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Old September 22nd 10, 11:45 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2009
Posts: 110
Default Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs: Proceed with Caution

Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.

[...]

•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

•Few CFLs last for their advertised lifetimes of five years or more.
Many people report replacing them after one year, making those return
on investment numbers a bit less rosy. Using them in ceiling fixtures,
on dimmers or timers, and for less than fifteen minutes per use reduce
their life.

•CFLs contain mercury and should be returned to a hazardous waste
center for disposal. Studies assume a 25% recycling rate, with the
rest going into landfills. (The Westinghouse website recommends
recycling only when disposing of "a large quantity" of fluorescent
tubes and doesn't mention how to dispose of their CFLs.) According to
a 2008 Yale study, burning coal to supply electricity to incandescent
bulbs emits more mercury per bulb than a CFL contains, but regions
that rely on cleaner fuels like natural gas experience greater mercury
contamination with the introduction of CFLs. Why would
environmentalists advocate to bring a toxic product into every home?

•Cleaning up a broken CFL doesn't require a haz-mat team, but you have
to take significant precautions to avoid mercury contamination of
living areas.

•Manufacturing CFLs is labor-intensive. No CFLs are made with
expensive U.S. labor; most are made in China, where hundreds of
factory workers in CFL plants have been hospitalized for mercury
poisoning. The last major light bulb factory in the U.S., a GE plant
in Winchester, VA, closed earlier this month.

•CFLs require six times as much energy to manufacture as incandescent
bulbs, not to mention -- if you're concerned about such things -- the
carbon footprint of shipping them from China.

•CFLs appear to cause migraines and epileptic seizures in a small
number of people. Other health risks are being studied.

•CFLs work poorly in cold temperatures -- as a wintertime front porch
light, for example. In cold climates, the heat of incandescent bulbs
is a useful -- if inefficient -- byproduct.

•CFLs degrade the quality of the electric current (so-called "dirty
electricity" with uneven sine waves) on a circuit into which they are
plugged, causing problems for other electronic devices and possible
health hazards to humans.

[...]

(complete story with references)
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...ight_bulb.html
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Old September 23rd 10, 01:31 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Nov 2009
Posts: 40
Default Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs: Proceed with Caution


"Chas. Chan" wrote in message
...
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.

[...]

•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

•Few CFLs last for their advertised lifetimes of five years or more.
Many people report replacing them after one year, making those return
on investment numbers a bit less rosy. Using them in ceiling fixtures,
on dimmers or timers, and for less than fifteen minutes per use reduce
their life.

•CFLs contain mercury and should be returned to a hazardous waste
center for disposal. Studies assume a 25% recycling rate, with the
rest going into landfills. (The Westinghouse website recommends
recycling only when disposing of "a large quantity" of fluorescent
tubes and doesn't mention how to dispose of their CFLs.) According to
a 2008 Yale study, burning coal to supply electricity to incandescent
bulbs emits more mercury per bulb than a CFL contains, but regions
that rely on cleaner fuels like natural gas experience greater mercury
contamination with the introduction of CFLs. Why would
environmentalists advocate to bring a toxic product into every home?

•Cleaning up a broken CFL doesn't require a haz-mat team, but you have
to take significant precautions to avoid mercury contamination of
living areas.

•Manufacturing CFLs is labor-intensive. No CFLs are made with
expensive U.S. labor; most are made in China, where hundreds of
factory workers in CFL plants have been hospitalized for mercury
poisoning. The last major light bulb factory in the U.S., a GE plant
in Winchester, VA, closed earlier this month.

•CFLs require six times as much energy to manufacture as incandescent
bulbs, not to mention -- if you're concerned about such things -- the
carbon footprint of shipping them from China.

•CFLs appear to cause migraines and epileptic seizures in a small
number of people. Other health risks are being studied.

•CFLs work poorly in cold temperatures -- as a wintertime front porch
light, for example. In cold climates, the heat of incandescent bulbs
is a useful -- if inefficient -- byproduct.

