On Mar 11, 10:46*am, Steve wrote:
On Mar 11, 12:26*pm, bpnjensen wrote:





On Mar 11, 9:09*am, Michael Black wrote:

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010, notbob wrote:
Another question. *Being a big usenet user, but new to amateur radio,
I've been looking at all the groups available. *This one appeared to
have the least noise for a general discussion group, so I posted here.
Is this type of question ok, here, or is there a more appropriate
group for rank newbie questions I'm sure to be pestering the ham
community with? *

Well you're really confused, because this newsgroup has nothing to do with
amateur radio. *There's a whole hierarchy, rec.radio.amateur.* that's
intended for that. *They cover a wide variety of topics, and there's even
a moderated one.

This newsgroup is about listening. *"Shortwave" is in the title since it
sort of defined what the newsgroup was supposed to be about, the same way
that back forty years "SWL" meant "shortwave listening" but often the same
people also did BCB DXing and monitoring the public service bands. *It's a
description of the type of person, not the spectrum to be covered.

That confuses a lot of people, they think this is for amateur radio
because it's "shortwave". But it was never meant to be a place to discuss
amateur radio, beyond discussing monitoring the ham bands (which has
always had some followers). *The charter defines that, and the fact that
there is a whole hierarchy intended for amateur radio should also
reinforce that. *Besides. *amateur radio isn't just about shortwave,
indeed while once you couldn't really get a ham license without starting
out on the shortwave bands, now I suspect there are a good percentage,
maybe even a small majority, who have never operated on the shortwave
bands.

* * Michael

My thanks to both Mark H. and Michael for their reponses. *Both
informative, and this one philosophically worthy as well.

I am currently thinking of getting an amateur license actually, even
if I never get on the air. *Not sure why - I used to have one decades
ago (WB1GAL), and never got it off the ground due to inherent
limitations in manual dexterity (back then, code was de rigueur; now
it is optional for most all classes)...the theory and regs were more
or less a snap, even though I am not an electronics guy...

Maybe just for the cachet - we Californians are all about superficial
appearance and keeping up, after all ;-) *SWL is still my first love
when it comes to radio.

Bruce

I hope you won't give up on code. It doesn't require a lot of manual
dexterity to send code at a reasonable rate. You might not become a
speed demon sending/copying code at 50 wpm, but who cares? You can
have a ton of fun on the CW portions of the bands.

When I first got my license I had no intention of learning code. I
figured I'd stay mostly on the voice portion of the bands, but my
interests in the hobby kept expanding. Soon I was active in digital
modes like RTTY and PSK-31. Now I spend 99% of my time operating in CW
mode with a paddle and keyer, and it's about a thousand times more
addictive than any other part of the hobby I've encountered thus far.
Well worth the initial investment of time and energy to learn code.

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Steve - I gave up on code 30 years ago after working at it two years
and never getting beyond about 7 WPM. For me, the words 'manual
dexterity' are an oxymoron. Same with guitar, piano and typing. No
soap. My fingers might as well be made of stone. A lifelong lid.

RTTY? Not a chance.

No biggie - I'm happy :-)

Bruce

[Note: Followup-To is set - rec.radio.shortwave is NOT an amateur radio
group]
"Mark S. Holden" wrote in message
news
notbob wrote:
I'm new to these newsgroups and amateur radio. I would like to study
for my ticket but am confused on the dates of the question pools.

In the Mar '09 issue of CQ magazine, an article on A Beginner's Guide
To Becoming a Ham Radio Operator, element 3 dates are given as,
"Element 3 (General) pool between July 1, 2007 and June 30, 2011".
Yet, two study guides I've dwnlded (pdf) from the web, both give the
ending year for General as 2010. Which is it? What am I missing?

Another question. Being a big usenet user, but new to amateur radio,
I've been looking at all the groups available. This one appeared to
have the least noise for a general discussion group, so I posted here.
Is this type of question ok, here, or is there a more appropriate
group for rank newbie questions I'm sure to be pestering the ham
community with?

notbob... fearless geezer

Different question pools have different expiration dates.

