GXG @ Sep. 23 2007,06:29)]I HATE THEM!

They do not give off enough light

They make the room look yellow like you a radiating case of jondus.

They catch fire at the end of there life.

They just don't give u that warm fuzzy glow you get from normal light
bulbs and tubed radios! .
Try looking for lamps that have a high Color Rendering Index (CRI). Most
CFL's have a CRI of anywhere from 72 to 82. A CRI of 100 is the best
supposedly because it is supposed to have the same color rendering as
sunlight. There are a few CFL's out there that have CRI's in the 90's.
Also, some bulbs have the Color Temperature listed on them. It's given
in Kelvins. The higher the number the bluer and (colder) the light and
the lower the number the more yellow (Warmer) the light.

I know, buy a lamp shouldn't involve this kind of science but if you
want accurate color rendering cheaply nothing beats the Incadescent
bulbs. Most Incadescent bulbs have a CRI of 100 and a low color temp
giving them a good appearance.

If you have an old FL fixture using the straight tubes or the "U" shaped
ones and it's giving off interference, try checking the ballast. If it's
the old magnetic type ballast you can replace that with the new
electronic ballast. Of course, it would probably be cheaper to replace
the entire fixture and use the newer Rapid start and instant start
lamps. Another advantage to the Rapid starts on electronic ballasts is
that some of the lamps they use employ "rare earth" materials in the
lamp coatings allowing higher CRI's. I've seen some of the T-8 and T-12
lamp tubes with CRI's as high as 98.

Good luck
K3VR
09-23-2007, 02:45 PM
I use FEIT ELECTRIC
(http://www.bulbamerica.com/FEIT-Electric-14-manuf.htm) mini-twists.
They use 13 watts, have a standard base and provide 800 lumens. No
interference at all and they last 24/7 for years. You can buy them on
the net and last year I noticed they were available at Home Depot. I use
two in my radio shack and haven't noticed any RFI at all. Wish I could
say the same for my router...
KI9A
09-25-2007, 03:15 AM
I've got a mix of brands, wattages all over the house, with no problems
at all. Been in the same QTH for 10 years, and switched over to CF about
2 yrs ago. Even have TWO flourecent desk lights in the shack.

73-Chuck http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/e...ns/biggrin.gif
KI9A
09-25-2007, 03:17 AM
Quote[/b] (VO1GXG @ Sep. 23 2007,06:29)]They catch fire at the end of
there life.
Really?? I have been an Electrician for 24 years, the past 6 years on an
ongoing maintenance project in a complex that has tens of thousands of
these installed..never heard of that one before. Smells fishy to me!!
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
KC5CSG
09-25-2007, 04:11 AM
I'm just sort of disappointed the QL bulbs they were researching in the
late 90's didn't seem to take off. Amazing technology and the lumens per
watt rating was similar to low pressure sodiums but had excellent color
rendering.

Also read up on sulphur lamps. Now that is some way out technology. It
did make for an evening of interesting reading.

Jerry
K0CRX
09-25-2007, 04:02 PM
My 2 cents -

I have many in and around the house. Here are observations from years of
usage.

Lights of America - made in China, short lived junk.
FEIT - long life and very, very rf quiet - recommend!!
Miscellaneous other brands made in China - horrible rf generators - I
have some on the test bench and have to switch to incandescent before I
align a receiver.

Bob Dobbs wrote:
dave wrote:

Incandescent lamps turn on and off 60 times a
second.

Not hardly

They indeed do.

Could see it a mile away with a stroboscope.

A stroboscope doesn't see any further
than its own calibrated pulse will illuminate.

Calibrated pulse? A stroboscope is essentially a calibrated shutter.
Nothing more. You heterodyne it against the 60 Hz flicker of the lamps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroboscope

Bob Dobbs wrote:
Following up on my comments:

Bob Dobbs wrote:
dave wrote:
Incandescent lamps turn on and off 60 times a
second.
Not hardly

More like twice that
Assuming the incandescents are powered by 60 Hz commercial mains,
instead of a DC (photovoltaic/battery) system, the voltage is either full off or
at max twice per cycle and some sinusoidal intermediate value the rest of the
time in between, which is imperceptible due to hysteresis of black body
radiation. (filaments take a small bit of time to start to glow or to go out)

Could see it a mile away with a stroboscope.
A stroboscope doesn't see any further
than its own calibrated pulse will illuminate.