•CFLs degrade the quality of the electric current (so-called "dirty
electricity" with uneven sine waves) on a circuit into which they are
plugged, causing problems for other electronic devices and possible
health hazards to humans.

[...]

(complete story with references)
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...ight_bulb.html

..
..
I've had them for years.
Reliable
Low operating cost.
Cool.
Less air-conditioning need to get rid of the heat incandescent lamps
generate

LEDs will be even better!

Incandescent lamps, 130 year old technology......ancient history!


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Old September 23rd 10, 01:45 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 117
Default Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs: Proceed with Caution

On 9/22/2010 8:31 PM, Sid9 wrote:

"Chas. Chan" wrote in message
...
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.

[...]

•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.



I haven't tried the CFL outside but I had regular Fluorescent lighting
in a barn and when below 32F they didn't work worth a damn.

I think we're are going to transition to the more expensive LED lighting
bit going from $0.30 bulbs to $6.00 bulbs would be a hard sell so the
CFL is an intermediate to acclimate the consumers.

  #4   Report Post  
Old September 23rd 10, 04:20 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
Zak Zak is offline
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Default Compact Fluorescent & Incandescent Light Bulbs: Proceed withCaution - Dangerous New Fangled Technology Foisted On Us By Progressives

Beam Me Up Scotty
wrote:
On 9/22/2010 8:31 PM, Sid9 wrote:


I think we're are going to transition to the more expensive LED lighting
bit going from $0.30 bulbs to $6.00 bulbs would be a hard sell so the
CFL is an intermediate to acclimate the consumers.


Incandescent lamps are too futuristic for most of us, stick to whale
oil or kerosene lamps. Only greenies like incandescent lamps.
progressives like you. They'll never come down in price and be
cheap like the old kind we've been using for the past 500 years.

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Old October 4th 10, 09:41 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
RHF RHF is offline
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,652
Default Idiots-R-Us : LED Flashlight Prices going down and down and down . . .

On Sep 22, 5:45*pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-
wrote:
On 9/22/2010 8:31 PM, Sid9 wrote:





"Chas. Chan" wrote in message
....
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.


[...]


•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.


•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.


I haven't tried the CFL outside but I had regular Fluorescent lighting
in a barn and when below 32F they didn't work worth a damn.

- I think we're are going to transition to the more
- expensive LED lighting bit going from $0.30 bulbs
- to $6.00 bulbs would be a hard sell so the CFL
- is an intermediate to acclimate the consumers.

FWIW LED Light may be coming down in Price at
least for simple 3-LED Flashlights {Hand Torches}

On the way back up the Hill from Stockton, CA
stopped by the Dollar Tree Store in Oakdale, CA
and saw a Plastic Body 3-LED Flashlight* that
used 3 AAA Batteries {Not Included} for only
One Buck [$1]. -hint- 'Dollar Tree'

* Distributor : Greenbrier Intl. & Made-in-China

Got it home and tested it with the 3 AAA Batteries
installed and IT IS A BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT !

The 1"D x 3.5"L Barrel fits in the Palm of the Hand
with the 1.5"D x 1.5"L Light-Head still exposed.
unless you have Big Hands.

The over-all shape sort of looks like this one.
http://img.directindustry.com/images...ght-253681.jpg

The Front Lens of the 3-LED Light-Head
generally looks like this.
http://www.lightjunction.com/images/...c-M3XC4-R2.jpg

Just seems this year that a smaller Aluminum Body
9-LED Flashlight that used 3 AAA Batteries was
selling for $5~$10 with the cheap LABs included.
-but- This 3-LED Flashlight is Brighter then any of
the 9-LED Flashlights -imho-

HELLO Just because LEDs are so energy efficient :
Please Remember Not-to-Over-Do-It ;;-}} ~ RHF
http://blog.makezine.com/500-led-flashlight.jpg


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Old October 4th 10, 11:33 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,861
Default Idiots-R-Us : LED Flashlight Prices going down and down anddow...

