On 8/11/11 16:41 , bpnjensen wrote:
On Aug 11, 1:41 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 14:10 , bpnjensen wrote:





On Aug 11, 10:26 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 10:27 , bpnjensen wrote:

On Aug 10, 9:04 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/10/11 10:45 , bpnjensen wrote:

Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
inbreeding.

You're better than that, Bruce.

Sorry - I was just responding to Steve's silliness ;-)

Mike Myers says that silliness is a State of Grace.

One of the reasons so many people are so angry and tense is that
they've lost their silly.

That, and their meager retirements, their small fortunes, their tiny
security, their college tuitions, their livelihoods. Yeah, just try
smiling again! That'll fix everything!

Hardship is an experience. Silly is a state. They exist
independently of each other.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Speak for yourself. There is no reason I can see to believe that this
is true for the general population. When life crushes you, it crushes
you.

Bruce Jensen'

And yet, there are those so crushed who still smile.

State of mind is choice. State of grace is a gift that may or may
not be actualized. But it is at the choice.

You know, when I was laying in the street, in '86, bleeding to
such an extent that the end of my leg was foaming, and the blood
running into the storm sewer, I had about 3 minutes to live. I still
didn't lose my sense of humor, dark as it was. And it helped me stay
calm until the ambulance arrived.

Humor is an essential part of life. No more important than during
tough times. It's essential to survival.

And those whom Life has crushed, are no less able to adopt the
Silly state of grace, than anyone else in the population.

And, often, they do.

On Aug 11, 3:11*pm, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 8/11/11 16:41 , bpnjensen wrote:





On Aug 11, 1:41 pm, "D. Peter *wrote:
On 8/11/11 14:10 , bpnjensen wrote:

On Aug 11, 10:26 am, "D. Peter * *wrote:
On 8/11/11 10:27 , bpnjensen wrote:

On Aug 10, 9:04 am, "D. Peter * * *wrote:
On 8/10/11 10:45 , bpnjensen wrote:

Every Republican is a liar. *It's a congenital defect from massive
inbreeding.

* * * You're better than that, Bruce.

Sorry - I was just responding to Steve's silliness ;-)

* * *Mike Myers says that silliness is a State of Grace.

* * *One of the reasons so many people are so angry and tense is that
they've lost their silly.

That, and their meager retirements, their small fortunes, their tiny
security, their college tuitions, their livelihoods. *Yeah, just try
smiling again! *That'll fix everything!

* * * * *Hardship is an experience. Silly is a state. They exist
independently of each other.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Speak for yourself. *There is no reason I can see to believe that this
is true for the general population. *When life crushes you, it crushes
you.

Bruce Jensen'

* *And yet, there are those so crushed who still smile.

* *State of mind is choice. State of grace is a gift that may or may
not be actualized. But it is at the choice.

* *You know, when I was laying in the street, in '86, bleeding to
such an extent that the end of my leg was foaming, and the blood
running into the storm sewer, I had about 3 minutes to live. I still
didn't lose my sense of humor, dark as it was. And it helped me stay
calm until the ambulance arrived.

* *Humor is an essential part of life. No more important than during
tough times. It's essential to survival.

* *And those whom Life has crushed, are no less able to adopt the
Silly state of grace, than anyone else in the population.

* *And, often, they do.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And some don't. You cannot paint with a broad brush.

On 8/11/11 17:13 , bpnjensen wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:11 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 16:41 , bpnjensen wrote:





On Aug 11, 1:41 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 14:10 , bpnjensen wrote:

On Aug 11, 10:26 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 10:27 , bpnjensen wrote:

On Aug 10, 9:04 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/10/11 10:45 , bpnjensen wrote:

Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
inbreeding.

You're better than that, Bruce.

Sorry - I was just responding to Steve's silliness ;-)

Mike Myers says that silliness is a State of Grace.

One of the reasons so many people are so angry and tense is that
they've lost their silly.

That, and their meager retirements, their small fortunes, their tiny
security, their college tuitions, their livelihoods. Yeah, just try
smiling again! That'll fix everything!

Hardship is an experience. Silly is a state. They exist
independently of each other.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Speak for yourself. There is no reason I can see to believe that this
is true for the general population. When life crushes you, it crushes
you.

Bruce Jensen'

And yet, there are those so crushed who still smile.