Better to detect type of illumination would be a spectroscope
to determine if the visible spectra is continuous or discontinuous.


Thanks. Two crossings per cycle. Thanks.

The point being missed is that CFLs turn on and off thousands of times a
second, therefore have much less flicker than coal buring Edison lamps.

I don't believe you. The consensus in the ham community is that, as a
rule, the CFLs are not noisy. There ARE some that DO make noise, but
they are an aberration. That's why we buy things where we can return
them if we don't like them.
http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-138234.html
"as a rule, the CFLs are not noisy.... which leaves the door open for
some noisy cases to slip through.
Try it for yourself.
I did. You obviously ignored the hyperlink:

"No sir, you are obviously missing the point." "As a rule" means "as a
rule".
Synonyms: as a rule, frequently, generally, more often than not,
ordinarily, regularly

generalized course of action or behavior ........
Therefore it follows: "Not totally or always the case".
Word of advise: It's much better to have people think you are stupid than
to open your mouth and prove it
I neither have anymore time to pursue this issue with you nor do I care to.
You are fuelled by trivial pusuits little man as has been proven in this
group before.
Stop being an annoyance and time consuming pest.
"Kill filed!"

"dave" wrote in message
...
Olson wrote:
" I don't believe you. The consensus in the ham community is that, as a
rule, the CFLs are not noisy. There ARE some that DO make noise, but
they are an aberration. That's why we buy things where we can return
them if we don't like them."
Believe me sir, they are very noisy. Perhaps you should be a little more
resourceful and check your facts before you present them.
Don't ever call someone a liar unless you are capable of deciphering the
truth.
Try it for yourself.

I did. You obviously ignored the hyperlink:

QRZ Forums Open Discussions Talk and Opinions - Amateur Radio
Compact fluorescent light bulbs CFLs
PDA

View Full Version : Compact fluorescent light bulbs CFLs
NN3W
09-22-2007, 07:44 PM
We've been thinking about switching our incandescent bulbs to CFLs for
certain lights in the house (the ones where we seem to replace a bulb
every 45 days).

Anyone have experience with CFLs and their potential for creating RF
interference. Any brands to favor any brands to strongly avoid?
KA2P
09-22-2007, 07:53 PM
My entire house is filled with them including two within ten feet of my
radio. No interference whatsoever. If there is, I don't notice it.
However, I understand the older versions caused some problems.
KC5CSG
09-22-2007, 08:20 PM
I replaced every single lamp in my house with CFL's. The only thing I've
noticed is a lower electric bill. No noise whatsoever on any bands I
frequent. They're definitely the way to go.
K3WRV
09-22-2007, 09:17 PM
Have 2 or three of them around, and no RFI problems 160-10, but don't know
about VHF.
One problem in the basement. In one ceiling fixture that burns out
incandescent bulbs frequently, the CFL lasted only about 3 months. Bought
it at a hamfest from a dealer. Made in China, and gave off "Mercury Vapor"
(or LED Blue) light. Don't trust the wattage equivalents either - the 100
W "equivalent" produces less useable light than a 40 W incandescent. But
the ones I bought from $afeway work FB, if a bit dim.
Was going to change the whole house over to them, but not for the moment.
de Bob
N2RJ
09-22-2007, 09:18 PM
I use the "conserv-energy" ones (costco house brand), "commercial
electric" (home depot house brand) and philips.

They are all good when comes to RFI, with no noticeable RFI on any ham
band, shortwave or broadcast band that I listen to.