Dollar Tree? Cool Hand Luke movie was filmed not far from Stockton.

There is a Dollar Tree store in that strip mall next to the Walmart
store, that is a mile and a half South of doggy's couch.That Walmart
store is where I do my food shopping.

I have to get out and about tomorrow morning anyway, Ergo my old house
has PEX plastic water pipes and the outside water faucet has done sprung
a pinhole water leak.To repair that water leak, I could call a plumber,
but I like to do things myself, so that means I am going buy a crimping
tool (about $100.00 more or less, but a plumber would charge me about
that much or more to come out here and fix that water leak for me
anyway) and some copper rings and a Go - No Go gauge.If I get any more
PEX water leaks, I can allways fix them myself.

While I am out and about (He says, Where is Elmo? She says, He is out
and about) tomorrow, I might stop off at that Dollar Tree store.
http://www.dollartree.com
cuhulin

  #7   Report Post  
Old October 5th 10, 12:47 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
RHF RHF is offline
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,652
Default Idiots-R-Us : Stop All New Car Production Now To Save The Planet -Look to Cuba For Examples of Eco-Friendly Hybrid Cars

On Oct 4, 4:09*pm, Mr.B1ack wrote:
RHF wrote:
On Sep 22, 5:45*pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-
wrote:
On 9/22/2010 8:31 PM, Sid9 wrote:


"Chas. Chan" wrote in message
...
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.


[...]


•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.


•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.


I haven't tried the CFL outside but I had regular Fluorescent lighting
in a barn and when below 32F they didn't work worth a damn.


- I think we're are going to transition to the more
- expensive LED lighting bit going from $0.30 bulbs
- to $6.00 bulbs would be a hard sell so the CFL
- is an intermediate to acclimate the consumers.


FWIW LED Light may be coming down in Price at
least for simple 3-LED Flashlights {Hand Torches}


On the way back up the Hill from Stockton, CA
stopped by the Dollar Tree Store in Oakdale, CA
and saw a Plastic Body 3-LED Flashlight* that
used 3 AAA Batteries {Not Included} for only
One Buck [$1]. -hint- 'Dollar Tree'


* Distributor : Greenbrier Intl. & Made-in-China


Got it home and tested it with the *3 AAA Batteries
installed and IT IS A BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT !


The 1"D x 3.5"L Barrel fits in the Palm of the Hand
with the 1.5"D x 1.5"L Light-Head still exposed.
unless you have Big Hands.


The over-all shape sort of looks like this one.
http://img.directindustry.com/images...shlight-253681...


The Front Lens of the 3-LED Light-Head
generally looks like this.
http://www.lightjunction.com/images/...c-M3XC4-R2.jpg


Just seems this year that a smaller Aluminum Body
9-LED Flashlight that used 3 AAA Batteries was
selling for $5~$10 with the cheap LABs included.
-but- This 3-LED Flashlight is Brighter then any of
the 9-LED Flashlights -imho-


HELLO Just because LEDs are so energy efficient :
Please Remember Not-to-Over-Do-It ;;-}} ~ RHF
http://blog.makezine.com/500-led-flashlight.jpg


* *LEDs are "more efficient" ... but only if you narrow
* *your definition considerably.

* *LEDs require precision engineering to make ... and
* *that costs money and energy and toxic crap that has
* *to be specially disposed.


Mr. Black,

The same can be said for all the new High MPG Cars
and Hybrid Cars : The Energy used to Build the One
'New' Car and All of it's Parts could Fuel a currently
existing Car for 3+ Years by some estimates.
-so- Keeping the Old Clunker has an overall Energy Use
Avoidance in the First Year that extends out 3+ Years
-and- Keeping the Old Clunker for 3+ Years can Reduce
the Carbon Footprint for a Decade.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3556/...207_z.jpg?zz=1
  #8   Report Post  
Old October 5th 10, 08:36 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jan 2009
Posts: 30
Default Idiots-R-Us : LED Flashlight Prices going down and down and down . . .