State of mind is choice. State of grace is a gift that may or may
not be actualized. But it is at the choice.

You know, when I was laying in the street, in '86, bleeding to
such an extent that the end of my leg was foaming, and the blood
running into the storm sewer, I had about 3 minutes to live. I still
didn't lose my sense of humor, dark as it was. And it helped me stay
calm until the ambulance arrived.

Humor is an essential part of life. No more important than during
tough times. It's essential to survival.

And those whom Life has crushed, are no less able to adopt the
Silly state of grace, than anyone else in the population.

And, often, they do.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And some don't. You cannot paint with a broad brush.


Nor did I. That's why I said 'and often,' and, 'and there are
those who,' Recognizing some do, some don't.

The important point being that it can be done, and is.

On Aug 11, 3:05*pm, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 8/11/11 16:38 , bpnjensen wrote:

Nobody proposes to silence either messenger.

* *Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing
opposition is precisely what she proposed. And being an active
officer in the US Government, that raises some very serious 1st
Amendment issues. And yet, she has proposed some pretty significant
legislative motion to specifically silence those who don't sign on
to the agenda.

* *This is contrary to scientific discourse, debate and process.

OK, I give up. All I find are some comments about national security
and how the military needs to be prepared. Please provide a link.
Make sure there are contextual quotes please - not some Fox News
digestion.

Anyway, it is still irrelevant - and by the way, like I said, until
the oil companies got involved, none of those so-called "qualified
experts" came out of the woodwork and said it was a hoax. Many
scientists, both ostensibly liberal and conservative, were beginning
to reach consensus. It was the alarms at the oil companies that put
their shills on the payroll to say anything they could...and virtually
everything they have said has now been number crunched to death. We
don't need to hear the same tired crap over and over again endlessly
for a whole new audience of minions to get riled about. Honest
skeptics are still welcome in the scientific debate, and honest
opposing evidence is still taken very seriously.

After all this is done, I refuse to talk about anything else except
the honest science...because none of the rest of this gibberish
matters, and is a waste of time.

Bruce Jensen

On 8/11/11 17:20 , bpnjensen wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:05 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 16:38 , bpnjensen wrote:

Nobody proposes to silence either messenger.

Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing
opposition is precisely what she proposed. And being an active
officer in the US Government, that raises some very serious 1st
Amendment issues. And yet, she has proposed some pretty significant
legislative motion to specifically silence those who don't sign on
to the agenda.

This is contrary to scientific discourse, debate and process.

OK, I give up. All I find are some comments about national security
and how the military needs to be prepared. Please provide a link.
Make sure there are contextual quotes please - not some Fox News
digestion.

Anyway, it is still irrelevant - and by the way, like I said, until
the oil companies got involved, none of those so-called "qualified
experts" came out of the woodwork and said it was a hoax.


Well, that's a bit of a red herring. The oil companies have been
under fire since the days of John D. There's never been a time that
they've not been under fire. Simply gainsaying the oil companies are
to blame is scientifically disingenous.

In fact, the opposition experts came out before the oil companies
got involved in the debate.

I'm no fan of the oil companies. In fact, if you read the story
of the Ethyl Corporation, you'll see how bad a corporate citizen can
be. And Ethyl was co formed by DuPont (interesting irony there)
Standard Oil, and GM, because John D. wasn't willing to surrender
10% of the nations' gas tank to a non-petroleum product like
ethanol. (Ethanol was known as far back as the Model T to be an
effective antiknock additive) It's incomprehensible that such a
company could exist from the 30's to the present. But they do.

But not everyone who speaks out on the issue of climate change is
an oil company shill.

Several have been volcanic geoligists. Some have been
meteorologists. Others have been academics and researchers who've
faced censure, and withdrawal of funding for their positions in an
attempt to intimidate opposition. Those funded by Big Oil would face
no such fears.

And that, though you are correct, there is more at stake than
money, that's what it comes down to.

Underscoring, again, that this issue is more about the politics
than science.



Many
scientists, both ostensibly liberal and conservative, were beginning
to reach consensus. It was the alarms at the oil companies that put
their shills on the payroll to say anything they could...and virtually
everything they have said has now been number crunched to death. We
don't need to hear the same tired crap over and over again endlessly
for a whole new audience of minions to get riled about. Honest
skeptics are still welcome in the scientific debate, and honest
opposing evidence is still taken very seriously.