Here are the dates for current question pools:

Technician class (Element 2) Pool is effective July 1, 2006 and is valid
until June 30, 2010.

General class (Element 3) Pool is effective July 1, 2007 and is valid
until June 30, 2011.

Extra class (Element 4) Pool is effective July 1, 2008 and is valid
until June 30, 2012.

Even when the questions change (i.e. the pool expires), usually 80% of the
questions carry to the next period. If you study by learning the material
and not the questions, this shouldn't be a problem.

You need to pass the Tech test before you can take the General.
You need to pass General before you can take Extra.

If you pass one test, you can take the next test immediately. I took
Tech and General on the same day. If I'd had time to prepare ahead of
time, I could have taken Extra too.

If you pass, taking the next exam at the same session is covered under the
SAME fee most (if not all) places.

This web site has some good practice tests:

http://www.qrz.com/testing.html

It is worth looking for a local ham radio club as often they'll be able
to help you find testing sessions.

Or look he http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/examsearch.phtml

On Mar 11, 1:03*pm, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:

RTTY? *Not a chance.

RTTY, or teletype uses a keyboard and monitor,
same as you use on this newsgroup.
You don't need to know a dot from a dash,
because it doesn't use them.
It's more of a hissing, warbling sound in a speaker,
not something the human ear could ever readily decode.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

Yeah, I know - but you should see me type. What you see on this page
is not what comes out of my fingers...this is the result of
painstaking review and correction, often multiple times. If I sent
RTTY, it would look like gibberish...

The **only thing** that I can type quickly and correctly is...

Bruce

On Mar 11, 1:03*pm, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:

RTTY? *Not a chance.

RTTY, or teletype uses a keyboard and monitor,
same as you use on this newsgroup.
You don't need to know a dot from a dash,
because it doesn't use them.
It's more of a hissing, warbling sound in a speaker,
not something the human ear could ever readily decode.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

As an addendum - imagine yourself with large thick cold stiff gloves
on your hands. Now imagine that your hands and your mind don't
communicate properly. Then, place them a paddle or a keyboard, and try
having something sensible come out the first time.

You'd be me.

It's OK - I'm happy :-)

Bruce

On Mar 11, 1:28*pm, Bob Dobbs wrote:
bpnjensen wrote:

It's OK - I'm happy :-)

That's what really counts from my zen POV.

...and FWIW your comments come across as well crafted and logical
despite the confusing process you claim to endure in their creation.

--

Operator Bob
Echo Charlie 42

A compliment I was not expecting - thank you :-)

On 2010-03-11, Michael Black wrote:

amateur radio. There's a whole hierarchy, rec.radio.amateur.* that's
intended for that. They cover a wide variety of topics, and there's even
a moderated one.

Thank you for your brief reply.

Now that you've read my post and know what I'm looking for, would you
care to recommend one of the rra groups that might be more appropriate
for my needs?

nb

On Mar 11, 3:37*pm, notbob wrote:
On 2010-03-11, Michael Black wrote:

amateur radio. *There's a whole hierarchy, rec.radio.amateur.* that's
intended for that. *They cover a wide variety of topics, and there's even
a moderated one.

Thank you for your brief reply. *

Now that you've read my post and know what I'm looking for, would you
care to recommend one of the rra groups that might be more appropriate
for my needs?

nb

Hi, notbob - here is the moderated one, if you are looking for really
clean material...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...pics?hl=en&lnk

Good luck - first, you may want to read the items in this thread by
Mark Holden and Michael Black.

Bruce

On 2010-03-11, Steve wrote:

modes like RTTY and PSK-31. Now I spend 99% of my time operating in CW
mode with a paddle and keyer, and it's about a thousand times more
addictive than any other part of the hobby I've encountered thus far.
Well worth the initial investment of time and energy to learn code.