"Mr.B1ack" wrote in message
...
RHF wrote:

On Sep 22, 5:45 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty Then-Destroy-
wrote:
On 9/22/2010 8:31 PM, Sid9 wrote:





"Chas. Chan" wrote in message
...
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according
to
environmentalists.

[...]

.CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

.Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

I haven't tried the CFL outside but I had regular Fluorescent lighting
in a barn and when below 32F they didn't work worth a damn.

- I think we're are going to transition to the more
- expensive LED lighting bit going from $0.30 bulbs
- to $6.00 bulbs would be a hard sell so the CFL
- is an intermediate to acclimate the consumers.

FWIW LED Light may be coming down in Price at
least for simple 3-LED Flashlights {Hand Torches}

On the way back up the Hill from Stockton, CA
stopped by the Dollar Tree Store in Oakdale, CA
and saw a Plastic Body 3-LED Flashlight* that
used 3 AAA Batteries {Not Included} for only
One Buck [$1]. -hint- 'Dollar Tree'

* Distributor : Greenbrier Intl. & Made-in-China

Got it home and tested it with the 3 AAA Batteries
installed and IT IS A BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT !

The 1"D x 3.5"L Barrel fits in the Palm of the Hand
with the 1.5"D x 1.5"L Light-Head still exposed.
unless you have Big Hands.

The over-all shape sort of looks like this one.
http://img.directindustry.com/images...ght-253681.jpg

The Front Lens of the 3-LED Light-Head
generally looks like this.
http://www.lightjunction.com/images/...c-M3XC4-R2.jpg

Just seems this year that a smaller Aluminum Body
9-LED Flashlight that used 3 AAA Batteries was
selling for $5~$10 with the cheap LABs included.
-but- This 3-LED Flashlight is Brighter then any of
the 9-LED Flashlights -imho-

HELLO Just because LEDs are so energy efficient :
Please Remember Not-to-Over-Do-It ;;-}} ~ RHF
http://blog.makezine.com/500-led-flashlight.jpg



LEDs are "more efficient" ... but only if you narrow
your definition considerably.

LEDs require precision engineering to make ... and
that costs money and energy and toxic crap that has
to be specially disposed.

WHITE LEDs suck ... they're really a BLUE LED with
a pinch of white phosphor material stuck on. The
problem is that the phosphor has a limited - in
some cases VERY limited - lifespan. Then your LED
gets dim and/or takes on weird colors. Not really
an issue for flashlights ... but for home lighting
that's on for hours per day every day - problem.

So why not use red + green + blue LEDs to get
white ? First of all, each color uses a different
voltage, complicating design. The processes used
also vary, so making a sheet of alternating R/G/B
emitters is a super pain in the ass.

Finally, next time you're out and about, look at
the LED lights in the traffic signals. Oh wait,
you'll probably have trouble finding GREEN ones
because GREEN LEDs are unreliable for some
damned reason (I recall a Scientific American
article a year or so ago explaining why). So,
after a year, you'll have a Red/Nothing/Blue =
icky purpleish light instead of a nice white light.

The hope for LEDs lies in the "organic" variety
that can literally be "printed" onto a plastic
sheet using tech fairly close to an injet printer.
They won't be AS bright as the old kind, and they
won't last AS long ... but they'll be a lot CHEAPER
so you can afford to replace dimming elements.

Give these about another three to five years. By
then the cost/performance/efficiency should be in
the acceptable range.


Not meaning to hijack, but I am concerned that eventually, when I have no
choice but to use CFLs, my SW radio listening will suffer. It's my
understanding, that they contain a 'mini-starter' which emits RFI. I've
experienced problems from flourescent fixture starters that I've replaced
which will randomly blank out any AM transmissions. Flicking the light
switch off, then on corrects it temporarily.