After all this is done, I refuse to talk about anything else except
the honest science...because none of the rest of this gibberish
matters, and is a waste of time.

Bruce Jensen

D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 8/11/11 17:20 , bpnjensen wrote:
On Aug 11, 3:05 pm, "D. Peter wrote:
On 8/11/11 16:38 , bpnjensen wrote:

Nobody proposes to silence either messenger.

Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing
opposition is precisely what she proposed. And being an active
officer in the US Government, that raises some very serious 1st
Amendment issues. And yet, she has proposed some pretty significant
legislative motion to specifically silence those who don't sign on
to the agenda.

This is contrary to scientific discourse, debate and process.

OK, I give up. All I find are some comments about national security
and how the military needs to be prepared. Please provide a link.
Make sure there are contextual quotes please - not some Fox News
digestion.

Anyway, it is still irrelevant - and by the way, like I said, until
the oil companies got involved, none of those so-called "qualified
experts" came out of the woodwork and said it was a hoax.


Well, that's a bit of a red herring. The oil companies have been under
fire since the days of John D. There's never been a time that they've
not been under fire. Simply gainsaying the oil companies are to blame is
scientifically disingenous.

In fact, the opposition experts came out before the oil companies got
involved in the debate.

I'm no fan of the oil companies. In fact, if you read the story of the
Ethyl Corporation, you'll see how bad a corporate citizen can be. And
Ethyl was co formed by DuPont (interesting irony there) Standard Oil,
and GM, because John D. wasn't willing to surrender 10% of the nations'
gas tank to a non-petroleum product like ethanol. (Ethanol was known as
far back as the Model T to be an effective antiknock additive) It's
incomprehensible that such a company could exist from the 30's to the
present. But they do.

But not everyone who speaks out on the issue of climate change is an
oil company shill.

Several have been volcanic geoligists. Some have been meteorologists.
Others have been academics and researchers who've faced censure, and
withdrawal of funding for their positions in an attempt to intimidate
opposition. Those funded by Big Oil would face no such fears.

And that, though you are correct, there is more at stake than money,
that's what it comes down to.

Underscoring, again, that this issue is more about the politics than
science.



It's been suggested that the fight over man made global climate change
isn't really about whether or not CO2 causes it. The fight, at least by
one side, is actually about continuing the present, increasing pollution
unabated.

Anywhere there is CO2, there are carcinogenic byproducts. The
industrialists seem to be trying to equate a cleaner environment with
raving lunatic communism. Controlling emissions cuts into the bottom
line. Win the CO2 fight and you win the pollution right.

CO2 is a very convenient way to make people forget about the toxic crap
that accompanies it. The toxic stuff kills people a lot faster. It's
best not to mention it.

Me? I believe all environmental degradation and pollution is due to
corrupt politicians.


mike




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On 08/11/2011 08:28 AM, bpnjensen wrote:
On Aug 10, 9:16 am, wrote:
Every Republican is a liar. It's a congenital defect from massive
inbreeding.

It's not really lying if you believe what you say is true. Republicans
live in a bubble of disinformation and voluntary ignorance. Not the same
as lying.

"Voluntary" ignorance is the key. If it's voluntary, it's a lie.

OK

On 08/11/2011 03:05 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:
On 8/11/11 16:38 , bpnjensen wrote:
Nobody proposes to silence either messenger.



Again, read Barbara Boxer's comment on the subject. Silencing opposition
is precisely what she proposed. And being an active officer in the US
Government, that raises some very serious 1st Amendment issues. And yet,
she has proposed some pretty significant legislative motion to
specifically silence those who don't sign on to the agenda.

This is contrary to scientific discourse, debate and process.




A lie doesn't "balance" a fact. There are not 2 sides to everything.

On 8/11/2011 4:38 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

The truth will be known in the fullness of time. Silencing either side,
shooting either messenger will only support the emergent politics. It
will not support the emergent truth.

Isn't "the truth" already known?

FACT (truth): Carbon dioxide IS a greenhouse gas.

FACT (truth): We ARE putting greater and greater amounts of carbon
dioxide in the atmosphere, especially with India and China coming on
line with millions more cars and an insatiable demand for more and more
electricity.

Could someone out there in Net Land please explain why all this extra
carbon dioxide (remember, a greenhouse gas) won't have an effect on the
climate?

NUTS!
cuhulin