I agree and will learn code if it kills me. Speaking of which, one
motivation is that poor soul who died in OR a couple years ago.
Remember James Kim, who got lost on a back road and then stranded with
his family in deep Dec snows? Here's a guy who reviewed hi-tech
gadgets like PDAs and cell-phones for a living. Yet, for all his
know-how, he died alone and unable to call for help.

That scared the crap outta me. Though I'm no ham and have never had a
license or even a CB, I know how CW, even QRP, could have probably
saved this guy. Yet, he was clueless of even the most basic radio
technology. Frightening. I swore then, it would never happen to me
and I'm set on learning code and learning QRP radio.

I just checked out a 15 yr old ARRL Handbook and the last down rev
ARRL general study guide from the library. Outta keep my mind busy
for awhile.

nb

notbob wrote:

That scared the crap outta me. Though I'm no ham and have never had a
license or even a CB, I know how CW, even QRP, could have probably
saved this guy. Yet, he was clueless of even the most basic radio
technology. Frightening. I swore then, it would never happen to me
and I'm set on learning code and learning QRP radio.

Far better would have been a satellite based emergency locator transmitter.
Originaly designed for airplanes, they are available for hikers, etc.

As for CW, even QRP saving him, it's possible but not likely. HF location
is too coarse to find him, unless he had a GPS unit and was able to transmit
an SOS with the correct coordinates, had a big enough antenna to be heard,
and so on.

I have a 10m HT and can "work the world" (or at least access 10m
repeaters in the US and EU), but only when the band is open. It is not
likely it will be until the middle of the current sunspot cycle, which
is 4-5 years away if we are lucky.

A VHF HT is not going to be of any use, unless he happens to get lost or
snowed in to a valley with a repeater on the mountain above.

Yes, we have a repeater here in Jerusalem that had to be moved to a different
frequency because it was interfering with one on Crete, but that's
tropspheric ducting, over water, and our repeater was at 3500 feet asl.

It also depends upon finding a frequency that someone is listening on,
in a lot of places if you want road help, etc you are better off on CB.

Learn morse code if you want to, build and operate QRP if you want to,
take a radio backpacking if you want to, but IMHO you are not going to
really improve your chances if you are buried in a snow drift, or lost
while hiking out in the middle of the forest.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
notbob wrote:
That scared the crap outta me. Though I'm no ham and have never had a
license or even a CB, I know how CW, even QRP, could have probably
saved this guy. Yet, he was clueless of even the most basic radio
technology. Frightening. I swore then, it would never happen to me
and I'm set on learning code and learning QRP radio.

Far better would have been a satellite based emergency locator transmitter.
Originaly designed for airplanes, they are available for hikers, etc.

As for CW, even QRP saving him, it's possible but not likely. HF location
is too coarse to find him, unless he had a GPS unit and was able to transmit
an SOS with the correct coordinates, had a big enough antenna to be heard,
and so on.

I have a 10m HT and can "work the world" (or at least access 10m
repeaters in the US and EU), but only when the band is open. It is not
likely it will be until the middle of the current sunspot cycle, which
is 4-5 years away if we are lucky.

A VHF HT is not going to be of any use, unless he happens to get lost or
snowed in to a valley with a repeater on the mountain above.

Yes, we have a repeater here in Jerusalem that had to be moved to a different
frequency because it was interfering with one on Crete, but that's
tropspheric ducting, over water, and our repeater was at 3500 feet asl.

It also depends upon finding a frequency that someone is listening on,
in a lot of places if you want road help, etc you are better off on CB.

Learn morse code if you want to, build and operate QRP if you want to,
take a radio backpacking if you want to, but IMHO you are not going to
really improve your chances if you are buried in a snow drift, or lost
while hiking out in the middle of the forest.

Geoff.


A 2m HT may not help if you're really out in the sticks, but they have a
much longer range than a cell phone.

In the car with a mobile antenna I reliably reach a repeater that's 30
miles away with my VX-8r. Handheld with the standard antenna, I can
often reach it, but not reliably.

And of course there are many other repeaters that are closer than that
in CT.

The VX8r also has an optional GPS that can automatically send your
location through APRS.