Anyone comment on the CFLs?

HankG



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Old October 5th 10, 09:15 PM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 665
Default Idiots-R-Us : LED Flashlight Prices going down and down and down. . .

On 10/5/10 14:36 , HankG wrote:
wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Sep 22, 5:45 pm, Beam Me Up ScottyThen-Destroy-
wrote:
On 9/22/2010 8:31 PM, Sid9 wrote:





"Chas. wrote in message
...
Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according
to
environmentalists.

[...]

.CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.

.Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength, which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

I haven't tried the CFL outside but I had regular Fluorescent lighting
in a barn and when below 32F they didn't work worth a damn.

- I think we're are going to transition to the more
- expensive LED lighting bit going from $0.30 bulbs
- to $6.00 bulbs would be a hard sell so the CFL
- is an intermediate to acclimate the consumers.

FWIW LED Light may be coming down in Price at
least for simple 3-LED Flashlights {Hand Torches}

On the way back up the Hill from Stockton, CA
stopped by the Dollar Tree Store in Oakdale, CA
and saw a Plastic Body 3-LED Flashlight* that
used 3 AAA Batteries {Not Included} for only
One Buck [$1]. -hint- 'Dollar Tree'

* Distributor : Greenbrier Intl.& Made-in-China

Got it home and tested it with the 3 AAA Batteries
installed and IT IS A BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT !

The 1"D x 3.5"L Barrel fits in the Palm of the Hand
with the 1.5"D x 1.5"L Light-Head still exposed.
unless you have Big Hands.

The over-all shape sort of looks like this one.
http://img.directindustry.com/images...ght-253681.jpg

The Front Lens of the 3-LED Light-Head
generally looks like this.
http://www.lightjunction.com/images/...c-M3XC4-R2.jpg

Just seems this year that a smaller Aluminum Body
9-LED Flashlight that used 3 AAA Batteries was
selling for $5~$10 with the cheap LABs included.
-but- This 3-LED Flashlight is Brighter then any of
the 9-LED Flashlights -imho-

HELLO Just because LEDs are so energy efficient :
Please Remember Not-to-Over-Do-It ;;-}} ~ RHF
http://blog.makezine.com/500-led-flashlight.jpg



LEDs are "more efficient" ... but only if you narrow
your definition considerably.

LEDs require precision engineering to make ... and
that costs money and energy and toxic crap that has
to be specially disposed.

WHITE LEDs suck ... they're really a BLUE LED with
a pinch of white phosphor material stuck on. The
problem is that the phosphor has a limited - in
some cases VERY limited - lifespan. Then your LED
gets dim and/or takes on weird colors. Not really
an issue for flashlights ... but for home lighting
that's on for hours per day every day - problem.

So why not use red + green + blue LEDs to get
white ? First of all, each color uses a different
voltage, complicating design. The processes used
also vary, so making a sheet of alternating R/G/B
emitters is a super pain in the ass.

Finally, next time you're out and about, look at
the LED lights in the traffic signals. Oh wait,
you'll probably have trouble finding GREEN ones
because GREEN LEDs are unreliable for some
damned reason (I recall a Scientific American
article a year or so ago explaining why). So,
after a year, you'll have a Red/Nothing/Blue =
icky purpleish light instead of a nice white light.

The hope for LEDs lies in the "organic" variety
that can literally be "printed" onto a plastic
sheet using tech fairly close to an injet printer.
They won't be AS bright as the old kind, and they
won't last AS long ... but they'll be a lot CHEAPER
so you can afford to replace dimming elements.

Give these about another three to five years. By
then the cost/performance/efficiency should be in
the acceptable range.


Not meaning to hijack, but I am concerned that eventually, when I have no
choice but to use CFLs, my SW radio listening will suffer. It's my
understanding, that they contain a 'mini-starter' which emits RFI. I've
experienced problems from flourescent fixture starters that I've replaced
which will randomly blank out any AM transmissions. Flicking the light
switch off, then on corrects it temporarily.