The conserv-energy ones have a high DOA rate. Almost every pack I've
bought has had at least one DOA. They're usually returned for a pack that
has no DOA ones.
WA9SVD
09-22-2007, 09:46 PM
I use several 100 Watt types (all spiral design) some 5-6 y/o, some that
(with power co. subsidies) are brand new and cost 5/$1.00, and some are
the new "dimmable" types usable with standard (SCR or TRIAC) dimmers. I've
experienced no RFI from any of them (including one in a swivel lamp right
above my radios) although the dimmer with an incandescent lamp DID cause a
lot of hash on the lower HF bands. That disappeared with the CFL bulb. The
only problem I've encountered is that the dimmable bulb, at certain medium
light levels, blocks the (IR) signal from the TV remote! Block the bulb
(or the pickup target on the TV) and all works fine. Minor annoyance, and
remotes from VCR or DVD player are NOT affected. (It's an older 1984
vintage RCA TV.)
W4HAY
09-22-2007, 09:47 PM
We've been gradually re-lamping the stables for the past couple of years
and have been very satisfied. We've also been installing the CFL floods in
the fixtures along the barn's ridge, 25' up. In cold weather, it'll take
them a couple of minutes to reach full brilliance (unheated structure).
Out of probably 40 bulbs installed, we've had two failures so far. We buy
whatever Wal-Mart is stocking at the moment

I have a few in the house and have had no RFI problems. I can pick up a
buzz if I place an AM/SW portable a couple of feet from a bulb.

Dimmer circuits can be a problem, though.
09-22-2007, 09:51 PM
I have not received any interference to the bands I operate (40 meters and
higher) from florescent bulbs of any type.

I did once have a problem with the "touch lamps" which many have
complained about as causing RF interference. The problem was not
interference to my radio but my wife indicated that when I was using my
radio the lamp kept switching on and off. I told the wife that it was
because the RF from my radio antenna was getting into the lamps circuitry
causing the problem. Being associated with a RF Engineer for many years my
wife has gained many "trouble shooting" skills, She went over and
unplugged the lamp. I have not heard of any further problems.

Frank http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
K8JD
09-23-2007, 02:19 AM
I have used several of the fluorescent spiral bulbs, I have noticed some
wideband buzzing on some parts of the AMBC band when a portable radio is
near the lamps. No problems on 160 or 80 M. Yes, there are problelms when
listening for beacons on LW band.
KR2D
09-23-2007, 02:26 AM
I have a bunch of CFLs. No RFI, but I did have some cheap ones that
produced audible whines and buzzes. One of those cheapies burned out in a
week, and I returned the entire package for a refund. I've had bad luck
with cheap brands and house brands, with units burning out after a short
time. I've found Sylvania, Philips and GE brand CFLs to be reliable.
WA9CWX
09-23-2007, 02:33 AM
Been using the spiral kind for years, including in the shack, no RFI
problems.

Frank
K9KJM
09-23-2007, 06:46 AM
I started out many years ago with a few of the "straight" tube types that
DID cause some RFI problems. Since then I have only used the "spiral"
types and have had no problems with any of the various brands I use.
W4HAY
09-23-2007, 12:21 PM
If you'll notice, that double helix on most CFLs is the same winding
configuration as non-inductive wire-wound resistors. That cancels out a
lot of the potential radiation.
N2RJ
09-23-2007, 01:18 PM
Quote[/b] (W4HAY @ Sep. 23 2007,07:21)]If you'll notice, that double helix
on most CFLs is the same winding configuration as non-inductive wire-wound
resistors. That cancels out a lot of the potential radiation.
Interesting.

I had always thought RFI was transmitted through the power lines from the
switching power supply in the lamp, not the lamp bulb itself.

Newer lamps have an FCC compliance stamp on them, which probably means
that they design them not to cause interference.
VO1GXG
09-23-2007, 01:29 PM
I HATE THEM!

They do not give off enough light

They make the room look yellow like you a radiating case of jondus.

They catch fire at the end of there life.

They just don't give u that warm fuzzy glow you get from normal light
bulbs and tubed radios! .
KC5CSG
09-23-2007, 02:11 PM
Quote[/b] (VO1GXG @ Sep. 23 2007,06:29)]I HATE THEM!

They do not give off enough light

They make the room look yellow like you a radiating case of jondus.