Anyone comment on the CFLs?

HankG


CFL's and long tubes can be radically different animals. One is a
linear noise source, so the attenuation with distance is
proportional, whereas CFL's represent, more or less, a point source,
so attenuation is proportional to the square of the distance. In
other words, CFL noise falls off more quickly.

CFL technology can also be quiet different than long tubes. And,
with a quality bulb, inherently lower noise.

Early CFL's were quite noisy. Current production CFL's tend to be
much quieter, although cheaply made CFL's can still produce small
amounts of noise. At a distance of a couple of meters, the noise is
not an issue, but cumulatively, they can raise the overall noise
floor in your location if many are used.

The good news is that cheap CFL's don't last very long, and must
be replaced often until they're gone.

The better news is that with an external antenna of some quality,
worked against a good ground, the raised noise floor can be both
avoided, and/or overcome.





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Old September 23rd 10, 01:47 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave,talk.politics.misc,us.politics,alt.politics,alt.politics.economics
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
Default Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs: Proceed with Caution

Average citizens cannot be trusted with economic decisions that
require balancing immediate costs and long-term benefits, according to
environmentalists.

[...]

•CFL manufacturers claim that a 13-watt CFL emits the same amount of
light as a 60-watt incandescent, but it doesn't seem to work that way
in the real world. I've been in CFL-lit hotel rooms where I need a
flashlight to read my dog-eared copy of The Road to Serfdom.


60-watt incandescent don't put out a lit of light either.

The good thing about CF is you can use more or brighter bulbs for more
light and still use less electricity.

•Warm-up time: it takes up to 5 minutes for a CFL to reach full
strength,


Exactly what you want in the middle of the night.

which may be related to the point above (why CFLs seem less
bright). My friend has installed them in a hallway where illumination
is needed only for the thirty seconds it takes to navigate the
staircase. Not ideal when Grandma visits and can't see the skateboard
on the stairs.

•Few CFLs last for their advertised lifetimes of five years or more.


They are getting better.

Many people report replacing them after one year, making those return
on investment numbers a bit less rosy. Using them in ceiling fixtures,
on dimmers or timers, and for less than fifteen minutes per use reduce
their life.

•CFLs contain mercury and should be returned to a hazardous waste
center for disposal. Studies assume a 25% recycling rate, with the
rest going into landfills. (The Westinghouse website recommends
recycling only when disposing of "a large quantity" of fluorescent
tubes and doesn't mention how to dispose of their CFLs.) According to
a 2008 Yale study, burning coal to supply electricity to incandescent
bulbs emits more mercury per bulb than a CFL contains, but regions
that rely on cleaner fuels like natural gas experience greater mercury
contamination with the introduction of CFLs. Why would
environmentalists advocate to bring a toxic product into every home?

•Cleaning up a broken CFL doesn't require a haz-mat team, but you have
to take significant precautions to avoid mercury contamination of
living areas.

•Manufacturing CFLs is labor-intensive. No CFLs are made with
expensive U.S. labor; most are made in China, where hundreds of
factory workers in CFL plants have been hospitalized for mercury
poisoning. The last major light bulb factory in the U.S., a GE plant
in Winchester, VA, closed earlier this month.

•CFLs require six times as much energy to manufacture as incandescent
bulbs, not to mention -- if you're concerned about such things -- the
carbon footprint of shipping them from China.

•CFLs appear to cause migraines and epileptic seizures in a small
number of people. Other health risks are being studied.

•CFLs work poorly in cold temperatures -- as a wintertime front porch
light, for example. In cold climates, the heat of incandescent bulbs
is a useful -- if inefficient -- byproduct.

•CFLs degrade the quality of the electric current (so-called "dirty
electricity" with uneven sine waves) on a circuit into which they are
plugged, causing problems for other electronic devices and possible
health hazards to humans.

[...]

(complete story with references)http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...ent_light_bulb...




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