They catch fire at the end of there life.

They just don't give u that warm fuzzy glow you get from normal light
bulbs and tubed radios! .
Try looking for lamps that have a high Color Rendering Index (CRI). Most
CFL's have a CRI of anywhere from 72 to 82. A CRI of 100 is the best
supposedly because it is supposed to have the same color rendering as
sunlight. There are a few CFL's out there that have CRI's in the 90's.
Also, some bulbs have the Color Temperature listed on them. It's given in
Kelvins. The higher the number the bluer and (colder) the light and the
lower the number the more yellow (Warmer) the light.

I know, buy a lamp shouldn't involve this kind of science but if you want
accurate color rendering cheaply nothing beats the Incadescent bulbs. Most
Incadescent bulbs have a CRI of 100 and a low color temp giving them a
good appearance.

If you have an old FL fixture using the straight tubes or the "U" shaped
ones and it's giving off interference, try checking the ballast. If it's
the old magnetic type ballast you can replace that with the new electronic
ballast. Of course, it would probably be cheaper to replace the entire
fixture and use the newer Rapid start and instant start lamps. Another
advantage to the Rapid starts on electronic ballasts is that some of the
lamps they use employ "rare earth" materials in the lamp coatings allowing
higher CRI's. I've seen some of the T-8 and T-12 lamp tubes with CRI's as
high as 98.

Good luck
K3VR
09-23-2007, 02:45 PM
I use FEIT ELECTRIC
(http://www.bulbamerica.com/FEIT-Electric-14-manuf.htm) mini-twists. They
use 13 watts, have a standard base and provide 800 lumens. No interference
at all and they last 24/7 for years. You can buy them on the net and last
year I noticed they were available at Home Depot. I use two in my radio
shack and haven't noticed any RFI at all. Wish I could say the same for my
router...
KI9A
09-25-2007, 03:15 AM
I've got a mix of brands, wattages all over the house, with no problems at
all. Been in the same QTH for 10 years, and switched over to CF about 2
yrs ago. Even have TWO flourecent desk lights in the shack.

73-Chuck http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/e...ns/biggrin.gif
KI9A
09-25-2007, 03:17 AM
Quote[/b] (VO1GXG @ Sep. 23 2007,06:29)]They catch fire at the end of
there life.
Really?? I have been an Electrician for 24 years, the past 6 years on an
ongoing maintenance project in a complex that has tens of thousands of
these installed..never heard of that one before. Smells fishy to me!!
#http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
KC5CSG
09-25-2007, 04:11 AM
I'm just sort of disappointed the QL bulbs they were researching in the
late 90's didn't seem to take off. Amazing technology and the lumens per
watt rating was similar to low pressure sodiums but had excellent color
rendering.

Also read up on sulphur lamps. Now that is some way out technology. It did
make for an evening of interesting reading.

Jerry
K0CRX
09-25-2007, 04:02 PM
My 2 cents -

I have many in and around the house. Here are observations from years of
usage.

Lights of America - made in China, short lived junk.
FEIT - long life and very, very rf quiet - recommend!!
Miscellaneous other brands made in China - horrible rf generators - I have
some on the test bench and have to switch to incandescent before I align a
receiver.

Back in the 1970s, I bought a Phillips made in Netherlands CFL from a
local area W.T.Grant store which was going out of business.It was a
three parts Phillips CFL unit, three seperate parts which I plugged
together.I used that Phillips CFL in my bathroom untill the bulb burnt
out over fourteen years later.I currently use two CFLs in my house, one
in my kitchen and one in my bathroom.I never turn them off.
cuhulin

Rocking chair OLED lamp
www.techchee.com

Chee!
cuhulin

OLED Lights.
www.oled-display.net/oled-lighting

I read about OLED a few years ago in one of my snail mail Popular
Mechanics or Popular Science magazines.
www.popularmechanics.com
www.popsci.com
cuhulin

OLED lighting, Litenin Bugs, Gloworms, sum O' them Fishis in tHe Deep
Blue Sea.

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cuhulin